Jimmy Butler

[Battletrigger]

I am one of the few that was in the Jimmy and Thibs side, I'd had traded Wiggins and Kat instead of Butler.

We have to be serious, is there anyone here believing that with softass KAT as number 1 are we going to make some noise? I don't think so.

You can blame Thibs all you want, but he was the only one to carry us to playoff in more than a decade, and we had Adelman too.

Choosing Kat instead of Butler is the same if you chose Marbury instead of KG.

[minimus]

I am one of the few that was in the Jimmy and Thibs side, I'd had traded Wiggins and Kat instead of Butler.

We have to be serious, is there anyone here believing that with softass KAT as number 1 are we going to make some noise? I don't think so.

You can blame Thibs all you want, but he was the only one to carry us to playoff in more than a decade, and we had Adelman too.

Choosing Kat instead of Butler is the same if you chose Marbury instead of KG.

I see a lot of bold statements in such a short post full of wisdom.

1) KAT is a softass, loser
2) Thibs was the Messiah, single-handedly carried us into playoff, was misunderstood and crucified by fans, media, softass young players and Judas Butler
3) KAT is new Marbury, Butler is new KG

Did I write everything down correctly?

[Jedzz]

Thibs realized how good he was and didn't want to trade him. That's not being a moron. By holding out he got better value than if he had just traded him for the crap offers that were originally made.

1) So you are saying that Richardson, Adebayo and a protected future first-round pick are better than RoCo, Saric and SRP? Because Thibs wanted to unload Dieng contract which is a direct result of his management?

ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski reported that Riley extended a final offer of Richardson, Adebayo and a protected future first-round pick. One can assume that Riley did not want to accommodate Minnesota’s desire to get rid of Dieng’s $48 guaranteed left on their books or to part ways with additional draft picks.

https://clutchpoints.com/revisiting-the-miami-heats-failed-trade-offer-for-jimmy-butler/

There can be a discussion on whether Bam, Richardson and a 1rp is better than Roco Saric and 2rp. But let's not begin to start claiming nearly every person on this board wasn't requiring that Dieng and his deal be traded out of here at the first possible opportunity. Every single trade idea bumbled about here at the time included Dieng going out. Sure having Bam would be nice right now. I don't remember if he was locked up long term at the time or not.

2) Thibs messed up Butler situation because he SAW that Bulter did not want to play in MIN right after playoff series against HOU long BEFORE offseason start and he DID NOT DO ANYTHING. He lost time when OTHER teams had cap space, picks in offseason. There was no communication between players and FO. Because simple conversations with Butler, KAT could clarify the situation without wasting time and opportunities.

I agree with this part. It should have been done right there and then when Butler let him know he wanted out. That offseason, that draft time, would have been the time. Butler did not make it known to the public, he just told Thibs. Thibs should have used that opportunity when Butler gave him a quiet offseason to get it done.

There was also the decently large Houston offer passed on. Probably a mistake. Overall I think the fact Thibs didn't stop the Wiggin's max extension is where he really failed. He had enough control as GM/HC that he should have put his foot down there. He rolled with the front office holdovers and owner there and it was a mistake. Butler not getting moved early that offseason was mistake two. But as far as Butler goes Thibs probably knew as soon as moving Butler goes, his job was done here. He had very little support or people on his side here. But they really couldn't touch him as long as Butler was still here. I think that was part of his delaying the inevitable on this.

[Foye]

The moment that everything went south is when Ricky Rubio was traded to acquire Jeff Teague.
Rubio/Butler is an incredible backcourt on the defensive side of the ball game.

On offense Butler is able to create for himself and others
Rubio is able to create for everyone on the floor.
Just think about it: one of those two gentlemen would've always been on the floor during the entire 48 minutes of game action.
Rubio would even make Wiggins lazy ass look good often times.

All this team was missing is a rim protector and some snipers from 3.

Need any more proof? Look at Dragic/Butler MIA team.

I am firmly convinced this whole Butler saga doesn't happen if we had Rubio instead of Teague.

And now? Good luck with pothead Russell and company.

[Jedzz]

I am one of the few that was in the Jimmy and Thibs side, I'd had traded Wiggins and Kat instead of Butler.

We have to be serious, is there anyone here believing that with softass KAT as number 1 are we going to make some noise? I don't think so.

You can blame Thibs all you want, but he was the only one to carry us to playoff in more than a decade, and we had Adelman too.

