Michael Bloomberg Joins Lore/Rodriguez Ownership Group

[shrink]

I'm conflicted, on one hand this feels like it would be the final nail in the coffin for Glen. A guy like Bloomberg isn't getting involved unless he knows what the end game is going to be. On the other hand, Bloomberg is a huge scumbag and feels kinda gross that he could be a Timberwolves owner

Do you think? There isn’t any downside for him, whether the sale goes through or not, right?

The guy probably has a army of lawyers who have already researched the hell out of the situation and knows which is the winning side

Again, what is the downside?

If I can make a $10 bet on a coin flip that wins me $30 if I win, or I get my money back if I lose, why wouldn’t I make that bet, without knowing what the coin flip would be?

[shrink]

You know, I changed my mind. We’ll see what share/voice Bloomberg gets, but I think this greatly increases the chances that the team is broken up, and/or moved in the next eight years.

If you look at the Timberwolves as a business, it is the classic example of a target for corporate raiders. It has a motivated seller, who’s willing to sell for less. It has under-performed its market, but has pieces that are valuable. A competent manager can make a quick increase in the company’s value to flip it. And finally, it has guaranteed big payments coming in the future for ownership (upcoming tv deal and huge expansion fees weren’t factored into the sell price).

Both ownership groups will be trying to get an arena, because it boosts the value of the club. The “I don’t know if we need an arena ..” is a line most every owner uses, to try to encourage the public to vote for more of their tax dollars to fund it. But if the public votes it down, expect ARod, Lore and Bloomberg to say, “y’know, I just don’t know how long we can keep the team here financially, and y’know .. Cities X, Y, Z have fans anxious for a team..!” Again, many owners say this too when a stadium bill fails, but it wouldn’t have much teeth if Taylor was saying it.

Anyone follow Bloomberg’s purchase of the Baltimore Orioles? What kind of owner he has been?

If you believe Jon K, the "new" group is willing to:
• Pay for a new stadium
• Invest in a new TV network to replace Bally
• Pay the luxury tax going forward if TC thinks its the right thing to do.

If that's true, those aren't the moves of people trying to move and/or gut a team. That's looking to create a very profitable/sustainable infrastructure.

I truly hope they are being honest. Remember, we have only seen Lore and ARod mostly spend Taylor’s money so far. If they will truly pay for a new arena (rather than hold the cities’ taxpayers hostage for hundreds of millions), I’ll be a little more confident.

We’ll know soon, because I expect arena talk will begin right after ownership is decided.

[Mattya]

You know, I changed my mind. We’ll see what share/voice Bloomberg gets, but I think this greatly increases the chances that the team is broken up, and/or moved in the next eight years.

If you look at the Timberwolves as a business, it is the classic example of a target for corporate raiders. It has a motivated seller, who’s willing to sell for less. It has under-performed its market, but has pieces that are valuable. A competent manager can make a quick increase in the company’s value to flip it. And finally, it has guaranteed big payments coming in the future for ownership (upcoming tv deal and huge expansion fees weren’t factored into the sell price).

Both ownership groups will be trying to get an arena, because it boosts the value of the club. The “I don’t know if we need an arena ..” is a line most every owner uses, to try to encourage the public to vote for more of their tax dollars to fund it. But if the public votes it down, expect ARod, Lore and Bloomberg to say, “y’know, I just don’t know how long we can keep the team here financially, and y’know .. Cities X, Y, Z have fans anxious for a team..!” Again, many owners say this too when a stadium bill fails, but it wouldn’t have much teeth if Taylor was saying it.

Anyone follow Bloomberg’s purchase of the Baltimore Orioles? What kind of owner he has been?

This makes no sense to me.

At first the big concern was that AROD and Lore wouldn't have the money to pay the tax. Now they add they guy who is worth about 50 times what Glen Taylor is worth who spent billions of dollars in a matter of months for his presidential campaign with reports that they want to set up a local sports station and build a stadium, and now you believe the team is even more likely to be broken up or moved?

