2020 NBA Draft Prospects: Thread II

[Jedzz]

Second question. Are you good with having him for 4 years and being his training development team until he absolutely leaves? Do you think Lavar wants him playing here beyond 4 years? Is that the best use of this pick?

If we have expanded his value in the meantime and get back more in trade than we put into acquiring him, sure.

What has to occur to get back more in trade than you spent acquiring him exactly? Because getting the #1 overall pick took being one heck of a loser team after being a playoff team not long ago. If he's a star struck kid with star struck money chasing father that we can all pretty much guess will jump ship immediately when the time comes, then why bother unless he's more of a sure thing? Sure, make those kinds of choices at #1 if there is a can't miss looking prospect staring you in the face. Take him rather than be forced to pass and lose that value. But can you really say that's reality in this instance?

This is my true angst. Choosing to be a farm team and just "win" at draft/trade values? Float questionmark picks for years with minutes maintaining draft values for future trades, "hoping" mind you, that they don't wreck their value that causes more cost? (WIGGINS)

Starting a hair brained rookie #1 overall in any position with a currently bad or broken shot is a bad idea. but this team might do it with Edwards or Ball.

Giving 25 bench minutes to a hair brained rookie #1 overall in any position with a currently broken shot, in this 5 out offense, is also a bad idea and this team will at the minimum do that.

So we dumped Wiggins who was a 5 year project with inconsistent shooting and performance only to pick up another? How does that help the team win more. They still have a hair brained Culver developing and last I checked they didn't want to drop him below 20 minutes because yea, trying to maintain his draft value.

Don't want any more players where the team's only goal is developing or maintaining upside down draft value with minutes. If this were any of the ten teams out there that would start rookies with low minutes and maintain that for a year or more I wouldn't question any picks. But even Rosas/Ryan proved they are the same old Wolves when it comes to this. So the players need to prove skills because they are going to play.

[Klomp]

You guys are selling Ball short. His shot isn’t broken beyond repair. He has touch on his shot that his brother never had. He has great instincts for the game despite how poor of coaching he has had. If Vanterpool is still here next season he would be a great trainer for Ball. The weight room will do wonders for him as well. He is a Rubio level passer with potential scoring ability that would only make him that much more dangerous than Rubio could ever dream. Not to mention he is a great rebounder and cutter off the ball. He has the highest potential in this draft in my eyes. If he is actually 6’8” and still growing he is that much more intriguing.

How can you watch him shoot even one time and think that after 16 years of learning that shot ingrained in his DNA that it is salvageable

Some people tried to ask you the same thing about Brandon Clarke last year....

[KGdaBom]

You guys are selling Ball short. His shot isn’t broken beyond repair. He has touch on his shot that his brother never had. He has great instincts for the game despite how poor of coaching he has had. If Vanterpool is still here next season he would be a great trainer for Ball. The weight room will do wonders for him as well. He is a Rubio level passer with potential scoring ability that would only make him that much more dangerous than Rubio could ever dream. Not to mention he is a great rebounder and cutter off the ball. He has the highest potential in this draft in my eyes. If he is actually 6’8” and still growing he is that much more intriguing.

How can you watch him shoot even one time and think that after 16 years of learning that shot ingrained in his DNA that it is salvageable

Some people tried to ask you the same thing about Brandon Clarke last year....

Brandon Clarke made his shots at a very high level coming in to the league. IIRC he was at 70+%.
Maybe that was mostly due to his great shot selection.
Edit: I looked it up. 69%.
His NBA shooting line
62% 36% 76% 64% EFG.

Get back to me when LaMelo does better than that.

[minimus]

You guys are selling Ball short. His shot isn’t broken beyond repair. He has touch on his shot that his brother never had. He has great instincts for the game despite how poor of coaching he has had. If Vanterpool is still here next season he would be a great trainer for Ball. The weight room will do wonders for him as well. He is a Rubio level passer with potential scoring ability that would only make him that much more dangerous than Rubio could ever dream. Not to mention he is a great rebounder and cutter off the ball. He has the highest potential in this draft in my eyes. If he is actually 6’8” and still growing he is that much more intriguing.

If LaMelo Ball is a slightly taller version of Lonzo Ball, with the same passing and defensive ability AND better 3pt shot, than sign me up. If he can grow and develop his body up to 6'8" with 6'11 wingspan and around 200lbs he will be very unique player.

Lonzo is an above-average defender. LaMelo is an awful defender and shooter right now. I am not sold on LaMelo Ball just yet, but I hope MIN will have an additional workout/draft combine to evaluate him.

