Identity crisis?

[Klomp]

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At a different point in the interview, Finch said something about Jokic and Denver that I think applies to our team as well.

"In the playoffs, everyone wants to muddy up the game and go small. The key to being and staying big when teams go small in the playoff is scoring. Can the big punish the smalls enough in the playoffs."

That's to me a big key of making the Russell for Conley trade. It's not so much about saving face on the Gobert trade, but bringing someone in who will help try to punish the teams for going small. Russell didn't do that. Conley will.

[younggunsmn]

The Conley trade was EXACTLY about salvaging the Gobert experiment.
Ant has shown zero chemistry with Rudy and D-Lo openly despised him. Conley has a history of good chemistry with Rudy and ability to get him the ball in spots he won't turn it over.

The thing that disappoints me about Rudy is that he's been in the league 10 years and still doesn't understand his limitations.
He has some of the worst hands I've ever seen from a regular player. The Kwame Brown comparisons were sadly accurate.
If he holds the ball more than a second or two its open season on a turnover, he also fumbles passes most other bigs don't.

The second is that for a player of his accomplishment his offensive spacing is terrible. He doesn't understand driving lanes, passing angles, or the gravity he creates. He's at his most dangerous when his defender is forgetting about him and his job is to make his defender make a tough choice about whether to help on the drive or give up an open dunk.
Bigs instinctively gravitate to the middle of the floor, but often you are helping the team more if you are collapsing the weak side with your gravity on the baseline.

Finch is right and the Clips tried to play Rudy off the floor by going small last game, and we immediately tried to force feed Rudy.

KAT being terrible against smalls really hurt us in the playoffs. We made the mistake of trying to punish them with postups which opened us up to traps and double teams. The Pick and Roll is more effective but KAT doesn't do the roll action very well.
Ant also has the ability to punish a small lineup with no rim protector, but this is harder when Rudy can't draw his man out of the paint and the other team can deploy some variant of a box and one.
Rudy can punish teams going small, but standing in front the basket demanding the ball isn't a great way to do it, thats not his strength. He can hunt putbacks and use his gravity to open driving lanes and open corner threes.
Part of his problem with lobs is that he hunts them too early before the ballhandler has collapsed the defense.
When he could have an easy dunk later in the play if he just kept proper spacing and gave a good passing angle.

[minimus]

The Conley trade was EXACTLY about salvaging the Gobert experiment.

I dont remember whether I posted it here, but here is my quick analysis I made for my telegram channel back in Februar.

I tried to understand what type of PG conley is. In UTA he assisted Markkanen the most (85 assist). The next guys in the list are:
Clarkson, 6th man, patented bench scorer (53)
Olynik - pick-n-pop big (42)
Beasley - catch-and-shoot (39)
Vando - dunker spot and rim runner (34)
Kessler - classic rim runner (33)

As you can see as only traditional PG in UTA, Conley was very successful at balancing offense between completely different types of scorers. And you also can make some parallels with MIN:

Markkanen role as versatile offensive minded big == Towns role
Olynik in pick-n-pop == part of Towns role
Beasley/Clarkson == part of Edwards role
Vando/Kessler == Gobert role

So at first glance Conley trade was about Gobert experiment. But in reality Towns+DLo experiment never really clicked. They did not elevate each other like many was expecting. And to make it even worse, when Towns, Edwards and DLo were together on the floor there was always an issue with pecking order in offense, when either Towns or DLo or Edwards was standing in the corner. On other hand Towns and Edwards have showed signs of great chemistry. I remember one game against PHO on March 18, 2021. Towns scored 41, Edwards scored 42 points in impressive win. Rubio was playing at PG

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

After that win I thought if we add DLo these guys would be unstoppable. But unfortunately it never happened. Moreover we could not find a role for DLo, all these experiment DLo+McLaughlin, DLo+Rubio, DLo+Beverley were only workaround to stabilise PG position. Plus all these undersized lineups with DLo had "predefined" weaknesses such as rebounding. I remember all these conversations "what is Finch type of PG". As many fans I thought that Finch offense is build for comboguards, doesnt value traditional PGs much (see Rubio experiment fail). I thought that Jamal Murray type of comboguard would be ideal for us.

