Trade Talk (Part Five)

[minimus]

We need a third star, because it gives us biggest chance to start winning in West Conference. Rosas delivered a sign of his geniality by turning water into wine, i.e. Wiggins into DLo. However, it is almost impossible to acquire a young star in this league without giving away many assets. E.g. Simmons or Booker trade would probably mean a combination of #1, #17, Culver, JJ, Layman, Okogie, Reid, 2023 and 2025 unprotected picks. It also must be a baby max contract. Otherwise, we wont have any cap space at all.

Second scenario is to get a young player who can outperform his current multiyear contract, such as Aaron Gordon, Caris LeVert, DeJonte Murray. In my opinion they can play much better in MIN because of KAT-DLo.

Last scenario is a proven player in his prime, who plays close to star level, but comes with some risks. E.g. Jrue Holiday, Oladipo, Hayward. Sure, we cant afford paying them max contract. The question is who of these group is willing to resign with us for multi-year deal slightly below max? If Holiday accepts 25-30 mil per year deal, it is a fantastic deal for us. I'm sure a trio of KAT-DLo-Holiday would play competitive basketball and I'm sure that Rosas and Gupta would fill our roster with role players on team-friendly deals such Nowell, Reid, Martin, Layman etc.

[Macwolf527]

We need a third star, because it gives us biggest chance to start winning in West Conference. Rosas delivered a sign of his geniality by turning water into wine, i.e. Wiggins into DLo. However, it is almost impossible to acquire a young star in this league without giving away many assets. E.g. Simmons or Booker trade would probably mean a combination of #1, #17, Culver, JJ, Layman, Okogie, Reid, 2023 and 2025 unprotected picks. It also must be a baby max contract. Otherwise, we wont have any cap space at all.

Second scenario is to get a young player who can outperform his current multiyear contract, such as Aaron Gordon, Caris LeVert, DeJonte Murray. In my opinion they can play much better in MIN because of KAT-DLo.

Last scenario is a proven player in his prime, who plays close to star level, but comes with some risks. E.g. Jrue Holiday, Oladipo, Hayward. Sure, we cant afford paying them max contract. The question is who of these group is willing to resign with us for multi-year deal slightly below max? If Holiday accepts 25-30 mil per year deal, it is a fantastic deal for us. I'm sure a trio of KAT-DLo-Holiday would play competitive basketball and I'm sure that Rosas and Gupta would fill our roster with role players on team-friendly deals such Nowell, Reid, Martin, Layman etc.

I’m hesitant to drop too many assets this early in the process. Typically when this type of move is made, you have some idea where the holes lie within your team. We don’t know that yet because of the unexpected end to last season. Unless it’s a blockbuster for Booker, Simmons or Beal, I’d rather wait until the trade deadline to unload our assets. The only reason I’m comfortable with making a move for those three, is because of what’s left on their contract.

[KGdaBom]

Well as you said above, you have the right to be wrong. Stats don’t agree with you, Holiday is not a million times better nor worth sacrificing #1 and paying him double Murray. Stats for Murray coming back from injury and Covid shortened season prove he is every bit of Holiday and not a offense liability as you say. Sorry.

Dejounte Murray Jrue Holiday
Field goal percentage 46.2% 45.5%
Two point percentage 48.1% 50.9%
Three point fg percentage 36.9% 35.3%
Free throw percentage 79.8% 70.9%
E field goal percentage 49.4% 51.6%
True shooting 52.4% 53.7%
Field goal attempts 18.1 22.8
Three point fg attempts 3.2 7.8
Free throw attempts 3.2 4.1

Jrue was shooting 8 3s a game to Murray's 3. Murray doesn't score enough. 11 points a game. He's not a threat. He's an offensive liability. Holiday 19 points a game. The stats do agree with me.

Of course Holiday raw scoring stats are more. As are his usage stats. He is 30yo leader on his team.

If you think such simple stats tells the story Holiday is a million times better and worth #1 and double the money than Murray, I can’t help you.

That's what I believe so you can't help me.

[minimus]

We need a third star, because it gives us biggest chance to start winning in West Conference. Rosas delivered a sign of his geniality by turning water into wine, i.e. Wiggins into DLo. However, it is almost impossible to acquire a young star in this league without giving away many assets. E.g. Simmons or Booker trade would probably mean a combination of #1, #17, Culver, JJ, Layman, Okogie, Reid, 2023 and 2025 unprotected picks. It also must be a baby max contract. Otherwise, we wont have any cap space at all.

Second scenario is to get a young player who can outperform his current multiyear contract, such as Aaron Gordon, Caris LeVert, DeJonte Murray. In my opinion they can play much better in MIN because of KAT-DLo.

