Trade Talk (Part Thirteen): 2023 Offseason Edition

[shrink]

I guess this discussion is useless if you don't see what's difference between PHO and MIN situations. You don't pay attention to CBA and context as much as I do, while I'm trying to do my research.

Dude, don’t shut down anyone’s opinion with “I know more about the CBA than you do.”

Over its history, the CBA has gone through many iterations. We do not know how teams are going to react until we see it in practice. This is the third major time when penalties were applied to stop excessive spending. Both times before, people who “paid attention to the CBA” .. its actual CREATORS … believed it would reduce excessive spending. Both times they were wrong.

First time, the NBA Players Union has always been united in avoiding a hard cap, right from the start. But the authors knew that excessive spending would give big markets a huge advantage. They settled on a soft cap, but there would be penalties for going over the salary cap. For example, a team couldn’t just sign a free agent for whatever contract they wanted if it was over the cap, so surely the under-the-cap teams would get the best players because they could bid the most! And if teams tried trading, they’d have to salary match trades, to make it hard to acquire stars and raise payroll quickly! It should be obvious now that most teams routinely exist over the salary cap and only dive down under the cap occasionally - those penalties weren’t enough.

Another time, they introduced the luxury tax system (and additionally, the repeater tax). Just like today, the majority of team had a payroll that had blown past the cap, so they created the new luxury threshold. With these new lux taxes, a team would be paying 2-4 times as much for that additional guy over the lux, and surely that would keep high-spending teams in line! And as we can tell over the last few years, teams that want to win routinely go over the lux and stay there. Their ability to generate revenue with team success and new stadiums, and rising franchise value made it profitable to overpay for an extra player or two, regardless of the lux.

So now, I hear people beat their chest saying, “I study the CBA, and I know this will keep teams from over-spending.” Yes, that is the GOAL of the new CBA, but nobody has come up with a CBA yet that has succeeded at that goal. These rules don’t forbid - they deter, and every good GM is going to find a balance for their individual franchise balancing rewards and penalties. Then we’ll see new rules - it’s a constant evolution. Let’s wait and see what happens with the current super-lux.

[TimberKat]

I’m critiquing your (and anyone else’s) point that you won’t personally pay these bills. Thank you, Captain Obvious. That’s not logical. It’s moot. I’ll always find that “point” humorous.

The point he was trying to make is that none of us have any clue what ownership has planned for future spending on the roster. It's their money to spend, not the fans of the team. Maybe they actually intend to spend over the cap for the best chance to win. Please stop being obtuse.

It not ONLY about paying tax, here are penalties for 2nd apron:

- teams cannot acquire a player in a sign-and-trade if that player keeps them above the apron

- teams cannot sign a player waived during the regular season whose salary was over the $12.2 million midlevel exception

- salary matching in trades must be within 110 percent, rather than 125 percent for teams not above the apron

- no access to the $5 million taxpayer midlevel exception

- teams cannot use a trade exception generated by aggregating the salaries of multiple players

- teams cannot include cash in a trade

- teams cannot use a trade exception generated in a prior year

- first-round picks seven years out are frozen (unable to be traded)

- a team's first-round pick is moved to the end of the first round if they remain in the second apron for three out of five seasons

This is enough even for teams from big markets to make everything possible to stay under 2nd apron. Let alone MIN. In 2024-25 Gobert-Towns-Reid will earn 110 mil, plus Edwards-McDaniels 55-60 mil. Based on this you can calculate how much we can afford to spend on other 10 players, including starting PG without going over 2nd apron.

We shown the calc on the free agent thread. Basically, we are set with the top 8 players and ~8.5 mil to sign a PG and still below 2nd apron. Fill 10-14 with 2nd rounder and vet minimum. We have to make a decision on Moore before 2023 season starts (not sure if it's the same for Minott). With the top 9 players set, couldn't we work around the rules above to fill 10 to 14? The interesting one would be if we sucked but still over 2nd apron and Jazz still owns our pick, so instead of them getting a lottery pick, they will get something in the 20s? That could come in handy for 2027

Ideally, one of Connelly's 4 picks: Moore, Minott, Miller, and Clark, needs to turn into a rotation player.

