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Around the NBA (Part Two)

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frankenwolf
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Re: Around the NBA (Part Two) 

Post#321 » by frankenwolf » Fri Jul 12, 2024 8:59 pm

Draft Pick Penalty.
(1) As used in this Agreement, the following terms shall have the
following meanings:

(i) “Second Apron Team” means, for a Salary Cap Year, a Team
that, as of the start of the Team’s last Regular Season game
occurring within such Salary Cap Year, has an Apron Team
Salary for such Salary Cap Year that exceeds the Second
Apron Level for such Salary Cap Year.
196 Article VII

(ii) “Draft Pick Penalty” means, for a Team’s first round draft
pick, that such draft pick shall be the final draft pick in the
first round of the applicable NBA Draft (regardless of the
position in the first round of the Draft at which the Team
otherwise would have selected pursuant to NBA rules
governing the order of selection by Teams in the Draft);
provided, however, that, if multiple Teams’ first round draft
picks are each subject to a Draft Pick Penalty in respect of
the same NBA Draft, then the Teams with such first round
draft picks shall select in the inverse order of their winning
percentage for the Regular Season immediately preceding
such NBA Draft (with priority in selection among any such
Teams tied on a winning percentage basis established
pursuant to NBA rules governing the order of selection by
Teams in the Draft). For example, if Team A’s and Team
B’s first round draft picks in the 2032 NBA Draft are each
subject to a Draft Pick Penalty, and Team A finished with a
better winning percentage than Team B for the 2031-32
Regular Season, then Team A would make the final selection
in the first round of the 2032 NBA Draft and Team B would
make the immediately preceding selection.

(2) Beginning with the 2024-25 Salary Cap Year, if a Team is a
Second Apron Team for a Salary Cap Year, then:
(i) the Team shall be prohibited from trading (either
conditionally or unconditionally) its first round draft pick in
the first NBA Draft that occurs following the seventh
Season that follows the Season occurring within such Salary
Cap Year; and
(ii) with respect to the four (4) Salary Cap Years immediately
following such Salary Cap Year:
(A) If the Team is a Second Apron Team for two (2) or
more of such four (4) Salary Cap Years, then such
first round draft pick shall be subject to a Draft Pick
Penalty; and

(B) If the Team is a Second Apron Team for fewer than
two (2) of such four (4) Salary Cap Years, then, as of
the day following the last day of the Regular Season
encompassed by the third of such four (4) Salary Cap
Years in which the Team is not a Second Apron
Team, such Team shall be permitted to trade
(conditionally or unconditionally) such first round
draft pick. For clarity, such first round draft pick
shall not be subject to a Draft Pick Penalty.

Example: If Team A is a Second Apron Team for the 2024-25 Salary Cap
Year, then it would be prohibited from trading its 2032 first round draft pick
(i.e., its first round draft pick in the first NBA Draft that occurs following the
seventh Season that follows the Season occurring within such Salary Cap Year).
If Team A is also a Second Apron Team for the 2025-26 and 2028-29 Salary
Cap Years, then Team A’s 2032 first round draft pick would be subject to a
Draft Pick Penalty.

Example: If Team B is a Second Apron Team for the 2024-25 Salary Cap
Year, then it would be prohibited from trading its 2032 first round draft pick.
If Team B is not a Second Apron Team in the 2025-26, 2026-27, and
2027-28 Salary Cap Years, then Team B would be permitted to trade its 2032
first round draft pick as of the day following the last day of the 2027-28 Regular
Season (and such first round draft pick would not be subject to a Draft Pick
Penalty).


This is why I despise lawyers. What normal person can make sense of this BS?
Spoiler:
Nope, I did not read the whole thing.
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Re: Around the NBA (Part Two) 

Post#322 » by Neeva » Fri Jul 12, 2024 11:04 pm

Everything about Brunson and the knicks is fishy as hell from joining the knicks in free agency years ago, knicks are probably giving Brunson and his father money under the table.
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Re: Around the NBA (Part Two) 

Post#323 » by winforlose » Sat Jul 13, 2024 1:52 am

Found this on hoopshype. This is what I was talking about with Kyle.

