Time for Saunders to go?

[AbeVigodaLive]

Was last night's game against Orlando Rosas' fault?

I don't really like this calling out other posters bit, especially when Domejandro has a point, but I will say what has made question Saunders is more the games like last night than the overall bad record. Specifically the OKC and Sacramento games from last year. There have been games where we have had no business losing that we have lost, and that's more of a Saunders issue.

That lost last night was 100% on Ryan Saunders.

There’s no way in hell you can lose a 10 pt lead with 3 mins to go. He double tripled down on small ball again last night going 4 guards and Naz to try snd close the game which helped the Magic and Vuc get offensive rebounds and second chance shots to beat us last night.

Not calling timeout when Vanderbilt got the rebound is classic Saunders not knowing what the hell is going on. You got two timeouts and 4 seconds left in the game. Call a timeout!

I don't want to watch a league where coaches standing on the sidelines have that much clout over W/Ls.

Saunders sucked.
So did the max contract PG who went 0 - 3 fg on bad shots with 2 TOs after coming into the game with 4 minutes left... up by 10.
So did the new $15M SG who overdribbled and took an ill-advised shot.
So did the young Vanderbilt who bricked two free throws.
So did Okogie who missed an open three and turned it over in the final 3 minutes.
So did Anthony Edwards who took 14 shots in 23 minutes... made only 3... and didn't record an assist or rebound.
And so did Rosas whose last two draft picks (#1 and #6) have flamed out this season more than any other Timberwolves player... and more than almost every other player in the league.

So absolutes and hyperbole like 100% is easy to dismiss when it's not close to being entirely accurate.

Saunders is NOT a good coach. But to blame him for this mess is what Timberwolves fans have been doing for decades. Literally. And how's that turned out? It's a players league. I know that makes the Wolves current plight tougher to swallow... but it's true.

[UnFadeable21]

I don't really like this calling out other posters bit, especially when Domejandro has a point, but I will say what has made question Saunders is more the games like last night than the overall bad record. Specifically the OKC and Sacramento games from last year. There have been games where we have had no business losing that we have lost, and that's more of a Saunders issue.

That lost last night was 100% on Ryan Saunders.

There’s no way in hell you can lose a 10 pt lead with 3 mins to go. He double tripled down on small ball again last night going 4 guards and Naz to try snd close the game which helped the Magic and Vuc get offensive rebounds and second chance shots to beat us last night.

Not calling timeout when Vanderbilt got the rebound is classic Saunders not knowing what the hell is going on. You got two timeouts and 4 seconds left in the game. Call a timeout!

I don't want to watch a league where coaches standing on the sidelines have that much clout over W/Ls.

Saunders sucked.
So did the max contract PG who went 0 - 3 fg on bad shots with 2 TOs after coming into the game with 4 minutes left... up by 10.
So did the new $15M SG who overdribbled and took an ill-advised shot.
So did the young Vanderbilt who bricked two free throws.
So did Okogie who missed an open three and turned it over in the final 3 minutes.
So did Anthony Edwards who took 14 shots in 23 minutes... made only 3... and didn't record an assist or rebound.
And so did Rosas whose last two draft picks (#1 and #6) have flamed out this season more than any other Timberwolves player... and more than almost every other player in the league.

So absolutes and hyperbole like 100% is easy to dismiss when it's not close to being entirely accurate.

Saunders is NOT a good coach. But to blame him for this mess is what Timberwolves fans have been doing for decades. Literally. And how's that turned out? It's a players league. I know that makes the Wolves current plight tougher to swallow... but it's true.

The Minnesota Timberwolves were out rebounded in the fourth quarter 16 to 8 last night. Orlando had 6 offensive rebounds and Minnesota had 7 defensive rebounds.

That’s coaching!

Ryan Double triple down on small ball getting abused in the post 3 games in a row and still hasn’t learned.

[Klomp]

The Minnesota Timberwolves were out rebounded in the fourth quarter 16 to 8 last night. Orlando had 6 offensive rebounds and Minnesota had 7 defensive rebounds.

That’s coaching!

Wow, Nikola Vucevic must be an elite NBA coach then!

[UnFadeable21]

The Minnesota Timberwolves were out rebounded in the fourth quarter 16 to 8 last night. Orlando had 6 offensive rebounds and Minnesota had 7 defensive rebounds.

