Time for Saunders to go?

[Baseline81]

At this point just keep him. We need to try and make sure we have the best chance at that top three pick!

Should the Wolves finish as one of the bottom three teams, here are the lottery percentages:

1 - 14.0%
2 - 13.4%
3 - 12.7%
4 - 12.0% (pick would covey to Golden State)

40.1% chance to keep. 59.9% chance it's off to the Warriors.

[AbeVigodaLive]

No. I don't think this team is 8 - 13 with another coach. I think there is zero chance they'd be even better than that. The Wolves are 30th on offense. 26th on defense. The team's expected W/L is 5 - 16.

Maybe a win or even two? Obviously last night and the Orlando game come to mind. It's pretty crazy those games were lost. But really bad teams lose really bad games in really bad ways. No other organization in the history of the NBA has this experience more than we do as Wolves fans. So it amazes me that we still complain about coach-after-coach-after coach for the same things.

As for empowering Russell... yes. This is a league of entitled players, as noted. Unfortunately, the Wolves have entitled guys like Wiggins and Russell in recent years instead of guys like Giannis, Jokic or Embiid... or even Middleton, Murray and Simmons.

What should Saunders do? Bench Russell? While you and I might agree... that's simply not how the NBA works. You live and die by your stars. Saunders knows he's not long for this gig. But alienating star players without any credibility as a head coach at this point probably does more damage in what's sure to be a long career as an assistant NBA coach.

We talk about Popovich as some sage disciplinarian. Does he bench Russell in that situation? Doubtful. But maybe. Does he do it as a 34-year-old cutting his chops on a very bad team in a league run by the star players? No. But there's another angle here... what are the odds Russell is even on the Spurs with his track record? That organization has an established culture of accountability.

Saunders has twice called out Russell's hero ball after the games... without saying his name aloud. Both times, Russell took zero responsibility for his poor performance. He's not changing. He is who he is. And Rosas should have known that when he was acquired.

Like it or not... Russell has a lot more clout than Saunders. And we're seeing what that means.




[Note: It's even funny to see it in challenge situations. Saunders has been justly ripped for not using them at key moments multiple times. Now, we've seen in back-to-back games where Russell wants a challenge... and gets it. Yesterday's was during a rather innocuous moment in the 2nd or 3rd quarter. But Russell wanted the challenge... Russell got the challenge. All this is a long way of saying that Saunders can try to instill a culture of accountability... but it's not going to work coming from a 34-year-old green coach. It has to be demanded at every level of the organization. We haven't seen that in Minnesota in many years... if ever.]

We'll agree to disagree on the team's record.

As to what I underlined, why is benching the only option here? For instance, on the last play of the game, is Saunders incapable of drawing up a play for someone other than Russell? As many pointed out, Beasley was the better shooter last night. Or is Saunders being "forced" to feed Russell?

I don't know. I'd hope he's smart enough... or one of his 7 assistants... were smart enough to have a better option in place.

But I know Hero Ball has become the tactic du jour in so many of these late-game cases. I don't really dig the strategy personally.

[shangrila]

If we don't have those 3 epic, historic collapses we'd be 8-13. Still not great but far more acceptable given what we've been through with injuries and COVID. And I blame Saunders for all 3 of them.

I just...I don't see what he does at even a "good" level. Our defence sucks, our offensive system is non-existent and his players don't play hard for him. If there was something he was good at and he just had to work at the others maybe I'd cut him some slack but there doesn't seem to be anything. His sole claim to fame seems to be unleashing Towns but at this point that clearly had more to do with Thibs than anything else.

[Jedzz]

At this point just keep him. We need to try and make sure we have the best chance at that top three pick!

Should the Wolves finish as one of the bottom three teams, here are the lottery percentages:

1 - 14.0%
2 - 13.4%
3 - 12.7%
4 - 12.0% (pick would covey to Golden State)

40.1% chance to keep. 59.9% chance it's off to the Warriors.

Yes. The tank to save the pick people really piss me off. So you tank, lose it anyway when it ends up pick 4,5,6 anyway. If you happen to keep it you just signed on for completely unprotecting your 2022 pick. Meanwhile you taught your new team of players how to be losers just like the last set of players.

[IceManBK1]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Dwayne Casey, Rick Carlisle, Eric spolstra...

[WolfAddict]

Ultimately, Abe’s point is that Wolves coaches should not be held accountable.

And I disagree.

I don't agree with a lot of what Abe is saying, but this is just plain wrong and not needed.

He's said a number of times that the coaching staff are all to blame to a certain degree, so to say otherwise is either disingenuous or baiting for the sake of it.

[thinktank]

Ultimately, Abe’s point is that Wolves coaches should not be held accountable.

And I disagree.

I don't agree with a lot of what Abe is saying, but this is just plain wrong and not needed.

