VOTE: Would you trade Wiggins + filler for Kyrie?

[wildvikeswolves]

I voted No. I wouldn't be upset if we did, but I would rather not.

[andyhop]

No for me.

Kyrie isn't anywhere near to being good enough for me to give up on Wiggins now

[Avihs7]

No for me.

Kyrie isn't anywhere near to being good enough for me to give up on Wiggins now

Exactly

[AirP.]

No for me.

Kyrie isn't anywhere near to being good enough for me to give up on Wiggins now

Huh, it's almost like you're saying a guy who had 38 and 40 points games in the most recent finals isn't all that good.

You guys have Jimmy Butler now at one of the wing slots, he is a WAY BETTER scorer(scored more with nearly 3 shots less a game), distributes the ball better(5.5 asts a game with Rondo starting most games at PG) and is a much better defender right now then Wiggins. He's actually what you hope Wiggins becomes, so if he's behind a guy like that who is just a better version of Wiggins how much do you think he's going to be utilized with Butler on the court?

[Slim Tubby]

I voted no. When you look at the poll results, it's easy to see that Wiggin's detractors are more diligent about posting their opinions than those of us that are fans of Andrew's game and future development.

[KGdaBom]

No for me.

Kyrie isn't anywhere near to being good enough for me to give up on Wiggins now

Huh, it's almost like you're saying a guy who had 38 and 40 points games in the most recent finals isn't all that good.

You guys have Jimmy Butler now at one of the wing slots, he is a WAY BETTER scorer(scored more with nearly 3 shots less a game), distributes the ball better(5.5 asts a game with Rondo starting most games at PG) and is a much better defender right now then Wiggins. He's actually what you hope Wiggins becomes, so if he's behind a guy like that who is just a better version of Wiggins how much do you think he's going to be utilized with Butler on the court?

What does Butler being better have to do with Wiggins and Kyrie. Wiggins is not behind Butler. He is the shooting guard and Butler is the SF. So what if Butler will be the 2nd option and Wiggins the third. We all know that Kyrie scores a lot of points. Wiggins scores a lot too. Tell us something new.

[AirP.]

No for me.

Kyrie isn't anywhere near to being good enough for me to give up on Wiggins now

Huh, it's almost like you're saying a guy who had 38 and 40 points games in the most recent finals isn't all that good.

You guys have Jimmy Butler now at one of the wing slots, he is a WAY BETTER scorer(scored more with nearly 3 shots less a game), distributes the ball better(5.5 asts a game with Rondo starting most games at PG) and is a much better defender right now then Wiggins. He's actually what you hope Wiggins becomes, so if he's behind a guy like that who is just a better version of Wiggins how much do you think he's going to be utilized with Butler on the court?

What does Butler being better have to do with Wiggins and Kyrie. Wiggins is not behind Butler. He is the shooting guard and Butler is the SF. So what if Butler will be the 2nd option and Wiggins the third. We all know that Kyrie scores a lot of points. Wiggins scores a lot too. Tell us something new.

Obviously you don't care about efficiency or duplication of a skillset that doesn't help spacing. Does it matter that it takes more possessions for Wiggins to score as much as Towns, Butler, Irving or even Teague, it should if you care about trying to win a championship. Does it matter that Kyrie stretches the floor with his 3pt shooting where as Wiggins doesn't, it should. Good lord, Towns averaged more assists then Wiggins did last year while playing less minutes.

But hey... he may have a huge jump at sometime because of "potential". Normally players with potential have huge jumps soon after getting consistent big minutes, Wiggins has had 35+ minutes all 3 seasons in the NBA and there's really been no jump other then 3pt shooting(which is close to solid), and shot attempts/scoring. His TS% has went down his 3rd year even though his 3pt% went up!

[Mattya]

Huh, it's almost like you're saying a guy who had 38 and 40 points games in the most recent finals isn't all that good.