Choosing Kat instead of Butler is the same if you chose Marbury instead of KG.

Agree with some of that, but not all. It didn't have to be choosing Kat or Butler. Not directly. It had to be choosing Butler over Wiggins. Choosing to move on from Wiggins first, and then dealing with Kat's thoughts about that. Being the GM/HC and mitigating that issue with Kat and the fanbase and the front office and making that attempt to make Kat understand how he and Butler could get more done. Either Kat falls in line finally with the idea, or he doesn't. Who cares which. Because if Kat chose to not fall in line then so what, he gets traded for a haul and today MN's roster would be loaded again around Butler. Just like Rosas made the decision to simply move Wiggins. Kat is still here. This was the failure during Thibs reign, not to make this full stop on Wiggins and mitigate Butler Towns into a team or not and move on. Like in most failures, communication is right up there at the top for reasons along with petty egos.

Thibs could have even also made a run at Dlo or Booker to keep Towns happy when moving Wiggins as Rosas did. Maybe he did and we just didn't hear about the attempts. But bringing in one of those guys also wasn't required. Keeping Towns happy to resign surely was on the list to-do. But he had young value off the charts regardless if he had to be traded. Could have fleeced a bunch of teams that would have jumped at the chance to have Towns. He could be a Laker today possibly with Dlo and everything could be different today for both teams and every other thing else you can think of might be different. It's always easy to look back and figure out a better way. The key in the moment is having a GM that is willing to see and do all the options at the time and who's capable of making others believe in the option. People thought Thibs was brash but he wasn't nearly enough for what was really needed.

[Jedzz]

The moment that everything went south is when Ricky Rubio was traded to acquire Jeff Teague.
Rubio/Butler is an incredible backcourt on the defensive side of the ball game.

I wanted that as well. Rubio should have been kept. There were some mitigating factors in play however.

a. Rubio hadn't yet felt compelled to start shooting threes more yet. That came after the trade threats and actual trade. He very likely could have kept avoiding those without that ultimate push and this might still be an issue today.
b. The team was missing a FRP that Saunders had traded away. The team might have been looking for options to get a FRP and get back into that draft and his name came up as someone with enough value to make that happen.
c. Butler had previously made derogatory statements about what type of player Rubio was. I don't know how real that dislike was or if it mattered.

[Battletrigger]

I am one of the few that was in the Jimmy and Thibs side, I'd had traded Wiggins and Kat instead of Butler.

We have to be serious, is there anyone here believing that with softass KAT as number 1 are we going to make some noise? I don't think so.

You can blame Thibs all you want, but he was the only one to carry us to playoff in more than a decade, and we had Adelman too.

Choosing Kat instead of Butler is the same if you chose Marbury instead of KG.

I see a lot of bold statements in such a short post full of wisdom.

1) KAT is a softass, loser
2) Thibs was the Messiah, single-handedly carried us into playoff, was misunderstood and crucified by fans, media, softass young players and Judas Butler
3) KAT is new Marbury, Butler is new KG

Did I write everything down correctly?

No, you are just showing your prejudice. English is my third language and I let it get rusty but I write what I want to write.

Maybe in Russia softass is the same that loser, but not in Spain(curious, naming someone loser not lead to blood? ). Kat it's a great player but not the one that put a team in his shoulders, improves the team outcome and carry it to PO.

The Messiah here for many people was Flip for the only fact that he died, Thibs is the devil as you show very often in your post. But what is amazing to me it's that he only made bad deccions after bad deccions and, even so, he finished in Playoff (although we almost lost them due to a Butler injury).

And for the third point, it was only a simile, not a direct comparison. I think it's easy to see if you take apart your hate and prejudice.

[minimus]

I am one of the few that was in the Jimmy and Thibs side, I'd had traded Wiggins and Kat instead of Butler.

We have to be serious, is there anyone here believing that with softass KAT as number 1 are we going to make some noise? I don't think so.

You can blame Thibs all you want, but he was the only one to carry us to playoff in more than a decade, and we had Adelman too.

Choosing Kat instead of Butler is the same if you chose Marbury instead of KG.

I see a lot of bold statements in such a short post full of wisdom.

1) KAT is a softass, loser
2) Thibs was the Messiah, single-handedly carried us into playoff, was misunderstood and crucified by fans, media, softass young players and Judas Butler
3) KAT is new Marbury, Butler is new KG

Did I write everything down correctly?

