Trade Talk (Part Ten): 2022 Offseason Edition

[life_saver]

Pretty much everything is indicating towards KAT as 4 from next season onwards. The Gobert trade rumors are just not what I expected though. I am not a fan of having $90M of your salary cap assigned to 2 bigs, with one of them being extremely limited offensively and the other player has never played as a 4 as a fulltime starter.

[old school 34]

About Gobert I am all in with Dane Moore: look at Turner and not to him...

And that's why I'd assume our talks with Utah are on again & off again. We maybe due prioritize the Indy deal as well (but Indy waiting to see if they can get in on Ayton & Utah hoping Chicago will concede & incl Patrick Williams in their Gobert offer)....that's kind of the game here right? Then on top of that KD, most likely put all that to a halt until that is resolved?

The question I have is if we deal with Indy...due we look @ Turner by himself or bring Brogden with him....I know, we're taking some salary there...but I'm warming to the possibility that Brogden might really be able to bounce back surrounded by better wings?

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[life_saver]

Turner makes so much more sense than Gobert if you wanna go with 2 bigs strategy and I am not even some huge fan of Turner. There is so much more risk with a Gobert trade than Turner trade. If it doesn't work out with Turner, then it's easy to move on as he is an expiring contract. If it doesn't workout with Gobert, then this franchise future cap flexibility will be crippled and we will probably back in a similar situation we were in with Wiggins. Gobert has 4 year remaining on his contract. Even if it works with Gobert, are you sure about a Gobert-KAT-Ant core being sufficient to be a title contender in this era ? Not to mention, $90M of salary cap assigned to 2 bigs who have their own flaws

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[KGdaBom]

About Gobert I am all in with Dane Moore: look at Turner and not to him...

And that's why I'd assume our talks with Utah are on again & off again. We maybe due prioritize the Indy deal as well (but Indy waiting to see if they can get in on Ayton & Utah hoping Chicago will concede & incl Patrick Williams in their Gobert offer)....that's kind of the game here right? Then on top of that KD, most likely put all that to a halt until that is resolved?

The question I have is if we deal with Indy...due we look @ Turner by himself or bring Brogden with him....I know, we're taking some salary there...but I'm warming to the possibility that Brogden might really be able to bounce back surrounded by better wings?

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Did Brogdon have a season he needs to bounce back from?

[MN7725]

Now that KAT signed, we can’t legally trade for a player who signed a designated veteran deal like Simmons.

For what it is worth, I thought that restriction was that you can't trade for two players that are on that extension; I think one signed and one traded for is fair game, if I am not mistaken.

I honestly could be wrong, though, the rule is confusing.

was listening to Windhorst's podcast

Tim Bontemps explained it as this

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kevin-durant-trade-rumors-how-the-designated-rookie-rule-will-limit-who-the-nets-can-deal-for/

That takes 12 notable players off of the table in a Durant trade for the time being:

Luka Doncic
Trae Young
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
De'Aaron Fox
Donovan Mitchell
Bam Adebayo
Jayson Tatum
Karl-Anthony Towns
Devin Booker
Jamal Murray
Andrew Wiggins
Joel Embiid

[TwolvesFanRome]

About Gobert I am all in with Dane Moore: look at Turner and not to him...

And that's why I'd assume our talks with Utah are on again & off again. We maybe due prioritize the Indy deal as well (but Indy waiting to see if they can get in on Ayton & Utah hoping Chicago will concede & incl Patrick Williams in their Gobert offer)....that's kind of the game here right? Then on top of that KD, most likely put all that to a halt until that is resolved?

The question I have is if we deal with Indy...due we look @ Turner by himself or bring Brogden with him....I know, we're taking some salary there...but I'm warming to the possibility that Brogden might really be able to bounce back surrounded by better wings?

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Are you saying something like Dlo+Beasley+something else for Brogdon/Turner?

My issue with Brogdon is his healty..

