Game 1: Timberwolves at Blazers (10/22, 9 pm)

[Klomp]

How many times over the years has Finch said we need to move the ball more late in the game. How many playoff losses have been attributed to not moving the ball more late in games. You gave the NFL analogy I gave you the equivalent. I am not saying Ant should not be taking the final shot (sometimes yes, sometimes no,) I am talking about the process of getting the final shot. No pass possession have a tendency to do more harm than good. They are especially bad for teammate morale which translates to defensive issues. If you embrace bad process in favor of good results, then when we get bad results you cannot turn around and say that was bad process. You need to consistently teach Ant to to do it better. Those shots will miss later in the year and everyone will say the ball needs to move more to get better and easier shots. That is my point.

Every game is different. Last night, the team was struggling with making simple passes. Sometimes, a way to move the ball when you can't complete a pass because the defense is hounding you is to just run with it yourself. Sometimes, process has to be thrown out the window. Just get it done, no matter how it looks.

I guarantee, this will not be the level of defense we face every night. Do you really expect Luka to be picking up from 94 feet, or crowding every passing lane? Highly unlikely.

[BlacJacMac]

I've been anti-Bones, but he played well last night.

He played with pace, ran offense and put in effort on defense. His stretch paired with Clark in the backcourt is what started our run.

[winforlose]

How many times over the years has Finch said we need to move the ball more late in the game. How many playoff losses have been attributed to not moving the ball more late in games. You gave the NFL analogy I gave you the equivalent. I am not saying Ant should not be taking the final shot (sometimes yes, sometimes no,) I am talking about the process of getting the final shot. No pass possession have a tendency to do more harm than good. They are especially bad for teammate morale which translates to defensive issues. If you embrace bad process in favor of good results, then when we get bad results you cannot turn around and say that was bad process. You need to consistently teach Ant to to do it better. Those shots will miss later in the year and everyone will say the ball needs to move more to get better and easier shots. That is my point.

Every game is different. Last night, the team was struggling with making simple passes. Sometimes, a way to move the ball when you can't complete a pass because the defense is hounding you is to just run with it yourself. Sometimes, process has to be thrown out the window. Just get it done, no matter how it looks.

I guarantee, this will not be the level of defense we face every night. Do you really expect Luka to be picking up from 94 feet, or crowding every passing lane? Highly unlikely.

Yes every game is different, but when a player whose inclination is to not pass the ball late game and try to win it by himself (regardless of shot quality, team morale, ect…) gets a ton of positive feedback when it works, then he is less inclined to fix the behavior when it doesn’t. Can you honestly tell me that if Ant held the ball for 20 seconds, took 2 or 3 late game shots and missed, you would be fine with it? You would be fine losing to Portland because Ant would rather take a heavily contested step back 15-25 footer, then move the ball and find either an open corner 3 or an open layup? The issue is praising the result. Ant needs to do things the right way habitually if he is ever going to stop doing things the wrong way.

[minimus]

The Bulls with Michael Jordan put great shooters around him and Jordan trusted them to make the clutch shots. Jordan did not have the KoMe mentality about the last shots and the Bulls were more successful because of it.

It is well documented that MJ did not trust his teammates at early stages of his career. It was both his personal growth and coaching work. Same with Kobe.

[Klomp]

Yes every game is different, but when a player whose inclination is to not pass the ball late game and try to win it by himself (regardless of shot quality, team morale, ect…) gets a ton of positive feedback when it works, then he is less inclined to fix the behavior when it doesn’t. Can you honestly tell me that if Ant held the ball for 20 seconds, took 2 or 3 late game shots and missed, you would be fine with it? You would be fine losing to Portland because Ant would rather take a heavily contested step back 15-25 footer, then move the ball and find either an open corner 3 or an open layup? The issue is praising the result. Ant needs to do things the right way habitually if he is ever going to stop doing things the wrong way.

And if moving the ball led to a turnover or missed shot and we lost? You'd praise the process in spite of the results? I have my doubts.

[KGdaBom]

So we need to placate the mentally weak, even if it's to the team's detriment in critical situations?

It doesn't mean they are mentally weak. People tend to be a product of how they are treated. I don't think it would have been a detriment to our team if we had played Dilly instead of Bones. I think Beringer would have made a good impact if given some minutes. However, we didn't get a chance to find out. We won and that's mostly all that matters. I think it would have been less exciting if we had played Dilly and Le Berricade.

Sure.

Losses are never as exciting as wins.

IMO it would have been a much easier win. YMMV.

[Shaka_Zulu]

Finch has a problem with Dilly, I have not other explanation

0 mins with our situation in the PG role are not explainable..

His explanation is he seen what Rob can do, and he knew Portlands army of aggressive athletic wing defenders and Jrue that plays like an angry pitbull, would eaten Robs lunch money in split seconds.