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But at this point of Towns and Edwards development (even with Towns recent improvement as passer he is not Jokic as playmaker/decision maker and might never be, same for Edwards who has improved as passer but not at Booker, Donovan Mitchell level) there is still place for traditional PG in our offense. Yes, we can see DEN play at elite level, Murray is balling right now, but DEN had also success with Monte Morris who offers little offense. I thought Finch does not want spread pick-n-rolls, hence, no traditional PG would fit here. But here comes Conley and all of the sudden runs consistently every game efficient empty-side pick-n-rolls. Even without multiple catch-n-shoot 3pt shooter, it works.

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So yes, we can say that Conley came here to save Gobert trade. But Towns+DLo experiment never really clicked, Edwards+DLo experiment never really clicked. DLo as PG experiment never really clicked. Yes, DLo went completely nuclear last two months, while he was playing in scorer mode: shorter possessions, lowest USG% in career (22.7), moved off the ball, got a lot of screens from Gobert. I believe it was the best solution for DLo who is seeking new big contract, and it was a workaround for MIN who did not want to give him big money, but needed solution at PG. Also I think that trading him in LAL was a really a good result for DLo, where he can showcase his talent in similar scorer role under LeBron wing.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

To sum up:
So yeah, as quick win of Conley trade you can see more production from Gobert, but we speak here about like less than two assists per game (based on UTA years). Conley is much quicker decision maker than DLo, he shoots faster, he makes extra pass faster, he also has almost twice less USG% (13.6%) than DLo. At the end Conley trade change completely pecking order in offense, shifts our offensive balance more in Edwards, Towns, MCD direction. Conley played in MEM as part of Grit n Grind team with pick-n-pop big Gasol and postup PF Randolph. That team was successful. In UTA Gobert Conley played with rim-runner Gobert. That team was successful. This season in UTA was kind of synthesis of whole his career because he had to use his experience to run a young roster with very different players. That team was successful.

I still think that this roster has a lot room for improvement. The Conley and Gobert early chemistry is the floor of this trade result. The ceiling will determined by his impact on whole roster, mostly on Towns, Edwards and MCD development path.

P.S. Here is tool I used for data: https://www.perthirtysix.com/essay/passing-wheels

[minimus]

What MIN can learn from SAC game?

First, the pace was absolutely unbelievable! That was my biggest fear before the game. With Conley and Gobert I was afraid that SAC would just outrun and outgun us. Also without Nowell we dont have much scorers on the bench. Good news, our offense was able to operate at such high pace and high execution level. SAC only had 6(!!!) turnovers! And our defense was good, NAW-MCD-Anderson-Gobert were excellent, Conley is old, undersized and aging but he never gives up. Also feels good to have Anderson, NAW, Edwards and MCD simply switching in defense. Without worrying about being undersized. Bad news, Naz Reid was exposed in defense against Sabonis who bigger, stronger and as much as fast decision maker as Reid. So first thought: we can play against high pace offense and we can play high pace offense ourselves as well. I dont think it is sustainalbe for whole season, at least with this roster, because it requires a lot of athleticism but I could not stop thinking that how would perform Minott from the bench against this SAC bench unit. So if we add two athletic players (let say Minott and Moore) to current roster we will be able to run 48 minutes. If Minott and Moore can survive in high pace offense/defense it might simplify a lot our coaching staff job, because Anderson, Minott, NAW, Edwards, MCD and Moore can switch avoiding matchups.

Second, I could not believe that ATL traded Kevin Huerter for Justin Holiday, Maurice Harkless, and the Kings’ 2024 FRP (top-14 protected. His DHO with Sabonis is a cheat code against any defense. He makes it look so easy to score from 3pt, and he was the reason why we could not keep our 12 points lead. Last year Finch used Beasley a lot, this year he tried both Forbes and Ryan. I wonder if a sharpshooter role is still something we will try to address in offseason. If we find a good shooter he can benefit from DHO game with Gobert, Towns all game long.

Third, we played three quarters of high paced offense and tried to slow down pace in fourth quarter. So it was not normally regular season game. It was preview of playoff games for both teams. And here things are still needed to clean up. I found interesting how Sabonis took three point shot immediately after Gobert went to deep drop. We need this type of offensive IQ, our strength here is Edwards, but it is too predictable, I hope to see some kind of two-man game between Towns and Edwards, Gobert and Conley. There was one possession when Edwards and Gobert played empty-side pick-n-roll on left wing, but Edwards did not see pass to rolling Gobert, right after this Conley and Gobert executed exactly same play and Rudy scored. So I hope that in playoffs we will run similar simple plays to get most of our best players. Edwards has been passing the ball more and better, but some of kick-off passes are a bit too high. Imagine Towns being either pass target or passer. But on positive note, I never seen so many passes within team offensive flow which resulted in open threes for Conley, MCD, Prince, Anderson, NAW, McLaughlin.

