Post Games Thoughts. Cavs. Number 2.

[Jedzz]

This team needs any game plan but catch the ball, chuck and shoot.

Undersized, with no great scheme, and without many players that can finish at the rim strong, they have to shoot.

What can they do better? You know how occasionally a single player gets really hot shooting and lucky all in the same day and teams will notice and feed them silly and wala 50 pt game happens? That can work the same for a number of players in a game if you can identify the warm ones quickly. Everyone feeds them silly and those players only. What else does that do? It gets them creating better ball movement in order to get it to the warm shooters. Need to find a coach that can identify these players quickly and give him the job to keep telling players who gets the shots. A few players are always warmer than the others and they should be the chuckers if anyone.

[_AIJ_]

Edwards stopped touching the ball in the 4th. It was like Rubio mentioned before when he said guys were playing hero ball - by guys, he means Russell and Beasley. Saunders doesn't have the balls or knowledge to clamp them down. Why did we look so much better when DLo wasn't playing? Because the ball was actually moving.

I agree. DLo singlehandedly lost this game with his ballhogging and non existent D

[Sugarless]

I am positivly surprised by Nowell. He's active, seems to have good touch around the rim and a solid first step. But the best thing about him, is that he makes quick decisions, which is an invaluable skill. I am glad he's getting minutes.

Yep, he always quickly decides that as soon as he gets the ball he's going to shoot it or drive against a wall of players.

I don't like him, at all. Dude won't look at any of his teammates despite having shot 40% from the floor and 19% from 3 since his debut last season.

[Dewey]

Wolves 11 FTs
Collin Sexton 11 FTs
Cavs 31 FTs

Every game is like this. I know playing small is a reason, but we get zero respect.


I still feel like our players have no idea what to do on offense. Not enough movement, too dependant on shooting contested 3s and attacking the rim being whacked in the process while not getting any foul calls.

1. For the cluster of guards we have, we still lack ability to stop the drive.
2. For the cluster of guards we have, we do not attack the basket with any consistency and actually work to avoid contact.
3. We are a very "reactive" team right now without KAT ... I struggle to see us ever scheming to be the aggressors.

Positive trend: Ant/McD are raw, but are NBA caliber IMO. JV/McD appear they will be compatible with KAT. I like that Rubio and Nowell seem to have some chemistry off the bench.

Knowns: Reid is a 10-15 minute role player behind KAT. Similar for Okogie, Layman and Hernangomez ... they just are not productive players outside their smaller roles. McL is still a wild card ... kinda that elephant sitting quietly in the room

Negative trend: We are like dogs catching cars ... when we generate good spacing, we don't know what to do with it. Too often we stand, settle for long 3's, missing cuts to open space, and unwilling to go 1-on-1 (and 1, dish, kick out, etc). All of these issues are reasons we are not getting to the line and putting points on the board (with the clock stopped, players resting, coaches make adjustments). KAT coming back will not stop these issues ... technically, we have too many stretches of playing losing basketball without being coached.

[Jedzz]

I am positivly surprised by Nowell. He's active, seems to have good touch around the rim and a solid first step. But the best thing about him, is that he makes quick decisions, which is an invaluable skill. I am glad he's getting minutes.

Yep, he always quickly decides that as soon as he gets the ball he's going to shoot it or drive against a wall of players.

I don't like him, at all. Dude won't look at any of his teammates despite having shot 40% from the floor and 19% from 3 since his debut last season.

You are talking about a player that is the only one on the roster the past two seasons not to get much play. You could describe it as doghouse even given the injuries and tanks going on. Would you feel like you have to prove somethingg with the time you get? They are asking him to shoot and finish because they are trying to trade him. But he needs minutes served with the team before he's going to be able to involve others more and press less. He had one really nice kickout this game for a corner three assist. These come with time played.

For example, we've seen plenty of Me Ball with Edwards already and yet he's started to pass more now. But Edwards already got 510 minutes in the NBA in 20 games. Another example, JMac played 500 minutes last season. In 1.25 seasons now Nowell is still below 270 minutes. Yet Nowell already shows his gameIQ every time. He shows his touch around the net, the floaters, positioning on defense is there. All he needs is to start hitting threes like he's done at other levels and then start knowing his teamates. Both of which probably come with time.