You guys have Jimmy Butler now at one of the wing slots, he is a WAY BETTER scorer(scored more with nearly 3 shots less a game), distributes the ball better(5.5 asts a game with Rondo starting most games at PG) and is a much better defender right now then Wiggins. He's actually what you hope Wiggins becomes, so if he's behind a guy like that who is just a better version of Wiggins how much do you think he's going to be utilized with Butler on the court?

What does Butler being better have to do with Wiggins and Kyrie. Wiggins is not behind Butler. He is the shooting guard and Butler is the SF. So what if Butler will be the 2nd option and Wiggins the third. We all know that Kyrie scores a lot of points. Wiggins scores a lot too. Tell us something new.

Obviously you don't care about efficiency or duplication of a skillset that doesn't help spacing. Does it matter that it takes more possessions for Wiggins to score as much as Towns, Butler, Irving or even Teague, it should if you care about trying to win a championship. Does it matter that Kyrie stretches the floor with his 3pt shooting where as Wiggins doesn't, it should. Good lord, Towns averaged more assists then Wiggins did last year while playing less minutes.

But hey... he may have a huge jump at sometime because of "potential". Normally players with potential have huge jumps soon after getting consistent big minutes, Wiggins has had 35+ minutes all 3 seasons in the NBA and there's really been no jump other then 3pt shooting(which is close to solid), and shot attempts/scoring. His TS% has went down his 3rd year even though his 3pt% went up!

If you think a Wiggins to Teague efficiency comparison is a good argument then I really don't know what to say. They don't have the same role or usage on offense and are used completely differently.

Normally players aren't put into a situation like Wiggins either.

[Sugarless]

Straight up, based on talent alone and without any other considerations? Absolutely.

But I already think it's going to take time for this offense to work together (and it may never be that great, I'm not a fan of this group of starters), and it'd be even more difficult with Teague-Irving-Butler-KAT. At the very least, Teague would have to be dealt once Dec. 15 arrives. But it's not like the market is crazy for average PGs at 19M.

[Calinks]

What i want to know is, with Tows and Butler apparently pushing for an Irving trade, how the hell does Wiggins feel?

I think it's a mistake to assume Towns and Butler pushed for an Irving trade with any type of forethought of who would be involved in the trade.
It's entirely possible, if not likely, that they heard Irving wants to be here and immediately were like "let's go get him!".

Agreed. Towns and Wiggins are very tight (Wiggs recently called him his best friend in the NBA) I really doubt he went to Thibs and said "trade Drew for Kyrie, whatever it takes".

maybe but I really don't know who they thought they could deal to get it done...

[AirP.]

What does Butler being better have to do with Wiggins and Kyrie. Wiggins is not behind Butler. He is the shooting guard and Butler is the SF. So what if Butler will be the 2nd option and Wiggins the third. We all know that Kyrie scores a lot of points. Wiggins scores a lot too. Tell us something new.

Obviously you don't care about efficiency or duplication of a skillset that doesn't help spacing. Does it matter that it takes more possessions for Wiggins to score as much as Towns, Butler, Irving or even Teague, it should if you care about trying to win a championship. Does it matter that Kyrie stretches the floor with his 3pt shooting where as Wiggins doesn't, it should. Good lord, Towns averaged more assists then Wiggins did last year while playing less minutes.

But hey... he may have a huge jump at sometime because of "potential". Normally players with potential have huge jumps soon after getting consistent big minutes, Wiggins has had 35+ minutes all 3 seasons in the NBA and there's really been no jump other then 3pt shooting(which is close to solid), and shot attempts/scoring. His TS% has went down his 3rd year even though his 3pt% went up!

If you think a Wiggins to Teague efficiency comparison is a good argument then I really don't know what to say. They don't have the same role or usage on offense and are used completely differently.

Normally players aren't put into a situation like Wiggins either.