To sum up: I could not stop thinking about Kyle Theige words:

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Last three games were exactly what he defines as meaningful basketball games. It might be not flashy, nor entertaining games, but this is type of environment I want Edwards and MCD to play in.

[wolves_89]

I think it's becoming clear what the Wolves want their identity to be. Look at the players that Connelly has added: Conley, NAW, Moore, Anderson, Prince (extension), Minott, and Gobert. The thing they all have in common is that they are solid or better defenders with everyone but Gobert being capable of playing a switch everything style of defense. Add Edwards and McDaniels to that group and the Wolves now have the personnel to have 4 switchable players on the floor pretty much all the time.

[jpatrick]

I think it's becoming clear what the Wolves want their identity to be. Look at the players that Connelly has added: Conley, NAW, Moore, Anderson, Prince (extension), Minott, and Gobert. The thing they all have in common is that they are solid or better defenders with everyone but Gobert being capable of playing a switch everything style of defense. Add Edwards and McDaniels to that group and the Wolves now have the personnel to have 4 switchable players on the floor pretty much all the time.

I 100% agree with this. That’s one of the primary reasons I don’t see Towns working with Gobert. I think they’d rather have a switchable Siakim like player in that spot.

[wolves_89]

I think it's becoming clear what the Wolves want their identity to be. Look at the players that Connelly has added: Conley, NAW, Moore, Anderson, Prince (extension), Minott, and Gobert. The thing they all have in common is that they are solid or better defenders with everyone but Gobert being capable of playing a switch everything style of defense. Add Edwards and McDaniels to that group and the Wolves now have the personnel to have 4 switchable players on the floor pretty much all the time.

I 100% agree with this. That’s one of the primary reasons I don’t see Towns working with Gobert. I think they’d rather have a switchable Siakim like player in that spot.

I'm optimistic that the current roster will work really well with either KAT or Gobert on the court with 4 switchable defenders. The unanswered question is how things will work for the 15-20 minutes that KAT and Gobert will need to be on the court together (in the rare instances when both are healthy). It will be really interesting to see what the defensive strategy is going to be for those minutes.

[Klomp]

To sum up: I could not stop thinking about Kyle Theige words:

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Last three games were exactly what he defines as meaningful basketball games. It might not flashy, nor entertaining games. But this is type of environment I want Edwards to play in.

This has been something I've tried to echo since the very beginning. I don't think it can be understated.

What's our identity? A competitive team. What that means exactly can't be quantified, but I believe it will improve every year, with young studs at the center of it all.

[minimus]

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Motion offense

[minimus]

When I re-watched last game I found this sequence very interesting. the Nets went full five-out mode with DFS-O'Neale-Johnson-Bridges-Dinwiddie lineup.

109-109, Dinwiddie gets screen from DFS, beat Conley, but Gobert stays connected and slows down Dinwiddie, Edwards overhelps, O'Neale lifts from corner making impossible for Edwards to contest

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118-119 Dinwiddie beats Anderson off the dribble, but Anderson stays connected tunnelling Dinwiddie towards middle of the rim. Edwards rotated to protect the rim, blocks Dinwiddie layup attempt. The ball goes to DFS who beats Gobert, but Gobert stays connected tunnelling Dinwiddie towards middle of the rim. Edwards rotated to protect the rim blocks DFS layup attempt

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121-121, Dinwiddie got screen from Johnson in order to create favorable matchup against Anderson, Dinwiddie beat Anderson off the dribble, Gobert overhelped, DFS hit open three

123-124, Dinwiddie in ISO against Anderson, Dinwiddie beat Anderson off the dribble, Gobert stayed in the corner, Edwards rotated to protect the rim, MCD rotated to cover three point shot from corner.

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A few things I want to highlight:

- we intentionally allowed Anderson vs Dinwiddie ISOs. Otherwise I understand why we did not pre-switch Edwards or MCD against Dinwiddie. I wonder if Edwards could be a better option as PoA defender, but Dinwiddie completely destroyed NAW in 3rd quarter, so I understand why Anderson was the choice you can live with. Remember that Anderson played excellent defense against Doncic in clutch.