[minimus]

I guess this discussion is useless if you don't see what's difference between PHO and MIN situations. You don't pay attention to CBA and context as much as I do, while I'm trying to do my research.

Dude, don’t shut down anyone’s opinion with “I know more about the CBA than you do.”

Shrink, what's the point of discussion when we have a mandatory document that is more important than our opinions and we disregard it? The whole discussion is running circles here because of it. I wrote I PAY ATTENTION to CBA and whole context. I don't care much about opinions nowadays, including my personal opinion about possible MIN salary problems, more important is HOW people develop their opinions, that's why I wrote that I'm trying to do my research. I don't know why you were triggered by my post, maybe I should have put in other words, but you just used history of CBA to overload me with info? To public shame me? Give me, your based, deep opinion, give me CBA sheets, give me your calculations, friend. I know you have one, let's go further in conversation! Don't shut me up with sophisticated wording, I am sick and tired of this indirect communication. Keep me real by being closer to subject.

[Battletrigger]

You're a genius using hindsight. Please pat yourself on the back. Oh...the Wolves had the #2 team defense in the league last year WITH Gobert on the floor but feel free to continue to ignore facts and stats when they contradict your narrative.

Have you checked Gobert defensive rating last year compared to the Utah one?

It's cool to come here using some cocky words, changing the subject from Gobert to Wolves to make your point, but that's not true.

Gobert's stats were down and he didn't made NBA all star. He still was fairly good and still made impact on D more than some here gave him credit for. I don't know how you prove that other than by when he plays or don't play. We also ask him to guard guys out further to the perimeter too.

I agree with you, but What I said was he was declining and his defense wasn't as good as in Utah. That's not incompatible with what you say

[shrink]

I guess this discussion is useless if you don't see what's difference between PHO and MIN situations. You don't pay attention to CBA and context as much as I do, while I'm trying to do my research.

Dude, don’t shut down anyone’s opinion with “I know more about the CBA than you do.”

Shrink, what's the point of discussion when we have a mandatory document that is more important than our opinions and we disregard it? The whole discussion is running circles here because of it. I wrote I PAY ATTENTION to CBA and whole context. I don't care much about opinions nowadays, including my personal opinion about possible MIN salary problems, more important is HOW people develop their opinions, that's why I wrote that I'm trying to do my research. I don't know why you were triggered by my post, maybe I should have put in other words, but you just used history of CBA to overload me with info? To public shame me? Give me, your based, deep opinion, give me CBA sheets, give me your calculations, friend. I know you have one, let's go further in conversation! Don't shut me up with sophisticated wording, I am sick and tired of this indirect communication. Keep me real by being closer to subject.

Two things.

1. The document is real, how teams are going to react to it is your opinion.

2. Maybe your words didn’t intend to do this, but they seem to be trying to shut up a poster’s opinion because you pay more attention to the CBA than he does. I probably pay more attention to it than probably anyone here, certainly for a longer time, but that doesn’t give me the right to dismiss other people’s opinions. On the positive side, I liked that you tried to educate people on the specific penalties in the new CBA for going over the second apron, to give them more real context when they form their opinions. I did the history lesson for the same reason.

You asked for my opinion? I think that these CBA penalties seem severe, but twice before I’ve seen penalties that everyone (including myself) thought were severe, and both times they didn’t stop excessive spending. The rising salary cap, the new TV deal and reduced penalties for crossing the first lux will continue to inflate overall NBA payroll and player salaries, particularly for star players. I don’t know yet if the second apron penalties will truly act as a voluntary hard cap. Minnesota isn’t a highly lucrative market, but if the team looks like a contender at the trade deadline, I think it would be a tough decision for ownership to do a Towns trade to reduce payroll, particularly as they angle for public support for a new stadium over the next couple of years.

[Klomp]

Watch on YouTube

[TimberKat]

Dude, don’t shut down anyone’s opinion with “I know more about the CBA than you do.”

