Re: Trade Talk (Part Eleven): 2022 Offseason Edition

[winforlose]

Yep. I'm amazed that 3 years ago we were an impossible mess with just a few of good players. then Rosas blew it up and moved all those bodies which was amazing in itself.

Look at the difference in roster balance last year to this year. Night and day. We now have the makeup of a championship team. I wouldn't trade our roster with any other team. This might be my favorite roster of all time and I've been there since day 1. We are deeper than in the KG days 2003.

I hate to say this but I really believe we can win a Championship with this team. Frankly, I'll be disappointed if we don't go to WCF this year. High expectations are good.

BTW, I'd like to leave a roster spot open but I'd be OK with either Burke or Jerome. I liked them both on draft day. I did think Burke would be better though.

Let’s be fair here, how much was the trading and how much was the drafting/scouting undrafted FAs. Naz is found money, JMAC is not great but for a 3rd string PG at his price is found money. Nowell, Minott, and traded for V8 all look like found money from the 2nd round. Ant and MCD are both huge hits on the draft front. Culver was the centerpiece in getting Bev for the culture setting.

Also worth noting that Finch made a HUGE IMPACT. Ryan could have done more to make the older roster work, but he didn’t. Finch unlocked KAT on defense and now has finally fully transitioned him to the 4.

I am not saying the roster shuffle wasn’t important. I am saying that it doesn’t tell the whole story. Quite honestly I don’t even think it tells half of the story.

For sure. How could I not mention Finch? He's the straw that stirs the drink. I love Flip but I'd take Finch as the better coach.

I think you missed my point above. I was referring to the front office moves in general and overall, (one could nit-pick the specifics). You can't be right all the time.

I would argue that the Rudy trade alone was addition by subtraction. Look at the difference from last year to right now. We cleared out good players that weren't really going to win us a championship and balanced the roster at the same time. I'm amazed at how far we've come in such little time.

I was more referring to the “Rosas blew it up and moved all those bodies.” I mean Nowell, Naz, JMAC, Ant, MCD, and KAT are all excluded from that. Ant and MCD came later and the other three ( excluding KAT,) were recent acquisitions that didn’t change. I see your point though, there has been a lot of changes through the last few years. Culver and Juancho get you Bev, and Roco gets you Beasley and V8. That is essentially the entire Gobert trade (from the talent perspective.) I also agree that moving on from some of those guys probably makes you better. A large part of that is bringing in Anderson to replace V8 and Forbes to replace Beasley. Doesn’t actually feel like we lost anything besides the vet presence of Beverly.

My question to you. Does the KAT, Wiggins, 2019 lineup have playoff potential under Finch? In other words did it need to be blown up or simply straightened out?

[Nick K]

Let’s be fair here, how much was the trading and how much was the drafting/scouting undrafted FAs. Naz is found money, JMAC is not great but for a 3rd string PG at his price is found money. Nowell, Minott, and traded for V8 all look like found money from the 2nd round. Ant and MCD are both huge hits on the draft front. Culver was the centerpiece in getting Bev for the culture setting.

Also worth noting that Finch made a HUGE IMPACT. Ryan could have done more to make the older roster work, but he didn’t. Finch unlocked KAT on defense and now has finally fully transitioned him to the 4.

I am not saying the roster shuffle wasn’t important. I am saying that it doesn’t tell the whole story. Quite honestly I don’t even think it tells half of the story.

For sure. How could I not mention Finch? He's the straw that stirs the drink. I love Flip but I'd take Finch as the better coach.

I think you missed my point above. I was referring to the front office moves in general and overall, (one could nit-pick the specifics). You can't be right all the time.

I would argue that the Rudy trade alone was addition by subtraction. Look at the difference from last year to right now. We cleared out good players that weren't really going to win us a championship and balanced the roster at the same time. I'm amazed at how far we've come in such little time.

I was more referring to the “Rosas blew it up and moved all those bodies.” I mean Nowell, Naz, JMAC, Ant, MCD, and KAT are all excluded from that. Ant and MCD came later and the other three ( excluding KAT,) were recent acquisitions that didn’t change. I see your point though, there has been a lot of changes through the last few years. Culver and Juancho get you Bev, and Roco gets you Beasley and V8. That is essentially the entire Gobert trade (from the talent perspective.) I also agree that moving on from some of those guys probably makes you better. A large part of that is bringing in Anderson to replace V8 and Forbes to replace Beasley. Doesn’t actually feel like we lost anything besides the vet presence of Beverly.

My question to you. Does the KAT, Wiggins, 2019 lineup have playoff potential under Finch? In other words did it need to be blown up or simply straightened out?

I think we might have had playoff potential but to win a championship we needed to blow it up. We just had a mini blow-up with the Rudy trade. I'm thrilled at how close we are to WCF or a Championship.

[winforlose]

For sure. How could I not mention Finch? He's the straw that stirs the drink. I love Flip but I'd take Finch as the better coach.