- real time execution in defense is a very difficult thing to do. Ideally in such situation I want Anderson, MCD, Edwards, Gobert to be low men or X-out on perimeter. At the same time I want MCD, NAW, Edwards, Anderson as PoA defenders. But it requires A LOT of practice and communication. I love how both Gobert and Anderson were upset in first episode, when Edwards overhelped, and I liked how he responded with two blocks later. Then Gobert overhelped and Anderson was upset. It is still learning process.

- it will be critical for success of this organisation how fast both MCD and Edwards can grow as positional defenders in such situations. 22yo and 21yo, should only get better. It is more about situational awareness, defensive IQ.

- DFS-O'Neale-Johnson-Bridges-Dinwiddie lineup is an elite five-out unit. A very unique combination of shooting, elite defense and playmaking. I hope we can test Towns-Anderson-MCD-Edwards-NAW lineup next season against such units.

P.S. Found this interesting article. I wonder if putting Anderson on Dinwiddie had same goal: invite to beat defense off the dribble, tunnell towards the middle of the paint and contest the layup at rim by using MCD, Gobert and Edwards.

https://www.twincities.com/2023/03/11/timberwolves-need-anthony-edwards-to-show-patience-against-switching-defenses/

[TimberKat]

Why our fans are so bipolar? We have too many bipolar players:

Ant – great scorer, play with heart, puts in effort, and lots of upside but still raw. He is like the worst passer of the last 3 classes of top 10 picks. Issues from his pre-draft reports are still there: too often settle for low percentage shots, basketball IQ at times leaves something to be desired, poor defensive awareness, disregard of playing defense (efforts are getting there, just not in team schemes), lack mid-range game (getting better), etc. Lonzo Ball, Evan Mobley, and Banchero’s game are all more mature than Ant’s.

Towns – great offensive play but drives you nuts with fouls, arguing with refs, defense got worse over the years

Gobert – great defense but don’t have a shot other than dunks

DLo – Anti Gobert

Reid, Nowell, JMcL – are all bipolar players in their own ways.

It's difficult to get any consistency from this group.

[shrink]

I was just thinking about this tonight, right after I warned the overconfident Lakers fans that Vanderbilt, Beasley and DLo are all essentially one-way players too. They all have one great NBA skill, but they bring holes to the other side of the game that is hard to compensate for.

Truthfully, we still don’t have many two way players. Is SloMo? McDaniels yet? Maybe Prince, but at a lower level for both sides?

[GopherIt!]

some very insightful posts fellas. thank you.

Brooklyn may have lost KI/KD but they reinvented their team adding m. bridges, cam johnson, dinwiddie & DFS.
those four guys are all starting. add in claxton, curry, harris & oneal. That’s a damn solid team 1-8. All of those guys (save Nic) are excellent shooters. They play really smart team ball. I’m going to have to watch more of their games. It’s almost educational. Our youngsters would benefit from playing them more often.

I really hope we get to see the Kat-Rudy tandem in action soon.

[minimus]

Some plays from last game:

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They run the same split action against GSW, but Edwards did not cut hard, Garza did not adjust and DDV jumped into passing lane. This time it worked.

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Another semi-split action

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Elevator for Edwards + empty side pick-n-roll

[shrink]

Some plays from last game ..

Thanks! Fun watches.

I like seeing the bigs hitting the cutting Ant. I think it will encourage Ant to pass.

Also enjoy Rudy catching one-handed lobs. It seems strange to me that he struggles to catch two-handed bounce passes, but looks fluid here. I wonder how big his hands are?

[Klomp]

Some might call it an identity crisis, but the thing I still appreciate about this roster is how varied we can be. We can go huge, with Towns and Gobert. We can go traditional, with Anderson next to either Towns or Gobert. We can go small with Reid or even Anderson at center. On the perimeter too, we have a number of options due to the versatility and length of Edwards and McDaniels along with the solid vets like Conley, Prince and Rivers with promising young guys like Alexander-Walker, Minott and Nowell. At the end of the day, when the game gets tough, we have a guy who can get buckets under the bright lights of the playoffs and guys who can slow down star players. Situationally, we have practically everything a coach might need.