Last scenario is a proven player in his prime, who plays close to star level, but comes with some risks. E.g. Jrue Holiday, Oladipo, Hayward. Sure, we cant afford paying them max contract. The question is who of these group is willing to resign with us for multi-year deal slightly below max? If Holiday accepts 25-30 mil per year deal, it is a fantastic deal for us. I'm sure a trio of KAT-DLo-Holiday would play competitive basketball and I'm sure that Rosas and Gupta would fill our roster with role players on team-friendly deals such Nowell, Reid, Martin, Layman etc.

I’m hesitant to drop too many assets this early in the process. Typically when this type of move is made, you have some idea where the holes lie within your team. We don’t know that yet because of the unexpected end to last season. Unless it’s a blockbuster for Booker, Simmons or Beal, I’d rather wait until the trade deadline to unload our assets. The only reason I’m comfortable with making a move for those three, is because of what’s left on their contract.

I also think that our biggest chance is to wait until trade deadline, help Culver, Nowell, Okogie, Reid, Vanderbilt, Layman to improve, play competitive basketball. With regard to draft it is a complete mess, we need to hit a player with star potential or trade pick for highest value. It will be a wild offseason, I am sure.

[KGdaBom]

Johnson and what other Minnesota player(s) would need to be included to match Holiday's salary of $26M?

The usual suspects. Evans and Spellman most likely.

[KGdaBom]

You have your right to be wrong. He's better than many of the players you listed.
I'm a very good fantasy basketball player and I would consider drafting Holiday any time after pick 10. And he's a better real basketball player than fantasy.

No disrespect but holy **** are you kidding me?


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He is not close to top twenty.... Lets get real here!

Easily a top 20 player. Totally real.

[KGdaBom]

The timeline doesnt matter anymore?

The timeline should be right now and the next 4 years. KAT and Russell are the age where they should be there very best.

[Merc_Porto]

The timeline doesnt matter anymore?

The timeline should be right now and the next 4 years. KAT and Russell are the age where they should be there very best.

But not Jrue.

[KGdaBom]

We need a third star, because it gives us biggest chance to start winning in West Conference. Rosas delivered a sign of his geniality by turning water into wine, i.e. Wiggins into DLo. However, it is almost impossible to acquire a young star in this league without giving away many assets. E.g. Simmons or Booker trade would probably mean a combination of #1, #17, Culver, JJ, Layman, Okogie, Reid, 2023 and 2025 unprotected picks. It also must be a baby max contract. Otherwise, we wont have any cap space at all.

Second scenario is to get a young player who can outperform his current multiyear contract, such as Aaron Gordon, Caris LeVert, DeJonte Murray. In my opinion they can play much better in MIN because of KAT-DLo.

Last scenario is a proven player in his prime, who plays close to star level, but comes with some risks. E.g. Jrue Holiday, Oladipo, Hayward. Sure, we cant afford paying them max contract. The question is who of these group is willing to resign with us for multi-year deal slightly below max? If Holiday accepts 25-30 mil per year deal, it is a fantastic deal for us. I'm sure a trio of KAT-DLo-Holiday would play competitive basketball and I'm sure that Rosas and Gupta would fill our roster with role players on team-friendly deals such Nowell, Reid, Martin, Layman etc.

Absolutely. KAT, Russell and Holiday is the makings of a very good lineup.

[KGdaBom]

The timeline doesnt matter anymore?

The timeline should be right now and the next 4 years. KAT and Russell are the age where they should be there very best.

But not Jrue.

He's still incredible and should be so for the next 4 years.

[KGdaBom]

We need a third star, because it gives us biggest chance to start winning in West Conference. Rosas delivered a sign of his geniality by turning water into wine, i.e. Wiggins into DLo. However, it is almost impossible to acquire a young star in this league without giving away many assets. E.g. Simmons or Booker trade would probably mean a combination of #1, #17, Culver, JJ, Layman, Okogie, Reid, 2023 and 2025 unprotected picks. It also must be a baby max contract. Otherwise, we wont have any cap space at all.

Second scenario is to get a young player who can outperform his current multiyear contract, such as Aaron Gordon, Caris LeVert, DeJonte Murray. In my opinion they can play much better in MIN because of KAT-DLo.

Last scenario is a proven player in his prime, who plays close to star level, but comes with some risks. E.g. Jrue Holiday, Oladipo, Hayward. Sure, we cant afford paying them max contract. The question is who of these group is willing to resign with us for multi-year deal slightly below max? If Holiday accepts 25-30 mil per year deal, it is a fantastic deal for us. I'm sure a trio of KAT-DLo-Holiday would play competitive basketball and I'm sure that Rosas and Gupta would fill our roster with role players on team-friendly deals such Nowell, Reid, Martin, Layman etc.