Shrink, what's the point of discussion when we have a mandatory document that is more important than our opinions and we disregard it? The whole discussion is running circles here because of it. I wrote I PAY ATTENTION to CBA and whole context. I don't care much about opinions nowadays, including my personal opinion about possible MIN salary problems, more important is HOW people develop their opinions, that's why I wrote that I'm trying to do my research. I don't know why you were triggered by my post, maybe I should have put in other words, but you just used history of CBA to overload me with info? To public shame me? Give me, your based, deep opinion, give me CBA sheets, give me your calculations, friend. I know you have one, let's go further in conversation! Don't shut me up with sophisticated wording, I am sick and tired of this indirect communication. Keep me real by being closer to subject.

Two things.

1. The document is real, how teams are going to react to it is your opinion.

2. Maybe your words didn’t intend to do this, but they seem to be trying to shut up a poster’s opinion because you pay more attention to the CBA than he does. I probably pay more attention to it than probably anyone here, certainly for a longer time, but that doesn’t give me the right to dismiss other people’s opinions. On the positive side, I liked that you tried to educate people on the specific penalties in the new CBA for going over the second apron, to give them more real context when they form their opinions. I did the history lesson for the same reason.

You asked for my opinion? I think that these CBA penalties seem severe, but twice before I’ve seen penalties that everyone (including myself) thought were severe, and both times they didn’t stop excessive spending. The rising salary cap, the new TV deal and reduced penalties for crossing the first lux will continue to inflate overall NBA payroll and player salaries, particularly for star players. I don’t know yet if the second apron penalties will truly act as a voluntary hard cap. Minnesota isn’t a highly lucrative market, but if the team looks like a contender at the trade deadline, I think it would be a tough decision for ownership to do a Towns trade to reduce payroll, particularly as they angle for public support for a new stadium over the next couple of years.

Pile on a little more here. If you read my other posts, you know I did look at the new CBA and I posted the CBS sports CBA highlights before. I don't know every rules and some had corrected me on a couple minor points. However, the general idea is still the same. It's my opinion that, if you have a good team ready for deep playoff runs and are set for the top 9 players, those 2nd apron is manageable if you are willing to paid the tax. If your team is over 2nd apron and fail to make the playoffs, than it's difficult to add a major piece. There is nothing in the CBA that said we must move Towns or Gobert. The solution could be we have a great team or trade Naz or JMcD or Conley. So, you know more about the CBA doesn't mean my opinion is not valid.

[minimus]

1. The document is real, how teams are going to react to it is your opinion.

I am fine with opinions. However, keep in mind that since new CBA 2nd apron will fully work one year from now, we dont see many related moves. It is only preparations phase. Also there are a few tiers of teams. First tier are teams like GSW, PHO, LAC, MIA, MIL. They were assembled before new CBA and they are in win-now mode and have aging stars in mid 30s. It makes sense for them to spend more this year, before new CBA will apply all 2nd apron penalties.

I am fine if our FO say that they have built a contender level roster, then "run it back" makes sense, but the question is future timeline and roster that Edwards will have around in his prime. This concern is legit if you look at MIN salary sheet. So lets put our opinions with some insights, instead of writing same baseless overreactions over and over.

2. You asked for my opinion? I think that these CBA penalties seem severe, but twice before I’ve seen penalties that everyone (including myself) thought were severe, and both times they didn’t stop excessive spending. The rising salary cap, the new TV deal and reduced penalties for crossing the first lux will continue to inflate overall NBA payroll and player salaries, particularly for star players. I don’t know yet if the second apron penalties will truly act as a voluntary hard cap. Minnesota isn’t a highly lucrative market, but if the team looks like a contender at the trade deadline, I think it would be a tough decision for ownership to do a Towns trade to reduce payroll, particularly as they angle for public support for a new stadium over the next couple of years.

