Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition

[KGdaBom]

I would much rather have Tyus than McConnell. Tyus is younger, has more offensive game and their defensive numbers aren't that different. Tyus is definitely getting traded by Washington. He's a free agent after this year and there's no way he's coming back to DC.

A Tyus for Kyle/Shake deal works. Minnesota may need to add some assets, but I hope TC tries to bring Tyus home.

I don't think Tyus has more offensive game than TJ. McConnell puts up massive numbers for Indy every time that Haliburton sits. I think they like having him despite barely using him when Hali is healthy.

I just checked to confirm, TJ has never had a year where he shot an average of more than one 3 per game. Tyus has shot just under 3 in 21-22, around 4 in 22-23, and just over 33 so far this season. Floor spacing to go along with facilitating is why guys like Mike can play so well with Rudy. If JMAC could hit a decent clip of deep shots from multiple positions, then he would be a better long term prospect. Ultimately I think Tyus is better than both JMAC and TJ and hopefully with his love for the state a long term Wolf during the Ant and Jaden window. Don’t forget, continuity has a lot of value, especially at the PG.

TJ does very little until they need him then he explodes. That is the history.

[shangrila]

I'm well aware of the repeater tax. You missed my point.

We might not have a team worth paying the tax for in 3 years time. We might never have a team this good again, actually. Prioritising a hypothetical future over a very real present is what's kept this team at the bottom of the barrel for decades.

It would be so disappointing for that mentality to continue now that we're finally good.

Exactly.

Once the trade for Gobert happened, the Wolves pushed all their proverbial chips in.

The phrase of "In for a penny, in for a pound" come to mind...

I do understand both of your positions. That said, the reality of the situation is the owners care more about profit than winning. These are not longtime Minnesota guys or fans. These are two guys who pooled their money and experience to buy a profitable investment with cool perks. Even if they have an extra hundred million to spend, they will want return on the investment. Keeping the team good longer is how they make that return. It is how they get better corporate sponsorships, national tv games, better merch sales, and can keep ticket and concession prices high. It is how they get playoff ticket sales and playoff tv money. Our chips are definitely all in, but not just on this year, on the next year and year after as well (The Rudy contract.) We have arguably the best starting 5 in basketball. Mike is aging out, and Rudy will start to reach his natural decline in 2 years, but that doesn’t mean we cannot 3 peat if we make the right moves now. If you lack faith in Finch, in TC, and in our big 5 (all starters but Conley, then add Naz,) then by all means shorten the window to increase our odds this year. But if you believe in the above people, make the changes you can afford and let’s go hang some banners.

You're delusional.

It's absurdly difficult to win a single championship, let alone 3 peat. As a franchise we've never even come close to the former. Even mentioning the latter is ridiculous.

You're right about new ownership though. Apparently they can't even afford to buy the team as is so it's more realistic to be concerned if they can fund payroll let alone the luxury tax.

[winforlose]

Exactly.

Once the trade for Gobert happened, the Wolves pushed all their proverbial chips in.

The phrase of "In for a penny, in for a pound" come to mind...

I do understand both of your positions. That said, the reality of the situation is the owners care more about profit than winning. These are not longtime Minnesota guys or fans. These are two guys who pooled their money and experience to buy a profitable investment with cool perks. Even if they have an extra hundred million to spend, they will want return on the investment. Keeping the team good longer is how they make that return. It is how they get better corporate sponsorships, national tv games, better merch sales, and can keep ticket and concession prices high. It is how they get playoff ticket sales and playoff tv money. Our chips are definitely all in, but not just on this year, on the next year and year after as well (The Rudy contract.) We have arguably the best starting 5 in basketball. Mike is aging out, and Rudy will start to reach his natural decline in 2 years, but that doesn’t mean we cannot 3 peat if we make the right moves now. If you lack faith in Finch, in TC, and in our big 5 (all starters but Conley, then add Naz,) then by all means shorten the window to increase our odds this year. But if you believe in the above people, make the changes you can afford and let’s go hang some banners.

You're delusional.

It's absurdly difficult to win a single championship, let alone 3 peat. As a franchise we've never even come close to the former. Even mentioning the latter is ridiculous.

You're right about new ownership though. Apparently they can't even afford to buy the team as is so it's more realistic to be concerned if they can fund payroll let alone the luxury tax.

