Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST)

[old school 34]

Assuming we don't get in on a Simmons deal &/or that doesn't happen until much deeper into the season.

I'd still like one more along the margins deal where we add size....ideally a Layman for size on small enough deal that allows us if needed to fill that 15th roster spot on a minimum deal without going over lux...

Like....Layman to Dallas for Moses Brown....probably have to give up a 2nd to boot....but something along those lines could be very helpful over the course of a season.

Other potential targets but don't create quite the same financial room:

Brandon Clarke (Mem) or Jalen Smith (Phx)

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[Slim Tubby]

Who here like me would strongly consider Isaac?

Maybe after a 8-12 game sample size healthy return.

Prince + Okogie or Layman + Bolmaro + 1sts and Swaps

FOR

Isaac + Filler

No way do Wolves entertain including McDaniels.

You keep talking about Isaac Healthy. Why do you do this. He will never achieve his preinjury potential. He is likely out of the league within a couple years. If he does against all odds come back strong and healthy why would the Magic want to trade him of all people?

This. If he regains his all-nba defensive form, Orlando isn’t moving him. That was the beauty of Simmons, he was a younger, healthy, star-ish PF that was available and seemingly willing to come here.

Something will hopefully shake loose in the first half of the season, because this team is going no where with Vanderbilt as the starting PF.

If we enter the season with Vanderbilt as our starting PF, Rosas should be terminated on principle alone...and I like Rosas. I'm not trying to be harsh on Vanderbilt but he's nowhere near starting material on a wining team.

[Slim Tubby]

Off topic...is there an "And 1" feature on the Mobile App? If there is, I can't locate it anywhere but nobody will ever confuse me with a technological savant.

[KGdaBom]

You keep talking about Isaac Healthy. Why do you do this. He will never achieve his preinjury potential. He is likely out of the league within a couple years. If he does against all odds come back strong and healthy why would the Magic want to trade him of all people?

This. If he regains his all-nba defensive form, Orlando isn’t moving him. That was the beauty of Simmons, he was a younger, healthy, star-ish PF that was available and seemingly willing to come here.

Something will hopefully shake loose in the first half of the season, because this team is going no where with Vanderbilt as the starting PF.

Didn’t know we had not one but two of Isaac’s doctors here.

Simmons was a walking injury concern at one point too. Isaac, sure, has more. Good thing he does have some because he wouldn’t be remotely close to available otherwise.

So the question is, is he worth the risk at the price?

And before the Wolves dismiss as you two have (your right as your opinion) Wolves would do their homework. Are the injuries reoccurring (same injury)? Not all injuries are the same, what are the circumstances? Do our medical staff give him a thumbs up. How does he look in that 8-15 game sample size? What kind of injury clauses are in his contract?

I'm 62 and have been following the NBA since 1970. I've just seen too many similar cases to Isaac to think he has more than a minuscule chance at ever being special again. I don't have any research data other than my own experience to go on. I would guess the Timberwolves share my opinion on him. Once again just what I believe.

[shrink]

So the question is, is he worth the risk at the price?

And before the Wolves dismiss as you two have (your right as your opinion) Wolves would do their homework. Are the injuries reoccurring (same injury)? Not all injuries are the same, what are the circumstances? Do our medical staff give him a thumbs up. How does he look in that 8-15 game sample size? What kind of injury clauses are in his contract?

I'm 62 and have been following the NBA since 1970. I've just seen too many similar cases to Isaac to think he has more than a minuscule chance at ever being special again. I don't have any research data other than my own experience to go on. I would guess the Timberwolves share my opinion on him. Once again just what I believe.

Good points, both of you. The truth is, we don’t know - we don’t have that information. And it’s possible even with the information, the doctors won’t be able to make a prediction.

The only thing we do know is that the Magic asked for, and Isaac agreed to, an Exhibit 3 that would negate or reduce his salary/contract if the knee issues after the ACL tear remain a problem. This is a huge, huge, warning sign - Exhibit 3’s aren’t common. But that doesn’t mean it’s not something he couldn’t overcome. It was clearly an issue when they agreed to the extension.

[karch34]

So the question is, is he worth the risk at the price?

And before the Wolves dismiss as you two have (your right as your opinion) Wolves would do their homework. Are the injuries reoccurring (same injury)? Not all injuries are the same, what are the circumstances? Do our medical staff give him a thumbs up. How does he look in that 8-15 game sample size? What kind of injury clauses are in his contract?

I'm 62 and have been following the NBA since 1970. I've just seen too many similar cases to Isaac to think he has more than a minuscule chance at ever being special again. I don't have any research data other than my own experience to go on. I would guess the Timberwolves share my opinion on him. Once again just what I believe.

Good points, both of you. The truth is, we don’t know - we don’t have that information. And it’s possible even with the information, the doctors won’t be able to make a prediction.

The only thing we do know is that the Magic asked for, and Isaac agreed to, an Exhibit 3 that would negate or reduce his salary/contract if the knee issues after the ACL tear remain a problem. This is a huge, huge, warning sign - Exhibit 3’s aren’t common. But that doesn’t mean it’s not something he couldn’t overcome. It was clearly an issue when they agreed to the extension.

Great pull on the contract. I have this crazy vision of Shrink finally moving to AZ and it’s a brunch with me, him, and KGdaBom.

[shrink]

Trade Board pegs Chris Bouchard’s value at a pair of 2nds, and I think I’d go for that.

MIN GETS: Bouchard
TOR GETS: 2022 MIN 2nd, 2022 DEN air PHI 2nd, Okogie, Layman

Why for TOR? The Raptors traded Kyle Lowry and got Precious Achiuwa from MIA, and liked what they saw of Khem Birch at the end of last season and signed him to a three year deal. They already have Siakim and really like Scottie Barnes, who they drafted #4. It’s unlikely they have a role left for the expiring Bouchard after some good play last season, so they cash out.

Why for MIN? Bouchard can be either our starting or back up PF, and he can play a little back up center in a pinch. He can defend the rim and he has three point ability. This trade opens a roster spot and reduces our payroll by about $1 mil.

[Klomp]

The only thing we do know is that the Magic asked for, and Isaac agreed to, an Exhibit 3 that would negate or reduce his salary/contract if the knee issues after the ACL tear remain a problem. This is a huge, huge, warning sign - Exhibit 3’s aren’t common. But that doesn’t mean it’s not something he couldn’t overcome. It was clearly an issue when they agreed to the extension.

This is like what Embiid had in his original extension, correct?

[shrink]

The only thing we do know is that the Magic asked for, and Isaac agreed to, an Exhibit 3 that would negate or reduce his salary/contract if the knee issues after the ACL tear remain a problem. This is a huge, huge, warning sign - Exhibit 3’s aren’t common. But that doesn’t mean it’s not something he couldn’t overcome. It was clearly an issue when they agreed to the extension.

This is like what Embiid had in his original extension, correct?

Exactly! And it was a big deal when Embiid accepted it as well. Supposedly, insiders call it the “most complicated Exhibit 3 ever made!”

I am a big fan of the “idea” of Jonathan Isaac, and I have been for a while. None of us really know how great a risk he represents, but in the past, I have always been up for a high risk, high upside player for MIN. It always felt like we needed to make that big swing to catch up.

Now, I’m not so sure. I really like the possible upside of our current team with Edwards and JMac, but Towns, Russell and the rest of our young players could improve as well. I don’t think I felt like that before.

[Krapinsky]

Assuming we don't get in on a Simmons deal &/or that doesn't happen until much deeper into the season.

I'd still like one more along the margins deal where we add size....ideally a Layman for size on small enough deal that allows us if needed to fill that 15th roster spot on a minimum deal without going over lux...

Like....Layman to Dallas for Moses Brown....probably have to give up a 2nd to boot....but something along those lines could be very helpful over the course of a season.

Other potential targets but don't create quite the same financial room:

Brandon Clarke (Mem) or Jalen Smith (Phx)

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

Yes, this. We need size and rebounding. Naz, Jaden, Prince, Layman are all poor rebounders.

[karch34]

Trade Board pegs Chris Bouchard’s value at a pair of 2nds, and I think I’d go for that.

MIN GETS: Bouchard
TOR GETS: 2022 MIN 2nd, 2022 DEN air PHI 2nd, Okogie, Layman

Why for TOR? The Raptors traded Kyle Lowry and got Precious Achiuwa from MIA, and liked what they saw of Khem Birch at the end of last season and signed him to a three year deal. They already have Siakim and really like Scottie Barnes, who they drafted #4. It’s unlikely they have a role left for the expiring Bouchard after some good play last season, so they cash out.

Why for MIN? Bouchard can be either our starting or back up PF, and he can play a little back up center in a pinch. He can defend the rim and he has three point ability. This trade opens a roster spot and reduces our payroll by about $1 mil.

I’d do that trade. Balances roster very nicely for us.

[KGdaBom]

I'm 62 and have been following the NBA since 1970. I've just seen too many similar cases to Isaac to think he has more than a minuscule chance at ever being special again. I don't have any research data other than my own experience to go on. I would guess the Timberwolves share my opinion on him. Once again just what I believe.

Good points, both of you. The truth is, we don’t know - we don’t have that information. And it’s possible even with the information, the doctors won’t be able to make a prediction.

The only thing we do know is that the Magic asked for, and Isaac agreed to, an Exhibit 3 that would negate or reduce his salary/contract if the knee issues after the ACL tear remain a problem. This is a huge, huge, warning sign - Exhibit 3’s aren’t common. But that doesn’t mean it’s not something he couldn’t overcome. It was clearly an issue when they agreed to the extension.

Great pull on the contract. I have this crazy vision of Shrink finally moving to AZ and it’s a brunch with me, him, and KGdaBom.

Definitely need to do that Brunch in the Grand Canyon National park.
https://www.grandcanyonlodges.com/dine/el-tovar-dining-room-and-lounge/

[old school 34]

Trade Board pegs Chris Bouchard’s value at a pair of 2nds, and I think I’d go for that.

MIN GETS: Bouchard
TOR GETS: 2022 MIN 2nd, 2022 DEN air PHI 2nd, Okogie, Layman

Why for TOR? The Raptors traded Kyle Lowry and got Precious Achiuwa from MIA, and liked what they saw of Khem Birch at the end of last season and signed him to a three year deal. They already have Siakim and really like Scottie Barnes, who they drafted #4. It’s unlikely they have a role left for the expiring Bouchard after some good play last season, so they cash out.

Why for MIN? Bouchard can be either our starting or back up PF, and he can play a little back up center in a pinch. He can defend the rim and he has three point ability. This trade opens a roster spot and reduces our payroll by about $1 mil.

I’d do that trade. Balances roster very nicely for us.

I like the thought along these lines, but we need to save closer to 1.5 on a 2 for 1 deal....to be able to replace that roster spot with a minimum while staying under the lux, no?

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[Nick K]

This. If he regains his all-nba defensive form, Orlando isn’t moving him. That was the beauty of Simmons, he was a younger, healthy, star-ish PF that was available and seemingly willing to come here.

Something will hopefully shake loose in the first half of the season, because this team is going no where with Vanderbilt as the starting PF.

Didn’t know we had not one but two of Isaac’s doctors here.

Simmons was a walking injury concern at one point too. Isaac, sure, has more. Good thing he does have some because he wouldn’t be remotely close to available otherwise.

So the question is, is he worth the risk at the price?

And before the Wolves dismiss as you two have (your right as your opinion) Wolves would do their homework. Are the injuries reoccurring (same injury)? Not all injuries are the same, what are the circumstances? Do our medical staff give him a thumbs up. How does he look in that 8-15 game sample size? What kind of injury clauses are in his contract?

I'm 62 and have been following the NBA since 1970. I've just seen too many similar cases to Isaac to think he has more than a minuscule chance at ever being special again. I don't have any research data other than my own experience to go on. I would guess the Timberwolves share my opinion on him. Once again just what I believe.

. I'm 66 and have been following the game since 1967 watching Sundays on CBS with Wilt vs Bill Russell. Not to mention Lew Alcindor at UCLA. So that tops you kgdabom! Just kidding of course!

In my experience I tend to agree. I loved Isaac on draft day but he's never lived up to my expectations even when healthy. The ACL is bad enough but the real concern is the torn meniscus. Many players are never the same after that injury. At 17.5 mil per for 4 more years I'd stay away from him.

[KGdaBom]

Didn’t know we had not one but two of Isaac’s doctors here.

Simmons was a walking injury concern at one point too. Isaac, sure, has more. Good thing he does have some because he wouldn’t be remotely close to available otherwise.

So the question is, is he worth the risk at the price?

And before the Wolves dismiss as you two have (your right as your opinion) Wolves would do their homework. Are the injuries reoccurring (same injury)? Not all injuries are the same, what are the circumstances? Do our medical staff give him a thumbs up. How does he look in that 8-15 game sample size? What kind of injury clauses are in his contract?

I'm 62 and have been following the NBA since 1970. I've just seen too many similar cases to Isaac to think he has more than a minuscule chance at ever being special again. I don't have any research data other than my own experience to go on. I would guess the Timberwolves share my opinion on him. Once again just what I believe.

. I'm 66 and have been following the game since 1967 watching Sundays on CBS with Wilt vs Bill Russell. Not to mention Lew Alcindor at UCLA. So that tops you kgdabom! Just kidding of course!

In my experience I tend to agree. I loved Isaac on draft day but he's never lived up to my expectations even when healthy. The ACL is bad enough but the real concern is the torn meniscus. Many players are never the same after that injury. At 17.5 mil per for 4 more years I'd stay away from him.

We are among the few and the proud who got to see those guys.

Our experience tells us that Isaac isn't going to fully recover.

[Wolveswin]

I'm 62 and have been following the NBA since 1970. I've just seen too many similar cases to Isaac to think he has more than a minuscule chance at ever being special again. I don't have any research data other than my own experience to go on. I would guess the Timberwolves share my opinion on him. Once again just what I believe.