As you said, new CBA is not about preventing teams to spend, but to balance teams strength across whole NBA. It means that NBA would love to have same dog fight between teams that we saw last season in West where teams from 4 to 12 where within 1-2 wins in standings. NBA tries to encourage bottom teams to spend AND make management for rich teams harder. It is not only about paying luxury tax, it will be difficult to manage a team over 2nd apron. For instance, in such case they wont be able to sign waived player who has a contract over MLE, it means that his year guys like Beverley, Wall, Westbrook, Kevin Love would not have joined CHI, LAC, MIA. Or Lakers bought 2nd round picks using cash, which wont be legal under new CBA if they are above 2nd apron. Etc.

GSW have been doing the same trick for years: assemble roster with multiple big contracts => deep playoff run with championship hopes => more income => pay luxury tax

IMO MIN new owners were aiming to use same shortcut to acquire Gobert (get more wings by having multiple stars, get more income, pay luxury tax) but I do believe that it is indeed a shortcut. Instead of developing a roster around Edwards, we wanted immediate wins by trading for Gobert and paying later. Will new TV deal help MIN here in 2025-26? I am sure that new owners had this in mind too. But as you can see it already affects some decisions of players and teams in negotiating new contracts. I would not be surprised in McDaniels agent right now as argument. The problem if I remember correctly is that 2024-25 season before new TV deal and under new CBA. They wont have any room, moreover if in July 2024 Edwards gets 30% of cap instead of 25%, it will get even worse. But even with new TV deal (approx +50 mi salary cap raise) it will be difficult to manage, remember that we dont have a long-term solution at PG position. To get such player we either need trade assets, cap room or get extremely fortunate in draft/developing young players. Again to me whole Gobert saga looks like a shortcut, because teams like GSW have one requirement that we dont have: chemistry (last season a conflict Poole-Green and following failure confirms it). Their owner group pay because there is a foundation of team chemistry. It like paying bills for a fully assembled, tested car. In case of MIN we have a broken car which is not fully repaired, tested yet. In best case scenario this MIN roster works next year but whole roster construction is not sustainable after next season. It is similar to difference between dealer car price and yearly cost of maintenance. In my experience owners often are okay to pay high price, but they are very surprised everytime when they have to pay high maintenance cost.

First example. DEN knew that Bruce Brown will leave. Even before playoff run ended, they made trade with OKC, got another 2023 SRP and future 2024 FRP. They knew they cant afford Brown, so they proactively tried to find replacements for his role him with three new drafted players and last year Braun. It looks like a proactive management to me.

Second example, ATL for years tried to trade John Collins, after new CBA was announced they dumped him for SRP, because they did not have room to operate as they had almost 180 mil salaries and first round exit in playoffs. It looks like a reactive management to me.

Last example, Haliburton was not an ideal fit in SAC with Fox. Sabonis was not an ideal fit next to Turner. Haliburton-Sabonis trade raised some question, but now IND have their staring PG, franchise cornerstone, elite level ballhandler. SAC have the best offense in NBA. Good trade for both sides.

I hope new owners and FO be will smart enough at managing this team without any shortcuts, but right now Gobert trade looks like a bad management example. Will see,

[minimus]

Watch on YouTube

Give me Cason Wallace!

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[Slim Tubby]

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Give me Cason Wallace!

Watch on YouTube

I really like Wallace as a secondary piece in a trade with OKC for KAT. He could be our long-term solution at PG if he develops in time. As a fan of KAT, I could easily get behind a trade that also includes Jalen Williams plus a couple FRP's. Such a trade would certainly improve OKC and strengthen them in the WC which should be a consideration.

(Getting Williams wouldn't solve our issue at PF moving forward but I'm a huge fan of his game and outside shooting.)

[minimus]

I really like Wallace as a secondary piece in a trade with OKC for KAT. He could be our long-term solution at PG if he develops in time. As a fan of KAT, I could easily get behind a trade that also includes Jalen Williams plus a couple FRP's. Such a trade would certainly improve OKC and strengthen them in the WC which should be a consideration.

(Getting Williams wouldn't solve our issue at PF moving forward but I'm a huge fan of his game and outside shooting.)