None of it matters. He's being shopped. That sales job they asked the MN local broadcasters to run during the one Cavs game was telling. Tuesday is an important date coming up, then up to the March 25th deadline. We didn't think he was better than the scrubs tanking for us, but we need to elevate that perception fast is the thought.

[AbeVigodaLive]

We lost because of a combination of our "shooters" having bad nights, and the coach not recognising this and changing it up - Saunders needs to pull his bloody socks up and start seeing what we all see

Question: Why are none of the other staff pointing this out? Surely there's someone in the org that can see what is blatantly obvious and has the balls to say something... surely.

I kept checking through out game. Numbers corroborated what the eyes were seeing. The starters were struggling and kept falling behind in score, the bench was doing much better and kept bringing the team back to a tie even slight leads, before the starters come back and fall behind again. Of course, the bench is somewhat playing against their bench fully or partially. That has some to do with it.

I agree though that if the coach absolutely never strays from his preordained hockey lineups to start certain quarters or finish the game, then we are asking to lose. When you've got significantly warmer shooting players to use, use them. All they need is an open shot and it doesn't matter who they are playing against, the warmer shooters will produce more. Maybe Saunders just doesn't feel that just any players can play well together or something. But the Okogie thing is starting to alarm many.

NBA rotations are largely structured. For example, there are many max contract type guys who sit at designated points... and then return at designated points. Often, this is actually agreed upon between the coaches and players. Wiggins just discussed how he appreciated knowing what was expected of him in GS. Players have long discussed preferring to have clearly defined roles.

And that means starters coming in to finish almost every game during crunch time.

That being said... all the uncertainty this season as the team tries to (1) play without Towns (2) try to play with two expensive veteran PGs (3) battle injuries and covid (4) try to work in young guys (5) try to hide guys sucking balls (6) try to incorporate almost an entirely new roster in a very short time... makes the Wolves one of the league's most unstructured teams for continuity.

It's a double-edged sword. But one thing is certain. A guy like Russell has A LOT more clout than a guy like Saunders. If he wants to come back in and finish a game... he's coming back in to finish the game.

[Calinks]

We lost because of a combination of our "shooters" having bad nights, and the coach not recognising this and changing it up - Saunders needs to pull his bloody socks up and start seeing what we all see

Question: Why are none of the other staff pointing this out? Surely there's someone in the org that can see what is blatantly obvious and has the balls to say something... surely.

I kept checking through out game. Numbers corroborated what the eyes were seeing. The starters were struggling and kept falling behind in score, the bench was doing much better and kept bringing the team back to a tie even slight leads, before the starters come back and fall behind again. Of course, the bench is somewhat playing against their bench fully or partially. That has some to do with it.

I agree though that if the coach absolutely never strays from his preordained hockey lineups to start certain quarters or finish the game, then we are asking to lose. When you've got significantly warmer shooting players to use, use them. All they need is an open shot and it doesn't matter who they are playing against, the warmer shooters will produce more. Maybe Saunders just doesn't feel that just any players can play well together or something. But the Okogie thing is starting to alarm many.

NBA rotations are largely structured. For example, there are many max contract type guys who sit at designated points... and then return at designated points. Often, this is actually agreed upon between the coaches and players. Wiggins just discussed how he appreciated knowing what was expected of him in GS. Players have long discussed preferring to have clearly defined roles.

And that means starters coming in to finish almost every game during crunch time.

That being said... all the uncertainty this season as the team tries to (1) play without Towns (2) try to play with two expensive veteran PGs (3) battle injuries and covid (4) try to work in young guys (5) try to hid guys sucking balls (6) try to incorporate almost an entirely new roster in a very short time... makes the Wolves one of the league's most unstructured team for continuity.

It's a double-edged sword. But one thing is certain. A guy like Russell has A LOT more clout than a guy like Saunders. If he wants to come back in and finish a game... he's coming back in to finish the game.

Happy someone brought this up. We are super reationary here and want players swapped in and out like a video game but that's just not how it works in the NBA. Players need structure and some level of expectation. It's really hard to consistent when you have no idea if you will get yanked out not.

I don't have a problem with the starters coming in to finish the game, that's their job. I do think there should be some room for riding a hot hand but I wont flip out in a scenario like this. Somewhat related, I see poster giving heat to players like Beasley and Russell sometimes for shooting lots of shots, I get it, when they are missing it hurts and I don't like all the selections either but those guys got a green light.

