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Rotation thread 2024/2025

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Re: Rotation thread 2024/2025 

Post#281 » by Sealab2024 » Fri Oct 18, 2024 10:35 pm

shrink wrote:You guys have gotten me to re-examine how I look at roster building. For a couple decades, I’ve always thought that every team wants a third PG for emergencies, like a Jordan MacLaughlin, or a third center if they need to bang against another team with that size, like carrying a Greg Monroe. In the beginning of the season, I was even expressing that need at PG.

However, times are changing. Teams don’t need PG’s to do the play-making, because we are seeing it from stars at all positions. Suddenly, the passing of tiny PG’s doesn’t make up for their inability to defend switches on bigger players. I have always conceived of the traditional PG like Conley, but now you see the ball in the hands of a Luka or even Jokic, and that need for a third string PG may not be so great any more. After Conley, maybe we can get enough playmaking from Ant, DDV, Randle, NAW and a developing Dillingham to make it not worth a roster spot?

The same may be becoming true for traditional centers. In the modern NBA, the more a rim-protecting center can also be mobile and shoot three’s, the greater additional value he has. That said, last year we have been able to use our size to batter opponents because their roster construction didn’t have enough bigs for 48 minutes, when they had to go against multiple good 6-9 and bigger players (Gobert, Towns, SloMo, Jaden, Naz). I like having size as an advantage, and replacing Towns and Kyle Anderson with just Randle feels like, while they might not win, the 2023 Wolves could beat up the 2024 team with size.

Maybe I’m still old-fashion, but I’d like us to have one other really big guy available. I would hope with 18 roster spots, we could find the space.


The thing I think some forget is that Jaden can easily slide to the 4 giving us Rudy, Naz, and then Luka as possible centers, which is a pretty good 3 deep it just lacks somewhat defensively after Rudy. Jaden is the one guy who I think actually has a bad height and weight listing. We all know in general NBA players (and teams) give themselves an inch or two on team listings but I think Jaden is a legit 6'9" which in NBA terms makes him equivalent to closer to 6'11". If you stand him next to other guys listed at 6'9" he's obviously taller and was only an inch or two shorter than Karl who's listed a 7. As for his weight he's gotta be around 225-230. Side by sides of him as a rookie compared to today are striking. Last season he honestly started to look like a tank. Or at least a very fit Pterodactyl.

My guess is within a year or two he's a full time power forward who can defend the perimeter. Honestly I think it's easily his best position offensively since he can use his speed to get by slower 4's.

We could still use another rim protector, but IMHO we have plenty of size to throw at people.
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Re: Rotation thread 2024/2025 

Post#282 » by Klomp » Sat Oct 19, 2024 12:37 am

Norseman79 wrote:
Klomp wrote:
frankenwolf wrote:Or maybe, Finch is a step ahead and just made the league think that two bigs were a good thing. Now he's going to destroy them with a bunch of 6-6 to 6-10 fast guys that shoot threes and layups. :D :D

I'll be honest, I kind of thought about this too.

To be far, Finch's thing has always been about SKILLED bigs. I think skilled size always beats skilled without size. I think we've done a pretty good job of building a roster of skilled size. Maybe not perfect, but I don't think other teams put the same priority on the skill as the Wolves have done. Naz and Jaden especially are two cheat codes in this regard.


This I agree with.

Though Naz is really not that big for a 4, he is above average.

But when you think about what a lot of teams need to do to put someone with that skill level at the 4, it's probably someone considerably smaller than Naz.
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Re: Rotation thread 2024/2025 

Post#283 » by Norseman79 » Sat Oct 19, 2024 12:59 am

Klomp wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:
Klomp wrote:I'll be honest, I kind of thought about this too.

To be far, Finch's thing has always been about SKILLED bigs. I think skilled size always beats skilled without size. I think we've done a pretty good job of building a roster of skilled size. Maybe not perfect, but I don't think other teams put the same priority on the skill as the Wolves have done. Naz and Jaden especially are two cheat codes in this regard.


This I agree with.

Though Naz is really not that big for a 4, he is above average.

But when you think about what a lot of teams need to do to put someone with that skill level at the 4, it's probably someone considerably smaller than Naz.


You mean as a starting 4 or a backup one?
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Re: Rotation thread 2024/2025 

Post#284 » by Klomp » Sat Oct 19, 2024 1:07 am

Norseman79 wrote:You mean as a starting 4 or a backup one?

Either
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Re: Rotation thread 2024/2025 

Post#285 » by Norseman79 » Sat Oct 19, 2024 1:29 am

Klomp wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:You mean as a starting 4 or a backup one?