I’m hesitant to drop too many assets this early in the process. Typically when this type of move is made, you have some idea where the holes lie within your team. We don’t know that yet because of the unexpected end to last season. Unless it’s a blockbuster for Booker, Simmons or Beal, I’d rather wait until the trade deadline to unload our assets. The only reason I’m comfortable with making a move for those three, is because of what’s left on their contract.

Holiday IMO is the same tier as those.

[Merc_Porto]

We need a third star, because it gives us biggest chance to start winning in West Conference. Rosas delivered a sign of his geniality by turning water into wine, i.e. Wiggins into DLo. However, it is almost impossible to acquire a young star in this league without giving away many assets. E.g. Simmons or Booker trade would probably mean a combination of #1, #17, Culver, JJ, Layman, Okogie, Reid, 2023 and 2025 unprotected picks. It also must be a baby max contract. Otherwise, we wont have any cap space at all.

Second scenario is to get a young player who can outperform his current multiyear contract, such as Aaron Gordon, Caris LeVert, DeJonte Murray. In my opinion they can play much better in MIN because of KAT-DLo.

Last scenario is a proven player in his prime, who plays close to star level, but comes with some risks. E.g. Jrue Holiday, Oladipo, Hayward. Sure, we cant afford paying them max contract. The question is who of these group is willing to resign with us for multi-year deal slightly below max? If Holiday accepts 25-30 mil per year deal, it is a fantastic deal for us. I'm sure a trio of KAT-DLo-Holiday would play competitive basketball and I'm sure that Rosas and Gupta would fill our roster with role players on team-friendly deals such Nowell, Reid, Martin, Layman etc.

If somehow Edwards becomes a star and we trade the pick.
Thats going to be another Timberwolves regret...

At this point i draft Edwards, try to trade the #17 and maybe Culver for a PF (Gordon) and sign a guy like Joe Harris.
Perfect balanced team. Perfect timeline. And yes, i believe this is a playoff team.

Russell
Edwards
Joe Harris
Gordon
KAT

[Merc_Porto]

Complicating things is what that dumb Thibs did for us and ruined all.
Lets not do the same mistake.

[KGdaBom]

We need a third star, because it gives us biggest chance to start winning in West Conference. Rosas delivered a sign of his geniality by turning water into wine, i.e. Wiggins into DLo. However, it is almost impossible to acquire a young star in this league without giving away many assets. E.g. Simmons or Booker trade would probably mean a combination of #1, #17, Culver, JJ, Layman, Okogie, Reid, 2023 and 2025 unprotected picks. It also must be a baby max contract. Otherwise, we wont have any cap space at all.

Second scenario is to get a young player who can outperform his current multiyear contract, such as Aaron Gordon, Caris LeVert, DeJonte Murray. In my opinion they can play much better in MIN because of KAT-DLo.

Last scenario is a proven player in his prime, who plays close to star level, but comes with some risks. E.g. Jrue Holiday, Oladipo, Hayward. Sure, we cant afford paying them max contract. The question is who of these group is willing to resign with us for multi-year deal slightly below max? If Holiday accepts 25-30 mil per year deal, it is a fantastic deal for us. I'm sure a trio of KAT-DLo-Holiday would play competitive basketball and I'm sure that Rosas and Gupta would fill our roster with role players on team-friendly deals such Nowell, Reid, Martin, Layman etc.

If somehow Edwards becomes a star and we trade the pick.
Thats going to be another Timberwolves regret...

At this point i draft Edwards, try to trade the #17 and maybe Culver for a PF (Gordon) and sign a guy like Joe Harris.
Perfect balanced team. Perfect timeline. And yes, i believe this is a playoff team.

Russell
Edwards
Joe Harris
Gordon
KAT

Edwards is unlikely to be a star. Holiday is a star. Sure he's probably only got 4 real good years left, but I prefer that to no good years.
Holiday trade or draft Wiseman. Go Wolves.

[fattymcgee]

We need a third star, because it gives us biggest chance to start winning in West Conference. Rosas delivered a sign of his geniality by turning water into wine, i.e. Wiggins into DLo. However, it is almost impossible to acquire a young star in this league without giving away many assets. E.g. Simmons or Booker trade would probably mean a combination of #1, #17, Culver, JJ, Layman, Okogie, Reid, 2023 and 2025 unprotected picks. It also must be a baby max contract. Otherwise, we wont have any cap space at all.