I am not delusional, I am optimistic . As a franchise I cannot help but wonder what would have happened if Cassel stayed healthy in 03-04 and we paid Sprewell in 04-05. In any case, we are way more talented this year than that year. We have a lot more defense and defensive depth. Karl may not be what KG was back then, but he is very good for what the game is today. A 50/40/90 who can get you 10-12 boards on any given game and is a willing passer without the KG who (not gonna deck a teammate in practice,) is a good thing. Ant is miles ahead of anyone on that team and still only 22. Jaden has serious game and is learning how to use it to score while also defending at a VERY high level. Rudy is a generational talent learning how to play with our guys. Naz is a younger mini KAT with less upside, but less cost and downside. He can give you 20 on any given night and is a legit 6th man. Beyond that core we have promising young talent, we have guys on affordable deals like TBJ and NAW who I believe want to be here and part of this not only next year but the year after. Why is our playing at contending level (not necessarily winning, but contending,) so out of the question?

[KGdaBom]

Exactly.

Once the trade for Gobert happened, the Wolves pushed all their proverbial chips in.

The phrase of "In for a penny, in for a pound" come to mind...

I do understand both of your positions. That said, the reality of the situation is the owners care more about profit than winning. These are not longtime Minnesota guys or fans. These are two guys who pooled their money and experience to buy a profitable investment with cool perks. Even if they have an extra hundred million to spend, they will want return on the investment. Keeping the team good longer is how they make that return. It is how they get better corporate sponsorships, national tv games, better merch sales, and can keep ticket and concession prices high. It is how they get playoff ticket sales and playoff tv money. Our chips are definitely all in, but not just on this year, on the next year and year after as well (The Rudy contract.) We have arguably the best starting 5 in basketball. Mike is aging out, and Rudy will start to reach his natural decline in 2 years, but that doesn’t mean we cannot 3 peat if we make the right moves now. If you lack faith in Finch, in TC, and in our big 5 (all starters but Conley, then add Naz,) then by all means shorten the window to increase our odds this year. But if you believe in the above people, make the changes you can afford and let’s go hang some banners.

You're delusional.

It's absurdly difficult to win a single championship, let alone 3 peat. As a franchise we've never even come close to the former. Even mentioning the latter is ridiculous.

You're right about new ownership though. Apparently they can't even afford to buy the team as is so it's more realistic to be concerned if they can fund payroll let alone the luxury tax.

We came close to the former. If Sam Cassell doesn't get injured during the Lakers series we easily beat them and Detroit in the 2004 finals.

[BlacJacMac]

I do understand both of your positions. That said, the reality of the situation is the owners care more about profit than winning. These are not longtime Minnesota guys or fans. These are two guys who pooled their money and experience to buy a profitable investment with cool perks. Even if they have an extra hundred million to spend, they will want return on the investment. Keeping the team good longer is how they make that return. It is how they get better corporate sponsorships, national tv games, better merch sales, and can keep ticket and concession prices high. It is how they get playoff ticket sales and playoff tv money. Our chips are definitely all in, but not just on this year, on the next year and year after as well (The Rudy contract.) We have arguably the best starting 5 in basketball. Mike is aging out, and Rudy will start to reach his natural decline in 2 years, but that doesn’t mean we cannot 3 peat if we make the right moves now. If you lack faith in Finch, in TC, and in our big 5 (all starters but Conley, then add Naz,) then by all means shorten the window to increase our odds this year. But if you believe in the above people, make the changes you can afford and let’s go hang some banners.

You're delusional.

It's absurdly difficult to win a single championship, let alone 3 peat. As a franchise we've never even come close to the former. Even mentioning the latter is ridiculous.

You're right about new ownership though. Apparently they can't even afford to buy the team as is so it's more realistic to be concerned if they can fund payroll let alone the luxury tax.

We came close to the former. If Sam Cassell doesn't get injured during the Lakers series we easily beat them and Detroit in the 2004 finals.

But he did get hurt.

Winning 2 games in the WCF isn't "coming close" to winning a title.

[shangrila]

I do understand both of your positions. That said, the reality of the situation is the owners care more about profit than winning. These are not longtime Minnesota guys or fans. These are two guys who pooled their money and experience to buy a profitable investment with cool perks. Even if they have an extra hundred million to spend, they will want return on the investment. Keeping the team good longer is how they make that return. It is how they get better corporate sponsorships, national tv games, better merch sales, and can keep ticket and concession prices high. It is how they get playoff ticket sales and playoff tv money. Our chips are definitely all in, but not just on this year, on the next year and year after as well (The Rudy contract.) We have arguably the best starting 5 in basketball. Mike is aging out, and Rudy will start to reach his natural decline in 2 years, but that doesn’t mean we cannot 3 peat if we make the right moves now. If you lack faith in Finch, in TC, and in our big 5 (all starters but Conley, then add Naz,) then by all means shorten the window to increase our odds this year. But if you believe in the above people, make the changes you can afford and let’s go hang some banners.