[TheProdigy]

For anyone still having reservations about Taylor selling the team. Don't forget the 2011 draft, when we sold multiple draft picks for "cash considerations" in order to offset costs related to firing Kurt Rambis. As a reminder, cash considerations have no impact on a team's salary cap. They only serve the owner's pocket book.

https://minnesota.sbnation.com/minnesota-timberwolves/2011/6/24/2241295/2011-nba-draft-grades-timberwolves-trades

[guest81]

Do you think? There isn’t any downside for him, whether the sale goes through or not, right?

The guy probably has a army of lawyers who have already researched the hell out of the situation and knows which is the winning side

Again, what is the downside?

If I can make a $10 bet on a coin flip that wins me $30 if I win, or I get my money back if I lose, why wouldn’t I make that bet, without knowing what the coin flip would be?

Is the deal that he gets his money back if Glen remains owner?

[Worm Guts]

For anyone still having reservations about Taylor selling the team. Don't forget the 2011 draft, when we sold multiple draft picks for "cash considerations" in order to offset costs related to firing Kurt Rambis. As a reminder, cash considerations have no impact on a team's salary cap. They only serve the owner's pocket book.

https://minnesota.sbnation.com/minnesota-timberwolves/2011/6/24/2241295/2011-nba-draft-grades-timberwolves-trades

Taylor hasn’t been consistently cheap, they have been in the luxury tax multiple times.
The biggest indictment of Taylor is that he is the one thing that hasn’t changed for the worst franchise in the NBA.

[karch34]

Bloomberg could easily double his investment when Vegas and Seattle get their teams in a very short time.

[TheProdigy]

For anyone still having reservations about Taylor selling the team. Don't forget the 2011 draft, when we sold multiple draft picks for "cash considerations" in order to offset costs related to firing Kurt Rambis. As a reminder, cash considerations have no impact on a team's salary cap. They only serve the owner's pocket book.

https://minnesota.sbnation.com/minnesota-timberwolves/2011/6/24/2241295/2011-nba-draft-grades-timberwolves-trades

Taylor hasn’t been consistently cheap, they have been in the luxury tax multiple times.
The biggest indictment of Taylor is that he is the one thing that hasn’t changed for the worst franchise in the NBA.

Up until this year, they were the worst franchise in any of the 4 major US sports leagues, not just the NBA (by regular season winning %).

[guest81]

For anyone still having reservations about Taylor selling the team. Don't forget the 2011 draft, when we sold multiple draft picks for "cash considerations" in order to offset costs related to firing Kurt Rambis. As a reminder, cash considerations have no impact on a team's salary cap. They only serve the owner's pocket book.

https://minnesota.sbnation.com/minnesota-timberwolves/2011/6/24/2241295/2011-nba-draft-grades-timberwolves-trades

Taylor hasn’t been consistently cheap, they have been in the luxury tax multiple times.
The biggest indictment of Taylor is that he is the one thing that hasn’t changed for the worst franchise in the NBA.

4 times in 30 years isn't a lot

[shrink]

For anyone still having reservations about Taylor selling the team. Don't forget the 2011 draft, when we sold multiple draft picks for "cash considerations" in order to offset costs related to firing Kurt Rambis. As a reminder, cash considerations have no impact on a team's salary cap. They only serve the owner's pocket book.

https://minnesota.sbnation.com/minnesota-timberwolves/2011/6/24/2241295/2011-nba-draft-grades-timberwolves-trades

Taylor hasn’t been consistently cheap, they have been in the luxury tax multiple times.
The biggest indictment of Taylor is that he is the one thing that hasn’t changed for the worst franchise in the NBA.

4 times in 30 years isn't a lot

It is about average. Probably above average for teams that have been so bad.

And it’s 4 times in 22 years, unless you blame Taylor for not paying lux taxes before they were created in the CBA.

[shrink]

You know, I changed my mind. We’ll see what share/voice Bloomberg gets, but I think this greatly increases the chances that the team is broken up, and/or moved in the next eight years.