I think you missed my point above. I was referring to the front office moves in general and overall, (one could nit-pick the specifics). You can't be right all the time.

I would argue that the Rudy trade alone was addition by subtraction. Look at the difference from last year to right now. We cleared out good players that weren't really going to win us a championship and balanced the roster at the same time. I'm amazed at how far we've come in such little time.

I was more referring to the “Rosas blew it up and moved all those bodies.” I mean Nowell, Naz, JMAC, Ant, MCD, and KAT are all excluded from that. Ant and MCD came later and the other three ( excluding KAT,) were recent acquisitions that didn’t change. I see your point though, there has been a lot of changes through the last few years. Culver and Juancho get you Bev, and Roco gets you Beasley and V8. That is essentially the entire Gobert trade (from the talent perspective.) I also agree that moving on from some of those guys probably makes you better. A large part of that is bringing in Anderson to replace V8 and Forbes to replace Beasley. Doesn’t actually feel like we lost anything besides the vet presence of Beverly.

My question to you. Does the KAT, Wiggins, 2019 lineup have playoff potential under Finch? In other words did it need to be blown up or simply straightened out?

I think we might have had playoff potential but to win a championship we needed to blow it up. We just had a mini blow-up with the Rudy trade. I'm thrilled at how close we are to WCF or a Championship.

The term mini blow up is funny. On the one hand we just sent out one third of our roster. On the other hand, 2 of those 5 are guys 14 and 15, as well as men 4-6 on last years roster. Yet we kept 1-3 and 7 (MCD) was expected to move up anyway. Rudy is better than basically all 5 put together. It makes me wonder do we call it a mini blow up or major upgrade?

[shrink]

My question to you. Does the KAT, Wiggins, 2019 lineup have playoff potential under Finch? In other words did it need to be blown up or simply straightened out?

What an interesting question!

I think we could have barely made the playoffs, but would never have advanced. It would be difficult for Wiggins to “emerge” under any coach as long as he stayed in Minnesota, because he would always be a disappointment to our expectations, and I think he got comfortable in that. I don’t think the 2019 team has the upside to ever be a true contender, but there is a path for that now, and it mostly comes from Ant.

[IceManBK1]

would pelicans do this? Nance Jr.+Garett Temple for Reid, Layman and a 1st rder?

Dlo/Forbes/Jmac
Edwards/Temple/Novell
McDaniels/Prince/Moore Jr.
Towns/Nance Jr.
Gobert/BAE or Vet min player. Dwight Howard/Whiteside/Greg Monroe etc.

We'll be a very very deep team.

[Baseline81]

would pelicans do this? Nance Jr.+Garett Temple for Reid, Layman and a 1st rder?

Dlo/Forbes/Jmac
Edwards/Temple/Novell
McDaniels/Prince/Moore Jr.
Towns/Nance Jr.
Gobert/BAE or Vet min player. Dwight Howard/Whiteside/Greg Monroe etc.

We'll be a very very deep team.

What first round pick would that be?

And before you reply, no is my answer.

[IceManBK1]

would pelicans do this? Nance Jr.+Garett Temple for Reid, Layman and a 1st rder?

Dlo/Forbes/Jmac
Edwards/Temple/Novell
McDaniels/Prince/Moore Jr.
Towns/Nance Jr.
Gobert/BAE or Vet min player. Dwight Howard/Whiteside/Greg Monroe etc.

We'll be a very very deep team.

What first round pick would that be?

And before you reply, no is my answer.

a late 1st rder? for which yr idk idk if we have any after the gobert trade lol.

[Baseline81]

a late 1st rder? for which yr idk idk if we have any after the gobert trade lol.

Minnesota is now unable to trade a first round pick until 2031 at the earliest.

[Krapinsky]

would pelicans do this? Nance Jr.+Garett Temple for Reid, Layman and a 1st rder?

Dlo/Forbes/Jmac
Edwards/Temple/Novell
McDaniels/Prince/Moore Jr.
Towns/Nance Jr.
Gobert/BAE or Vet min player. Dwight Howard/Whiteside/Greg Monroe etc.

We'll be a very very deep team.

You know we signed Kyle Anderson eh?

[shrink]

would pelicans do this? Nance Jr.+Garett Temple for Reid, Layman and a 1st rder?.

Layman (and Okogie) are not on the team.

[IceManBK1]

would pelicans do this? Nance Jr.+Garett Temple for Reid, Layman and a 1st rder?

Dlo/Forbes/Jmac
Edwards/Temple/Novell
McDaniels/Prince/Moore Jr.
Towns/Nance Jr.
Gobert/BAE or Vet min player. Dwight Howard/Whiteside/Greg Monroe etc.

We'll be a very very deep team.

You know we signed Kyle Anderson eh?

he seems puny..need a bigger backup pf who can play physical defense and reb.