Either



You are kidding right? As a backup 4 I could see your point, but as a starting 4?
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Re: Rotation thread 2024/2025 

Post#286 » by Colbinii » Sat Oct 19, 2024 1:41 am

Norseman79 wrote:
Klomp wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:You mean as a starting 4 or a backup one?

Either



You are kidding right? As a backup 4 I could see your point, but as a starting 4?


Nope, you are flat wrong here.
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Re: Rotation thread 2024/2025 

Post#287 » by Norseman79 » Sat Oct 19, 2024 1:53 am

Colbinii wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:
Klomp wrote:Either



You are kidding right? As a backup 4 I could see your point, but as a starting 4?


Nope, you are flat wrong here.


Who is wrong? You actually think Naz Reid amongst all starting power forwards, at his size, in the league is one of the most skilled? Keep in mind that's pretty much saying top 5 or 10.
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Re: Rotation thread 2024/2025 

Post#288 » by Klomp » Sat Oct 19, 2024 2:22 am

Norseman79 wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:

You are kidding right? As a backup 4 I could see your point, but as a starting 4?


Nope, you are flat wrong here.


Who is wrong? You actually think Naz Reid amongst all starting power forwards, at his size, in the league is one of the most skilled? Keep in mind that's pretty much saying top 5 or 10.

Keep in mind, skilled and talented are two different conversations.

For one example, Naz is more skilled than Jaylen Brown in my opinion, and Jaylen is two inches shorter.
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Re: Rotation thread 2024/2025 

Post#289 » by Norseman79 » Sat Oct 19, 2024 2:41 am

Klomp wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Nope, you are flat wrong here.


Who is wrong? You actually think Naz Reid amongst all starting power forwards, at his size, in the league is one of the most skilled? Keep in mind that's pretty much saying top 5 or 10.

Keep in mind, skilled and talented are two different conversations.

For one example, Naz is more skilled than Jaylen Brown in my opinion, and Jaylen is two inches shorter.


More skilled in what exactly? No back tracking now. Because I am pretty sure there are plenty of advanced metrics that can be accessed to check your claim. Maybe you are right, but now where is your proof...I will give you some names...the same height or taller than Naz who measured just under 6'9 at the combine..Lauri Markannen, Kevin Durant, Jayson Tatum, Julius Randle, Karl Towns, Anthony David, Brandon Ingram, Giannis, Paolo banchero, Pascal Siakim, shall I continue?
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Re: Rotation thread 2024/2025 

Post#290 » by FrenchMinnyFan » Sat Oct 19, 2024 3:59 am

Who will go cut before season start? Can't wait game 1. Go Wolves!
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Re: Rotation thread 2024/2025 

Post#291 » by Colbinii » Sat Oct 19, 2024 4:51 am

Norseman79 wrote:
Klomp wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:
Who is wrong? You actually think Naz Reid amongst all starting power forwards, at his size, in the league is one of the most skilled? Keep in mind that's pretty much saying top 5 or 10.

Keep in mind, skilled and talented are two different conversations.

For one example, Naz is more skilled than Jaylen Brown in my opinion, and Jaylen is two inches shorter.


More skilled in what exactly? No back tracking now. Because I am pretty sure there are plenty of advanced metrics that can be accessed to check your claim. Maybe you are right, but now where is your proof...I will give you some names...the same height or taller than Naz who measured just under 6'9 at the combine..Lauri Markannen, Kevin Durant, Jayson Tatum, Julius Randle, Karl Towns, Anthony David, Brandon Ingram, Giannis, Paolo banchero, Pascal Siakim, shall I continue?


AD plays Center. Ingram is a 3 with Zion the 4. Towns is a 5.
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Re: Rotation thread 2024/2025 

Post#292 » by shangrila » Sat Oct 19, 2024 5:44 am

Colbinii wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:
Klomp wrote:Keep in mind, skilled and talented are two different conversations.

For one example, Naz is more skilled than Jaylen Brown in my opinion, and Jaylen is two inches shorter.


More skilled in what exactly? No back tracking now. Because I am pretty sure there are plenty of advanced metrics that can be accessed to check your claim. Maybe you are right, but now where is your proof...I will give you some names...the same height or taller than Naz who measured just under 6'9 at the combine..Lauri Markannen, Kevin Durant, Jayson Tatum, Julius Randle, Karl Towns, Anthony David, Brandon Ingram, Giannis, Paolo banchero, Pascal Siakim, shall I continue?


AD plays Center. Ingram is a 3 with Zion the 4. Towns is a 5.

I don't know why Towns is here at all, even if you thought he was a 4.