That’s coaching!

Wow, Nikola Vucevic must be an elite NBA coach then!

Wolves up 10 and we decide to go 4 guards and Naz Reid with 5 mins to go

Jmac 5’11
DLo 6’4
Beas 6’4
Okogie 6’4
Naz 6’9

Magic go

Ross 6’6
Fournier 6’6
Gordon 6’9
Birch 6’9
Vuc 6’11

That’s basic basketball mismatch that any coach would realize is going to get killed on the glass.

[Baseline81]

I don't want to watch a league where coaches standing on the sidelines have that much clout over W/Ls.

Saunders sucked.
So did the max contract PG who went 0 - 3 fg on bad shots with 2 TOs after coming into the game with 4 minutes left... up by 10.
So did the new $15M SG who overdribbled and took an ill-advised shot.
So did the young Vanderbilt who bricked two free throws.
So did Okogie who missed an open three and turned it over in the final 3 minutes.
So did Anthony Edwards who took 14 shots in 23 minutes... made only 3... and didn't record an assist or rebound.
And so did Rosas whose last two draft picks (#1 and #6) have flamed out this season more than any other Timberwolves player... and more than almost every other player in the league.

So absolutes and hyperbole like 100% is easy to dismiss when it's not close to being entirely accurate.

Saunders is NOT a good coach. But to blame him for this mess is what Timberwolves fans have been doing for decades. Literally. And how's that turned out? It's a players league. I know that makes the Wolves current plight tougher to swallow... but it's true.

Again, Saunders isn't the ONLY problem, but he is ONE of the problems. With you admitting he's not a good coach (see underline), why should he be allowed to remain? To continue to tank the season?

You put the blame on the players, but remember, why is it certain players flounder on one team but not others? Do you not think a coach factors into things? A system or scheme along with the rotations and adjustments throughout a game all fall on the responsibility of the head coach.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I don't want to watch a league where coaches standing on the sidelines have that much clout over W/Ls.

Saunders sucked.
So did the max contract PG who went 0 - 3 fg on bad shots with 2 TOs after coming into the game with 4 minutes left... up by 10.
So did the new $15M SG who overdribbled and took an ill-advised shot.
So did the young Vanderbilt who bricked two free throws.
So did Okogie who missed an open three and turned it over in the final 3 minutes.
So did Anthony Edwards who took 14 shots in 23 minutes... made only 3... and didn't record an assist or rebound.
And so did Rosas whose last two draft picks (#1 and #6) have flamed out this season more than any other Timberwolves player... and more than almost every other player in the league.

So absolutes and hyperbole like 100% is easy to dismiss when it's not close to being entirely accurate.

Saunders is NOT a good coach. But to blame him for this mess is what Timberwolves fans have been doing for decades. Literally. And how's that turned out? It's a players league. I know that makes the Wolves current plight tougher to swallow... but it's true.

Again, Saunders isn't the ONLY problem, but he is ONE of the problems. With you admitting he's not a good coach (see underline), why should he be allowed to remain? To continue to tank the season?

You put the blame on the players, but remember, why is it certain players flounder on one team but not others? Do you not think a coach factors into things? A system or scheme along with the rotations and adjustments throughout a game all fall on the responsibility of the head coach.

I've stated that "Saunders sucked"... "Saunders is NOT a good coach"... and "there are 773 reasons why Saunders sucks"...

But the value of an NBA head coach just doesn't have THAT much importance compared to skilled and talented and smart players. NBA history has proven this to be true. Every single time.

[Domejandro]

I honestly am ready for Saunders to get fired so you all can see that this is a talent problem, not a coaching one. I literally warned people about this before the season, and that was BEFORE our superstar and best defensive player got injured.

Was last night's game against Orlando Rosas' fault?

10:53 p.m. (Central) last night.

1. Anthony Edwards hurts Minnesota badly while on the court.
2. Coach Saunders' consistent failure to call timeouts down the stretch of the game is killing the team.
3. The two guard line-up lost Minnesota the game.

I don't know how you can look at this loss and not blame Ryan Saunders.

It is possible to be nuanced on these sort of topics.

[UnFadeable21]

On the new Dane Moore Podcast, he admitted that it’s been hard for him and local media to be critical on Ryan Saunders because Ryan is such a good human being snd treats them much better than Thibs did.