They aren't just doing it to be selfish pricks, those are their roles on this team. They are supposed to take a lot of shots and score. Even Okogie, yea its infuriating that he bricks all the time but him taking those shots is what he is told to do. now players can work to take better shots and all of that but in this system, if you get a good look, you are supposed to shoot it, even if you are a crap shooter.

[wolves_89]

I think this game showed that McDaniels should take a lot of Okogie's minutes in the rotation. McDaniels did a good job defending against the Cavs guards in some limited matchups and has been a surprisingly good defender overall, plus he is an actual threat on the perimeter. I also think Nowell has earned a rotation spot as he is a significantly better offensive player to Okogie/Culver and is pretty solid on defense as well, he might be the closest thing the Wolves have to a two way shooting guard.

[Jedzz]

We lost because of a combination of our "shooters" having bad nights, and the coach not recognising this and changing it up - Saunders needs to pull his bloody socks up and start seeing what we all see

Question: Why are none of the other staff pointing this out? Surely there's someone in the org that can see what is blatantly obvious and has the balls to say something... surely.

I kept checking through out game. Numbers corroborated what the eyes were seeing. The starters were struggling and kept falling behind in score, the bench was doing much better and kept bringing the team back to a tie even slight leads, before the starters come back and fall behind again. Of course, the bench is somewhat playing against their bench fully or partially. That has some to do with it.

I agree though that if the coach absolutely never strays from his preordained hockey lineups to start certain quarters or finish the game, then we are asking to lose. When you've got significantly warmer shooting players to use, use them. All they need is an open shot and it doesn't matter who they are playing against, the warmer shooters will produce more. Maybe Saunders just doesn't feel that just any players can play well together or something. But the Okogie thing is starting to alarm many.

NBA rotations are largely structured. For example, there are many max contract type guys who sit at designated points... and then return at designated points. Often, this is actually agreed upon between the coaches and players. Wiggins just discussed how he appreciated knowing what was expected of him in GS. Players have long discussed preferring to have clearly defined roles.

And that means starters coming in to finish almost every game during crunch time.

That being said... all the uncertainty this season as the team tries to (1) play without Towns (2) try to play with two expensive veteran PGs (3) battle injuries and covid (4) try to work in young guys (5) try to hide guys sucking balls (6) try to incorporate almost an entirely new roster in a very short time... makes the Wolves one of the league's most unstructured teams for continuity.

It's a double-edged sword. But one thing is certain. A guy like Russell has A LOT more clout than a guy like Saunders. If he wants to come back in and finish a game... he's coming back in to finish the game.

To a certain extent I'll side with mnost of that. But it says absolutely nothing about why Josh Okogie has to start every game in Saunders book. Nobody is selling me on his clout level.

I have no problem with Dlo starting and finishing games like some here. But do people expect guys like Dlo to pass to Okogie in final moments? It's who he is playing with that impacts some of his decisionmaking as well.

Okogie has made 5 shots total in the past 5 consecutive games. 22% FG during that span. 15pts for his last 96 minutes.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I kept checking through out game. Numbers corroborated what the eyes were seeing. The starters were struggling and kept falling behind in score, the bench was doing much better and kept bringing the team back to a tie even slight leads, before the starters come back and fall behind again. Of course, the bench is somewhat playing against their bench fully or partially. That has some to do with it.

I agree though that if the coach absolutely never strays from his preordained hockey lineups to start certain quarters or finish the game, then we are asking to lose. When you've got significantly warmer shooting players to use, use them. All they need is an open shot and it doesn't matter who they are playing against, the warmer shooters will produce more. Maybe Saunders just doesn't feel that just any players can play well together or something. But the Okogie thing is starting to alarm many.

NBA rotations are largely structured. For example, there are many max contract type guys who sit at designated points... and then return at designated points. Often, this is actually agreed upon between the coaches and players. Wiggins just discussed how he appreciated knowing what was expected of him in GS. Players have long discussed preferring to have clearly defined roles.

And that means starters coming in to finish almost every game during crunch time.