Thibs is the devil as you show very often in your post. But what is amazing to me it's that he only made bad deccions after bad deccions and, even so, he finished in Playoff (although we almost lost them due to a Butler injury).

1) In our mentality, a grown man is careful when he speaks. That is the point. You call KAT a soft ass. That is a bold statement. I am sure you have facts to back up your words.

2) Yeah, that was an amazing series in the playoffs against HOU. It costs almost all the resources that Flip and others collected for like five seasons before Thibs arrived. And it could have cost us multiple losing seasons if not Rosas. That is what you amazing I guess.

P.S. English is my fourth language. It is not a problem, guys on this board are kindly accepting even an awful writer like me.

[KGdaBom]

1) So you are saying that Richardson, Adebayo and a protected future first-round pick are better than RoCo, Saric and SRP? Because Thibs wanted to unload Dieng contract which is a direct result of his management?



https://clutchpoints.com/revisiting-the-miami-heats-failed-trade-offer-for-jimmy-butler/

2) Thibs messed up Butler situation because he SAW that Bulter did not want to play in MIN right after playoff series against HOU long BEFORE offseason start and he DID NOT DO ANYTHING. He lost time when OTHER teams had cap space, picks in offseason. There was no communication between players and FO. Because simple conversations with Butler, KAT could clarify the situation without wasting time and opportunities.



https://theathletic.com/546671/2018/09/25/tom-thibodeau-jimmy-butler-timberwolves-trade-request-media-day-bluff/

I don't believe that offer was ever on the table.

That is your problem. One year later MIA traded Josh Richardson, future first-round pick to get Butler. They paid that price to get RFA!

Even if it was RoCo and Saric to me was a better offer.

No comments. As I said before, after such ridiculous statements I will just put this topic in the list of topics I should not discuss with you.

RoCo was easily a better prospect than Richardson. Saric was off to an amazing start to his career. That appeared to be the better offer. Of course you were omniscient at that time and saw the future where Bam became the huge star he is now. Good for you. There was nothing ridiculous about my statements. Nothing in the slightest.

[KGdaBom]

The moment that everything went south is when Ricky Rubio was traded to acquire Jeff Teague.
Rubio/Butler is an incredible backcourt on the defensive side of the ball game.

On offense Butler is able to create for himself and others
Rubio is able to create for everyone on the floor.
Just think about it: one of those two gentlemen would've always been on the floor during the entire 48 minutes of game action.
Rubio would even make Wiggins lazy ass look good often times.

All this team was missing is a rim protector and some snipers from 3.

Need any more proof? Look at Dragic/Butler MIA team.

I am firmly convinced this whole Butler saga doesn't happen if we had Rubio instead of Teague.

And now? Good luck with pothead Russell and company.

Trading Rubio to acquire Teague was the biggest mistake Thibs made.

[KGdaBom]

I am one of the few that was in the Jimmy and Thibs side, I'd had traded Wiggins and Kat instead of Butler.

We have to be serious, is there anyone here believing that with softass KAT as number 1 are we going to make some noise? I don't think so.

You can blame Thibs all you want, but he was the only one to carry us to playoff in more than a decade, and we had Adelman too.

Choosing Kat instead of Butler is the same if you chose Marbury instead of KG.

I see a lot of bold statements in such a short post full of wisdom.

1) KAT is a softass, loser
2) Thibs was the Messiah, single-handedly carried us into playoff, was misunderstood and crucified by fans, media, softass young players and Judas Butler
3) KAT is new Marbury, Butler is new KG

Did I write everything down correctly?

No, you are just showing your prejudice. English is my third language and I let it get rusty but I write what I want to write.

Maybe in Russia softass is the same that loser, but not in Spain(curious, naming someone loser not lead to blood? ). Kat it's a great player but not the one that put a team in his shoulders, improves the team outcome and carry it to PO.

The Messiah here for many people was Flip for the only fact that he died, Thibs is the devil as you show very often in your post. But what is amazing to me it's that he only made bad deccions after bad deccions and, even so, he finished in Playoff (although we almost lost them due to a Butler injury).

And for the third point, it was only a simile, not a direct comparison. I think it's easy to see if you take apart your hate and prejudice.