[winforlose]

So I am noticing a pattern with our picks and adds. We seem to be very defense focused this year. Kessler is a defensive big, Moore is a defensive small, Minott is a defensive Forward, Anderson is a defensive Forward. I know KA wasn’t the first choice, but we was on the radar and once shooting was off the board it was back to defense.

Gobert is the real deal defender who can keep us relevant even when the wheels fall off. I get that some of you think he has holes in his game. But ask yourself one question, can Chris Finch design a system to hide them? I ask because Dlo and KAT both have holes in their games and Finch found a way to hide those. I get not wanting to tie up to much money at the bigs. But, the league is moving into big money, and if the max contracts don’t scale then we can afford this. Ant and MCD are still in their rookie windows, Nowell could emerge as 6th man of the year material as a ceiling. I think this is the time for going after the biggest impact player we can.

Lastly, Gobert will still have resale value next year if things fail. I am not so sure Turner will have the same level of resale value. If the package is similar for these two guys then let’s spend it on the one who makes the greatest impact.

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

Nope. If kd was 25-27? Yes


Ant can’t even drink legally for another 30 days

I didn't realize he's still not 21????????
WOW.

I know. It’s awesome. I’m an old 36 yr old dad with 2 kids who lives vicariously through my youth via ants Instagram stories haha.

That nights gonna be awesome

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

Thought exercise - Brooklyn doesn't like Ayton apparently, and Miami doesn't work b/c Bam can't be traded with Simmons on the roster...revisit D'Lo for Simmons? We could even include Beasley if they want to get off of Joe Harris' extra year. Then include Prince to make up the salary difference, though I think the trade works either way. You could also do Vando if you were really high on Simmons.

Now Brooklyn can roll out: D'Lo/Beasley/O'Neale/Vando/Bam/Curry/Claxton/and of course David Duke.

That's pretty solid! right? RIGHT?

Literally cannot happen. KAT extension means Simmons cannot be traded here.

Bullet dodged.

Simmons is making life hell for Brooklyn LOL

Can’t get Booker for Durant (Phoenix doesn’t do that anyways)

Can’t get Bam A.

[old school 34]

About Gobert I am all in with Dane Moore: look at Turner and not to him...

And that's why I'd assume our talks with Utah are on again & off again. We maybe due prioritize the Indy deal as well (but Indy waiting to see if they can get in on Ayton & Utah hoping Chicago will concede & incl Patrick Williams in their Gobert offer)....that's kind of the game here right? Then on top of that KD, most likely put all that to a halt until that is resolved?

The question I have is if we deal with Indy...due we look @ Turner by himself or bring Brogden with him....I know, we're taking some salary there...but I'm warming to the possibility that Brogden might really be able to bounce back surrounded by better wings?

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Did Brogdon have a season he needs to bounce back from?

Fair point, it's probably more about health than performing when on the court. That said, I do think he's a guy that maybe increases his value towards his team the further he's down the pecking order if that makes sense (ie-- felt he was more valuable to Bucks than Pacers to winning games cause he was further down the food chain)....so coming here & playing with Ant helps him in that maybe his counting stats go down, but his efficiency goes up even further & his winning impact (kind of hard to quantify?) increases if that makes sense?

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[Baseline81]

So I am noticing a pattern with our picks and adds. We seem to be very defense focused this year. Kessler is a defensive big, Moore is a defensive small, Minott is a defensive Forward, Anderson is a defensive Forward. I know KA wasn’t the first choice, but we was on the radar and once shooting was off the board it was back to defense.

Gobert is the real deal defender who can keep us relevant even when the wheels fall off. I get that some of you think he has holes in his game. But ask yourself one question, can Chris Finch design a system to hide them? I ask because Dlo and KAT both have holes in their games and Finch found a way to hide those. I get not wanting to tie up to much money at the bigs. But, the league is moving into big money, and if the max contracts don’t scale then we can afford this. Ant and MCD are still in their rookie windows, Nowell could emerge as 6th man of the year material as a ceiling. I think this is the time for going after the biggest impact player we can.

