The Andrew Wiggins Thread

[Worm Guts]

It seems that guy was using statistical plus minus, which sounds like it's trying to estimate plus minus from box score numbers.
It's not really a plus minus stat at all.

[C.lupus]

Stat Geek goes in.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/andr ... ron-james/

Saw that article earlier and stopped reading when he said Wiggins has been one of the worst players in basketball this season. Statements and articles like that are exactly why you have to take advanced stats in context and temper conclusions with the old eye test.

[wildvikeswolves]

Stat Geek goes in.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/andr ... ron-james/

Saw that article earlier and stopped reading when he said Wiggins has been one of the worst players in basketball this season. Statements and articles like that are exactly why you have to take advanced stats in context and temper conclusions with the old eye test.

yep i agree. So ridiculous that people are saying that

[theGreatRC]

Just stay away from the General board, most of them obviously haven't seen Wiggins and "stats" like that are just comical.

"One of the worst players in basketball this season" That makes me laugh so hard. You don't put up 5 20+ point games in 1/4 of games played so far this year, not to mention a 29 and 27 point game while being a 19 year old rookie without a PG feeding you easy buckets AND being asked to guard the best perimeter player on the opposing team.

Some people just want to be called idiots

[Worm Guts]

He's been pretty bad to this point, I don't think there's any way around it. He's had good games, but overall it's not what you'd expect.

[GopherIt!]

He has a poor handle and lacks strength. He also has had a poor cast around him.
Bazz is the only player who can take pressure off him. Nobody misses Rubio more than Drew.

[Killboard]

If you put wiggins in a good organized team you have helluva player. The problem is that he is struggling in the team as any other experienced player in the roster. Besides some off games he has been a impact player IN the team. And put all the things together against the cavs was a pretty good sign of be a player in what you can count when it matter most. And remember drew is two and half years younger than bazz, and how much improvement in one offseason a young player can make.

[PZiv]

If you put wiggins in a good organized team you have helluva player. The problem is that he is struggling in the team as any other experienced player in the roster. Besides some off games he has been a impact player IN the team. And put all the things together against the cavs was a pretty good sign of be a player in what you can count when it matter most. And remember drew is two and half years younger than bazz, and how much improvement in one offseason a young player can make.

Yeah, I come to think of it like this. He is younger than me for 3 years and he is putting 28 points on LeBron's team. And yet people won't cut him some slack and talk about him being a "bust" "worst roy ever" and other crap.

[Killboard]

And he needs work on his handling a lot, but the guy probably still growing and there are few 6'8-6'9 player who can drive to the basket at nba level at any age, forgive him for not be there his first year.
But his shoot mechanics looks polished (FT% is a big area of improvement), as his defense (he will need to be more contact friendly to be great ) and he has showed some glimpses of have a good vision when attract double team defense, something really hard to learn for even veteran players.

[shangrila]

He's been pretty bad to this point, I don't think there's any way around it. He's had good games, but overall it's not what you'd expect.

Really?

I mean, I don't want to single you out, but what did people expect from Wiggins? We all knew he was raw, both the stats and the eye test said as much pre-draft. I don't understand why anyone would be surprised he's not averaging 20 and 5 out the gate.

[southern wolf]

He's been pretty bad to this point, I don't think there's any way around it. He's had good games, but overall it's not what you'd expect.

Really?

I mean, I don't want to single you out, but what did people expect from Wiggins? We all knew he was raw, both the stats and the eye test said as much pre-draft. I don't understand why anyone would be surprised he's not averaging 20 and 5 out the gate.

People always have big expectations when it comes to number one picks. I don't think he's been bad, he's had over five 20 point games and his d has been pretty impressive. He's just struggling to find some consistency.

[Worm Guts]

He's been pretty bad to this point, I don't think there's any way around it. He's had good games, but overall it's not what you'd expect.

Really?

I mean, I don't want to single you out, but what did people expect from Wiggins? We all knew he was raw, both the stats and the eye test said as much pre-draft. I don't understand why anyone would be surprised he's not averaging 20 and 5 out the gate.