He's said a number of times that the coaching staff are all to blame to a certain degree, so to say otherwise is either disingenuous or baiting for the sake of it.

Not baiting.

He’s saying firing Saunders won’t improve the team.

I disagree. And...

How else can Rosas hold Saunders accountable?

Send him a verbal message?

If yes, what is that message and how do you expect to enforce it?

[WolfAddict]

Ultimately, Abe’s point is that Wolves coaches should not be held accountable.

And I disagree.

I don't agree with a lot of what Abe is saying, but this is just plain wrong and not needed.

He's said a number of times that the coaching staff are all to blame to a certain degree, so to say otherwise is either disingenuous or baiting for the sake of it.

Not baiting.

He’s saying firing Saunders won’t improve the team.

I disagree. And...

How else do you make Saunders accountable?

Really? Firing someone is the only way to make them accountable? That I disagree with for sure - Accountability is accepting that the onus is on you, and admitting mistakes have been made.

Accountability does not equate to punishment

You sound like you'd be a fun boss...

[Baseline81]

Really? Firing someone is the only way to make them accountable? That I disagree with for sure - Accountability is accepting that the onus is on you, and admitting mistakes have been made.

Accountability does not equate to punishment

You sound like you'd be a fun boss...

I recall an article in which Rosas said the current state of the team was unacceptable. EDIT: Article was published January 23.

How many more chances are you will to going to give Saunders? Because it seems he's had one too many than the average coach.

[WolfAddict]

Really? Firing someone is the only way to make them accountable? That I disagree with for sure - Accountability is accepting that the onus is on you, and admitting mistakes have been made.

Accountability does not equate to punishment

You sound like you'd be a fun boss...

I recall an article in which Rosas said the current state of the team was unacceptable. EDIT: Article was published January 23.

How many more chances are you will to going to give Saunders? Because it seems he's had one too many than the average coach.

Again, why do you think accountability needs to equate to punishment? Are we all still at school or something?

[Baseline81]

Again, why do you think accountability needs to equate to punishment? Are we all still at school or something?

Reread what I wrote. It's clear Rosas and Saunders spoke. He felt the team's record, despite not having Towns, was unacceptable. At that point, there was no punishment given. Yet, the poor results have continued since. Punishment is needed at some point.

Saunders, in the press conference last night, admitted he needs to due better, the team needs to do better. Accountability is not only accepting when you've made mistakes. It's also knowing the consequences of not correcting those mistakes.

[WolfAddict]

Again, why do you think accountability needs to equate to punishment? Are we all still at school or something?

Reread what I wrote. It's clear Rosas and Saunders spoke. He felt the team's record, despite not having Towns, was unacceptable. At that point, there was no punishment given. Yet, the poor results have continued since. Punishment is needed at some point.

Saunders, in the press conference last night, admitted he needs to due better, the team needs to do better. Accountability is not only accepting when you've made mistakes. It's also knowing the consequences of not correcting those mistakes.

Again, these people are adults in a working environment - Unless something has been done illegally or immorally, nobody needs to be "punished"

This is a REALLY immature take in my opinion.

[Baseline81]

Again, these people are adults in a working environment - Unless something has been done illegally or immorally, nobody needs to be "punished"

This is a REALLY immature take in my opinion.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you were the first to equate firing and punishment.

[Dewey]

Ryan’s needs to regroup ... I’m just as disappoint in the assistants. These guys are a team I need to assume they all have had their chance to speak up on key issues.

I’m still onboard with MJ: “players win and lose games”.

The only real benefit to coaching changes is there is sometimes a honeymoon period where players step up because they don’t want to appear to they were the problem.... but it always shakes out in the end.

[karch34]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Dwayne Casey, Rick Carlisle, Eric spolstra...

Dwayne Casey is arguably best coach in franchise history. I'd take him.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Ultimately, Abe’s point is that Wolves coaches should not be held accountable.

And I disagree.

I don't agree with a lot of what Abe is saying, but this is just plain wrong and not needed.

He's said a number of times that the coaching staff are all to blame to a certain degree, so to say otherwise is either disingenuous or baiting for the sake of it.

Yeah. Don't really know what's so disturbing about what I've written.

1) Saunders is not a good coach.
2) Fire him if you want. It's inevitable he'll be fired. I'm not even arguing he doesn't deserve to be fired.
3) It's not about one coach. The Wolves have EIGHT coaches for a reason. They all have input. Just moving one over a chair in the interim role... ok. But the same guys will be making the decisions they're already making. Only we'll have a new guy to address the media about it.
4) Wolves fans tend to blame coaches A LOT over the years... when it's a players league and they have so much more impact on wins and losses. But I guess it's easier to hold out hope in the players and that the the situation is not entirely dire. So if the argument is that Russell or Towns or Beasley or other important player has tuned out Saunders... ok. Connecting with the star players is probably the most important part of the gig. Having Russell on the same page as the coach WILL make the Wolves a better team. The question is whether an interim guy has any more clout than the super green Saunders?