I really did not pay attention to Wallace before draft. But he looks like a defensive minded guard who can complete our tranformation into defense first group. Also that DEN-OKC trade makes me think that Sam Presti is already experiencing some overload issues with picks. He sent 2024 first- and second-round pick and a 2023 second-round pickto DEN for a protected 2029 first-round pick, converting 2023/2024 picks to 2029 pick. He has 35 picks in next draft, including 15 in first rounds. Outside of SGA he only has overpaid role players (Dort, Bertans and at some degree Kenrich Williams), players on rookie deals (Chet, Wallace, Williams, Dieng, Poku, Mann) and expiring (Guy. Oladipo). Presti can make a big splash, get Towns and will still have multiple picks.

P.S. As for starting PF position, I have some faith that Anderson will fill that role as temporary solution before both Miller and Minott will develop into NBA rotational players. What I really hope to find is an elite shooter.

[jpatrick]

Jalen Williams is a future superstar. I loved him predraft and per Jon K., Connelly did too. He was they guy Connelly was hoping to fall to us. Unfortunately, I think Williams alone (based on age, contract, and position) has more trade value alone than KAT. Could be wrong about that, but I don’t think so.

I firmly believe that if OKC believe KAT fits next to Chet, they would be the ideal fit. They have the assets, salary cap room, and possible fit (I think a Chet/KAT frontline would be awesome).

At this point, I’d be shocked if we make a move before the season. I hope a healthy KAT and Gobert gel and having Conley all season helps everyone be better and we have a strong start. Even if we have to financially make a move down the road, us doing well this year will help trade values. I do worry about the jump in KAT’s salary making trades harder, but it is what it is. We can’t make a panic trade.

[Slim Tubby]

Jalen Williams is a future superstar. I loved him predraft and per Jon K., Connelly did too. He was they guy Connelly was hoping to fall to us. Unfortunately, I think Williams alone (based on age, contract, and position) has more trade value alone than KAT. Could be wrong about that, but I don’t think so.

I firmly believe that if OKC believe KAT fits next to Chet, they would be the ideal fit. They have the assets, salary cap room, and possible fit (I think a Chet/KAT frontline would be awesome).

I agree on Williams completely and he also matches the great outside shooter that Minimus mentioned we so badly need, especially if we move KAT. As you stated, I also see OKC as the best trade partner.

[frankenwolf]

We can’t make a panic trade.

This is why I am, right now, 100% against any KAT trade. Everything being proposed seems like a panic, pennies on the the $100 trades. What about Ant's timeline?? His timeline is now! It will just run longer than the KAT/Gobert front court. As far as I am concerned, trading KAT anytime during Ant's time here is not a good idea. Trading Gobert, especially next year in the final year of his contract, makes more sense for a long term, championship viable, team.

OTOH, if when the Timberwolves win the championship this year, it may be a wonderful thing to run it back again, nevermind the burdens/hurdles of the 2nd apron!

[minimus]

We can’t make a panic trade.

This is why I am, right now, 100% against any KAT trade. Everything being proposed seems like a panic, pennies on the the $100 trades. What about Ant's timeline?? His timeline is now! It will just run longer than the KAT/Gobert front court. As far as I am concerned, trading KAT anytime during Ant's time here is not a good idea. Trading Gobert, especially next year in the final year of his contract, makes more sense for a long term, championship viable, team.

OTOH, if when the Timberwolves win the championship this year, it may be a wonderful thing to run it back again, nevermind the burdens/hurdles of the 2nd apron!

Ants timeline is now? Edwards is only 21yo, MCD is 22yo, Reid is 23yo, NAW is 24yo, Miller is 19yo, Minott is 20yo. Yes, Wade won championship with Shaq, but Wade was 24yo. Also that was different era in 2005-06. Rather than having one year in win-now mode with unclear prospects, I would re-invest assets to have multiple years of deep playoff runs with Edwards in his prime. Also a lot depends on whole trajectory of next season. Injuries, trades and opponent internal issues might open unique opportunity for us or completely close the window. Last year whole series of injuries was epithome of bad MIN luck. Looking at our status might be indeed very different in a distance of 6 monts from now.