He has a 9.8 PER and a .474 TS. I have a hard time finding any quality players who had similar numbers as a rookie. I don't expect him to dominate, I just want him to not be an outlier.

[slinky]

He's been pretty bad to this point, I don't think there's any way around it. He's had good games, but overall it's not what you'd expect.

Really?

I mean, I don't want to single you out, but what did people expect from Wiggins? We all knew he was raw, both the stats and the eye test said as much pre-draft. I don't understand why anyone would be surprised he's not averaging 20 and 5 out the gate.

He has a 9.8 PER and a .474 TS. I have a hard time finding any quality players who had similar numbers as a rookie. I don't expect him to dominate, I just want him to not be an outlier.

Agreed. For comparison sake, Anthony Bennett has a PER of 12.3 this season. (Not sure if this proves the uselessness of a small sample size with PER or where Wiggins is at right now. ) I am fine with Wiggins' lack of shooting if he influences the game in other ways. But he isn't doing that consistently yet.

Defense he certainly has held his own, but its obviously very subjective....he's giving up a lot of points, but is that due to who he is guarding or how he is playing? My guess is somewhere in between, but its easy to give his defense a pass based on who he plays against.

For me, I look at something like rebounding. For me its the hustle statistic for big guys. With his athleticsm, he should be pulling down more boards than he is. He has a worse rebounding rate than Thad, Baz, Buddinger, and Robbie Hummel. In the 29 games, he has had 3 or fewer rebounds in 14 games. I don't need Dennis Rodman, but there are 39 'qualified guards' with a better rebound rate than Wiggins. 59 better 'qualified SF's' on defensive board rate...Not good given how many minutes he plays per game.

Now of course that's just fun with statistics, most, like me, only use them when they support your position, or ignore them, like me, when they don't. But most of the numbers point to us being a better team without Wiggins on the floor. The eye test, either shows differently, or subjectively our eyes would rather watch Wiggins work through his struggles, than watch Chase Budinger meander around screens and miss 15 footers. The Timberwolves are easily more watchable for me, when Wiggins is on the floor.

The best thing about the first 29 games, is that he hasn't been hurt yet, so he can continue to work through these rookie struggles.

[Feilong]

I could watch this all day.

[Crazy-Canuck]

I could watch this all day.

Damn, my first thought was an alley oop version of vc on weis (obviously not as good, but that was the first thing that popped into my head).

[Sothron]

Wiggins is playing better, big shock, 19 year old kid needs seasoning and time. We have something special in that kid.

[Quentin]

I've been perusing this site and reading some posters thoughts on Wiggins who are fans of other teams. It is hilarious. The only thing they look at are stats. There are really only a few stats that you can look at with this team that will tell you how the player is doing. We suck donkey balls right now because we're relying on 2 rookies and 2 sophomores in our starting lineup. Couple that with one of the worst PF's I've seen in Thad Young and it's a recipe for stat disaster.

Wiggins 'stats' would be looking better if Rubio had stayed healthy. But for those of us who have seen every game, we know he's going to be something great for us.

[Note30]

I think since that Cleveland game, Wiggins is starting to shape out pretty well. That was his breakout game IMO, and what he did to the Kings the other night might be a sign of things to come. Personally I think he could start averaging up to 18 pts a game in late March and beginning of April. He'll probably round out his rookie career at 15 - 16 pts per game 4-5 rebounds 1-2 assists. Thats not bad at all.

[Klomp]

The thing I love about how Flip is using Wiggins is that he's getting him in the post. As he bulks up, his post game is just going to be that much harder to defend. A post game can help wings become more well-rounded offensively. Many of the greatest wings were good in the post.

[theGreatRC]

The thing I love about how Flip is using Wiggins is that he's getting him in the post. As he bulks up, his post game is just going to be that much harder to defend. A post game can help wings become more well-rounded offensively. Many of the greatest wings were good in the post.

In a few years, his post up game will be DEADLY. How many rookies posted up grown men in their rookie seasons, a 19 year old rookie at that?