So fire away. My point is that the team still sucks without Towns out there... and maybe even with him.

[Baseline81]

Reading Canis Hoopus, this post from DJango Z caught my eye:

I do the same thing every day
But I try not to get my hopes up.

I just remind myself that so much more damage can be done and that Taylor won’t let Ryan be fired until all of the damage that is possible has occurred.

So prepare yourself for:
- KAT comes back, they win a few games in a row
- Then they lose a bunch
- Then they win a few
- Welp, the season is 3/4s through, so why make a change now
- Jeepers, it’s almost the end of the season, let’s wait till the off-season
- You know, now that we made the off-season, how about we see what Rosas can do to improve the roster
- 2020-2021 was unusual with no training camp, Ryan deserves a full season with a full camp before we can evaluate him
- Injury, lost draft pick, whatever excuse is made for 2021-2022 season
- There is open talk of a revolt in the locker room, as even the young guys get sick of not having a real coach
- KAT notifies team he would like to be traded
- OH CRAP, we need to fire Ryan and get a real coach, will that make you happy, KAT?
- Too late, KAT is traded
- You know, for the sake of continuity we should keep Ryan as coach, plus he really deserves a chance to coach the players we got in the KAT trade before we evaluate him

Lather, rinse, repeat.

[Dewey]

Reading Canis Hoopus, this post from DJango Z caught my eye:

I do the same thing every day
But I try not to get my hopes up.

I just remind myself that so much more damage can be done and that Taylor won’t let Ryan be fired until all of the damage that is possible has occurred.

So prepare yourself for:
- KAT comes back, they win a few games in a row
- Then they lose a bunch
- Then they win a few
- Welp, the season is 3/4s through, so why make a change now
- Jeepers, it’s almost the end of the season, let’s wait till the off-season
- You know, now that we made the off-season, how about we see what Rosas can do to improve the roster
- 2020-2021 was unusual with no training camp, Ryan deserves a full season with a full camp before we can evaluate him
- Injury, lost draft pick, whatever excuse is made for 2021-2022 season
- There is open talk of a revolt in the locker room, as even the young guys get sick of not having a real coach
- KAT notifies team he would like to be traded
- OH CRAP, we need to fire Ryan and get a real coach, will that make you happy, KAT?
- Too late, KAT is traded
- You know, for the sake of continuity we should keep Ryan as coach, plus he really deserves a chance to coach the players we got in the KAT trade before we evaluate him

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Sounds like some whiny brat that never played competitive sports ...

[Chello1]

At this point just keep him. We need to try and make sure we have the best chance at that top three pick!

Should the Wolves finish as one of the bottom three teams, here are the lottery percentages:

1 - 14.0%
2 - 13.4%
3 - 12.7%
4 - 12.0% (pick would covey to Golden State)

40.1% chance to keep. 59.9% chance it's off to the Warriors.

Yes. The tank to save the pick people really piss me off. So you tank, lose it anyway when it ends up pick 4,5,6 anyway. If you happen to keep it you just signed on for completely unprotecting your 2022 pick. Meanwhile you taught your new team of players how to be losers just like the last set of players.

If you haven't noticed we are losing anyway. I will take the best percentage shot at keeping the pick. We need as many assets as we can get. What are you going to do? Fire him and a new coach wins an extra 5 games? That will really show our boys how to be winners..... LOL Stop already ....

[Jedzz]

Should the Wolves finish as one of the bottom three teams, here are the lottery percentages:

1 - 14.0%
2 - 13.4%
3 - 12.7%
4 - 12.0% (pick would covey to Golden State)

40.1% chance to keep. 59.9% chance it's off to the Warriors.

Yes. The tank to save the pick people really piss me off. So you tank, lose it anyway when it ends up pick 4,5,6 anyway. If you happen to keep it you just signed on for completely unprotecting your 2022 pick. Meanwhile you taught your new team of players how to be losers just like the last set of players.

If you haven't noticed we are losing anyway. I will take the best percentage shot at keeping the pick. We need as many assets as we can get. What are you going to do? Fire him and a new coach wins an extra 5 games? That will really show our boys how to be winners..... LOL Stop already ....

They have been losing because they are indecisive about what they are doing. Most the games without Towns they've just been tanking and developing. A couple of them the majority of the team seemed to be trying yet the coaches were not. A couple players have been giving it everything and want to win. Ask Beasley. The GM and coaches are happy to blow the year developing, the players not so much. It's not a single goal.

Just keep losing like they've been doing for nearly 20 years, hunting draft picks have saved the franchise so many times, right? You will get what you ask for doing so. You act like it's impossible and yet the Heat last year showed how simple it can sometimes be to rope a bunch of competitive players together and get after it with a singular goal of winning. But have to be willing to put the right players out there and try.