You're delusional.

It's absurdly difficult to win a single championship, let alone 3 peat. As a franchise we've never even come close to the former. Even mentioning the latter is ridiculous.

You're right about new ownership though. Apparently they can't even afford to buy the team as is so it's more realistic to be concerned if they can fund payroll let alone the luxury tax.

We came close to the former. If Sam Cassell doesn't get injured during the Lakers series we easily beat them and Detroit in the 2004 finals.

Not going to touch a hypothetical like that.

The Phoenix Suns came close when they lost to Milwaukee. Us losing in the WCF, regardless of how it happened, isn't the same.

[jpatrick]

Tyus only makes sense if we see him as our longterm starter and plan to cut Conley loose after this season. Otherwise, we can’t afford to resign Tyus. As far as the Indiana point guards, I don’t think they are much of an upgrade on this team. We can’t bring in another player that can’t shoot, PG or not, and neither Indiana PG can do that.

That’s what makes Morris so attractive. Can run the offense some with point guard skills and can shoot at a much higher level than Jones, Nembhart, or McConnell.

Injury-wise with Morris, no idea. And as far as a trade, it’d have to include Shake and enough other contracts to make it salary neutral. Not sure that’s possible. I don’t see us moving Anderson in any deal this year.

[KGdaBom]

You're delusional.

It's absurdly difficult to win a single championship, let alone 3 peat. As a franchise we've never even come close to the former. Even mentioning the latter is ridiculous.

You're right about new ownership though. Apparently they can't even afford to buy the team as is so it's more realistic to be concerned if they can fund payroll let alone the luxury tax.

We came close to the former. If Sam Cassell doesn't get injured during the Lakers series we easily beat them and Detroit in the 2004 finals.

But he did get hurt.

Winning 2 games in the WCF isn't "coming close" to winning a title.

I consider one injury away coming close.

[BlacJacMac]

We came close to the former. If Sam Cassell doesn't get injured during the Lakers series we easily beat them and Detroit in the 2004 finals.

But he did get hurt.

Winning 2 games in the WCF isn't "coming close" to winning a title.

I consider one injury away coming close.

I would too - if he had gotten hurt late in the NBA Finals.

Otherwise its just speculation - informed or not.

Its like saying the Vikings came close to winning a Super Bowl in 98 (or 2017).

[winforlose]

1. Would you rather have the 03-04 Wolves or the 24-25 wolves running it back?

2. Tyus is expiring. You don’t trade for him unless you are confident he would take a one year haircut to play championship ball. After that Mike is your backup and you pay Tyus what you can. He would be playing high level basketball for his hometown.

3. Health is always a factor in every season. The healthy teams usually go deeper in the playoffs. Take away the right players and any team because super vulnerable in the playoffs. All you can do is build for depth and pray for the best.

[Dewey]

IMO acquire a backup PG to finish out the season - then get a PG for the future in the draft. Mikes future is short. Doesn’t seem that complicated

[winforlose]

IMO acquire a backup PG to finish out the season - then get a PG for the future in the draft. Mikes future is short. Doesn’t seem that complicated

Can you draft a starting PG with the 28-30 pick in the draft?

[Mamba4Goat]

IMO acquire a backup PG to finish out the season - then get a PG for the future in the draft. Mikes future is short. Doesn’t seem that complicated

Can you draft a starting PG with the 28-30 pick in the draft?

Usually there’s either a bucket getter type that’s rough defensively or an older floor general type that isn’t a great scorer available in that range. Depending on which way you want to roll the dice the Wolves could land one of each with their 1st and the worst of Wiz/Mem 2nd. But…they take the risk of letting someone take the next Steph Curry after their two guards.

[KGdaBom]

IMO acquire a backup PG to finish out the season - then get a PG for the future in the draft. Mikes future is short. Doesn’t seem that complicated

Can you draft a starting PG with the 28-30 pick in the draft?

usually not.

[Domejandro]

Minnesota absolutely will not risk going into the Luxury-Tax this year, that would nuke the team's ability to dip into the Luxury-Tax in future years.

They have just over $800k to play with, it is what it is.

I'd be disappointed if they thought like this.