That being said... all the uncertainty this season as the team tries to (1) play without Towns (2) try to play with two expensive veteran PGs (3) battle injuries and covid (4) try to work in young guys (5) try to hide guys sucking balls (6) try to incorporate almost an entirely new roster in a very short time... makes the Wolves one of the league's most unstructured teams for continuity.

It's a double-edged sword. But one thing is certain. A guy like Russell has A LOT more clout than a guy like Saunders. If he wants to come back in and finish a game... he's coming back in to finish the game.

To a certain extent I'll side with mnost of that. But it says absolutely nothing about why Josh Okogie has to start every game in Saunders book. Nobody is selling me on his clout level.

I have no problem with Dlo starting and finishing games like some here. But do people expect guys like Dlo to pass to Okogie in final moments? It's who he is playing with that impacts some of his decisionmaking as well.

Okogie has made 5 shots total in the past 5 consecutive games. 22% FG during that span. 15pts for his last 96 minutes.

Sure. It's not easy to justify Okogie getting much run at this point... at least offensively.

I was just referencing the other part of your post.

[theGreatRC]

Josh is one of the few not maximizing his time on the court..he's our "best" defender but is such a liability on offense right now that we can't get good shots off because teams are loading up on our scorers during crunch time and daring Josh to beat them and it's in his head.

Jim Pete said Josh is one of the guys suffering the most without KAT, but KAT can't make Josh hit wide open jumpers.

[Sugarless]

I am positivly surprised by Nowell. He's active, seems to have good touch around the rim and a solid first step. But the best thing about him, is that he makes quick decisions, which is an invaluable skill. I am glad he's getting minutes.

Yep, he always quickly decides that as soon as he gets the ball he's going to shoot it or drive against a wall of players.

I don't like him, at all. Dude won't look at any of his teammates despite having shot 40% from the floor and 19% from 3 since his debut last season.

You are talking about a player that is the only one on the roster the past two seasons not to get much play. You could describe it as doghouse even given the injuries and tanks going on. Would you feel like you have to prove somethingg with the time you get? They are asking him to shoot and finish because they are trying to trade him. But he needs minutes served with the team before he's going to be able to involve others more and press less. He had one really nice kickout this game for a corner three assist. These come with time played.

For example, we've seen plenty of Me Ball with Edwards already and yet he's started to pass more now. But Edwards already got 510 minutes in the NBA in 20 games. Another example, JMac played 500 minutes last season. In 1.25 seasons now Nowell is still below 270 minutes. Yet Nowell already shows his gameIQ every time. He shows his touch around the net, the floaters, positioning on defense is there. All he needs is to start hitting threes like he's done at other levels and then start knowing his teamates. Both of which probably come with time.

None of it matters. He's being shopped. That sales job they asked the MN local broadcasters to run during the one Cavs game was telling. Tuesday is an important date coming up, then up to the March 25th deadline. We didn't think he was better than the scrubs tanking for us, but we need to elevate that perception fast is the thought.

I'm talking about a player I have known since 2017 when he took over Fultz's spot as a freshman at UW, thank you very much.

He was an undersized SG with tunnel vision then, he's an undersized SG with tunnel vision now, and unless he starts playing for the team and stops being an undersized SG with tunnel vision he'll end up out of the league sooner rather than later.

Beyond that, I couldn't find myself farther from your point of view. Having a limited number of minutes and chucking every ball you get or going one against the world is not the way you're going to earn more playing time with any coach that has a working brain, an it's certainly not the mark of a high BBIQ player, especially when you're taking so many bad shots and missing most of them. Making the right play, sharing the ball and taking good shots can do wonders when you're trying to earn the confidence of the coaching staff, however. But these are the Minnesota Timberwolves of Gersson Rosas and Ryan Saunders after all, so probably none of that applies, I'll give you that.

TLDR: Nowell has always been a me-first guard, and that's just a type of player that I don't like. I don't have anything against him, I'd be happy to see him change for the better starting tomorrow and for him to become a smarter and more well rounded player, like with any other young guy, but that's not going to happen if he keeps playing the way he's always done. Looking for excuses regarding his playing time or his future with the team is not going to change that.