[IceManBK1]

would pelicans do this? Nance Jr.+Garett Temple for Reid, Layman and a 1st rder?.

Layman (and Okogie) are not on the team.

And we can’t trade a 1sr rounder because of the Stepian rule.

Layman's been so idle i didn't even he was a UFA..can we initiate a sign and trade with him atleast?

[shrink]

would pelicans do this? Nance Jr.+Garett Temple for Reid, Layman and a 1st rder?.

Layman (and Okogie) are not on the team.

And we can’t trade a 1sr rounder because of the Stepian rule.

Layman's been so idle i didn't even he was a UFA..can we initiate a sign and trade with him atleast?

Yes, but many teams aren’t going to want to hard cap themselves by adding a sign-and-trade, particularly of Layman’s caliber.

Nance and Temple are $14.8 mil in salary. If we did this deal, we’d be over the lux as well.

I agree with your premise - we could use a big banger.

[BlacJacMac]

would pelicans do this? Nance Jr.+Garett Temple for Reid, Layman and a 1st rder?

Dlo/Forbes/Jmac
Edwards/Temple/Novell
McDaniels/Prince/Moore Jr.
Towns/Nance Jr.
Gobert/BAE or Vet min player. Dwight Howard/Whiteside/Greg Monroe etc.

We'll be a very very deep team.

You know we signed Kyle Anderson eh?

he seems puny..need a bigger backup pf who can play physical defense and reb.

Have you actually seen him play? Remember when he destroyed us on the glass?

Nance and Anderson were the same height, weight and wingspan at the draft combine.

[Nick K]

If we add anybody to the team it's got to be a PG. That said I still can't get J Mac's great play against Memphis playoffs out of my mind. He was fabulous.

[IceManBK1]

If we add anybody to the team it's got to be a PG. That said I still can't get J Mac's great play against Memphis playoffs out of my mind. He was fabulous.

dennis smith jr. is trying out for teams..schroder, rondo, bledsoe are viable options.

[shangrila]

If we add anybody to the team it's got to be a PG. That said I still can't get J Mac's great play against Memphis playoffs out of my mind. He was fabulous.

I'd argue we need a C. Between JMac, Forbes, Nowell, hell even Moore, we've got enough players to man the guard spots. And if we need someone to run the offence we can use SloMo.

But relying on Reid for when KAT and/or Gobert inevitably miss games makes me nervous.

[_AIJ_]

:lol: People are blaming MN for screwing up the trade market and thus throwing a monkey wrench in to KD/Irving/Ayton movement. If that's the case and MN is keeping the powerhouse franchises from getting better, then the Gobert trade is even better!

Love it, also if this blows up in our faces like they are all predicting. The 2029 pick is top 9 protected. Wolves can easily blow it up in 2028/2029 season. We may lose Ant but I prefer being a fan of a team that knows when to go all in and when to rebuild over constant threadmill.
6 seasons to try for chip in the meantime, lets go.

I thought it was top 5 protected?

[winforlose]

:lol: People are blaming MN for screwing up the trade market and thus throwing a monkey wrench in to KD/Irving/Ayton movement. If that's the case and MN is keeping the powerhouse franchises from getting better, then the Gobert trade is even better!

Love it, also if this blows up in our faces like they are all predicting. The 2029 pick is top 9 protected. Wolves can easily blow it up in 2028/2029 season. We may lose Ant but I prefer being a fan of a team that knows when to go all in and when to rebuild over constant threadmill.
6 seasons to try for chip in the meantime, lets go.

I thought it was top 5 protected?

It is top 5 protected. But it converts to a 2nd round pick in 2030 if it doesn’t convey. So if we suck in 2028/2029 we should tank hard to get the worst record and guarantee keeping our pick in 2029 and reducing the overall first round cost by one.

[NebWolvesFan]

Love it, also if this blows up in our faces like they are all predicting. The 2029 pick is top 9 protected. Wolves can easily blow it up in 2028/2029 season. We may lose Ant but I prefer being a fan of a team that knows when to go all in and when to rebuild over constant threadmill.
6 seasons to try for chip in the meantime, lets go.

I thought it was top 5 protected?

It is top 5 protected. But it converts to a 2nd round pick in 2030 if it doesn’t convey. So if we suck in 2028/2029 we should tank hard to get the worst record and guarantee keeping our pick in 2029 and reducing the overall first round cost by one.

I believe it's the 2029 second round pick because teams can't trade 2030 picks yet.

One interesting thing about the 2026 swap is that it only happens if Utah gives OKC a first round pick in 24 or 25. The picks are top ten protected those years, so if Utah decides to tear it down after this season and rebuilds for a couple of years and drafts in the top 10 in 24 and 25 then OKC gets Utah's first round pick (top 8 protected) in 26 and Utah doesn''t have its pick to swap which means that Minnesota keeps its 2026 first.

I think the chances Minnesota swaps its 2026 picks are very very slim.