“ The Phoenix Suns and Josh Okogie agreed to a two-year, $16 million deal, which is non-guaranteed for the 2025-26 season, league sources told HoopsHype. The Suns gave Okogie an inflated salary in the contract structure to use as a potential trade chip, league sources told HoopsHype.
Source: HoopsHype”
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Re: Around the NBA (Part Two) 

Post#324 » by BlacJacMac » Sat Jul 13, 2024 1:57 am

We were talking about this earlier.

My problem is who is available in trade that makes less than 8M and actually will help the Suns?

And who is going to take on Okogie for 8M and only get the worst of a 3 pick swap in 2030?

My guess is they end up eating his contract and paying the full freight.
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Re: Around the NBA (Part Two) 

Post#325 » by jpatrick » Sat Jul 13, 2024 1:58 am

BlacJacMac wrote:We were talking about this earlier.

My problem is who is available in trade that makes less than 8M and actually will help the Suns?

And who is going to take on Okogie for 8M and only get the worst of a 3 pick swap in 2030?

My guess is they end up eating his contract and paying the full freight.


Was listening to a podcast, said that with the Suns in the second apron, that $8m contract, will cost them just under $60m. Ouch.

Exhibit #1 why we will not fill that 15th roster spot. Also, why we probably won’t resign either Naz or NAW unless we cut salary somewhere.
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Re: Around the NBA (Part Two) 

Post#326 » by younggunsmn » Sat Jul 13, 2024 2:28 am

I saw that with the Suns and Okogie, they are going to pay like 47 mil in luxury tax to overpay him 8 million.
They have no draft assets to attach to him to trade.
And the only decent players in that range are usually on rookie deals.
It's borderline delusional.
The owner should fire their entire front office.
Been nothing but disasters ever since the Durant trade.
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Re: Around the NBA (Part Two) 

Post#327 » by winforlose » Sat Jul 13, 2024 3:06 am

BlacJacMac wrote:We were talking about this earlier.

My problem is who is available in trade that makes less than 8M and actually will help the Suns?

And who is going to take on Okogie for 8M and only get the worst of a 3 pick swap in 2030?

My guess is they end up eating his contract and paying the full freight.


I didn’t know you saw this specific quote before. I thought it was speculation. I just posted it for confirmation. The hope that the Suns have is supposedly a crack at Tyus via sign and trade. Beyond that, again a TPE or maybe break it into 2 contacts around 4 instead of signing minimums if they make a different move.
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Re: Around the NBA (Part Two) 

Post#328 » by minimus » Sat Jul 13, 2024 6:26 am

winforlose wrote:Found this on hoopshype. This is what I was talking about with Kyle.

“ The Phoenix Suns and Josh Okogie agreed to a two-year, $16 million deal, which is non-guaranteed for the 2025-26 season, league sources told HoopsHype. The Suns gave Okogie an inflated salary in the contract structure to use as a potential trade chip, league sources told HoopsHype.
Source: HoopsHype”

Well, they try to outsmart other teams and GM? Good luck
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Re: Around the NBA (Part Two) 

Post#329 » by winforlose » Sat Jul 13, 2024 6:28 am

minimus wrote:
winforlose wrote:Found this on hoopshype. This is what I was talking about with Kyle.

“ The Phoenix Suns and Josh Okogie agreed to a two-year, $16 million deal, which is non-guaranteed for the 2025-26 season, league sources told HoopsHype. The Suns gave Okogie an inflated salary in the contract structure to use as a potential trade chip, league sources told HoopsHype.
Source: HoopsHype”

Well, they try to outsmart other teams and GM? Good luck


Some teams try to cut salary, other teams try to add it. Which is better, depends on the outcome with bird rights player.
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Re: Around the NBA (Part Two) 

Post#330 » by minimus » Sat Jul 13, 2024 9:38 am

winforlose wrote:
minimus wrote:
winforlose wrote:Found this on hoopshype. This is what I was talking about with Kyle.