[minimus]

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[minimus]

Some might call it an identity crisis, but the thing I still appreciate about this roster is how varied we can be. We can go huge, with Towns and Gobert. We can go traditional, with Anderson next to either Towns or Gobert. We can go small with Reid or even Anderson at center. On the perimeter too, we have a number of options due to the versatility and length of Edwards and McDaniels along with the solid vets like Conley, Prince and Rivers with promising young guys like Alexander-Walker, Minott and Nowell. At the end of the day, when the game gets tough, we have a guy who can get buckets under the bright lights of the playoffs and guys who can slow down star players. Situationally, we have practically everything a coach might need.

From reddit:

Fun Stats: Wolves have FIVE players in the top 50 in blocks per game & three players in the top 50 in steals per game (nearly four):

BPG Leaders:
9. Rudy - 1.4
25. Jaden - 1.0
31. Slo Mo - 0.9
36. Naz Reid - 0.8
48. Ant - 0.7

SPG Leaders:
5. Ant - 1.7
28. Slo Mo - 1.2
42. Mike Conley - 1.1
Jaden narrowly misses the list by 0.1 SPG (he averages 0.9)

We definitely have all tools in defense. I also NAW and Conley addition because both bring hustle. I was big fan of Memphis “Grit and Grind” mentality with Gasol, Randolph Tony Allen and Conley. I doubt we can implement the same tactics in current NBA, but we definitely can learn from them how to be a consistent 100% effort team.

[GopherIt!]

Some might call it an identity crisis, but the thing I still appreciate about this roster is how varied we can be. We can go huge, with Towns and Gobert. We can go traditional, with Anderson next to either Towns or Gobert. We can go small with Reid or even Anderson at center. On the perimeter too, we have a number of options due to the versatility and length of Edwards and McDaniels along with the solid vets like Conley, Prince and Rivers with promising young guys like Alexander-Walker, Minott and Nowell. At the end of the day, when the game gets tough, we have a guy who can get buckets under the bright lights of the playoffs and guys who can slow down star players. Situationally, we have practically everything a coach might need.

From reddit:

Fun Stats: Wolves have FIVE players in the top 50 in blocks per game & three players in the top 50 in steals per game (nearly four):

BPG Leaders:
9. Rudy - 1.4
25. Jaden - 1.0
31. Slo Mo - 0.9
36. Naz Reid - 0.8
48. Ant - 0.7

SPG Leaders:
5. Ant - 1.7
28. Slo Mo - 1.2
42. Mike Conley - 1.1
Jaden narrowly misses the list by 0.1 SPG (he averages 0.9)

We definitely have all tools in defense. I also NAW and Conley addition because both bring hustle. I was big fan of Memphis “Grit and Grind” mentality with Gasol, Randolph Tony Allen and Conley. I doubt we can implement the same tactics in current NBA, but we definitely can learn from them how to be a consistent 100% effort team.

great posts my man.

[minimus]

"to kill dragons you need to become a dragon yourself"

With regard to officiating. IMO the rules are so complex right now, so there are multiple ways how referee could use (or not use) them to change the flow of the game. But.

I remember when I watched couple of MIA games with Lowry this season. He is washed, but multiple time he recognised violation of rules FASTER than referee. So he was signalling referee BEFORE referee even whistled. I remember CP3 did it against MIN, and OKC won that game.

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I am writing this now, because in those two games when I watched Lowry he affected almost EVERY referee decision when he was on the court, without getting technical foul for complaining. He won MIA at least two possession every game simply by doing that. I mean look at that stat. It is not about this game. We are CONSISTENTLY bad as group at this.

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Things like this happen in momentum and MUST be challenged in momentum.

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Our young players should learn this, our veterans should show leadership here AND our coaching staff MUST use challenges more, apply pressure on referee.

Why this is important for our identity? Because if we want to win with defense, if we want to to be that team that fights we need to get better at doing this. I am not fan of conspiracy theories, but I wonder if great defensive teams are those teams who get from referee green light to be more physical on both ends of the floor. I mean for instance moving screens in GSW, these things are kind of allowed since Bogut was there.

P.S. I actually like both moments. First that was really good recovery from Gobert who was able to contest and did not afraid to be posterised.

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Second, is that he just ran through Brown. It was not the level of Pekovic screen on Knight, but I definitely appreciate it.

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P.P.S I dont remember original quote but it is something like this "to kill dragons you need to become a dragon yourself". It describes perfectly my feeling. Update: it was "he who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself"