Ben Simmons Thread (READ FIRST POST)

[Klomp]

Just to put some numbers to Simmons trade without DLo …

The three max deals will cost you $100. Edwards is anther $10. Lux threshold is $136.

That’s actually not that bad. The bigger concern is when DLo’s deal comes up again and Edwards wants another max. Although, everything seems to suggest that the cap is about to go way up when the new TV deal kicks in in a couple years, giving us some more room and making these deals seem better.

You don’t think so? $26 mil to fill eleven roster spots? $2.3 each isn’t much more than the minimum. And that’s assuming we could get PHI to take Prince, Beasley AND Beverley, because we can’t put $12 mil into a single guy.

Agree with you on the tv deal, but until then, we are going to struggle to afford a winning team.

Edit: maybe you would need to get Taylo and ARod to agree to go into the lux this year regardless. If our team is filled with vet min deals, and we are keeping those four players, how do we add salary? Trade 6 min players for a $15 mil starter? Each season, we could add an MLE player, but we don’t have much flexibility to grow the payroll either way.

The three max deals cost $94.6 million. See, I just found an extra $5 million of pocket change in the couch cushion!

I think we need to remember that Taylor has never been afraid of the luxury tax. And I don't believe Lore and Rodriguez will be either. Neither of them are known as penny pinchers.

[SO_MONEY]

You follow best practices and the order of operations, you don't compound mistakes, you buy low and sell high, you accumulate flexibility and aquire assets, you judiciously spend and at a time your team is experiencing growth and development. You might get to a point that your team can't better or is declining, that is when you cut your losses and start the process over.

You can't do all of that at the same time.

And your plan offers ZERO NAMES to go after.

Might as well be talking about how to restore a classic car.

Why would I offer names or specifics, when this methodology could take years and countless moves given unforeseen circumstances or ever-changing, non-static opportunities? You want instant gratification be it on the court or with my answers, whereas I am comfortable with doing the right thing given the time and place, knowing things might not work out, but it is better to know all of the questions; than some of the answers.

And this ZERO NAMES mantra is something you repeat over and over and time and time again is proven to be a useless demand, because we are of different mindsets, with entirely different ways we talk about things. You require some kind of time capsule, I look at things as a living document.

[shrink]

Read on Twitter

It should be pointed out that in Brook’s first six seasons, he only attempted seven three pointers (0-7), and in his next two seasons, he made 3 three pointers, only attempting 28 more. (.100, .143). He wasn’t taking them because that wasn’t his role - he was destroying people at the basket, or with a short midranger.

Teams would LOVE for Simmons to take and make three pointers! Everyone, including Simmons, knows it would greatly enhance his game with the ball in his hands. But we have seen nothing to suggest he is suddenly going to learn to shoot three pointers, or that he will suddenly start taking them.

Here’s the key. Many know that one good way to predict three pointing potential is looking at free throw percentage. Brook is a career .796 FT%, and in those seasons he wasn’t shooting three pointers, he had three seasons over 81%. Simmons, on the other hand, is a career .597% FT shooter.

Michael Jordan won 6 nba titles - I guess I might be able to as well. My only source of evidence: “it can be done!”

[Klomp]

Read on Twitter

It should be pointed out that in Brook’s first six seasons, he only attempted seven three pointers (0-7), and in his next two seasons, he made 3 three pointers, only attempting 28 more. (.100, .143). He wasn’t taking them because that wasn’t his role - he was destroying people at the basket, or with a short midranger.

Teams would LOVE for Simmons to take and make three pointers! Everyone, including Simmons, knows it would greatly enhance his game with the ball in his hands. But we have seen nothing to suggest he is suddenly going to learn to shoot three pointers, or that he will suddenly start taking them.

Here’s the key. Many know that one good way to predict three pointing potential is looking at free throw percentage. Brook is a career .796 FT%, and in those seasons he wasn’t shooting three pointers, he had three seasons over 81%. Simmons, on the other hand, is a career .597% FT shooter.

Michael Jordan won 6 nba titles - I guess I might be able to as well. My only source of evidence: “it can be done!”

So you're praising Lopez's growth because that wasn't his role early in his career, but excusing the growth potential for Simmons in a new environment and with a new role?

Yes, it can be done. Doesn't mean it's easy or guaranteed to happen or even likely. Just that it can be done. Some here are not giving Simmons even that possibility.

[SO_MONEY]

Read on Twitter

It should be pointed out that in Brook’s first six seasons, he only attempted seven three pointers (0-7), and in his next two seasons, he made 3 three pointers, only attempting 28 more. (.100, .143). He wasn’t taking them because that wasn’t his role - he was destroying people at the basket, or with a short midranger.

Teams would LOVE for Simmons to take and make three pointers! Everyone, including Simmons, knows it would greatly enhance his game with the ball in his hands. But we have seen nothing to suggest he is suddenly going to learn to shoot three pointers, or that he will suddenly start taking them.

Here’s the key. Many know that one good way to predict three pointing potential is looking at free throw percentage. Brook is a career .796 FT%, and in those seasons he wasn’t shooting three pointers, he had three seasons over 81%. Simmons, on the other hand, is a career .597% FT shooter.

Michael Jordan won 6 nba titles - I guess I might be able to as well. My only source of evidence: “it can be done!”

You don't pay a premium for maybes.

[Klomp]

You don't pay a premium for maybes.

If Ben Simmons is playing at his best (this has nothing to do with his shot), the assets we're talking about would not be classified as paying a premium. If we were truly paying a premium, the deal would be consummated already.

[SO_MONEY]

You don't pay a premium for maybes.

If Ben Simmons is playing at his best (this has nothing to do with his shot), the assets we're talking about would not be classified as paying a premium. If we were truly paying a premium, the deal would be consummated already.

You don't target Simmons because you think he is worth a lot, you target him because he isn't but could supplement the team. We don't know if we would be paying a premium or not, teams have just held off to this point.

[shrink]

The three max deals cost $94.6 million. See, I just found an extra $5 million of pocket change in the couch cushion!

LOL! I admit I didn’t look, I just knew they were all over $30. Still, that’s $95 mil today, and these are multi year contracts.

I agree with you that Taylor hasn’t been afraid to cross the lux, but I am saying that after crossing two years ago, and a team with three max deals longterm, staying under the lux this season may be a big deal. In addition, I am more concerned about what mechanisms in the CBA would allow us to add salary to keep adding to the team in the future.

Krapinsky might have the best solution. If your trade for Simmons doesn’t include DLo, you play out this season, and start looking for a trading partner for DLo that can bring you 2-3 rotation pieces. The alternative is to go over the lux this year, hold onto one of the three contracts in the teens (let’s say Prince), and trade Prince at the deadline for a multi year contract of a useful player. Then next summer, you use the full MLE, and trade the new multi-year (and any assets remaining), for a better player.

Maybe I should spell it out. Say we trade Beasley, Beverley and two firsts (maybe people think it will take 3 if we keep McDaniels, who we would need desperately for contract). Then you have

DLo, … McDaniels?
Ant, Okogie, Nowell
Jaden, Prince, Layman
Simmons, Vando
KAT, Naz

Next year add an MLE, and trade Prince for rotation players, and hope the new tv deal slides you back under the lux.

[Krapinsky]

It is not entitlement, I just want to build right to not waste time on a team that doesn't have a chance or isn't building towards one. Entitlement? This is the offensive misleading rhetoric destroying conversation.

The concern about becoming “Philly at best” for a team that has been as awful as the Wolves is perplexing to say the least. Please enlighten us how you, So Money, would turn us into a team better than Philly has been over these last four years. Specifically, what would be your strategy to turn the Wolves into a title contending team with higher upside than Embiid-Harris-Simmons trifecta?

You follow best practices and the order of operations, you don't compound mistakes, you buy low and sell high, you accumulate flexibility and aquire assets, you judiciously spend and at a time your team is experiencing growth and development. You might get to a point that your team can't better or is declining, that is when you cut your losses and start the process over. You act as if I don't understand my very own philosophy, like those questions mean something.

Entitlement? No! I don't expect a good team just be handed over or we deserve one by virtue of existing, it takes hard work and effort, smarts and ingenuity, patience and discipline.

Contextually, not even sure why you used that word other than to insult me.

This is a non-answer if there ever was one. How about some specifics? How to you turn this current core into a title contender?

[shrink]

Read on Twitter

It should be pointed out that in Brook’s first six seasons, he only attempted seven three pointers (0-7), and in his next two seasons, he made 3 three pointers, only attempting 28 more. (.100, .143). He wasn’t taking them because that wasn’t his role - he was destroying people at the basket, or with a short midranger.

Teams would LOVE for Simmons to take and make three pointers! Everyone, including Simmons, knows it would greatly enhance his game with the ball in his hands. But we have seen nothing to suggest he is suddenly going to learn to shoot three pointers, or that he will suddenly start taking them.

Here’s the key. Many know that one good way to predict three pointing potential is looking at free throw percentage. Brook is a career .796 FT%, and in those seasons he wasn’t shooting three pointers, he had three seasons over 81%. Simmons, on the other hand, is a career .597% FT shooter.

Michael Jordan won 6 nba titles - I guess I might be able to as well. My only source of evidence: “it can be done!”

So you're praising Lopez's growth because that wasn't his role early in his career, but excusing the growth potential for Simmons in a new environment and with a new role?

Yes, it can be done. Doesn't mean it's easy or guaranteed to happen or even likely. Just that it can be done. Some here are not giving Simmons even that possibility.

Show me someone like Ben, who was a 60% FT shooter, who really needed it in his game, that became a good three point shooter. Then you can tell me “it can be done.”

Don’t show me an 80% FT shooter who never tried before.

[shrink]

The concern about becoming “Philly at best” for a team that has been as awful as the Wolves is perplexing to say the least. Please enlighten us how you, So Money, would turn us into a team better than Philly has been over these last four years. Specifically, what would be your strategy to turn the Wolves into a title contending team with higher upside than Embiid-Harris-Simmons trifecta?

You follow best practices and the order of operations, you don't compound mistakes, you buy low and sell high, you accumulate flexibility and aquire assets, you judiciously spend and at a time your team is experiencing growth and development. You might get to a point that your team can't better or is declining, that is when you cut your losses and start the process over. You act as if I don't understand my very own philosophy, like those questions mean something.

Entitlement? No! I don't expect a good team just be handed over or we deserve one by virtue of existing, it takes hard work and effort, smarts and ingenuity, patience and discipline.

Contextually, not even sure why you used that word other than to insult me.

This is a non-answer if there ever was one. How about some specifics? How to you turn this current core into a title contender?

I disagree. He is saying, “A doctor explains to a crippled child’s parents the pathways with physical therapies, surgeries, and intense work that has helped kids learn to walk, and have a solid platform to develop farther.” You’re saying, “what specifically will help my crippled child win his high school 100 meter sprint?”

It is important we build this team right. Not just because we found a couple potential building blocks as rookies. It’s because we want to accomplish something solid and longterm. We have seen the team take shortcuts before, and we have seen teams that cycle in the middle like ORL or CHA, never getting anywhere. We have the best chance in a long time to build something solid. I’m excited. I don’t want to see us blow this opportunity.

[SO_MONEY]

The concern about becoming “Philly at best” for a team that has been as awful as the Wolves is perplexing to say the least. Please enlighten us how you, So Money, would turn us into a team better than Philly has been over these last four years. Specifically, what would be your strategy to turn the Wolves into a title contending team with higher upside than Embiid-Harris-Simmons trifecta?

You follow best practices and the order of operations, you don't compound mistakes, you buy low and sell high, you accumulate flexibility and aquire assets, you judiciously spend and at a time your team is experiencing growth and development. You might get to a point that your team can't better or is declining, that is when you cut your losses and start the process over. You act as if I don't understand my very own philosophy, like those questions mean something.

Entitlement? No! I don't expect a good team just be handed over or we deserve one by virtue of existing, it takes hard work and effort, smarts and ingenuity, patience and discipline.

Contextually, not even sure why you used that word other than to insult me.

This is a non-answer if there ever was one. How about some specifics? How to you turn this current core into a title contender?

I don't owe you specifics and I covered why.

See my response to Thinktank.

In short I am not taking about specifics, I am talking about what you do, how you do things, why and why not. I am not going to speculate about what may or may not be available many moves out or potentially years out. I will let current information drive the names and determine if that corresponds with proper management based on the aforementioned.