Lastly, Gobert will still have resale value next year if things fail. I am not so sure Turner will have the same level of resale value. If the package is similar for these two guys then let’s spend it on the one who makes the greatest impact.

In order to acquire Gobert, the Wolves are going to have to include multiple first round picks (Jazz likely ask for McDaniels as well). Those picks, by rule, have to be spaced out. As we see with what's happening in Brooklyn, the NBA changes dramatically in three years.

And then factor in the age and salary of Gobert. Paying a 33-year old Gobert $47M is too much for me to stomach, especially knowing the Wolves will have two other large contracts in Edwards and Towns.

In regards to Turner, he's on the last year of his contract. As Dane Moore said, if the Wolves want to experiment, it makes sense to do so before going all in as would be the case with Gobert.

[KGdaBom]

And that's why I'd assume our talks with Utah are on again & off again. We maybe due prioritize the Indy deal as well (but Indy waiting to see if they can get in on Ayton & Utah hoping Chicago will concede & incl Patrick Williams in their Gobert offer)....that's kind of the game here right? Then on top of that KD, most likely put all that to a halt until that is resolved?

The question I have is if we deal with Indy...due we look @ Turner by himself or bring Brogden with him....I know, we're taking some salary there...but I'm warming to the possibility that Brogden might really be able to bounce back surrounded by better wings?

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

Did Brogdon have a season he needs to bounce back from?

Fair point, it's probably more about health than performing when on the court. That said, I do think he's a guy that maybe increases his value towards his team the further he's down the pecking order if that makes sense (ie-- felt he was more valuable to Bucks than Pacers to winning games cause he was further down the food chain)....so coming here & playing with Ant helps him in that maybe his counting stats go down, but his efficiency goes up even further & his winning impact (kind of hard to quantify?) increases if that makes sense?

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

I like Brogdon and would love to have him.

[TwolvesFanRome]

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[winforlose]

So I am noticing a pattern with our picks and adds. We seem to be very defense focused this year. Kessler is a defensive big, Moore is a defensive small, Minott is a defensive Forward, Anderson is a defensive Forward. I know KA wasn’t the first choice, but we was on the radar and once shooting was off the board it was back to defense.

Gobert is the real deal defender who can keep us relevant even when the wheels fall off. I get that some of you think he has holes in his game. But ask yourself one question, can Chris Finch design a system to hide them? I ask because Dlo and KAT both have holes in their games and Finch found a way to hide those. I get not wanting to tie up to much money at the bigs. But, the league is moving into big money, and if the max contracts don’t scale then we can afford this. Ant and MCD are still in their rookie windows, Nowell could emerge as 6th man of the year material as a ceiling. I think this is the time for going after the biggest impact player we can.

Lastly, Gobert will still have resale value next year if things fail. I am not so sure Turner will have the same level of resale value. If the package is similar for these two guys then let’s spend it on the one who makes the greatest impact.

In order to acquire Gobert, the Wolves are going to have to include multiple first round picks (Jazz likely ask for McDaniels as well). Those picks, by rule, have to be spaced out. As we see with what's happening in Brooklyn, the NBA changes dramatically in three years.

And then factor in the age and salary of Gobert. Paying a 33-year old Gobert $47M is too much for me to stomach, especially knowing the Wolves will have two other large contracts in Edwards and Towns.

In regards to Turner, he's on the last year of his contract. As Dane Moore said, if the Wolves want to experiment, it makes sense to do so before going all in as would be the case with Gobert.

What do you think Turner costs? What do you think Gobert costs? Renting Turner doesn’t help us long term. If there is significant overlap in the players and assets needed to get the two bigs then Turner leaving wasted those resources.