If you look at the Timberwolves as a business, it is the classic example of a target for corporate raiders. It has a motivated seller, who’s willing to sell for less. It has under-performed its market, but has pieces that are valuable. A competent manager can make a quick increase in the company’s value to flip it. And finally, it has guaranteed big payments coming in the future for ownership (upcoming tv deal and huge expansion fees weren’t factored into the sell price).

Both ownership groups will be trying to get an arena, because it boosts the value of the club. The “I don’t know if we need an arena ..” is a line most every owner uses, to try to encourage the public to vote for more of their tax dollars to fund it. But if the public votes it down, expect ARod, Lore and Bloomberg to say, “y’know, I just don’t know how long we can keep the team here financially, and y’know .. Cities X, Y, Z have fans anxious for a team..!” Again, many owners say this too when a stadium bill fails, but it wouldn’t have much teeth if Taylor was saying it.

Anyone follow Bloomberg’s purchase of the Baltimore Orioles? What kind of owner he has been?

This makes no sense to me.

At first the big concern was that AROD and Lore wouldn't have the money to pay the tax. Now they add they guy who is worth about 50 times what Glen Taylor is worth who spent billions of dollars in a matter of months for his presidential campaign with reports that they want to set up a local sports station and build a stadium, and now you believe the team is even more likely to be broken up or moved?

Different issues. With ARod and Lore, I look at them and see a pair of guys that want to own a basketball team. I don’t think they have the bucks, but Taylor trusted they would keep the team in Minnesota. I don’t see Bloomberg as a guy who wants to own a basketball team - I see him as a guy who wants to turn a profit. We don’t know yet what percentage of the team Bloomberg will own, or how much leverage he’ll have if he threatened Lore and ARod to remove his money.

Maybe it’s just paranoia, because coincidentally, I’ve been reading a lot about expansion lately, and I heard one opinion that the NBA could open up third teams in LA and NY, and the markets would support them. Maybe that made me paranoid when I hear the freakin’ ex-mayor of New York could be a partial owner, and Lore and ARod previously tried to buy the Mets.

[Mattya]

You know, I changed my mind. We’ll see what share/voice Bloomberg gets, but I think this greatly increases the chances that the team is broken up, and/or moved in the next eight years.

If you look at the Timberwolves as a business, it is the classic example of a target for corporate raiders. It has a motivated seller, who’s willing to sell for less. It has under-performed its market, but has pieces that are valuable. A competent manager can make a quick increase in the company’s value to flip it. And finally, it has guaranteed big payments coming in the future for ownership (upcoming tv deal and huge expansion fees weren’t factored into the sell price).

Both ownership groups will be trying to get an arena, because it boosts the value of the club. The “I don’t know if we need an arena ..” is a line most every owner uses, to try to encourage the public to vote for more of their tax dollars to fund it. But if the public votes it down, expect ARod, Lore and Bloomberg to say, “y’know, I just don’t know how long we can keep the team here financially, and y’know .. Cities X, Y, Z have fans anxious for a team..!” Again, many owners say this too when a stadium bill fails, but it wouldn’t have much teeth if Taylor was saying it.

Anyone follow Bloomberg’s purchase of the Baltimore Orioles? What kind of owner he has been?

This makes no sense to me.

At first the big concern was that AROD and Lore wouldn't have the money to pay the tax. Now they add they guy who is worth about 50 times what Glen Taylor is worth who spent billions of dollars in a matter of months for his presidential campaign with reports that they want to set up a local sports station and build a stadium, and now you believe the team is even more likely to be broken up or moved?

Different issues. With ARod and Lore, I look at them and see a pair of guys that want to own a basketball team. I don’t think they have the bucks, but Taylor trusted they would keep the team in Minnesota. I don’t see Bloomberg as a guy who wants to own a basketball team - I see him as a guy who wants to turn a profit. We don’t know yet what percentage of the team Bloomberg will own, or how much leverage he’ll have if he threatened Lore and ARod to remove his money.