[shrink]

Watch on YouTube

I think it’s interesting that Minnesota was Ramona Shelburne and Zach Lowe’s both chose the Wolves as the team that was one piece away from being a contender, and interesting that Shelburne said that they could get that one star player by trading Towns, who has the value to bring back a star player.

Overall though, this seems like the typical superficial view that the national reporters have about the Timberwolves. ESPN is about ratings, so showing Anthony Edwards clips gets eyeballs - he could certainly be the heir apparent to their “Best New Thing” title that they tried to give to Ja. Note that the feature shows Ant clips, but they don’t use MIN in the title of the video - they use OKC. And while Ant is the most visible star they want to promote, any honest discussion of internal improvement for the team should at least mention Jaden McDaniels. Moreover, she touched on the Wolves needing to move Towns because of the expense, and then suggests Damian Lillard, who makes more than Towns the next three years?

I’m glad you shared this Klomp, because it’s encouraging to see MIN, or at least Edwards, getting some national pub. I agree with the sentiment that MIN has finally accumulated the talent to make a playoff run. But with so many national “experts” (who also barely follow the Wolves) thinking MIN is a play in team, it’s hard for me to suddenly take ESPN’s piece seriously.

[shrink]

We can’t make a panic trade.

This is why I am, right now, 100% against any KAT trade. Everything being proposed seems like a panic, pennies on the the $100 trades. What about Ant's timeline?? His timeline is now! It will just run longer than the KAT/Gobert front court. As far as I am concerned, trading KAT anytime during Ant's time here is not a good idea. Trading Gobert, especially next year in the final year of his contract, makes more sense for a long term, championship viable, team.

OTOH, if when the Timberwolves win the championship this year, it may be a wonderful thing to run it back again, nevermind the burdens/hurdles of the 2nd apron!

Ants timeline is now? Edwards is only 21yo, MCD is 22yo, Reid is 23yo, NAW is 24yo, Miller is 19yo, Minott is 20yo. Yes, Wade won championship with Shaq, but Wade was 24yo. Also that was different era in 2005-06. Rather than having one year in win-now mode with unclear prospects, I would re-invest assets to have multiple years of deep playoff runs with Edwards in his prime. Also a lot depends on whole trajectory of next season. Injuries, trades and opponent internal issues might open unique opportunity for us or completely close the window. Last year whole series of injuries was epithome of bad MIN luck. Looking at our status might be indeed very different in a distance of 6 monts from now.

Good points guys.

One of the best things about Ant is that he could have a number of years where he is a playoff caliber star. This is very unusual, because players generally don’t approach their prime until they are 27-28, so the Wolves could have a very long window.

To me, this also means that our local talking heads make way too much about timelines. Ant can be great with any timeline - and multiple timelines. In fact, Ant (and Jaden) make MIN one of the rare teams in the league that is NOT under pressure to trade for win-now talent. Teams like MIA, PHX, LAC, MIL can all see their stars getting old, and the window rapidly closing. If you believe KAT must be traded (and I do not), those are the ones that are forced to overpay the most, to win an auction against others with timeline issues. Moreover, I would point out that Towns is just 27 .. the age that stars enter their prime.

[KGdaBom]

This is why I am, right now, 100% against any KAT trade. Everything being proposed seems like a panic, pennies on the the $100 trades. What about Ant's timeline?? His timeline is now! It will just run longer than the KAT/Gobert front court. As far as I am concerned, trading KAT anytime during Ant's time here is not a good idea. Trading Gobert, especially next year in the final year of his contract, makes more sense for a long term, championship viable, team.

OTOH, if when the Timberwolves win the championship this year, it may be a wonderful thing to run it back again, nevermind the burdens/hurdles of the 2nd apron!

Ants timeline is now? Edwards is only 21yo, MCD is 22yo, Reid is 23yo, NAW is 24yo, Miller is 19yo, Minott is 20yo. Yes, Wade won championship with Shaq, but Wade was 24yo. Also that was different era in 2005-06. Rather than having one year in win-now mode with unclear prospects, I would re-invest assets to have multiple years of deep playoff runs with Edwards in his prime. Also a lot depends on whole trajectory of next season. Injuries, trades and opponent internal issues might open unique opportunity for us or completely close the window. Last year whole series of injuries was epithome of bad MIN luck. Looking at our status might be indeed very different in a distance of 6 monts from now.