[WolfAddict]

I understand some posters and their take that the starters should have clearly defined roles, which includes certain minutes to be played, and that would be true for MOST games. But if a game/player/rotation isn't going to plan, why is there so much baulking at changing it up a bit? In my opinion, coaching isn't a cut and paste for all games, but adapting to the flow of the game - Any player getting pissy over game time needs to remember, in my opinion, that this is a team sport and the team should ALWAYS have priority over what minutes you get.

[Jedzz]

Yep, he always quickly decides that as soon as he gets the ball he's going to shoot it or drive against a wall of players.

I don't like him, at all. Dude won't look at any of his teammates despite having shot 40% from the floor and 19% from 3 since his debut last season.

You are talking about a player that is the only one on the roster the past two seasons not to get much play. You could describe it as doghouse even given the injuries and tanks going on. Would you feel like you have to prove somethingg with the time you get? They are asking him to shoot and finish because they are trying to trade him. But he needs minutes served with the team before he's going to be able to involve others more and press less. He had one really nice kickout this game for a corner three assist. These come with time played.

For example, we've seen plenty of Me Ball with Edwards already and yet he's started to pass more now. But Edwards already got 510 minutes in the NBA in 20 games. Another example, JMac played 500 minutes last season. In 1.25 seasons now Nowell is still below 270 minutes. Yet Nowell already shows his gameIQ every time. He shows his touch around the net, the floaters, positioning on defense is there. All he needs is to start hitting threes like he's done at other levels and then start knowing his teamates. Both of which probably come with time.

None of it matters. He's being shopped. That sales job they asked the MN local broadcasters to run during the one Cavs game was telling. Tuesday is an important date coming up, then up to the March 25th deadline. We didn't think he was better than the scrubs tanking for us, but we need to elevate that perception fast is the thought.

I'm talking about a player I have known since 2017 when he took over Fultz's spot as a freshman at UW, thank you very much.

He was an undersized SG with tunnel vision then, he's an undersized SG with tunnel vision now, and unless he starts playing for the team and stops being an undersized SG with tunnel vision he'll end up out of the league sooner rather than later.

Beyond that, I couldn't find myself farther from your point of view. Having a limited number of minutes and chucking every ball you get or going one against the world is not the way you're going to earn more playing time with any coach that has a working brain, an it's certainly not the mark of a high BBIQ player, especially when you're taking so many bad shots and missing most of them. Making the right play, sharing the ball and taking good shots can do wonders when you're trying to earn the confidence of the coaching staff, however. But these are the Minnesota Timberwolves of Gersson Rosas and Ryan Saunders after all, so probably none of that applies, I'll give you that.

TLDR: Nowell has always been a me-first guard, and that's just a type of player that I don't like. I don't have anything against him, I'd be happy to see him change for the better starting tomorrow and for him to become a smarter and more well rounded player, like with any other young guy, but that's not going to happen if he keeps playing the way he's always done. Looking for excuses regarding his playing time or his future with the team is not going to change that.

Bunch of hot air, that's what you are talking about.

[packforfreedom]

I only watched Nowell with the Wolves so I don't know about his flaws in college. What I see from the very limited time he got on the floor with us is a talented scorer who can fit the role of the bench scorers of the league. He was a 2nd round pick so I don't expect him to become a starting caliber allaround player, but if the develops into a maybe lesser version of Lou Williams, who can give you quick 12 points off the bench on decent percentages when you need them, it was a good pick.

[Sugarless]

You are talking about a player that is the only one on the roster the past two seasons not to get much play. You could describe it as doghouse even given the injuries and tanks going on. Would you feel like you have to prove somethingg with the time you get? They are asking him to shoot and finish because they are trying to trade him. But he needs minutes served with the team before he's going to be able to involve others more and press less. He had one really nice kickout this game for a corner three assist. These come with time played.

For example, we've seen plenty of Me Ball with Edwards already and yet he's started to pass more now. But Edwards already got 510 minutes in the NBA in 20 games. Another example, JMac played 500 minutes last season. In 1.25 seasons now Nowell is still below 270 minutes. Yet Nowell already shows his gameIQ every time. He shows his touch around the net, the floaters, positioning on defense is there. All he needs is to start hitting threes like he's done at other levels and then start knowing his teamates. Both of which probably come with time.

None of it matters. He's being shopped. That sales job they asked the MN local broadcasters to run during the one Cavs game was telling. Tuesday is an important date coming up, then up to the March 25th deadline. We didn't think he was better than the scrubs tanking for us, but we need to elevate that perception fast is the thought.