A lot can change during the season but as of right now this is the best start in franchise history and this might end up being the best season/team we've ever had, with no guarantees that it will carry over. Conley might leave, retire or otherwise decline. Anderson might move on. Players might get injured. Age might start catching up to Rudy.

Prioritising the future over now is what led to the last 2 decades of terrible basketball. And honestly, if ownership isn't willing to pay the tax for this team then when will they be?

This isn’t “prioritizing the future”, as much as being realistic about Minnesota’s cap situation. Going into the Luxury-Tax for a marginal upgrade would be exceptionally irresponsible, given Minnesota’s financial obligations, moving forward. Minnesota doesn’t have the assets (Or matching contracts) for a substantial upgrade anyways, but diving into the Luxury-Tax and starting the timer on the Repeater Tax would be an insane mistake to make.

I get the sentiment behind throwing caution to the wind, but we are talking about completely nuking the team’s entire ability to function moving forward. It just wouldn’t be wise, I can’t overstate how obscene the Repeater Tax penalties are, Minnesota would have to completely nuke their roster.

[cmoss84]

Let's say we end up with something like the 28th and 33rd picks. If we traded both, would we be able to get down to around 20ish?

Would you rather keep both or trade down? I know we are going to need some cheap contracts to help balance our salary cap situation, but it seems we have enough cheap, fringe-ready guys to not make that a priority in the draft...

[winforlose]

Let's say we end up with something like the 28th and 33rd picks. If we traded both, would we be able to get down to around 20ish?

Would you rather keep both or trade down? I know we are going to need some cheap contracts to help balance our salary cap situation, but it seems we have enough cheap, fringe-ready guys to not make that a priority in the draft...

15 roster spots. We already have Minott, Miller, Moore, and we presumably want Garza (cheap, good shooter, knows our system,) that is four rotation spots with questionable minutes. We still have all starters but Mike, plus Naz and NAW under contract. That is 9 (10 with Garza, which I think we want,) then you control TBJ on a cheap deal so you keep him. Now you have 11 with one two way in Clarke. You need 14 and two more two ways. Our first is number 12. We may bring back Nix, because Finch likes him. So one two way (maybe a second round pick,) plus two free agents (Mike is my hope for one of them.)

Forgot to add: consolidation of the pick makes sense.

[KGdaBom]

Let's say we end up with something like the 28th and 33rd picks. If we traded both, would we be able to get down to around 20ish?

Would you rather keep both or trade down? I know we are going to need some cheap contracts to help balance our salary cap situation, but it seems we have enough cheap, fringe-ready guys to not make that a priority in the draft...

Given Connelly's demonstrated skill of getting very good players from late first and early 2nds. I say stand pat.

[winforlose]

Let's say we end up with something like the 28th and 33rd picks. If we traded both, would we be able to get down to around 20ish?

Would you rather keep both or trade down? I know we are going to need some cheap contracts to help balance our salary cap situation, but it seems we have enough cheap, fringe-ready guys to not make that a priority in the draft...

Given Connelly's demonstrated skill of getting very good players from late first and early 2nds. I say stand pat.

Do you sign the 2nd round as a two way?

[MN7725]

Tyus only makes sense if we see him as our longterm starter and plan to cut Conley loose after this season. Otherwise, we can’t afford to resign Tyus. As far as the Indiana point guards, I don’t think they are much of an upgrade on this team. We can’t bring in another player that can’t shoot, PG or not, and neither Indiana PG can do that.

That’s what makes Morris so attractive. Can run the offense some with point guard skills and can shoot at a much higher level than Jones, Nembhart, or McConnell.

Injury-wise with Morris, no idea. And as far as a trade, it’d have to include Shake and enough other contracts to make it salary neutral. Not sure that’s possible. I don’t see us moving Anderson in any deal this year.

I''d almost rather have Alec Burks from the Pistons than Morris

Burks is a guy that i've thought was underrated for couple seasons

he lost a couple years due to injury after being a somewhat disappointing younger player with Jazz

good shooter, handles the ball well enough that Thibs used him as starting PG for a stretch when he was on Knicks
not a great defender but has good size and rebounds pretty well, not some that you can really target defensively like Morris

makes $10.5 mil, so pretty much need to have K Anderson+ salary being sent out (Morris could be straight up)

I appreciate what KA brings, and understand the chemistry angle, but he's never been very effective in playoffs with his game

Wolves just need more "bucket getters" than they have, guys that can create in half court in playoff intensity
right now its ANT and the hope that Jaden can take his game to next level offensively

I don't see Wolves moving KA though, so would have to be lower salary player if they make a move