Maybe it’s just paranoia, because coincidentally, I’ve been reading a lot about expansion lately, and I heard one opinion that the NBA could open up third teams in LA and NY, and the markets would support them. Maybe that made me paranoid when I hear the freakin’ ex-mayor of New York could be a partial owner, and Lore and ARod previously tried to buy the Mets.

Yep its paranoia. Why would the NBA allow relocation when they are looking at expansion? Especially when there has been zero talk that I can find that has anyone but Vegas and Seattle being the expansion teams. Why would they be looking at starting local sports stations and even doing exploratory work on a new stadium? Do you realize the risk and cost of building a new stadium especially in New York to compete with The Knicks and Nets? Meanwhile for the same cost these guys could build a stadium, entertainment district, commercial real estate and housing, for the same cost in Minneapolis and not even cut into the increased value they have already seen in Minnesota.

[shrink]

This makes no sense to me.

At first the big concern was that AROD and Lore wouldn't have the money to pay the tax. Now they add they guy who is worth about 50 times what Glen Taylor is worth who spent billions of dollars in a matter of months for his presidential campaign with reports that they want to set up a local sports station and build a stadium, and now you believe the team is even more likely to be broken up or moved?

Different issues. With ARod and Lore, I look at them and see a pair of guys that want to own a basketball team. I don’t think they have the bucks, but Taylor trusted they would keep the team in Minnesota. I don’t see Bloomberg as a guy who wants to own a basketball team - I see him as a guy who wants to turn a profit. We don’t know yet what percentage of the team Bloomberg will own, or how much leverage he’ll have if he threatened Lore and ARod to remove his money.

Maybe it’s just paranoia, because coincidentally, I’ve been reading a lot about expansion lately, and I heard one opinion that the NBA could open up third teams in LA and NY, and the markets would support them. Maybe that made me paranoid when I hear the freakin’ ex-mayor of New York could be a partial owner, and Lore and ARod previously tried to buy the Mets.

Yep it’s paranoia. Why would the NBA allow relocation when they are looking at expansion? Especially when there has been zero talk that I can find that has anyone but Vegas and Seattle being the expansion teams. Why would they be looking at starting local sports stations and even doing exploratory work on a new stadium? Do you realize the risk and cost of building a new stadium especially in New York to compete with The Knicks and Nets? Meanwhile for the same cost these guys could build a stadium, entertainment district, commercial real estate and housing, for the same cost in Minneapolis and not even cut into the increased value they have already seen in Minnesota.

NBA teams are individual companies, that are investments from specific owners. Owners want to protect the league, but they also want to protect the ability to do what they want with their investment, including being free to move a franchise if they can make more money elsewhere. Stopping someone else helps close a door for them down the road.

And your questions that would never happen have all happened in the past!

Why would the NBA allow relocation now? Why did they allow it in the past? Owners move teams in every sports league.
Why would new owners <tell us> they are looking into sports stations and new arenas? They want support from the public, including financial support. New arena talk is usually the catalyst for teams being moved, if they don’t get public funding.
Why would a new team compete in NY, and build an arena where it’s expensive? Don’t you think people said this about BRK?
Why would they let owners leave the lucrative MIN market? Why did they let owners leave SEA, for tiny OKC? Because the owner wanted to. And MIN hasn’t been very lucrative, while I read that NY’s huge population and economic base would be a better revenue generator than Vegas and potentially SEA. Hopefully the public gets behind this new team, but last year they had revenues $100 million less than the average NBA team.

Look, I desperately hope everything goes smoothly, and ownership really is committed to sinking lots of their own money into the team, and keeping it here. But all three of these guys are New York guys - Bloomberg has been the freaking mayor! If they brought moved the team and brought Ant and the 2028 Wolves to be the Bronx, they’d be heroes, and it would instantly get Bloomberg re-elected mayor if he wanted it. I don’t think there is a zero chance of relocation.

[thinktank]

Geez.

Being concerned that the guys who have said they won’t move the team, who Taylor believes or believed, who are looking to setup TV and a new stadium, will relocate the team, while when the NBA is planning expansion, does seems to be paranoia.