I'm talking about a player I have known since 2017 when he took over Fultz's spot as a freshman at UW, thank you very much.

He was an undersized SG with tunnel vision then, he's an undersized SG with tunnel vision now, and unless he starts playing for the team and stops being an undersized SG with tunnel vision he'll end up out of the league sooner rather than later.

Beyond that, I couldn't find myself farther from your point of view. Having a limited number of minutes and chucking every ball you get or going one against the world is not the way you're going to earn more playing time with any coach that has a working brain, an it's certainly not the mark of a high BBIQ player, especially when you're taking so many bad shots and missing most of them. Making the right play, sharing the ball and taking good shots can do wonders when you're trying to earn the confidence of the coaching staff, however. But these are the Minnesota Timberwolves of Gersson Rosas and Ryan Saunders after all, so probably none of that applies, I'll give you that.

TLDR: Nowell has always been a me-first guard, and that's just a type of player that I don't like. I don't have anything against him, I'd be happy to see him change for the better starting tomorrow and for him to become a smarter and more well rounded player, like with any other young guy, but that's not going to happen if he keeps playing the way he's always done. Looking for excuses regarding his playing time or his future with the team is not going to change that.

Bunch of hot air, that's what you are talking about.

Nothing you can actually bring to the conversation, right? That's what I figured.

[Sugarless]

I only watched Nowell with the Wolves so I don't know about his flaws in college. What I see from the very limited time he got on the floor with us is a talented scorer who can fit the role of the bench scorers of the league. He was a 2nd round pick so I don't expect him to become a starting caliber allaround player, but if the develops into a maybe lesser version of Lou Williams, who can give you quick 12 points of the bench on decent percentages when you need them, it was a good pick.

That would be fantastic, but it's easy to pick the most succesful off-the-bench scoring guard in recent history and think of him as the guy to aspire to. The truth however is that these types of guards are a dime a dozen, and most don't last in the league because they don't change their ways, they can't pass like Lou Williams and most of all they can't create any type of shot and go to the line constantly, the way he does. There's a dozen guys that are out of the NBA every season for every Lou Will, Jamal Crawford or Bobby Jackson that we've seen have any type of sustained success in that role for the past 20 years. You know, the Jordan Crawfords, the Jimmer Fredettes, the Eddie Houses, the Jannero Pargos, the CJ Watsons, Donald Sloan, Sean Kilpatrick, Troy Daniels, Marcus Thornton, Jordan McRae, Shannon Brown, Rashad McCants... The list goes on and on, and those are only guys that are easy to recognize!

Right now you have a bunch of kids with the same profile trying to stick to a roster, including someone like Allonzo Trier who's still looking for a team in just his 3rd season despite the fact that he was a much more succesful player in college, for a much better program, and he had some great scoring games with the Knicks and infinitely more media attention. If Nowell wants to make it, he's going to have to do much more than just be the Minnesota Timberwolves' Allonzo Trier.

[packforfreedom]

I only watched Nowell with the Wolves so I don't know about his flaws in college. What I see from the very limited time he got on the floor with us is a talented scorer who can fit the role of the bench scorers of the league. He was a 2nd round pick so I don't expect him to become a starting caliber allaround player, but if the develops into a maybe lesser version of Lou Williams, who can give you quick 12 points of the bench on decent percentages when you need them, it was a good pick.

That would be fantastic, but it's easy to pick the most succesful off-the-bench scoring guard in recent history and think of him as the guy to aspire to. The truth however is that these types of guards are a dime a dozen, and most don't last in the league because they don't change their ways, they can't pass like Lou Williams and most of all they can't create any type of shot and go to the line constantly, the way he does. There's a dozen guys that are out of the NBA every season for every Lou Will, Jamal Crawford or Bobby Jackson that we've seen have any type of sustained success in that role for the past 20 years. You know, the Jordan Crawfords, the Jimmer Fredettes, the Eddie Houses, the Jannero Pargos, the CJ Watsons, Donald Sloan, Sean Kilpatrick, Troy Daniels, Marcus Thornton, Jordan McRae, Shannon Brown, Rashad McCants... The list goes on and on, and those are only guys that are easy to recognize!