You want to know how? I took the time to tell you... respect that and don't make demands in an attempt to steer the conversation in a direction you want because that is not applicable to anything I stated and not the conversation I am having.

[IceManBK1]

How about we help raptors get Simmons while we get Siakam from them? They can select from a pool of players of Beasley, Prince, Bolmaro, Reid, Layman, Okogie. We'll have to include two lotto protected 1sts and a 2nd for sure.

[Klomp]

It is important we build this team right. Not just because we found a couple potential building blocks as rookies. It’s because we want to accomplish something solid and longterm. We have seen the team take shortcuts before, and we have seen teams that cycle in the middle like ORL or CHA, never getting anywhere. We have the best chance in a long time to build something solid. I’m excited. I don’t want to see us blow this opportunity.

We have seen teams take shortcuts before, and we ended up in the playoffs. We have seen teams continually going through a youth movement. It ended in 20 years of terrible basketball.

[Klomp]

How about we help raptors get Simmons while we get Siakam from them? They can select from a pool of players of Beasley, Prince, Bolmaro, Reid, Layman, Okogie. We'll have to include two lotto protected 1sts and a 2nd for sure.

SHORTCUTS ARE NOT ALLOWED!

[SO_MONEY]

How about we help raptors get Simmons while we get Siakam from them? They can select from a pool of players of Beasley, Prince, Bolmaro, Reid, Layman, Okogie. We'll have to include two lotto protected 1sts and a 2nd for sure.

SHORTCUTS ARE NOT ALLOWED!

If you are forgoing a couple of steps that would long-term be beneficial to utilize and potentially build a better team, I think the case for it being unwise and reactionary is strong.

[SO_MONEY]

It is important we build this team right. Not just because we found a couple potential building blocks as rookies. It’s because we want to accomplish something solid and longterm. We have seen the team take shortcuts before, and we have seen teams that cycle in the middle like ORL or CHA, never getting anywhere. We have the best chance in a long time to build something solid. I’m excited. I don’t want to see us blow this opportunity.

We have seen teams take shortcuts before, and we ended up in the playoffs. We have seen teams continually going through a youth movement. It ended in 20 years of terrible basketball.

You don't just give up and hurt the overall long-term prospects for sustainable success so you get some kind of moral victory.

[SO_MONEY]

How about we help raptors get Simmons while we get Siakam from them? They can select from a pool of players of Beasley, Prince, Bolmaro, Reid, Layman, Okogie. We'll have to include two lotto protected 1sts and a 2nd for sure.

Why would Toronto want Simmons? I am skeptical they would.

[Irishniner]

Even though there's loads of trade talk going on, the best thing obviously is to see how the team looks, when healthy and with a training camp to start the season. Maybe, we start off looking good and Edwards is playing like an all star from the jump. In that case, there's no pressure to get a deal done.

Ideally, there's a lot of disruption in Philly and the various camps leak that they are not happy with each other and Simmons agitates for a trade.

An important point as well is that with Simmons going to Klutch, what's to stop him throwing a hissy fit and demanding a mid season trade to the Lakers, once we acquire him. He seems to have a very high opinion of himself and seems to want to be in a big market and be seen as a 'star'. That's a risk with him.

[shrink]

It is important we build this team right. Not just because we found a couple potential building blocks as rookies. It’s because we want to accomplish something solid and longterm. We have seen the team take shortcuts before, and we have seen teams that cycle in the middle like ORL or CHA, never getting anywhere. We have the best chance in a long time to build something solid. I’m excited. I don’t want to see us blow this opportunity.

We have seen teams take shortcuts before, and we ended up in the playoffs. We have seen teams continually going through a youth movement. It ended in 20 years of terrible basketball.

Well, 19. We did take a shortcut with Jimmy, when we could have continued to grow with LaVine. Looking back, I think we’d be in a better place now if we avoided the shortcut and had LaVine now.

But I don’t just look at the Wolves - I look at all 30 teams. What do they do right, and what do they do wrong? It is particularly difficult for a team like us, who’s not a free agent destination, so we have to be smart. A team I thought did it wrong was CHI, giving up multiple picks and cap space for Vooch, DeRozan, and Lonzo Ball. I get that they needed to convince LaVine they were serious, but that team capped itself as a middle team and gave up it’s future. We need to do better, since our future may be brighter.