[Klomp]

This is my true angst. Choosing to be a farm team and just "win" at draft/trade values? Float questionmark picks for years with minutes maintaining draft values for future trades, "hoping" mind you, that they don't wreck their value that causes more cost? (WIGGINS)

Starting a hair brained rookie #1 overall in any position with a currently bad or broken shot is a bad idea. but this team might do it with Edwards or Ball.

Giving 25 bench minutes to a hair brained rookie #1 overall in any position with a currently broken shot, in this 5 out offense, is also a bad idea and this team will at the minimum do that.

So we dumped Wiggins who was a 5 year project with inconsistent shooting and performance only to pick up another? How does that help the team win more. They still have a hair brained Culver developing and last I checked they didn't want to drop him below 20 minutes because yea, trying to maintain his draft value.

Don't want any more players where the team's only goal is developing or maintaining upside down draft value with minutes. If this were any of the ten teams out there that would start rookies with low minutes and maintain that for a year or more I wouldn't question any picks. But even Rosas/Ryan proved they are the same old Wolves when it comes to this. So the players need to prove skills because they are going to play.

This team has been and arguably still is talent deficient. Talent deficient teams play young guys because they are among the best players on the roster. Those teams don't have the loads of talent veterans on their rosters like a Golden State or Houston or Milwaukee. In order to become a contender, talent deficient teams must find ways to add more talent to their rosters. The way to do that is to find values in the draft and in trades.

[Baseline81]

I think a lot of people believe Towns can play PF. However, it doesn't seem to be the way the front office is constructing the team.

For better or worse, I agree.

When the Wolves initially won the draft lottery, I scoured the web on the top-3 prospects. I soon stopped looking at Wiseman and instead focused on Ball and Edwards.

That's not to say Wiseman cannot end up on the Wolves. I just don't see Rosas selecting him with the first overall pick.

[Baseline81]

Jaylen Brown (California)
2P%: .482 (8.1 2PA)
3P%: .294 (3.0 3PA)
FG%: .431 (11.1 FGA)
FT%: .654 (6.4 FTA)

Anthony Edwards (Georgia)
2P%: .504 (8.1 2PA)
3P%: .294 (7.7 3PA)
FG%: .402 (15.8 FGA)
FT%: .772 (5.3 FTA)

In Jaylen Brown's first four years in the league, he has yet to shoot below .341 3P% (.371 career). I am beginning to buy into Edwards' percentages being low due to what was asked of him on a bad team. Put him around better players and his numbers may very well rise.

[Neeva]

I think a lot of people believe Towns can play PF. However, it doesn't seem to be the way the front office is constructing the team.

For better or worse, I agree.

When the Wolves initially won the draft lottery, I scoured the web on the top-3 prospects. I soon stopped looking at Wiseman and instead focused on Ball and Edwards.

That's not to say Wiseman cannot end up on the Wolves. I just don't see Rosas selecting him with the first overall pick.

Agreed I don’t think Wisrman will be bad at all but I don’t see him retaining high value, and as a possible future trade chip Rosas will want Edwards or Ball.
Only way Wolves end up with Wiseman is if they trade down and he falls.

[Baseline81]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29793884/nba-draft-buzz-league-insiders-warriors-trades-top-prospects

What should the Timberwolves do with the No. 1 pick?
The situation: The Wolves, now featuring two core pieces in Karl-Anthony Towns and D'Angelo Russell (both age 24), have made the playoffs only once in 16 years.

Will Minnesota take a top prospect several years younger than its two building blocks or try to move the No. 1 pick for more immediate help?

What league insiders are saying: While Minnesota would love to pull off a blockbuster move and team up Phoenix Suns star Devin Booker with close friends Russell and Towns, Phoenix isn't going for that. Most league insiders expect the Wolves to take Georgia guard Anthony Edwards, considered the best positional fit among the top three prospects (including National Basketball League guard LaMelo Ball and Memphis center James Wiseman).

But one Eastern Conference executive said it would make sense for Minnesota to try to trade down and collect extra draft picks.

"I wouldn't be opposed to doing that, because I could then use those picks to get what you need when you see what you have with [Towns] and Russell," he said. "If you break [No. 1] into several picks, then you can trade with an expiring contract to get a player."

[NebWolvesFan]

Safe to assume this is Danny Ainge or Masai Ujiri:

"I wouldn't be opposed to doing that, because I could then use those picks to get what you need when you see what you have with [Towns] and Russell," he said. "If you break [No. 1] into several picks, then you can trade with an expiring contract to get a player."

I would love this deal: Minnesota No. 1 for NYK No. 8, Dallas 2021 FRP, Charlotte 2021 SPR, NYK 2022 FRP (top 3 protected). That Knicks pick, when Thibs blows it up, will have crazy value after next season. Why would the Knicks do it? Because Thibs' ego believes he will have them in the playoffs in two years.