[Klomp]

Why would a new team compete in NY, and build an arena where it’s expensive? Don’t you think people said this about BRK?
Why would they let owners leave the lucrative MIN market? Why did they let owners leave SEA, for tiny OKC? Because the owner wanted to. And MIN hasn’t been very lucrative, while I read that NY’s huge population and economic base would be a better revenue generator than Vegas and potentially SEA. Hopefully the public gets behind this new team, but last year they had revenues $100 million less than the average NBA team.

And Zygi Wilf might still move the Vikings to New York where he's from...

I don't know if you've looked at a map recently, but East Rutherford, NJ, is basically right next door to Brooklyn and within the New York City market. It'd be like moving from St. Paul to Minneapolis, not like moving from Minneapolis to New York City....

[shrink]

Why would a new team compete in NY, and build an arena where it’s expensive? Don’t you think people said this about BRK?
Why would they let owners leave the lucrative MIN market? Why did they let owners leave SEA, for tiny OKC? Because the owner wanted to. And MIN hasn’t been very lucrative, while I read that NY’s huge population and economic base would be a better revenue generator than Vegas and potentially SEA. Hopefully the public gets behind this new team, but last year they had revenues $100 million less than the average NBA team.

And Zygi Wilf might still move the Vikings to New York where he's from...

I don't know if you've looked at a map recently, but East Rutherford, NJ, is basically right next door to Brooklyn and within the New York City market. It'd be like moving from St. Paul to Minneapolis, not like moving from Minneapolis to New York City....

The Barclays Center cost $1.2 billion to construct, but Prokharov did it anyway. Why? Because moving across the river allowed the team access to the lucrative New York market. If you are familiar with New Yorkers, they look down on New Jersey as second class, and that was reflected in the New Jersey Nets historically poor revenues. However, the move to Brooklyn brought a bad Nets team $363 mil in revenue (10th) in 2022-23, and the more popular Knicks brought in $503 (#2). For reference, MIN was 29th at $259 mil, #30 was MEM at $258. In 2022-23 MIN had a fun team, a rising star, and made the playoffs, and they had worse revenues than several teams with populations a third the size of MSP. That’s market.

MIN’s historically poor revenues have been blamed on three main reasons. The Timberwolves have a history of losing, and casual fans don’t put faith (or dollars) in the team. Minnesotans have plenty of other sports and entertainment options. The Wolves have the second oldest arena in the NBA. Now compare that to the Knicks. They have the oldest arena, even more entertainment opportunities, and also a long history of losing. Despite that, New Yorkers pay top dollar to fill their arena, and are either #1 or #2 in revenues every year. That’s the power of the New York market.

Hopefully MIN’s recent success can help the team continue to get sell outs (even at the cheaper price than Knicks tickets), and fickle casual MIN fans will support the team longterm. The team definitely needs a new arena to generate revenues. But the Twin Cities will never be the New York market. No chance. And while ARod and Lore probably had to pinkie swear to keep the team in Minnesota to get Glen to sell to them, I doubt they asked Bloomberg to make the same pinkie swear to get his money to complete the sale.

[Mattya]

Different issues. With ARod and Lore, I look at them and see a pair of guys that want to own a basketball team. I don’t think they have the bucks, but Taylor trusted they would keep the team in Minnesota. I don’t see Bloomberg as a guy who wants to own a basketball team - I see him as a guy who wants to turn a profit. We don’t know yet what percentage of the team Bloomberg will own, or how much leverage he’ll have if he threatened Lore and ARod to remove his money.

Maybe it’s just paranoia, because coincidentally, I’ve been reading a lot about expansion lately, and I heard one opinion that the NBA could open up third teams in LA and NY, and the markets would support them. Maybe that made me paranoid when I hear the freakin’ ex-mayor of New York could be a partial owner, and Lore and ARod previously tried to buy the Mets.