The cap expanding will make the super maxs less of an issue. Also, Gobert is likely to be good at the things he is good at now at 33. His game doesn’t rely on speed or athleticism. It is mostly about his defensive IQ and his technique.

Is Turner better than Gobert? If yes then tell me why. If no then why bother?

[SO_MONEY]

Read on Twitter

I think the are full of it and have no real insight or context.

[old school 34]

Sneaky rumor that I saw floated that if valid could be interesting....

Boston still interested in Beasley...proposed deal was Beasley to Bos in their Fournier TE for Nesmith & 23' 2nd (via Hou).

By itself maybe...just meh (I'm a Nesmith fan, so I like it maybe more than some)...but not sure if we need to just replace a 2 for another 2? Thinking more that something like that could be very much used say in a larger 3-team deal....where know said 3rd team doesn't even have to take back Beasley money....if deal was MN/Bos/Indy....& we're getting Turner/Brogden....I could see Indy preferring to take DLo & Nesmith/2nd & the TE vs adding Beasley to Hield & Duarte?

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[Baseline81]

What do you think Turner costs? What do you think Gobert costs? Renting Turner doesn’t help us long term. If there is significant overlap in the players and assets needed to get the two bigs then Turner leaving wasted those resources.

The cap expanding will make the super maxs less of an issue. Also, Gobert is likely to be good at the things he is good at now at 33. His game doesn’t rely on speed or athleticism. It is mostly about his defensive IQ and his technique.

Is Turner better than Gobert? If yes then tell me why. If no then why bother?

Turner, at most, would require a first round pick, though I bet the team could place protections on it. The problem is I don't see the Pacers wanting either Russell or Beasley, meaning the involvement of a third team.

Meanwhile, Utah would likely ask for what Murray or Holiday returned (minimum of two unprotected picks and a swaps). With Gobert under contract for another 4 years, they hold much of the leverage.

The beauty of Turner is the expiring contract. If the experiment works, I believe Minnesota would hold his bird rights (and still wouldn't command as high as what Gobert earns). If it doesn't, the Wolves only sacrificed a conditional pick. Now with Gobert, you then are forced to make a trade. Other teams know this, and the return wouldn't result in a zero net balance.

Defensively, Gobert is better than Turner. But offensively, Turner is not limited to the paint.

[old school 34]

So I am noticing a pattern with our picks and adds. We seem to be very defense focused this year. Kessler is a defensive big, Moore is a defensive small, Minott is a defensive Forward, Anderson is a defensive Forward. I know KA wasn’t the first choice, but we was on the radar and once shooting was off the board it was back to defense.

Gobert is the real deal defender who can keep us relevant even when the wheels fall off. I get that some of you think he has holes in his game. But ask yourself one question, can Chris Finch design a system to hide them? I ask because Dlo and KAT both have holes in their games and Finch found a way to hide those. I get not wanting to tie up to much money at the bigs. But, the league is moving into big money, and if the max contracts don’t scale then we can afford this. Ant and MCD are still in their rookie windows, Nowell could emerge as 6th man of the year material as a ceiling. I think this is the time for going after the biggest impact player we can.

Lastly, Gobert will still have resale value next year if things fail. I am not so sure Turner will have the same level of resale value. If the package is similar for these two guys then let’s spend it on the one who makes the greatest impact.

In order to acquire Gobert, the Wolves are going to have to include multiple first round picks (Jazz likely ask for McDaniels as well). Those picks, by rule, have to be spaced out. As we see with what's happening in Brooklyn, the NBA changes dramatically in three years.

And then factor in the age and salary of Gobert. Paying a 33-year old Gobert $47M is too much for me to stomach, especially knowing the Wolves will have two other large contracts in Edwards and Towns.

In regards to Turner, he's on the last year of his contract. As Dane Moore said, if the Wolves want to experiment, it makes sense to do so before going all in as would be the case with Gobert.