Teague was just a toss in since he is one of the starters. I get it, Teague is a more efficient scorer and distributor then Wiggins who just locked in on getting his shot instead of being a playmaker for the team. Hard to believe that high of usage and having that few of assists, well with that low of TS%, if he were say 57% or higher it would be more understandable to be that selfish.

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

Yes as long as the filler isn't Dieng

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

I voted no. When you look at the poll results, it's easy to see that Wiggin's detractors are more diligent about posting their opinions than those of us that are fans of Andrew's game and future development.

He's developed? Everything I've read is that he's actually regressed through 3 years

[kmgarnett21]

No. At first, the potential of a Towns/Butler/Irving trio sounded incredibly epic...and it probably would be.

But people have been whining nonstop about the roster imbalance. If you give up Wiggins for Irving, then your lineup centers around 2 PGs, 1 SF and a C. Talk about roster imbalance. If we hadn’t already signed Teague, then I’d be more inclined to pull the trigger.

But ALSO....Wiggins is younger and I still think he has potential to be a better all-around player than Kyrie, who is great at getting buckets, but that’s it. He’s not a playmaker or a defender. He’s a scorer. Kyrie is what he is. Wiggins still has room to improve, especially defensively.

I don’t think a KAT/Butler/Irving trio would even mesh that well. Both Irving and Butler need the ball to be great, and that takes away from the best player on the team. Plus, we'd be WAY worse defensively.

I’d rather add some depth at wing and call it a successful offseason.

[KGdaBom]

Huh, it's almost like you're saying a guy who had 38 and 40 points games in the most recent finals isn't all that good.

You guys have Jimmy Butler now at one of the wing slots, he is a WAY BETTER scorer(scored more with nearly 3 shots less a game), distributes the ball better(5.5 asts a game with Rondo starting most games at PG) and is a much better defender right now then Wiggins. He's actually what you hope Wiggins becomes, so if he's behind a guy like that who is just a better version of Wiggins how much do you think he's going to be utilized with Butler on the court?

What does Butler being better have to do with Wiggins and Kyrie. Wiggins is not behind Butler. He is the shooting guard and Butler is the SF. So what if Butler will be the 2nd option and Wiggins the third. We all know that Kyrie scores a lot of points. Wiggins scores a lot too. Tell us something new.

Obviously you don't care about efficiency or duplication of a skillset that doesn't help spacing. Does it matter that it takes more possessions for Wiggins to score as much as Towns, Butler, Irving or even Teague, it should if you care about trying to win a championship. Does it matter that Kyrie stretches the floor with his 3pt shooting where as Wiggins doesn't, it should. Good lord, Towns averaged more assists then Wiggins did last year while playing less minutes.

But hey... he may have a huge jump at sometime because of "potential". Normally players with potential have huge jumps soon after getting consistent big minutes, Wiggins has had 35+ minutes all 3 seasons in the NBA and there's really been no jump other then 3pt shooting(which is close to solid), and shot attempts/scoring. His TS% has went down his 3rd year even though his 3pt% went up!

I am the biggest fan of efficiency there is. However on a team some players will be more efficient than other players. As for Skillsets I wish every player on our team duplicated Butler's skillset. So I have no problem with Wiggins duplicating Butler's skills. Yes Kyrie scored statistically better than Wiggins last season. That is one stat. It doesn't take into account a hundred other variables like fit and probability for improvement. You keep harping on that one stat as if nothing else matters. If your reasoning is correct we should just have KAT take every shot for us as he is the most efficient scorer on the team. When Shaq and Kobe played for the Lakers Shaq was the more efficient scorer yet there was still a place for Kobe on the team. You need to consider we already have Teague who will create far more opportunities for his teammates than Kyrie. You need to consider that we are very thin at wing and yet you are proposing trading away one of our two best to get a slight upgrade at a position we are already strong at. This said I give up on any more debate with you over this subject.

[AirP.]

Straight up, based on talent alone and without any other considerations? Absolutely.