Second scenario is to get a young player who can outperform his current multiyear contract, such as Aaron Gordon, Caris LeVert, DeJonte Murray. In my opinion they can play much better in MIN because of KAT-DLo.

Last scenario is a proven player in his prime, who plays close to star level, but comes with some risks. E.g. Jrue Holiday, Oladipo, Hayward. Sure, we cant afford paying them max contract. The question is who of these group is willing to resign with us for multi-year deal slightly below max? If Holiday accepts 25-30 mil per year deal, it is a fantastic deal for us. I'm sure a trio of KAT-DLo-Holiday would play competitive basketball and I'm sure that Rosas and Gupta would fill our roster with role players on team-friendly deals such Nowell, Reid, Martin, Layman etc.

If somehow Edwards becomes a star and we trade the pick.
Thats going to be another Timberwolves regret...

At this point i draft Edwards, try to trade the #17 and maybe Culver for a PF (Gordon) and sign a guy like Joe Harris.
Perfect balanced team. Perfect timeline. And yes, i believe this is a playoff team.

Russell
Edwards
Joe Harris
Gordon
KAT

Edwards is unlikely to be a star. Holiday is a star. Sure he's probably only got 4 real good years left, but I prefer that to no good years.
Holiday trade or draft Wiseman. Go Wolves.

I don't think you can call Jrue a star when his last (and only) all-star appearance was 8 seasons ago.
Definitely NOT top 20. Very good player, but not top 20 and it wont take the #1 overall to get him.

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[Neeva]

Glad some agree with me that the first pick is an overpay for Holiday.
It is also depressing as heck that a team like the Pelicans can possibly get the top pick again by trading their third best asset. What is the wolves third best asset? DLO he sure as heck aint bringing back a number one pick...

[Merc_Porto]

We need a third star, because it gives us biggest chance to start winning in West Conference. Rosas delivered a sign of his geniality by turning water into wine, i.e. Wiggins into DLo. However, it is almost impossible to acquire a young star in this league without giving away many assets. E.g. Simmons or Booker trade would probably mean a combination of #1, #17, Culver, JJ, Layman, Okogie, Reid, 2023 and 2025 unprotected picks. It also must be a baby max contract. Otherwise, we wont have any cap space at all.

Second scenario is to get a young player who can outperform his current multiyear contract, such as Aaron Gordon, Caris LeVert, DeJonte Murray. In my opinion they can play much better in MIN because of KAT-DLo.

Last scenario is a proven player in his prime, who plays close to star level, but comes with some risks. E.g. Jrue Holiday, Oladipo, Hayward. Sure, we cant afford paying them max contract. The question is who of these group is willing to resign with us for multi-year deal slightly below max? If Holiday accepts 25-30 mil per year deal, it is a fantastic deal for us. I'm sure a trio of KAT-DLo-Holiday would play competitive basketball and I'm sure that Rosas and Gupta would fill our roster with role players on team-friendly deals such Nowell, Reid, Martin, Layman etc.

If somehow Edwards becomes a star and we trade the pick.
Thats going to be another Timberwolves regret...

At this point i draft Edwards, try to trade the #17 and maybe Culver for a PF (Gordon) and sign a guy like Joe Harris.
Perfect balanced team. Perfect timeline. And yes, i believe this is a playoff team.

Russell
Edwards
Joe Harris
Gordon
KAT

Edwards is unlikely to be a star. Holiday is a star. Sure he's probably only got 4 real good years left, but I prefer that to no good years.
Holiday trade or draft Wiseman. Go Wolves.

Jrue is not moving the needle for such high price.
If we make a deal like this, then we cant make other deals.

And we still need to fill other positions.

[jpatrick]

If we’re going to trade #1 for a soon to be 31 year old (Holiday) and pay him 30m/year up until his 35 year old season, Rosas HAS to have other moves that would actually makes a WCF’s contender. Holiday alone doesn’t do it.

If he gets Holiday and then Gallinari and maybe move up to grab Okoro, I’m on board. That team would be heavy into the luxury tax though. But something like that.

[SO_MONEY]

I don't buy we are interested in Jrue. There I said it.

[Neeva]

If we’re going to trade #1 for a soon to be 31 year old (Holiday) and pay him 30m/year up until his 35 year old season, Rosas HAS to have other moves that would actually makes a WCF’s contender. Holiday alone doesn’t do it.

If he gets Holiday and then Gallinari and maybe move up to grab Okoro, I’m on board. That team would be heavy into the luxury tax though. But something like that.

Closes the door shut on a possible future trade for Devin Booker also, don’t see Suns being interested in 32 year old Holiday.