“ The Phoenix Suns and Josh Okogie agreed to a two-year, $16 million deal, which is non-guaranteed for the 2025-26 season, league sources told HoopsHype. The Suns gave Okogie an inflated salary in the contract structure to use as a potential trade chip, league sources told HoopsHype.
Source: HoopsHype”

Well, they try to outsmart other teams and GM? Good luck


Some teams try to cut salary, other teams try to add it. Which is better, depends on the outcome with bird rights player.


I mean MIN has just dumped Moore 2 mil, and had to add an early 2nd round pick. Okogie is a better player, but dumping 8 mil during NBA season, when all teams have full roster is not that easy. So I assume PHO are going to pay Okogie contract this season as well as the biggest luxury tax in NBA history. Next summer they would try to dump his contract or get something useful, but here is another gamble: Okogie can either improve his value and get absolutely cold from 3pt distance. In this case his non guaranteed year 2025-26 might help, but I still think Okogie is a minimum deal player.
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Re: Around the NBA (Part Two) 

Post#331 » by winforlose » Sat Jul 13, 2024 9:49 am

minimus wrote:
winforlose wrote:
minimus wrote:Well, they try to outsmart other teams and GM? Good luck


Some teams try to cut salary, other teams try to add it. Which is better, depends on the outcome with bird rights player.


I mean MIN has just dumped Moore 2 mil, and had to add an early 2nd round pick. Okogie is a better player, but dumping 8 mil during NBA season, when all teams have full roster is not that easy. So I assume PHO are going to pay Okogie contract this season as well as the biggest luxury tax in NBA history. Next summer they would try to dump his contract or get something useful, but here is another gamble: Okogie can either improve his value and get absolutely cold from 3pt distance. In this case his non guaranteed year 2025-26 might help, but I still think Okogie is a minimum deal player.


JO and Kyle are different players with different skill sets. I assume the Suns FO had a plan for JO, but the success or failure of that move does not determine what would have happened with our move. I will say that paying JO extra to keep him is worst case scenario for them.
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Re: Around the NBA (Part Two) 

Post#332 » by BlacJacMac » Sat Jul 13, 2024 3:06 pm

minimus wrote:
winforlose wrote:
minimus wrote:Well, they try to outsmart other teams and GM? Good luck


Some teams try to cut salary, other teams try to add it. Which is better, depends on the outcome with bird rights player.


I mean MIN has just dumped Moore 2 mil, and had to add an early 2nd round pick. Okogie is a better player, but dumping 8 mil during NBA season, when all teams have full roster is not that easy. So I assume PHO are going to pay Okogie contract this season as well as the biggest luxury tax in NBA history. Next summer they would try to dump his contract or get something useful, but here is another gamble: Okogie can either improve his value and get absolutely cold from 3pt distance. In this case his non guaranteed year 2025-26 might help, but I still think Okogie is a minimum deal player.


That's my guess as well. They'll waste 60M dollars for him this year and then let him go after the season when they realize he doesn't have 8M value.
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Re: Around the NBA (Part Two) 

Post#333 » by shrink » Sat Jul 13, 2024 4:23 pm

I agree with everybody here. Good for Josh to get paid $8 mil when he’s a vet min level player, but PHX is betting on using him as a walking trade exception. True, re-signing your own free agents is one of the few ways a team over the second apron can add matching salary, but his contract is only useful if it’s traded, and they don’t have the assets to move him. This is a gamble that they may get assets BEFORE the trade deadline by trading someone else, and before the lux tax becomes due.