[UnFadeable21]

His direct quote was, “I’ve given Ryan more rope than he deserves because he treated me like a human being. He called me when I lost my job at zone coverage and we talked about why we both deserved our jobs in the NBA.”

[UnFadeable21]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[thinktank]

It IS a player’s league, guys.

BUT, 98% of coaches are better than Ryan, and those coaches don’t shoot their players in the foot during games.

Saunders CANNOT get out of the way of his players WINNING GAMES.

That’s what happened last night.

That’s what happened in whatever game he subbed Rubio in for DLo and everything went to **** (ATL?).

He’s lost multiple games for us already, and in a shortened season.

You can’t let him continue to coach if we’re honestly trying to win games.

[Chello1]

I don't want to watch a league where coaches standing on the sidelines have that much clout over W/Ls.

Saunders sucked.
So did the max contract PG who went 0 - 3 fg on bad shots with 2 TOs after coming into the game with 4 minutes left... up by 10.
So did the new $15M SG who overdribbled and took an ill-advised shot.
So did the young Vanderbilt who bricked two free throws.
So did Okogie who missed an open three and turned it over in the final 3 minutes.
So did Anthony Edwards who took 14 shots in 23 minutes... made only 3... and didn't record an assist or rebound.
And so did Rosas whose last two draft picks (#1 and #6) have flamed out this season more than any other Timberwolves player... and more than almost every other player in the league.

So absolutes and hyperbole like 100% is easy to dismiss when it's not close to being entirely accurate.

Saunders is NOT a good coach. But to blame him for this mess is what Timberwolves fans have been doing for decades. Literally. And how's that turned out? It's a players league. I know that makes the Wolves current plight tougher to swallow... but it's true.

Again, Saunders isn't the ONLY problem, but he is ONE of the problems. With you admitting he's not a good coach (see underline), why should he be allowed to remain? To continue to tank the season?

You put the blame on the players, but remember, why is it certain players flounder on one team but not others? Do you not think a coach factors into things? A system or scheme along with the rotations and adjustments throughout a game all fall on the responsibility of the head coach.

I've stated that "Saunders sucked"... "Saunders is NOT a good coach"... and "there are 773 reasons why Saunders sucks"...

Are you kidding me! Keep deluding yourself on that point all you want. A good coach helps his team win an extra 10-20 games a year with timeouts in the right place, lineup changes done correctly and a million other things our guy doesn't get. You can read his rotations and sub patterns like a dime novel. If I can do that imagine what the elite coaches in the NBA are doing. Just stop defending him and Rosas.... Time to gut it and start over- they have screwed up the Towns run and need to trade him while his price is at it's highest and a once in a decade draft is staring this franchise in the face. We need to hire a GM like the Wild did. Build a team on hard work and defense first.

But the value of an NBA head coach just doesn't have THAT much importance compared to skilled and talented and smart players. NBA history has proven this to be true. Every single time.

[Chello1]

I don't want to watch a league where coaches standing on the sidelines have that much clout over W/Ls.

Saunders sucked.
So did the max contract PG who went 0 - 3 fg on bad shots with 2 TOs after coming into the game with 4 minutes left... up by 10.
So did the new $15M SG who overdribbled and took an ill-advised shot.
So did the young Vanderbilt who bricked two free throws.
So did Okogie who missed an open three and turned it over in the final 3 minutes.
So did Anthony Edwards who took 14 shots in 23 minutes... made only 3... and didn't record an assist or rebound.
And so did Rosas whose last two draft picks (#1 and #6) have flamed out this season more than any other Timberwolves player... and more than almost every other player in the league.

So absolutes and hyperbole like 100% is easy to dismiss when it's not close to being entirely accurate.

Saunders is NOT a good coach. But to blame him for this mess is what Timberwolves fans have been doing for decades. Literally. And how's that turned out? It's a players league. I know that makes the Wolves current plight tougher to swallow... but it's true.

Again, Saunders isn't the ONLY problem, but he is ONE of the problems. With you admitting he's not a good coach (see underline), why should he be allowed to remain? To continue to tank the season?

You put the blame on the players, but remember, why is it certain players flounder on one team but not others? Do you not think a coach factors into things? A system or scheme along with the rotations and adjustments throughout a game all fall on the responsibility of the head coach.