[minimus]

Safe to assume this is Danny Ainge or Masai Ujiri:

"I wouldn't be opposed to doing that, because I could then use those picks to get what you need when you see what you have with [Towns] and Russell," he said. "If you break [No. 1] into several picks, then you can trade with an expiring contract to get a player."

I would love this deal: Minnesota No. 1 for NYK No. 8, Dallas 2021 FRP, Charlotte 2021 SPR, NYK 2022 FRP (top 3 protected). That Knicks pick, when Thibs blows it up, will have crazy value after next season. Why would the Knicks do it? Because Thibs' ego believes he will have them in the playoffs in two years.

This might actually work. NYK would love to draft a hyped prospect (Ball) who can bring some joy.

[minimus]

Jaylen Brown (California)
2P%: .482 (8.1 2PA)
3P%: .294 (3.0 3PA)
FG%: .431 (11.1 FGA)
FT%: .654 (6.4 FTA)

Anthony Edwards (Georgia)
2P%: .504 (8.1 2PA)
3P%: .294 (7.7 3PA)
FG%: .402 (15.8 FGA)
FT%: .772 (5.3 FTA)

In Jaylen Brown's first four years in the league, he has yet to shoot below .341 3P% (.371 career). I am beginning to buy into Edwards' percentages being low due to what was asked of him on a bad team. Put him around better players and his numbers may very well rise.

I remember Zach LaVine was an awfully bad decision-maker as a rookie playing out of position at PG. But those experiences helped him to develop into a quality SG. I wonder whether Edwards can follow the same path, gain experience as a lead ballhandler, main option in offense in Georgia, develop a killer instinct, and be an efficient scorer in NBA.

[KGdaBom]

Jaylen Brown (California)
2P%: .482 (8.1 2PA)
3P%: .294 (3.0 3PA)
FG%: .431 (11.1 FGA)
FT%: .654 (6.4 FTA)

Anthony Edwards (Georgia)
2P%: .504 (8.1 2PA)
3P%: .294 (7.7 3PA)
FG%: .402 (15.8 FGA)
FT%: .772 (5.3 FTA)

In Jaylen Brown's first four years in the league, he has yet to shoot below .341 3P% (.371 career). I am beginning to buy into Edwards' percentages being low due to what was asked of him on a bad team. Put him around better players and his numbers may very well rise.

I remember Zach LaVine was an awfully bad decision-maker as a rookie playing out of position at PG. But those experiences helped him to develop into a quality SG. I wonder whether Edwards can follow the same path, gain experience as a lead ballhandler, main option in offense in Georgia, develop a killer instinct, and be an efficient scorer in NBA.

It is interesting. I don't hate the idea of us drafting him.

[Mattya]

You guys are selling Ball short. His shot isn’t broken beyond repair. He has touch on his shot that his brother never had. He has great instincts for the game despite how poor of coaching he has had. If Vanterpool is still here next season he would be a great trainer for Ball. The weight room will do wonders for him as well. He is a Rubio level passer with potential scoring ability that would only make him that much more dangerous than Rubio could ever dream. Not to mention he is a great rebounder and cutter off the ball. He has the highest potential in this draft in my eyes. If he is actually 6’8” and still growing he is that much more intriguing.

How can you watch him shoot even one time and think that after 16 years of learning that shot ingrained in his DNA that it is salvageable

Because I can look at the context of his shooting and his touch on his release and see how it could improve.

[Mattya]

How can you watch him shoot even one time and think that after 16 years of learning that shot ingrained in his DNA that it is salvageable

Some people tried to ask you the same thing about Brandon Clarke last year....

Brandon Clarke made his shots at a very high level coming in to the league. IIRC he was at 70+%.
Maybe that was mostly due to his great shot selection.
Edit: I looked it up. 69%.
His NBA shooting line
62% 36% 76% 64% EFG.

Get back to me when LaMelo does better than that.

Again this disingenuous dunking is shooting stuff. Clarke shot 25% over 3 years from 3 in college and 62% at the line. That is while being a spot up shooter after 3 years of development. Lamelo takes significantly more difficult shots as an offense creator. If Lamelo improves his shooting his offense will be infinitely more valuable than Clarke’s offense.

[Jedzz]

This is my true angst. Choosing to be a farm team and just "win" at draft/trade values? Float questionmark picks for years with minutes maintaining draft values for future trades, "hoping" mind you, that they don't wreck their value that causes more cost? (WIGGINS)

Starting a hair brained rookie #1 overall in any position with a currently bad or broken shot is a bad idea. but this team might do it with Edwards or Ball.