I understand the play. We’re in a similar situation to PHX financially and I suggested making a similar gamble on Kyle Anderson. However, I wouldn’t have gone any higher on SloMo than the tax-payer MLE ($5,168,000) (and Anderson is worth that) — Okogie is a worse player and he got offered much more.
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Re: Around the NBA (Part Two) 

Post#334 » by winforlose » Sat Jul 13, 2024 5:35 pm

shrink wrote:I agree with everybody here. Good for Josh to get paid $8 mil when he’s a vet min level player, but PHX is betting on using him as a walking trade exception. True, re-signing your own free agents is one of the few ways a team over the second apron can add matching salary, but his contract is only useful if it’s traded, and they don’t have the assets to move him. This is a gamble that they may get assets BEFORE the trade deadline by trading someone else, and before the lux tax becomes due.

I understand the play. We’re in a similar situation to PHX financially and I suggested making a similar gamble on Kyle Anderson. However, I wouldn’t have gone any higher on SloMo than the tax-payer MLE ($5,168,000) (and Anderson is worth that) — Okogie is a worse player and he got offered much more.


All of this is gambling with ownership money. The best case is they get 1 or more players for JO that make them better. The worst case is they blow a ton of money overpaying a minimum guy they didn’t need in the first place. The key to this game of cap chicken is don’t overpay the player to the point you make him a negative asset. Once that happens you need to start adding value to move them, and that has its own problems. Time will tell if JO has any value as a trade piece.
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Re: Around the NBA (Part Two) 

Post#335 » by shrink » Sat Jul 13, 2024 6:19 pm

Nuggets pick DaRon Holmes tore his achilles and is likely out for the season. This is a blow to the Nuggets,who drafted the three year college player expecting to be able to use him this year. Wih the lost of Kentavius Caldwell-Pope, the Nuggets were already very shallow, and hoping some of their young players could step up an fill some of their gaps between their Big Four salaries.
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Re: Around the NBA (Part Two) 

Post#336 » by Nick K » Sat Jul 13, 2024 7:27 pm

BlacJacMac wrote:We were talking about this earlier.

My problem is who is available in trade that makes less than 8M and actually will help the Suns?

And who is going to take on Okogie for 8M and only get the worst of a 3 pick swap in 2030?

My guess is they end up eating his contract and paying the full freight.


Two very good questions!
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Re: Around the NBA (Part Two) 

Post#337 » by minimus » Sun Jul 14, 2024 7:52 am

Read on Twitter


Well, I thought he could be signed for minimum. I guess you should never trust my predictions :)
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Re: Around the NBA (Part Two) 

Post#338 » by Saltine » Sun Jul 14, 2024 11:13 pm

Sealab2024
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Re: Around the NBA (Part Two) 

Post#339 » by Sealab2024 » Mon Jul 15, 2024 1:02 am

Saltine wrote::lol:


:lol: watched this earlier and loved it. "Bronny James is legitimately terrible at basketball. This is off the opening tip...." Coach started in on Bronny from the literal opening tip of the game.
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Re: Around the NBA (Part Two) 

Post#340 » by frankenwolf » Mon Jul 15, 2024 6:17 pm

shrink wrote:I agree with everybody here. Good for Josh to get paid $8 mil when he’s a vet min level player, but PHX is betting on using him as a walking trade exception. True, re-signing your own free agents is one of the few ways a team over the second apron can add matching salary, but his contract is only useful if it’s traded, and they don’t have the assets to move him. This is a gamble that they may get assets BEFORE the trade deadline by trading someone else, and before the lux tax becomes due.

I understand the play. We’re in a similar situation to PHX financially and I suggested making a similar gamble on Kyle Anderson. However, I wouldn’t have gone any higher on SloMo than the tax-payer MLE ($5,168,000) (and Anderson is worth that) — Okogie is a worse player and he got offered much more.


So, correct me if I'm wrong, since PHO is over the 2nd apron, they can not combine outgoing players, right? Who would trade for JO and that $8M salary just to make PHO better? I don't like that addition, but I'm not an NBA GM/POBO either.
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