I've stated that "Saunders sucked"... "Saunders is NOT a good coach"... and "there are 773 reasons why Saunders sucks"...


Are you kidding me! Keep deluding yourself on that point all you want. A good coach helps his team win an extra 10-20 games a year with timeouts in the right place, lineup changes done correctly and a million other things our guy doesn't get. You can read his rotations and sub patterns like a dime novel. If I can do that imagine what the elite coaches in the NBA are doing. Just stop defending him and Rosas.... Time to gut it and start over- they have screwed up the Towns run and need to trade him while his price is at it's highest and a once in a decade draft is staring this franchise in the face. We need to hire a GM like the Wild did. Build a team on hard work and defense first.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Again, Saunders isn't the ONLY problem, but he is ONE of the problems. With you admitting he's not a good coach (see underline), why should he be allowed to remain? To continue to tank the season?

You put the blame on the players, but remember, why is it certain players flounder on one team but not others? Do you not think a coach factors into things? A system or scheme along with the rotations and adjustments throughout a game all fall on the responsibility of the head coach.

I've stated that "Saunders sucked"... "Saunders is NOT a good coach"... and "there are 773 reasons why Saunders sucks"...


Are you kidding me! Keep deluding yourself on that point all you want. A good coach helps his team win an extra 10-20 games a year with timeouts in the right place, lineup changes done correctly and a million other things our guy doesn't get. You can read his rotations and sub patterns like a dime novel. If I can do that imagine what the elite coaches in the NBA are doing. Just stop defending him and Rosas.... Time to gut it and start over- they have screwed up the Towns run and need to trade him while his price is at it's highest and a once in a decade draft is staring this franchise in the face. We need to hire a GM like the Wild did. Build a team on hard work and defense first.

No. I simply cannot disagree with you more on this point.

Coaches are simply not as valuable as the best players. This is such a fundamental difference of opinion in how we see the NBA that it's not worth discussing further.

[WolfAddict]

Sure, there are a lot of different things wrong with the franchise at the moment, and don't disagree with any of the points raised, but the title of this thread is "Time for Saunders to go?" so it's not disingenuous to want to discuss just that one aspect of our **** pile of a team.

[thinktank]

Of course the best players make a bigger difference than a coach.

An engine is more integral to a car than perfect tires but if the tires are ****, you replace the tires.

Same with the parts of a team, which include a coach.

[karch34]

On the new Dane Moore Podcast, he admitted that it’s been hard for him and local media to be critical on Ryan Saunders because Ryan is such a good human being snd treats them much better than Thibs did.

Think it was after he pointed to OKC loss last year as possible reason why he didn't take the timeout when Vanderbilt got rebound since they weren't able to inbound last year in one game one time. Did mention Beasley being out of position and not covering Anthony for game winning shot on FT miss should've been time out too but said reason why was he might ice his own player shooting FT.

I can appreciate the insight as far as why and why not in decisions but when decision after decision is wrong one you have to question.

All on Ryan? No. Think we know plenty of blame to go around. But teams without their star player or without a star player do win games at a higher clip than we are without KAT. A lot of games are won on the margins with small details, especially for teams that dont have LeBron, KD, etc. and that's not anything we've seen done in the last 3 years.

[Baseline81]

Over on Canis Hoopus, Eric in Madison sums it up:

Which is where Saunders comes in. He appears completely overwhelmed to me, and does not have the wherewithal to demand more than he’s getting. It can be difficult to judge coaching and separate it from talent, but some obvious things that are a coach’s job:

Getting quality effort from his players
Putting players in positions to succeed
Making the right tactical decisions

It’s hard to argue he’s doing any of these things effectively. He’s publicly admitted he isn’t getting the effort
His offense is not conducive to the players he has
His halftime adjustments, to the extent there are any, have failed as the Wolves are the worst 3rd quarter team in the league.

[IceManBK1]

His rotation is horrible.. Either all starters or all bench lineups... Our bench can't even be compared to other teams benches. Going small vs Philly is a joke. You just enable simmons to guard dlo. If we have a competent PF simmons would be guarding him instead.

[wolves_89]

How many games do the Wolves have to collapse in a spectacularly bad fashion before Saunders gets the boot?