He's arguably more talented than Reid, sure, but you only have to watch both players drive the ball to see which one is more skilled.
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Re: Rotation thread 2024/2025 

Post#293 » by Colbinii » Sat Oct 19, 2024 6:38 am

shangrila wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:
More skilled in what exactly? No back tracking now. Because I am pretty sure there are plenty of advanced metrics that can be accessed to check your claim. Maybe you are right, but now where is your proof...I will give you some names...the same height or taller than Naz who measured just under 6'9 at the combine..Lauri Markannen, Kevin Durant, Jayson Tatum, Julius Randle, Karl Towns, Anthony David, Brandon Ingram, Giannis, Paolo banchero, Pascal Siakim, shall I continue?


AD plays Center. Ingram is a 3 with Zion the 4. Towns is a 5.

I don't know why Towns is here at all, even if you thought he was a 4.

He's arguably more talented than Reid, sure, but you only have to watch both players drive the ball to see which one is more skilled.


Towns, no doubt, especially at his size.
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Re: Rotation thread 2024/2025 

Post#294 » by shangrila » Sat Oct 19, 2024 7:41 am

Colbinii wrote:
shangrila wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
AD plays Center. Ingram is a 3 with Zion the 4. Towns is a 5.

I don't know why Towns is here at all, even if you thought he was a 4.

He's arguably more talented than Reid, sure, but you only have to watch both players drive the ball to see which one is more skilled.


Towns, no doubt, especially at his size.

I can see an argument about overall skill level I guess.

But if you're responding to the specific scenario I gave then you're just wrong. Reid has the superior handle, that isn't up for debate.
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Re: Rotation thread 2024/2025 

Post#295 » by Norseman79 » Sat Oct 19, 2024 1:18 pm

Colbinii wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:
Klomp wrote:Keep in mind, skilled and talented are two different conversations.

For one example, Naz is more skilled than Jaylen Brown in my opinion, and Jaylen is two inches shorter.


More skilled in what exactly? No back tracking now. Because I am pretty sure there are plenty of advanced metrics that can be accessed to check your claim. Maybe you are right, but now where is your proof...I will give you some names...the same height or taller than Naz who measured just under 6'9 at the combine..Lauri Markannen, Kevin Durant, Jayson Tatum, Julius Randle, Karl Towns, Anthony David, Brandon Ingram, Giannis, Paolo banchero, Pascal Siakim, shall I continue?


AD plays Center. Ingram is a 3 with Zion the 4. Towns is a 5.


Ingram plays 4 at times as does Towns....try again
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Re: Rotation thread 2024/2025 

Post#296 » by Norseman79 » Sat Oct 19, 2024 1:20 pm

Perhaps people should clarify what they mean by skill. Because when I think of skill I think of more than just ball handling, that includes defense, that includes rebounding, that includes passing, and shooting. You could even argue it means moving without the ball as all of which are skills. So if your point is that he can handle the ball better than most men his size, sure I'll give you that. But I can point to anyone I named and many others that have other skills better than his.
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Re: Rotation thread 2024/2025 

Post#297 » by Colbinii » Sat Oct 19, 2024 3:30 pm

Norseman79 wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:
More skilled in what exactly? No back tracking now. Because I am pretty sure there are plenty of advanced metrics that can be accessed to check your claim. Maybe you are right, but now where is your proof...I will give you some names...the same height or taller than Naz who measured just under 6'9 at the combine..Lauri Markannen, Kevin Durant, Jayson Tatum, Julius Randle, Karl Towns, Anthony David, Brandon Ingram, Giannis, Paolo banchero, Pascal Siakim, shall I continue?


AD plays Center. Ingram is a 3 with Zion the 4. Towns is a 5.


Ingram plays 4 at times as does Towns....try again


I thought we were talking about the positions these players are best or most utilized at, not what they occasionally play.
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Re: Rotation thread 2024/2025 

Post#298 » by winforlose » Sat Oct 19, 2024 3:59 pm

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Re: Rotation thread 2024/2025 

Post#299 » by Norseman79 » Sat Oct 19, 2024 6:15 pm

Colbinii wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
AD plays Center. Ingram is a 3 with Zion the 4. Towns is a 5.


Ingram plays 4 at times as does Towns....try again


I thought we were talking about the positions these players are best or most utilized at, not what they occasionally play.


The original post this was in reference to stated that other teams, don't have the option to have a 4 the size of Naz, with his skills. Starting or bench.

I just gave a list of players who played minutes at the 4 last year that I would argue are more all around skilled than Naz Reid. That are his size or bigger. Again, quit moving the goal posts. Reid is a solid player, He has some pretty good potential. But putting crazy labels on him like the most skilled person his size in the league is pretty ridiculous. If that were the case, he would easily be starting. Now let's put this discussion away. Thank you
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Re: Rotation thread 2024/2025 

Post#300 » by winforlose » Sun Oct 20, 2024 2:44 am

So in a fictional world where we cut both Dozier and KBD, does Frank Kaminsky have anything left in the tank?

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