Yep it’s paranoia. Why would the NBA allow relocation when they are looking at expansion? Especially when there has been zero talk that I can find that has anyone but Vegas and Seattle being the expansion teams. Why would they be looking at starting local sports stations and even doing exploratory work on a new stadium? Do you realize the risk and cost of building a new stadium especially in New York to compete with The Knicks and Nets? Meanwhile for the same cost these guys could build a stadium, entertainment district, commercial real estate and housing, for the same cost in Minneapolis and not even cut into the increased value they have already seen in Minnesota.

NBA teams are individual companies, that are investments from specific owners. Owners want to protect the league, but they also want to protect the ability to do what they want with their investment, including being free to move a franchise if they can make more money elsewhere. Stopping someone else helps close a door for them down the road.

And your questions that would never happen have all happened in the past!

Why would the NBA allow relocation now? Why did they allow it in the past? Owners move teams in every sports league.
Why would new owners <tell us> they are looking into sports stations and new arenas? They want support from the public, including financial support. New arena talk is usually the catalyst for teams being moved, if they don’t get public funding.
Why would a new team compete in NY, and build an arena where it’s expensive? Don’t you think people said this about BRK?
Why would they let owners leave the lucrative MIN market? Why did they let owners leave SEA, for tiny OKC? Because the owner wanted to. And MIN hasn’t been very lucrative, while I read that NY’s huge population and economic base would be a better revenue generator than Vegas and potentially SEA. Hopefully the public gets behind this new team, but last year they had revenues $100 million less than the average NBA team.

Look, I desperately hope everything goes smoothly, and ownership really is committed to sinking lots of their own money into the team, and keeping it here. But all three of these guys are New York guys - Bloomberg has been the freaking mayor! If they brought moved the team and brought Ant and the 2028 Wolves to be the Bronx, they’d be heroes, and it would instantly get Bloomberg re-elected mayor if he wanted it. I don’t think there is a zero chance of relocation.

All happened in the past? Look at how much context you have to ignore to fit this paranoia. None of these things happened during expansion. Seattle moved because they never built a new arena for years. Moving from East Rutherford NJ to Brooklyn is not the same as moving from Downtown Minneapolis lol.

Unless you can find a single article saying NY is looking for an expansion team I’m gonna hop out of this ridiculousness.

[Mattya]

I knew the Taylor defenders were being silly before hand but this is another level.

[shrink]

All happened in the past? Look at how much context you have to ignore to fit this paranoia. None of these things happened during expansion. Seattle moved because they never built a new arena for years. Moving from East Rutherford NJ to Brooklyn is not the same as moving from Downtown Minneapolis lol.

Unless you can find a single article saying NY is looking for an expansion team I’m gonna hop out of this ridiculousness.

Dude, “expansion” isn’t some magical word that everything that has happened doesn’t matter, and we’re safe forever.

[shrink]

I jumped down the rabbit hole of expansion and relocation, so if anyone else is interested, here are the years for the modern NBA

1977 Relocation: New York Nets to New Jersey
1978 Relocation: Buffalo Braves to San Diego, become Clippers
1979 Relocation: New Orleans Jazz to Utah
1980 Expansion: Dallas Mavericks
1984 Relocation: San Diego Clippers to LA
1985 Relocation: Kansas City Kings to Sacramento
1988 Expansion: Charlotte Hornets
1988 Expansion: Miami Heat
1989 Expansion: Minnesota Timberwolves (Yay)
1989 Expansion: Orlando Magic
1995 Expansion: Vancouver Grizzlies
1995 Expansion: Toronto Raptors
2001 Relocation: Vancouver Grizzlies to Memphis
2002 Relocation: Charlotte Hornets to New Orleans
2004 Expansion: Charlotte Bobcats
2008 Relocation: Seattle SuperSonics to Oklahoma City, become Thunder
2012 Relocation: New Jersey Nets to Brooklyn

Obviously regardless of when it happens, relocation of the Wolves would be bad. We often see teams relocated when expansion talks were underway elsewhere (like now). It almost happened to the Timberwolves In 1994, when we saw Wolfensen and Ratner try to relocate the team to New Orleans, despite the league expanding in 1995. Clearly, having a league about to expand doesn’t protect existing teams from being relocated.