Giving 25 bench minutes to a hair brained rookie #1 overall in any position with a currently broken shot, in this 5 out offense, is also a bad idea and this team will at the minimum do that.

So we dumped Wiggins who was a 5 year project with inconsistent shooting and performance only to pick up another? How does that help the team win more. They still have a hair brained Culver developing and last I checked they didn't want to drop him below 20 minutes because yea, trying to maintain his draft value.

Don't want any more players where the team's only goal is developing or maintaining upside down draft value with minutes. If this were any of the ten teams out there that would start rookies with low minutes and maintain that for a year or more I wouldn't question any picks. But even Rosas/Ryan proved they are the same old Wolves when it comes to this. So the players need to prove skills because they are going to play.

This team has been and arguably still is talent deficient. Talent deficient teams play young guys because they are among the best players on the roster. Those teams don't have the loads of talent veterans on their rosters like a Golden State or Houston or Milwaukee. In order to become a contender, talent deficient teams must find ways to add more talent to their rosters. The way to do that is to find values in the draft and in trades.

Excuse me Klomp but this response is devoid of context reality right now. Your second sentence makes no sense. Not every young guy is among the best players on the roster. Not even close. Currently, the Wolves have more roster talent and depth than usual. The overwhelming feeling of deficit of talent is really only in some of your heads. There is room for depth additions by draft pick, or FA trades maybe to try and improve starting.

[Macwolf527]

Jaylen Brown (California)
2P%: .482 (8.1 2PA)
3P%: .294 (3.0 3PA)
FG%: .431 (11.1 FGA)
FT%: .654 (6.4 FTA)

Anthony Edwards (Georgia)
2P%: .504 (8.1 2PA)
3P%: .294 (7.7 3PA)
FG%: .402 (15.8 FGA)
FT%: .772 (5.3 FTA)

In Jaylen Brown's first four years in the league, he has yet to shoot below .341 3P% (.371 career). I am beginning to buy into Edwards' percentages being low due to what was asked of him on a bad team. Put him around better players and his numbers may very well rise.

I remember Zach LaVine was an awfully bad decision-maker as a rookie playing out of position at PG. But those experiences helped him to develop into a quality SG. I wonder whether Edwards can follow the same path, gain experience as a lead ballhandler, main option in offense in Georgia, develop a killer instinct, and be an efficient scorer in NBA.

I attempted to make this same argument right after the lottery. Edwards has about 10 games where he could not hit the side of a barn and it translated to his shooting all over the court, not just from the 3pt range. I saw further evidence in the fact that the Bulldogs were completely out of those games. You could tell that teams were targeting Edwards defensively. Coming into a situation with DLo and Towns where he is not the offensive focal point, should bring out the best in his game. The responsibility falls upon him to learn how to find quality shots in the proper flow of the game versus just jacking up long threes. I still believe Edwards is going to be special. He's built for the NBA.

[Klomp]

Coming into a situation with DLo and Towns where he is not the offensive focal point, should bring out the best in his game. The responsibility falls upon him to learn how to find quality shots in the proper flow of the game versus just jacking up long threes. I still believe Edwards is going to be special. He's built for the NBA.

Maybe so. But I worry that the threat is real that he could simply be a Tyreke Evans.....a Dion Waiters.....a Lance Stephenson.....a JR Smith. How do we feel if one of those is the outcome?

[Baseline81]

Maybe so. But I worry that the threat is real that he could simply be a Tyreke Evans.....a Dion Waiters.....a Lance Stephenson.....a JR Smith. How do we feel if one of those is the outcome?

There's always a chance a prospect doesn't reach his potential or busts entirely. I could come up with a few negative comps for Ball or Wiseman if you'd like.

[KGdaBom]

Some people tried to ask you the same thing about Brandon Clarke last year....

Brandon Clarke made his shots at a very high level coming in to the league. IIRC he was at 70+%.
Maybe that was mostly due to his great shot selection.
Edit: I looked it up. 69%.
His NBA shooting line
62% 36% 76% 64% EFG.

Get back to me when LaMelo does better than that.

Again this disingenuous dunking is shooting stuff. Clarke shot 25% over 3 years from 3 in college and 62% at the line. That is while being a spot up shooter after 3 years of development. Lamelo takes significantly more difficult shots as an offense creator. If Lamelo improves his shooting his offense will be infinitely more valuable than Clarke’s offense.

Shots are shots. They either go in or they don't. To make them from close is a good skill because many players are not good at making them from close. Since the league awards a bonus point for shots that go in from further away 33% shooting on 3s is as good as 50% shooting on twos. They give those extra credit in the EFG% which gauges shooting efficiency. Clarke in the NBA has a 64% EFG. He is a super efficient scorer in the NBA just like he was in college.