Right now you have a bunch of kids with the same profile trying to stick to a roster, including someone like Allonzo Trier who's still looking for a team in just his 3rd season despite the fact that he was a much more succesful player in college, for a much better program, and he had some great scoring games with the Knicks and infinitely more media attention. If Nowell wants to make it, he's going to have to do much more than just be the Minnesota Timberwolves' Allonzo Trier.

I wrote 'lesser version of Lou Williams' for a reason. And if Nowell turns out to be an Eddie House level player, I'd be perfectly fine with it. I still like what I saw from Nowell in the limited time he got to play and think you have unrealistic expectations for a 2nd round pick.

[Sugarless]

I wrote 'lesser version of Lou Williams' for a reason. And if Nowell turns out to be an Eddie House level player, I'd be perfectly fine with it. I still like what I saw from Nowell in the limited time he got to play and think you have unrealistic expectations for a 2nd round pick.

I understand you said lesser version. All of those guys are / were lesser versions of Lou Williams, and if you look around the league you won't find more than a couple guys who have that role and that have been earning consistent minutes for years. Microwave scorers who won't pass the ball aren't that interesting in a league filled with guys that can shoot, but also bring other things to the table.

As for Eddie House, he was a career 7PPG, 1APG guy that was strictly kept around for his 3-pt shooting in an era where it wasn't as easy to find cheap outside scorers. Now there's a dozen of them coming out of college every year and teams won't hesitate to get rid of them and try someone else after a couple seasons. Again, ask Allonzo Trier or Frank Mason III, who was an excellent shooter, a leader and much more of a PG coming out of college, and who just signed a 2-way contract with the Magic after barely playing since his rookie season (he's a 4 year veteran now).

As for your last comment, I don't really have any expectations for Nowell, regardless of where he was drafted. You either like what a player does on the court or you don't. I like team players and I prefer to avoid guys that don't play smart and that are more worried about their numbers than about the team, whether that's Nowell (again, here's hoping he changes for the better and has a long career ahead of him) or Russell Westbrook.

Anyway, let's agree to disagree. It'd be no fun if we all liked the same type of players, after all.

[Jedzz]

I'm talking about a player I have known since 2017 when he took over Fultz's spot as a freshman at UW, thank you very much.

He was an undersized SG with tunnel vision then, he's an undersized SG with tunnel vision now, and unless he starts playing for the team and stops being an undersized SG with tunnel vision he'll end up out of the league sooner rather than later.

Beyond that, I couldn't find myself farther from your point of view. Having a limited number of minutes and chucking every ball you get or going one against the world is not the way you're going to earn more playing time with any coach that has a working brain, an it's certainly not the mark of a high BBIQ player, especially when you're taking so many bad shots and missing most of them. Making the right play, sharing the ball and taking good shots can do wonders when you're trying to earn the confidence of the coaching staff, however. But these are the Minnesota Timberwolves of Gersson Rosas and Ryan Saunders after all, so probably none of that applies, I'll give you that.

TLDR: Nowell has always been a me-first guard, and that's just a type of player that I don't like. I don't have anything against him, I'd be happy to see him change for the better starting tomorrow and for him to become a smarter and more well rounded player, like with any other young guy, but that's not going to happen if he keeps playing the way he's always done. Looking for excuses regarding his playing time or his future with the team is not going to change that.

Bunch of hot air, that's what you are talking about.

Nothing you can actually bring to the conversation, right? That's what I figured.

If there was any substance and not just subjective talk in that hot mess I would dissect it for valuable discussion. That's obviously my way. Just don't see any there this time.

Your description of him in college seems so far off base I don't see the point in discussing. He played as an end of the spear but as the second to Thybulle's and other Senior's leads early in games. The older players always were leading the attack early on. First half of games he was never a Me First Guy. I've seen most his college games and most ended the same way. When Thybulle knew it was time to in second half of games he started going to Nowell for everything and finish those possessions and games he did. But that team moved the ball really well and would find Nowell with good passes and he would drain them or drive many in for his accurate floaters. That team probably beats this Timbwolves team sans Towns a few games out of 5 just from playing cleaner basketball. But since your view of his time there is left field there is no further discussion needed. If he was a me first guy the first half of all those games he would have been a lot like Edwards trying to run point and initiate so much. Never did.