Their full court press would suffocated him (as it did to everyone but Shannon and Ant), and defensively it would been barbecue chicken runs at him every second he was out there.


When the flaws are that clear in a player, and the match up is such a detriment for those flaws, its understandable why he didn't see minutes.


Donte and Mike were getting chewed up out there. It would been even worse for Rob.


I thank our coach for being smart enough to not Reed Sheppard:ed Dilly out there. Reed who was thrown to the wolves vs OKC who plays similar suffocating athletic full court defense Blazers just did vs us.

[Note30]

One way I define hero ball is any possession where the ball does not move and the player who starts with it takes the shot. Ant had at least 2 (the flop by holiday and the step back dagger,) maybe more no pass shots late in the fourth. They went in so we are happy. They miss, and the conversation is why is Ant not passing late in game. Not that Ant shouldn’t be shooting eventually, but we should be running our offense and keeping people involved all game, especially late game.

I don't agree with this. As the game winds down the defensive intensity increases, I don't want anyone trying to take that shot except Ant.

He scored 41 last night. He is without a doubt the best player on this team and in my opinion the only player worth his salt on this roster.

Every team has their best player take the last shot. That's just the way it's been done forever.

Ant really is starting to feel like a top 5 player in this league. I don't know if he's there yet, but I want him running the show.

The Bulls with Michael Jordan put great shooters around him and Jordan trusted them to make the clutch shots. Jordan did not have the KoMe mentality about the last shots and the Bulls were more successful because of it.

Most anecdotal BS ever. At the end of the day, MJ took the last few shots most of the time. That's true for every "best" player ever.

You're wrong about most things but trying to argue that MJ shared the ball significantly more than Kobe in the last few minutes is stupid.

I looked it up Kobe shared FG attempts in the last 5 minutes of the game 43% of the time.

Jordan? 38%

Like I said, anecdotal BS.

And if that's why you think the Bulls were more successful then Ant should take every shot.

Unless you're the 2013 Spurs, the best player takes the shot almost every time.

[Note30]

It doesn't mean they are mentally weak. People tend to be a product of how they are treated. I don't think it would have been a detriment to our team if we had played Dilly instead of Bones. I think Beringer would have made a good impact if given some minutes. However, we didn't get a chance to find out. We won and that's mostly all that matters. I think it would have been less exciting if we had played Dilly and Le Berricade.

Sure.

Losses are never as exciting as wins.

IMO it would have been a much easier win. YMMV.

Lol. You do tend to provide the most entertaining views on this forum.

[BlacJacMac]

Sure.

Losses are never as exciting as wins.

IMO it would have been a much easier win. YMMV.

Lol. You do tend to provide the most entertaining views on this forum.

That is definitely one word for it.

[Klomp]

IMO it would have been a much easier win. YMMV.

Lol. You do tend to provide the most entertaining views on this forum.

That is definitely one word for it.

[life_saver]

Donte's turnovers are a huge issue...I don't trust him when he is driving to the rim, especially when he tries an interior pass while driving...its mostly guaranteed to end up as a turnover

[KGdaBom]

I don't agree with this. As the game winds down the defensive intensity increases, I don't want anyone trying to take that shot except Ant.

He scored 41 last night. He is without a doubt the best player on this team and in my opinion the only player worth his salt on this roster.

Every team has their best player take the last shot. That's just the way it's been done forever.

Ant really is starting to feel like a top 5 player in this league. I don't know if he's there yet, but I want him running the show.

The Bulls with Michael Jordan put great shooters around him and Jordan trusted them to make the clutch shots. Jordan did not have the KoMe mentality about the last shots and the Bulls were more successful because of it.

Most anecdotal BS ever. At the end of the day, MJ took the last few shots most of the time. That's true for every "best" player ever.

You're wrong about most things but trying to argue that MJ shared the ball significantly more than Kobe in the last few minutes is stupid.

I looked it up Kobe shared FG attempts in the last 5 minutes of the game 43% of the time.

Jordan? 38%

Like I said, anecdotal BS.

And if that's why you think the Bulls were more successful then Ant should take every shot.

Unless you're the 2013 Spurs, the best player takes the shot almost every time.

There are famous incidences or Jordan Passing to Gil Hodges or Steve Kerr IIRC for huge game winning shots. I can't think of a time KoMe ever passed up a game winning shot. KoMe was successful on the ESPN clutch shot definition 28% of the time IIRC. I could be a little off. LeBron for example was successful by the ESPN definition close to 50% of the time. Part of being a good player is recognizing your teammates are professionals too and sometimes they will have a better shot than you do.

[KGdaBom]

Sure.

Losses are never as exciting as wins.

IMO it would have been a much easier win. YMMV.

Lol. You do tend to provide the most entertaining views on this forum.

