2023 Free Agency

[shrink]

I want to remind people about the $4,374,000 Vanderbilt trade exception that we have until the 6th and the $3,688,117 Russell trade exception that we have until February. Those could potentially be in play as well.

Can you explain how those work in relation to cap space?

For cap space, they count as cap holds for that amount, so teams under the cap often renounce their TPE’s to max their cap space.

For us, while a lot of people call it cap space, we are talking about our space under the lux. Our payroll is already over the cap, and doesn”t look like we’ll have cap space for a long time. What a TPE does for us is that it gives us a mechanism to legally trade for a player worth no more than the amount of the TPE, without sending out matching salary. I’ll also mention TPE’s can’t be combined.

[Norseman79]

I want to remind people about the $4,374,000 Vanderbilt trade exception that we have until the 6th and the $3,688,117 Russell trade exception that we have until February. Those could potentially be in play as well.

Can you explain how those work in relation to cap space?

For cap space, they count as cap holds for that amount, so teams under the cap often renounce their TPE’s to max their cap space.

For us, while a lot of people call it cap space, we are talking about our space under the lux. Our payroll is already over the cap, and doesn”t look like we’ll have cap space for a long time. What a TPE does for us is that it gives us a mechanism to legally trade for a player worth no more than the amount of the TPE, without sending out matching salary. I’ll also mention TPE’s can’t be combined.

So basically we could trade for a $4.3 million contract and a $3.6 million dollar contract correct? But they cannot be combined or added to a player correct?

[TimberKat]

I want to remind people about the $4,374,000 Vanderbilt trade exception that we have until the 6th and the $3,688,117 Russell trade exception that we have until February. Those could potentially be in play as well.

Can you explain how those work in relation to cap space?

For cap space, they count as cap holds for that amount, so teams under the cap often renounce their TPE’s to max their cap space.

For us, while a lot of people call it cap space, we are talking about our space under the lux. Our payroll is already over the cap, and doesn”t look like we’ll have cap space for a long time. What a TPE does for us is that it gives us a mechanism to legally trade for a player worth no more than the amount of the TPE, without sending out matching salary. I’ll also mention TPE’s can’t be combined.

Does that mean we could use the full MLE to sign 1 player, than can't use trade exception as salary slot to sign another player but could use it to trade for a player (ex for a second rounder, without sending out salary). However, in this scenario, we will be over the tax line?

[shrink]

Can you explain how those work in relation to cap space?

For cap space, they count as cap holds for that amount, so teams under the cap often renounce their TPE’s to max their cap space.

For us, while a lot of people call it cap space, we are talking about our space under the lux. Our payroll is already over the cap, and doesn”t look like we’ll have cap space for a long time. What a TPE does for us is that it gives us a mechanism to legally trade for a player worth no more than the amount of the TPE, without sending out matching salary. I’ll also mention TPE’s can’t be combined.

So basically we could trade for a $4.3 million contract and a $3.6 million dollar contract correct? But they cannot be combined or added to a player correct?

Correct. The idea here is that a team is completing a previous trade, and using that difference a little later.

[shrink]

Can you explain how those work in relation to cap space?

For cap space, they count as cap holds for that amount, so teams under the cap often renounce their TPE’s to max their cap space.

For us, while a lot of people call it cap space, we are talking about our space under the lux. Our payroll is already over the cap, and doesn”t look like we’ll have cap space for a long time. What a TPE does for us is that it gives us a mechanism to legally trade for a player worth no more than the amount of the TPE, without sending out matching salary. I’ll also mention TPE’s can’t be combined.

Does that mean we could use the full MLE to sign 1 player, than can't use trade exception as salary slot to sign another player but could use it to trade for a player (ex for a second rounder, without sending out salary). However, in this scenario, we will be over the tax line?

No, unfortunately using the MLE (or BAE, or receiving a player in a sign and trade) triggers the hard cap, which means that they can’t make any transaction that pushes their payroll over the apron.

But I like where your head is at. If MIN used other exceptions to add salary (Bird rights on NAW, Prince, and the TPE’s), MIN could push into the lux tax.

[Norseman79]

For cap space, they count as cap holds for that amount, so teams under the cap often renounce their TPE’s to max their cap space.

For us, while a lot of people call it cap space, we are talking about our space under the lux. Our payroll is already over the cap, and doesn”t look like we’ll have cap space for a long time. What a TPE does for us is that it gives us a mechanism to legally trade for a player worth no more than the amount of the TPE, without sending out matching salary. I’ll also mention TPE’s can’t be combined.

Does that mean we could use the full MLE to sign 1 player, than can't use trade exception as salary slot to sign another player but could use it to trade for a player (ex for a second rounder, without sending out salary). However, in this scenario, we will be over the tax line?

No, unfortunately using the MLE (or BAE, or receiving a player in a sign and trade) triggers the hard cap, which means that they can’t make any trade that pushes their payroll over the apron.

Does it work the other direction though? Could we use the MLE and then still use the trade exceptions?