Good points guys.

One of the best things about Ant is that he could have a number of years where he is a playoff caliber star. This is very unusual, because players generally don’t approach their prime until they are 27-28, so the Wolves could have a very long window.

To me, this also means that our local talking heads make way too much about timelines. Ant can be great with any timeline - and multiple timelines. In fact, Ant (and Jaden) make MIN one of the rare teams in the league that is NOT under pressure to trade for win-now talent. Teams like MIA, PHX, LAC, MIL can all see their stars getting old, and the window rapidly closing. If you believe KAT must be traded (and I do not), those are the ones that are forced to overpay the most, to win an auction against others with timeline issues. Moreover, I would point out that Towns is just 27 .. the age that stars enter their prime.

Excellent points Shrink.

[Klomp]

This is why I am, right now, 100% against any KAT trade. Everything being proposed seems like a panic, pennies on the the $100 trades. What about Ant's timeline?? His timeline is now! It will just run longer than the KAT/Gobert front court. As far as I am concerned, trading KAT anytime during Ant's time here is not a good idea. Trading Gobert, especially next year in the final year of his contract, makes more sense for a long term, championship viable, team.

OTOH, if when the Timberwolves win the championship this year, it may be a wonderful thing to run it back again, nevermind the burdens/hurdles of the 2nd apron!

Ants timeline is now? Edwards is only 21yo, MCD is 22yo, Reid is 23yo, NAW is 24yo, Miller is 19yo, Minott is 20yo. Yes, Wade won championship with Shaq, but Wade was 24yo. Also that was different era in 2005-06. Rather than having one year in win-now mode with unclear prospects, I would re-invest assets to have multiple years of deep playoff runs with Edwards in his prime. Also a lot depends on whole trajectory of next season. Injuries, trades and opponent internal issues might open unique opportunity for us or completely close the window. Last year whole series of injuries was epithome of bad MIN luck. Looking at our status might be indeed very different in a distance of 6 monts from now.

Good points guys.

One of the best things about Ant is that he could have a number of years where he is a playoff caliber star. This is very unusual, because players generally don’t approach their prime until they are 27-28, so the Wolves could have a very long window.

To me, this also means that our local talking heads make way too much about timelines. Ant can be great with any timeline - and multiple timelines. In fact, Ant (and Jaden) make MIN one of the rare teams in the league that is NOT under pressure to trade for win-now talent. Teams like MIA, PHX, LAC, MIL can all see their stars getting old, and the window rapidly closing. If you believe KAT must be traded (and I do not), those are the ones that are forced to overpay the most, to win an auction against others with timeline issues. Moreover, I would point out that Towns is just 27 .. the age that stars enter their prime.

Your point about timelines is spot on. And I still believe that making that trade was the best thing they could have done for our young core, even though they overpaid. Playoff experience is everything. No, Edwards and McDaniels are not in their primes. But that's why it's so important to get to the playoffs at a young age, even if they are just first round exits. Those appearances are growing pains, but they are learning experiences. Michael Jordan had three first round exits in his first three seasons. They didn't make the Finals until the 7th season, when Jordan was 26.

I think of adding Gobert to the mix a lot like when Denver signed 32-year old Paul Millsap. Jokic was 22. Murray was 20. Harris was 23. Porter wasn't even on the roster yet. A 3/$90 million contract didn't make a lot of sense with the timeline for a team that already won 40 games the year before. But it was the boost they needed to get the young group to make another step in its development.

[Klomp]

Overall though, this seems like the typical superficial view that the national reporters have about the Timberwolves. ESPN is about ratings, so showing Anthony Edwards clips gets eyeballs - he could certainly be the heir apparent to their “Best New Thing” title that they tried to give to Ja.

Your point about Ja is very interesting, and one I hadn't even thought about. ESPN has quickly moved away from hyping the Grizzlies this offseason, even though they've had a decent summer.