Thank you. I try, but I do mean what I said. We won in spite of Bones not because of him.

[younggunsmn]

I would like to suggest that we don't need a PG as much as we need to learn how to break a press. No matter how good a PG you have, you have people like McDaniels, Toumani, Jrue, that will give that person bringing up the ball all they can handle and more. As a coach I can tell you, passing the ball will get the defense set back on their heels more than one person beating another. I didn't watch the entire game, but the Wolves would vacate after throwing the ball in and you just can't do that with full court pressure. You are daring the other team to take the ball away from you and make easy baskets. Break the press, get easy baskets and other teams will stop pressing you.

Every player you bring up to help get the ball up the court brings another defender with him to trap the ballhandler.
Say you bring Jaden up to help and Dante passes to Jaden. Now they trap Jaden, a non-primary ballhandler, at halfcourt.

There's a reason they do things the way they do.
These are the best most skilled players in the world.
If you can't consistently get the ball up the court one on one without turning it over you don't deserve to play guard in the NBA.
That's the truth.

[KGdaBom]

I would like to suggest that we don't need a PG as much as we need to learn how to break a press. No matter how good a PG you have, you have people like McDaniels, Toumani, Jrue, that will give that person bringing up the ball all they can handle and more. As a coach I can tell you, passing the ball will get the defense set back on their heels more than one person beating another. I didn't watch the entire game, but the Wolves would vacate after throwing the ball in and you just can't do that with full court pressure. You are daring the other team to take the ball away from you and make easy baskets. Break the press, get easy baskets and other teams will stop pressing you.

Every player you bring up to help get the ball up the court brings another defender with him to trap the ballhandler.
Say you bring Jaden up to help and Dante passes to Jaden. Now they trap Jaden, a non-primary ballhandler at halfcourt.

There's a reason they do things the way they do.
These are the best most skilled players in the world.
If you can't consistently get the ball up the court one on one without turning it over you don't deserve to play guard in the NBA.
That's the truth.

Absolutely, but the coach can scheme ways to make it easier.

[younggunsmn]

It doesn't mean they are mentally weak. People tend to be a product of how they are treated. I don't think it would have been a detriment to our team if we had played Dilly instead of Bones. I think Beringer would have made a good impact if given some minutes. However, we didn't get a chance to find out. We won and that's mostly all that matters. I think it would have been less exciting if we had played Dilly and Le Berricade.

Sure.

Losses are never as exciting as wins.

IMO it would have been a much easier win. YMMV.

KG, I know you don't want to hear it but we would have lost last night if Dillingham had played.

As bad as Naz and Randle were defensively together, we didn't have the margin tonight to put Beringer in.
We were treading water and taking punches for most of the game trying to keep them from expanding their lead to 10 or more.
If they had gotten it to double digits I don't know if we would have been able to come back given how much the starters struggled on both ends.

[KGdaBom]

Sure.

Losses are never as exciting as wins.

IMO it would have been a much easier win. YMMV.

KG, I know you don't want to hear it but we would have lost last night if Dillingham had played.

As bad as Naz and Randle were defensively together, we didn't have the margin tonight to put Beringer in.
We were treading water and taking punches for most of the game trying to keep them from expanding their lead to 10 or more.
If they had gotten it to double digits I don't know if we would have been able to come back given how much the starters struggled on both ends.

I think you're wrong. You think you're right. We won, but did we win at a cost to our future. I think we win either way, just easier with Le Berricade and Dilly getting some minutes.

[Klomp]

Quietly, Julius had a 19/7/6 night last night on 54% shooting. Exactly what we need from him!

[BlacJacMac]

The Bulls with Michael Jordan put great shooters around him and Jordan trusted them to make the clutch shots. Jordan did not have the KoMe mentality about the last shots and the Bulls were more successful because of it.

Most anecdotal BS ever. At the end of the day, MJ took the last few shots most of the time. That's true for every "best" player ever.

You're wrong about most things but trying to argue that MJ shared the ball significantly more than Kobe in the last few minutes is stupid.

I looked it up Kobe shared FG attempts in the last 5 minutes of the game 43% of the time.

Jordan? 38%

Like I said, anecdotal BS.

And if that's why you think the Bulls were more successful then Ant should take every shot.

Unless you're the 2013 Spurs, the best player takes the shot almost every time.

There are famous incidences or Jordan Passing to Gil Hodges or Steve Kerr IIRC for huge game winning shots. I can't think of a time KoMe ever passed up a game winning shot. KoMe was successful on the ESPN clutch shot definition 28% of the time IIRC. I could be a little off. LeBron for example was successful by the ESPN definition close to 50% of the time. Part of being a good player is recognizing your teammates are professionals too and sometimes they will have a better shot than you do.

You're familiar with "the exception that proves the rule"?