[shrink]

Does that mean we could use the full MLE to sign 1 player, than can't use trade exception as salary slot to sign another player but could use it to trade for a player (ex for a second rounder, without sending out salary). However, in this scenario, we will be over the tax line?

No, unfortunately using the MLE (or BAE, or receiving a player in a sign and trade) triggers the hard cap, which means that they can’t make any trade that pushes their payroll over the apron.

Does it work the other direction though? Could we use the MLE and then still use the trade exceptions?

I like where your head is at, but still no. If you use the MLE first, you hard cap your team. If you use the TPE’s 1st, then you can only use the MLE if you’re still under the lux after the deal.

If you’re trying to maximize salary MIN could use other exceptions (Bird rights on NAW, Prince, and the TPE’s), and push into the lux tax. And you’ll note that when I listed the things that trigger the hard cap, I didn’t list the tax-payer MLE, which is another $5 mil.

[thinktank]

You know what would make this all a lot easier to understand?

If the NBA put out a flow chart / decision tree of options for teams near or over each apron, etc.

The rules have become so complicated that most fans don’t understand them, and that negates some of the off-season fun.

[KGdaBom]

You know what would make this all a lot easier to understand?

If the NBA put out a flow chart / decision tree of options for teams near over over each apron, etc.

The rules have become so complicated that most fans don’t understand them, and that negates some of the off-season fun.

100% agreement. I don't even try.

[shrink]

The rules have become so complicated that most fans don’t understand them, and that negates some of the off-season fun.

I was just marveling today how much we see ex-GM Bobby Marks continually on SportsCenter.

In the last few years, there has been a dramatic change in fan interest in the GM side of the NBA. I credit a lot of that to the invention of the ESPN Trade Machine, and Woj’s willingness to break news, and explain a little why the rules led to this action. But fans now are highly interested.

What feels strange for some of us long-timers is how different that is from when we started paying attention. Fans didn’t know the rules, and neither didn most sportswriters (who often covered multiple sports). They would regularly write stories which had things that were literally impossible under the CBA. For a number of years I used to email writers, including most of the big names, when they’d post errors and let them know that maybe there was something else they needed to look for to make things legal. Some were grateful, some amended their stories, some I never heard from, and some write back an angry, “well, that’s what I heard!”

Today we have wonderful podcasters and writers that understand the CBA, like Nate Duncan and Danny Lerioux, Brian Windhorst, Keith Smith, and our own Dane Moore. It has become necessary to learn the rules with the immediate public feedback in Twitter, and even Lock’d On’s Ben Beekkon is finally trying to understand them.

For me, this is a utopia! With the exception of maybe the Avengers entering mainstream consciousness, I’m thrilled that people are excited about one of my nerdy passions. Seeing people embrace and try to understand the complicated CBA is a time I never expected to see in my lifetime, andgives me great joy. Bravo to all of you for asking questions and wanting to learn, and RealGM is a great place to do that!

[thinktank]

The rules have become so complicated that most fans don’t understand them, and that negates some of the off-season fun.

I was just marveling today how much we see ex-GM Bobby Marks continually on SportsCenter.

In the last few years, there has been a dramatic change in fan interest in the GM side of the NBA. I credit a lot of that to the invention of the ESPN Trade Machine, and Woj’s willingness to break news, and explain a little why the rules led to this action. But fans now are highly interested.

What feels strange for some of us long-timers is how different that is from when we started paying attention. Fans didn’t know the rules, and neither didn most sportswriters (who often covered multiple sports). They would regularly write stories which had things that were literally impossible under the CBA. For a number of years I used to email writers, including most of the big names, when they’d post errors and let them know that maybe there was something else they needed to look for to make things legal. Some were grateful, some amended their stories, some I never heard from, and some write back an angry, “well, that’s what I heard!”

Today we have wonderful podcasters and writers that understand the CBA, like Nate Duncan and Danny Lerioux, Brian Windhorst, Keith Smith, and our own Dane Moore. It has become necessary to learn the rules with the immediate public feedback in Twitter, and even Lock’d On’s Ben Beekkon is finally trying to understand them.

For me, this is a utopia! With the exception of maybe the Avengers entering mainstream consciousness, I’m thrilled that people are excited about one of my nerdy passions. Seeing people embrace and try to understand the complicated CBA is a time I never expected to see in my lifetime, andgives me great joy. Bravo to all of you for asking questions and wanting to learn, and RealGM is a great place to do that!

That’s all fine and good. I’m just saying we need a “job aid” of sorts, put out by either the NBA or somebody else who cares enough to do it. I’m a consultant and we create easier-to-understand documents of all kinds to enable groups of people to more efficiently discuss complex issues, like the new CBA, for example.

When a document has a level of complexity such as the new CBA, the long-form written contract should be able to be understood more efficiently in another higher-level form.

I really enjoy producing documents like that for my organization, which is a fantastic organization to work for, has an awesome mission, etc. But of course, I can’t share any of that and I don’t have enough interest in the CBA to take it upon myself to create such a document / map / etc.