Once Minimus has made up his mind that somebody is the Devil Thibs or somebody is not a good player Westbrook don't bother with showing him he might be wrong. Whatever you have to say is ridiculous and he will add you and that argument to his list of things to not discuss with you.

[minimus]

Once Minimus has made up his mind that somebody is the Devil Thibs or somebody is not a good player Westbrook don't bother with showing him he might be wrong. Whatever you have to say is ridiculous and he will add you and that argument to his list of things to not discuss with you.

Oh, yeah! You nailed it! Just imagine how unstoppable I could have been if I could read and write without Google Translate. Heck, I could read and understand every Jedzz post.

[AirP.]

The moment that everything went south is when Ricky Rubio was traded to acquire Jeff Teague.
Rubio/Butler is an incredible backcourt on the defensive side of the ball game.

On offense Butler is able to create for himself and others
Rubio is able to create for everyone on the floor.
Just think about it: one of those two gentlemen would've always been on the floor during the entire 48 minutes of game action.
Rubio would even make Wiggins lazy ass look good often times.

All this team was missing is a rim protector and some snipers from 3.

Need any more proof? Look at Dragic/Butler MIA team.

I am firmly convinced this whole Butler saga doesn't happen if we had Rubio instead of Teague.

And now? Good luck with pothead Russell and company.

Dragic is very good offensive PG who can shoot, Rubio was just a playmaker with no outside shot. If Rubio was kept in Minnesota the team would have had a hard time scoring at the end of games when you wanted the ball in Butler's hands and Rubio being off ball and at that point was not a threat from the outside. It took him being traded for him to wake up and understand he had to get better shooting the ball and did(and good for him) which made him a better player. Also, adding Butler and his playmaking ability lessened the need for Rubio's greatest strength (passing, creating for others) where as Dragic can make catch and shoot shots off Butler's passes.

As for defensively, yes Butler and Rubio would have been great.

[Foye]

The moment that everything went south is when Ricky Rubio was traded to acquire Jeff Teague.
Rubio/Butler is an incredible backcourt on the defensive side of the ball game.

On offense Butler is able to create for himself and others
Rubio is able to create for everyone on the floor.
Just think about it: one of those two gentlemen would've always been on the floor during the entire 48 minutes of game action.
Rubio would even make Wiggins lazy ass look good often times.

All this team was missing is a rim protector and some snipers from 3.

Need any more proof? Look at Dragic/Butler MIA team.

I am firmly convinced this whole Butler saga doesn't happen if we had Rubio instead of Teague.

And now? Good luck with pothead Russell and company.

Dragic is very good offensive PG who can shoot, Rubio was just a playmaker with no outside shot. If Rubio was kept in Minnesota the team would have had a hard time scoring at the end of games when you wanted the ball in Butler's hands and Rubio being off ball and at that point was not a threat from the outside. It took him being traded for him to wake up and understand he had to get better shooting the ball and did(and good for him) which made him a better player. Also, adding Butler and his playmaking ability lessened the need for Rubio's greatest strength (passing, creating for others) where as Dragic can make catch and shoot shots off Butler's passes.

As for defensively, yes Butler and Rubio would have been great.

Thats why I said all the team was missing is snipers from 3. Wouldn't have been necessary to play both Rubio and Butler at the same time in end of game situations.

[minimus]

Also, adding Butler and his playmaking ability lessened the need for Rubio's greatest strength (passing, creating for others) where as Dragic can make catch and shoot shots off Butler's passes.

As for defensively, yes Butler and Rubio would have been great.

I disagree. Rubio is smart enough, unselfish to co-exists with Butler. I also dont think that Butler is a really good passer. At 14mil per year Rubio contract, you just need to balance your Rubio+Butler offense with multiple shooters.

[Jedzz]

Nobody should be concerned about this recent Miami run making MN look dumber than normal and some of us complaining again. Miami will falter at some point and at that moment all the Butler bashers can let us have it all over again. It will probably come down to a final shot he misses and it will fuel and empower the hate all over again.

[minimus]

Once again. Jimmy is the same player, he was in CHI, in MIN, in PHI. I dont think he is able to build a new culture. I dont think that a task for a player. Look at LAC, what Kawhi was able to do with toxic Clippers locker room? What is the difference?