What do you think Turner costs? What do you think Gobert costs? Renting Turner doesn’t help us long term. If there is significant overlap in the players and assets needed to get the two bigs then Turner leaving wasted those resources.

The cap expanding will make the super maxs less of an issue. Also, Gobert is likely to be good at the things he is good at now at 33. His game doesn’t rely on speed or athleticism. It is mostly about his defensive IQ and his technique.

Is Turner better than Gobert? If yes then tell me why. If no then why bother?

For me a big consideration on that equation for both is....Does the accompanying PG (Conley or Brogden) get lumped into the deal for the appropriate big?

If you took Conley on...I'd think you at least reduce the cost for Gobert & you've already punted on the salary cap anyways & DLo's in the deal...so Conley not interested by himself, but could have value for us as a bandaid in that type of deal?

Whereas Brogden w/ Turner...now your punting at least a decent amount of that salary cap flexibility...but definitely changes the dynamics of the trade?

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[BlacJacMac]

Now that KAT signed, we can’t legally trade for a player who signed a designated veteran deal like Simmons.

That is not correct. Because we did not trade for KAT after he signed his deal.

There is a limit to the number of designated players a team can have on its roster at a time. A team can have up to two designated rookies (who received a longer rookie scale extension) and up to two designated veterans (who received higher than the 30% maximum salary) at any time. However, only one designated rookie may have been acquired from another team in a trade.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q24

That's why Brooklyn can not trade for BAM in a Durant deal - because they already traded for Simmons.

[winforlose]

In order to acquire Gobert, the Wolves are going to have to include multiple first round picks (Jazz likely ask for McDaniels as well). Those picks, by rule, have to be spaced out. As we see with what's happening in Brooklyn, the NBA changes dramatically in three years.

And then factor in the age and salary of Gobert. Paying a 33-year old Gobert $47M is too much for me to stomach, especially knowing the Wolves will have two other large contracts in Edwards and Towns.

In regards to Turner, he's on the last year of his contract. As Dane Moore said, if the Wolves want to experiment, it makes sense to do so before going all in as would be the case with Gobert.

What do you think Turner costs? What do you think Gobert costs? Renting Turner doesn’t help us long term. If there is significant overlap in the players and assets needed to get the two bigs then Turner leaving wasted those resources.

The cap expanding will make the super maxs less of an issue. Also, Gobert is likely to be good at the things he is good at now at 33. His game doesn’t rely on speed or athleticism. It is mostly about his defensive IQ and his technique.

Is Turner better than Gobert? If yes then tell me why. If no then why bother?

For me a big consideration on that equation for both is....Does the accompanying PG (Conley or Brogden) get lumped into the deal for the appropriate big?

If you took Conley on...I'd think you at least reduce the cost for Gobert & you've already punted on the salary cap anyways & DLo's in the deal...so Conley not interested by himself, but could have value for us as a bandaid in that type of deal?

Whereas Brogden w/ Turner...now your punting at least a decent amount of that salary cap flexibility...but definitely changes the dynamics of the trade?

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Gonna respond to both here if that is okay. I would need to work out the money on adding extra players besides Gobert back. I know we are hard capped because we used the MLE to sign KA. Assuming the money works, what is the goal of Utah at this point. Are they trying to tear it down and rebuild or separate Gobert from Mitchell and get valuable pieces in the process. It would be helpful if you could give a trade proposal so I could machine test it.

Turner isn’t that good on offense. He sit 33.3% from deep last season and 34.9% for his career from deep. His on ball skills are better, but his rebounding is significantly inferior. The best part about Turner is his rim protection. The best rim protector in the NBA is Rudy Gobert. All the big name teams either go crazy high money (GSW pays more in tax than we pay in payroll,) or they sell their picks and go all in. Turner is a half measure who might make us better for a year (and could leave at the end of it, or demand a sign and trade and we get back a fraction of his value,) whereas Gobert makes us a contender. Even without KAT for a few games Ant, Gobert, and whoever else we have left is formidable.