. I'm 66 and have been following the game since 1967 watching Sundays on CBS with Wilt vs Bill Russell. Not to mention Lew Alcindor at UCLA. So that tops you kgdabom! Just kidding of course!

In my experience I tend to agree. I loved Isaac on draft day but he's never lived up to my expectations even when healthy. The ACL is bad enough but the real concern is the torn meniscus. Many players are never the same after that injury. At 17.5 mil per for 4 more years I'd stay away from him.

We are among the few and the proud who got to see those guys.

Our experience tells us that Isaac isn't going to fully recover.

Your experience doesn’t tell you, it conditions you. And it doesn’t mean anything in respect to Isaac.

I respect the sentimental value here of deep NBA roots. But every player and every situation in regards to one another has no direct causation. Correlation maybe - but more from a conditioned response. One doesn’t predict the other.

Sitting here today, yes one should have pause Isaac is injury prone. Doesn’t mean he is more likely to have a whole career of injury because ________ did. And it doesn’t mean he will bounce back to be non injury prone from early career like _________ did.

[KGdaBom]

. I'm 66 and have been following the game since 1967 watching Sundays on CBS with Wilt vs Bill Russell. Not to mention Lew Alcindor at UCLA. So that tops you kgdabom! Just kidding of course!

In my experience I tend to agree. I loved Isaac on draft day but he's never lived up to my expectations even when healthy. The ACL is bad enough but the real concern is the torn meniscus. Many players are never the same after that injury. At 17.5 mil per for 4 more years I'd stay away from him.

We are among the few and the proud who got to see those guys.

Our experience tells us that Isaac isn't going to fully recover.

Your experience doesn’t tell you, it conditions you. And it doesn’t mean anything in respect to Isaac.

I respect the sentimental value here of deep NBA roots. But every player and every situation in regards to one another has no direct causation. Correlation maybe - but more from a conditioned response. One doesn’t predict the other.

Sitting here today, yes one should have pause Isaac is injury prone. Doesn’t mean he is more likely to have a whole career of injury because ________ did. And it doesn’t mean he will bounce back to be non injury prone from early career like _________ did.

My experience doesn't literally tell me in an audible voice what to expect. However, it does tell me what to expect. It means everything in respect to Isaac. I've never compared Isaac to a prior player. I have an amalgam of many prior players speaking to me about the prospects of Isaac. Is my experience infallible? Of course not, but I trust my experience in this matter implicitly. You way undervalue the insight gained by experience. Could I be wrong? Certainly. I would be shocked to be wrong though. We will find out in the next few years.

[Godaddycurse]

Trade Board pegs Chris Bouchard’s value at a pair of 2nds, and I think I’d go for that.

MIN GETS: Bouchard
TOR GETS: 2022 MIN 2nd, 2022 DEN air PHI 2nd, Okogie, Layman

Why for TOR? The Raptors traded Kyle Lowry and got Precious Achiuwa from MIA, and liked what they saw of Khem Birch at the end of last season and signed him to a three year deal. They already have Siakim and really like Scottie Barnes, who they drafted #4. It’s unlikely they have a role left for the expiring Bouchard after some good play last season, so they cash out.

Why for MIN? Bouchard can be either our starting or back up PF, and he can play a little back up center in a pinch. He can defend the rim and he has three point ability. This trade opens a roster spot and reduces our payroll by about $1 mil.

its actually closer to 50/50 (27 vs 30) on whether he is worth a 1st or not. I doubt raptors let him go short of a 1st rd pick coming back though. maybe if its vanderbilt instead of layman going back?

[Mamba4Goat]

JaMychal Green for Okogie, Layman, and a small asset makes a bit of sense for each team. Especially if Zeke Nnaji is looking decent.

[Nick K]

I'm 62 and have been following the NBA since 1970. I've just seen too many similar cases to Isaac to think he has more than a minuscule chance at ever being special again. I don't have any research data other than my own experience to go on. I would guess the Timberwolves share my opinion on him. Once again just what I believe.

. I'm 66 and have been following the game since 1967 watching Sundays on CBS with Wilt vs Bill Russell. Not to mention Lew Alcindor at UCLA. So that tops you kgdabom! Just kidding of course!

In my experience I tend to agree. I loved Isaac on draft day but he's never lived up to my expectations even when healthy. The ACL is bad enough but the real concern is the torn meniscus. Many players are never the same after that injury. At 17.5 mil per for 4 more years I'd stay away from him.

We are among the few and the proud who got to see those guys.

Our experience tells us that Isaac isn't going to fully recover.

Damn right!

Yep.....sad to say but there is always a chance. It might be a 25% chance of him being better than he used to be. Outside of defense, he was just a bit over average to begin with.