The difference is organisation, base layer, you build your team on. Scouting, player development, coaching, decision making, communication between FO, coaching staff and players, PR. All three teams that Butler left did not have that base layer. CHI with Hoiberg as HC, and Forman as GM, MIN with Thibs, PHI with Brown/Brand. All three teams are definition of poorly managed, poorly coached teams, with serious chemistry problems. Players simple did not fit well.

CHI: two ball dominant star without 3pt shot Wade+Butler+Rondo, no shooters
MIN: poorly constructed roster, no shooters
PHI: poorly constructed roster, ball dominant non shooting PG Simmons, one declining shooter Redick

There is no way Butler could change that. Some fans just dont realize it. He did not change culture in MIA, he did not build foundation for MIA success in this season. Riley and Spoelstra did.

[Worm Guts]

Once again. Jimmy is the same player, he was in CHI, in MIN, in PHI. I dont think he is able to build a new culture. I dont think that a task for a player. Look at LAC, what Kawhi was able to do with toxic Clippers locker room? What is the difference?

The difference is organisation, base layer, you build your team on. Scouting, player development, coaching, decision making, communication between FO, coaching staff and players, PR. All three teams that Butler left did not have that base layer. CHI with Hoiberg as HC, and Forman as GM, MIN with Thibs, PHI with Brown/Brand. All three teams are definition of poorly managed, poorly coached teams, with serious chemistry problems. Players simple did not fit well.

CHI: two ball dominant star without 3pt shot Wade+Butler+Rondo, no shooters
MIN: poorly constructed roster, no shooters
PHI: poorly constructed roster, ball dominant non shooting PG Simmons, one declining shooter Redick

There is no way Butler could change that. Some fans just dont realize it. He did not change culture in MIA, he did not build foundation for MIA success in this season. Riley and Spoelstra did.

No reason to criticize what he had in Philadelphia, they lost on a buzzer beater in game 7 to the eventual NBA champs. No doubt that talent was issue in Chicago and Minnesota though.

[minimus]

Once again. Jimmy is the same player, he was in CHI, in MIN, in PHI. I dont think he is able to build a new culture. I dont think that a task for a player. Look at LAC, what Kawhi was able to do with toxic Clippers locker room? What is the difference?

The difference is organisation, base layer, you build your team on. Scouting, player development, coaching, decision making, communication between FO, coaching staff and players, PR. All three teams that Butler left did not have that base layer. CHI with Hoiberg as HC, and Forman as GM, MIN with Thibs, PHI with Brown/Brand. All three teams are definition of poorly managed, poorly coached teams, with serious chemistry problems. Players simple did not fit well.

CHI: two ball dominant star without 3pt shot Wade+Butler+Rondo, no shooters
MIN: poorly constructed roster, no shooters
PHI: poorly constructed roster, ball dominant non shooting PG Simmons, one declining shooter Redick

There is no way Butler could change that. Some fans just dont realize it. He did not change culture in MIA, he did not build foundation for MIA success in this season. Riley and Spoelstra did.

No reason to criticize what he had in Philadelphia, they lost on a buzzer beater in game 7 to the eventual NBA champs. No doubt that talent was issue in Chicago and Minnesota though.

You missed the point. The answer to your question, what happened in PHI after Butler left? Total mess. Why? Because in PHI there is no base layer. They are poorly manged and poorly coached team. Just listen JJ Redick podcast with Butler. Does it sounds familiar to you when he says that management was a completely mess? Sounds like MIN with Thibs.


JJ: Was last year difficult for you? Not just getting traded, but the whole **** in the summer, preseason?

Butler: “Hell yeah it was difficult. It was so different and on any given day, me as a person, as a player I didn’t know who the f*ck was in charge, that was my biggest thing. I didn’t know what the f*ck to expect whenever I would go into the the gym, whenever I would go into the plane, whenever I go into the game, I was as lost as the next mother f*cker.

JJ: Meaning there was a lot of voices.

Butler: Yeah. There was so much going on on every given day, I was like yup, guess I’m just here to work I didn’t know who to talk to.

[KGdaBom]

Once Minimus has made up his mind that somebody is the Devil Thibs or somebody is not a good player Westbrook don't bother with showing him he might be wrong. Whatever you have to say is ridiculous and he will add you and that argument to his list of things to not discuss with you.

Oh, yeah! You nailed it! Just imagine how unstoppable I could have been if I could read and write without Google Translate. Heck, I could read and understand every Jedzz post.

This one made me smile. I'm glad to see you still have a sense of humor.