But I already think it's going to take time for this offense to work together (and it may never be that great, I'm not a fan of this group of starters), and it'd be even more difficult with Teague-Irving-Butler-KAT. At the very least, Teague would have to be dealt once Dec. 15 arrives. But it's not like the market is crazy for average PGs at 19M.

Well, you'd be running with basically a 2 PG backcourt(Kyrie being the SG slot), somewhat like Portland except Minnesota has much better players at the other positions.

On defense you now have options, Butler can guard the 2-4, Gibson can guard the 3-5 and doesn't hurt you too much switching out on guards. Minnesota absolutely needs a defensive wing on the bench the question is can they go all in with defense and no offense like T.Allen or do they need a mix of some offense and defense.

Also, if you add Irving, you could move T.Jones for a young defensive wing or package him with Aldrich clear space to sign someone(s) or to trade for someone.

[Worm Guts]

I think it's a mistake to assume Towns and Butler pushed for an Irving trade with any type of forethought of who would be involved in the trade.
It's entirely possible, if not likely, that they heard Irving wants to be here and immediately were like "let's go get him!".

Agreed. Towns and Wiggins are very tight (Wiggs recently called him his best friend in the NBA) I really doubt he went to Thibs and said "trade Drew for Kyrie, whatever it takes".

maybe but I really don't know who they thought they could deal to get it done...

I'm not sure why you would assume they thought about that part at all. My initial thought was Teague + before I remembered he can't be traded.
I wouldn't have even considered trading Wiggins an option until I saw it here.

[Slim Tubby]

I voted no. When you look at the poll results, it's easy to see that Wiggin's detractors are more diligent about posting their opinions than those of us that are fans of Andrew's game and future development.

He's developed? Everything I've read is that he's actually regressed through 3 years

I'm guessing that you're being sarcastic here. I tend to believe what my eyes show me more than advanced stats personally. There is no doubt in my mind that Wiggy has improved as a basketball player over the last three (3) years. People seem to forget that he came to us as a 19-year old kid living in a strange town and trying to acclimate to life as an NBA player. You have to find people you trust to manage your finances, find a place to live and mature quickly to handle the pressure from the media. Not to mention he was part of a very publicized trade before ever playing a game in the NBA and his reward? Going to a team with a legacy of losing and being counted on to turn it all around. That's a lot for a young person to take on. At that age, my only worry was figuring out where to come up with $4.00 for a keg glass. We will all know a lot more about Wiggy's ceiling after playing a season alongside a true professional in Jimmy.

[AirP.]

Yes as long as the filler isn't Dieng

The filler could be Dieng but at that point you're probably be getting other assets to go along with Irving which may involve a 3rd team.

[AirP.]

I'm guessing that you're being sarcastic here. I tend to believe what my eyes show me more than advanced stats personally.

He has shown the ability to hit from the outside. He's getting stronger but outside of getting more shot attempts it's not helped his team. Of Towns, LaVine, Rubio and Wiggins, the Wolves +/- per 100 possessions was the worst by far with Wiggins on the court. Since there's a good amount of data for each you'd think that would average out the quality they went against pretty evenly between those players.

If Wiggins was a big I'd get it with development, it's more important for bigs to be stronger for their positions, but at a wing/guard position you should be developing to your potential after 5000 minutes, let alone 8000-9000 he had near the end of the season.

Post all-star game Wiggins minutes stayed the same, his shot attempts and points went up but his TS%, rebounding, assists(dipped under 2) all dropped and for the team his +/- per 100 possessions went from -8 before the all-star break with Wiggins on the court to -14 per 100 possessions. To put that in perspective on before/after the all-star break... Towns pts went up, TS% went WAY UP, rebs went up, asts did go down and the big one... +/- per 100 possessions, before the all-star break was +7, after the break +15. So Wiggins made his team way worse after the break when on the court and Towns made the same team way better when on the court. You can see progression with Towns, I'm not seeing it with Wiggins.