As far as the CBA goes, so just get a helpless feeling! Sort of wait and see and that’s the best I can do.

[shrink]

Best we have for such a complicated set of rules is Larry Coon’s guide, for anyone who doesn’t know about it.

It’s shorter than the 676-page new CBA, but still, it’s not something you can read in one sitting. Worth a bookmark.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm

[Macwolf527]

The rules have become so complicated that most fans don’t understand them, and that negates some of the off-season fun.

I was just marveling today how much we see ex-GM Bobby Marks continually on SportsCenter.

In the last few years, there has been a dramatic change in fan interest in the GM side of the NBA. I credit a lot of that to the invention of the ESPN Trade Machine, and Woj’s willingness to break news, and explain a little why the rules led to this action. But fans now are highly interested.

What feels strange for some of us long-timers is how different that is from when we started paying attention. Fans didn’t know the rules, and neither didn most sportswriters (who often covered multiple sports). They would regularly write stories which had things that were literally impossible under the CBA. For a number of years I used to email writers, including most of the big names, when they’d post errors and let them know that maybe there was something else they needed to look for to make things legal. Some were grateful, some amended their stories, some I never heard from, and some write back an angry, “well, that’s what I heard!”

Today we have wonderful podcasters and writers that understand the CBA, like Nate Duncan and Danny Lerioux, Brian Windhorst, Keith Smith, and our own Dane Moore. It has become necessary to learn the rules with the immediate public feedback in Twitter, and even Lock’d On’s Ben Beekkon is finally trying to understand them.

For me, this is a utopia! With the exception of maybe the Avengers entering mainstream consciousness, I’m thrilled that people are excited about one of my nerdy passions. Seeing people embrace and try to understand the complicated CBA is a time I never expected to see in my lifetime, andgives me great joy. Bravo to all of you for asking questions and wanting to learn, and RealGM is a great place to do that!

@shrink, It really does make things more interesting, but the complexity of it as a whole, keeps me on the surface to most of it. I just don't have the time to muddle through all the details that exist in the CBA and re-translate them into a meaningful point only for someone to chomp my head off or demean me in my errors. But to your point, it does make things easier to follow in mainstream media knowing they have given serious thoughts to the details on those rumors circulating around. At least let the feasibility of those topics be possible in some way.

[BlacJacMac]

Best we have for such a complicated set of rules is Larry Coon’s guide, for anyone who doesn’t know about it.

It’s shorter than the 676-page new CBA, but still, it’s not something you can read in one sitting. Worth a bookmark.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm

I don't think I've ever read it top to bottom, but I reference it all the time when I have questions.

Its as good of a resource as there is, and I believe a number of front offices reference it frequently.

[Klomp]

Best we have for such a complicated set of rules is Larry Coon’s guide, for anyone who doesn’t know about it.

It’s shorter than the 676-page new CBA, but still, it’s not something you can read in one sitting. Worth a bookmark.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm

I don't think I've ever read it top to bottom, but I reference it all the time when I have questions.

Its as good of a resource as there is, and I believe a number of front offices reference it frequently.

This is how I gained my confidence in knowing the CBA. Things have changed and I don’t always have everything down to a science, but I’ve been referencing Coon’s FAQ since I started here at RealGM.


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[Klomp]

Gut feeling two hours ahead: I’m still thinking that Connelly is going to double down on size with flexibility. This is what intrigues me personally about LeVert, for example.

Keep in mind: Hardly anyone had connected Kyle Anderson to Minnesota ahead of his MLE signing.

I personally want to keep an eye on Darius Bazley.

[KGdaBom]

Gut feeling two hours ahead: I’m still thinking that Connelly is going to double down on size with flexibility. This is what intrigues me personally about LeVert, for example.

Keep in mind: Hardly anyone had connected Kyle Anderson to Minnesota ahead of his MLE signing.

I personally want to keep an eye on Darius Bazley.

LeVert is talented, but I don't trust him to be available when we need him.

[Klomp]

This is a great point actually. Connelly was big on “market inefficiencies” after the draft as a way to find value. I think that’s where the size mismatch might be coming into play as well as another inefficiency.

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[Klomp]

Gut feeling two hours ahead: I’m still thinking that Connelly is going to double down on size with flexibility. This is what intrigues me personally about LeVert, for example.

Keep in mind: Hardly anyone had connected Kyle Anderson to Minnesota ahead of his MLE signing.

I personally want to keep an eye on Darius Bazley.

LeVert is talented, but I don't trust him to be available when we need him.

That’s the only reason he’s even a possibility for us at MLE money though.

[Klomp]

Gut feeling two hours ahead: I’m still thinking that Connelly is going to double down on size with flexibility. This is what intrigues me personally about LeVert, for example.

Keep in mind: Hardly anyone had connected Kyle Anderson to Minnesota ahead of his MLE signing.

I personally want to keep an eye on Darius Bazley.

The first name on the list is another example of the type of guys Connelly could target as someone cheap who has size/length with positional flexibility. But I’m not familiar with his game.

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