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Trade Talk (Part Four)

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Neeva
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#341 » by Neeva » Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:39 pm

Jedzz wrote:
Neeva wrote:Who would be a better forward for the wolves Gordon or Kuzma?


Are you talking in addition Juancho? Is Kuzma really any kind of upgrade from Juancho? Seems a little sideways to me. Where Gordon brings some things a little different or additional in the form of size/defense/above the rim playing.


I agree that Gordon would be better defensively but Kuzma is improving defensively and would be more dynamic offensively. if the trade with the lakers involves three teams and gets the wolves the Lakers 29th pick in this years draft (Tyler bey?defense!) and the lakers 2021 frp OR 2022 frp in addition to Kuzma for the Brooklyn pick and filler , I might consider it because then the wolves can keep Johnson for next season and then sign Kuzma to similar contract to Johnson.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#342 » by Norseman79 » Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:02 pm

Kuzma seems like a d bag. Gordon seems much more grounded. If either of them were to come in, I think Gordon meshes better with role and culture.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#343 » by Jedzz » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:55 pm

Norseman79 wrote:Kuzma seems like a d bag. Gordon seems much more grounded. If either of them were to come in, I think Gordon meshes better with role and culture.
Uh, Gordon seems like his very own brand of strange to be honest. He's got a little bit of a "me" personality. I suppose I don't know enough about him. Only seeing blips in the media or watching him repeat the same dunks in contests and expecting a different outcome and crying foul as if he's cheated. Or seeing him take his shoes off early in a dunk contest and says "I'm done". I don't know about grounded. I don't know about personality fit. I just don't know. He's an interesting talent to think about fitting into this unique team though, I admit.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#344 » by Jedzz » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:56 pm

Neeva wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
Neeva wrote:Who would be a better forward for the wolves Gordon or Kuzma?


Are you talking in addition Juancho? Is Kuzma really any kind of upgrade from Juancho? Seems a little sideways to me. Where Gordon brings some things a little different or additional in the form of size/defense/above the rim playing.


I agree that Gordon would be better defensively but Kuzma is improving defensively and would be more dynamic offensively. if the trade with the lakers involves three teams and gets the wolves the Lakers 29th pick in this years draft (Tyler bey?defense!) and the lakers 2021 frp OR 2022 frp in addition to Kuzma for the Brooklyn pick and filler , I might consider it because then the wolves can keep Johnson for next season and then sign Kuzma to similar contract to Johnson.
Oh I see now you have bigger plans I wasn't thinking about.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#345 » by KGdaBom » Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:06 pm

old school 34 wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:BS as usual wrote about Aminu for Culver, Evans trade

https://dunkingwithwolves.com/2020/07/19/b-r-lists-al-farouq-aminu-target-minnesota-timberwolves/

While Aminu for Culver, Evans is clearly an awful trade, I'd try to do following:

Aminu, #15 for Culver, Evans, Nowell

Why for ORL: even before injury Aminu was a bad fit in ORL. Now he is a negative contract at PF position where ORL have better players in Gordon and Isaac. They don't have star power at wings, they could use Culver and Nowell and develop them into solid players.

Why for MIN: Aminu played for Vanterpool in POR as defensive minded big, as we can see Rosas listens David and a few POR players had a chance to play for MIN (Layman, Crabbe). Aminu is a veteran who could help our young players to develop. He also has two years in contract left, and might become an expiring in 2021-22 season

Second trade is JJ for GSW TPE.
Third trade is #15, #16, Spellman for #5

Draft Hayes, Vassell, Xaiver Tillman

KAT(30)/Reid(10)/Tillman(8))
Aminu(15)/Juancho(25)/Vanderbilt(8)
Vassell(25)/Layman(20)/Martin(3)
Beasley(25)/Okogie(20)/DLo(3)
DLo(25)/Hayes(15)/JMac(8)I

Why it might work: a healthy Aminu + Vassell duo should be good enough to make us an average defensive unit. With KAT/Reid/Tillman at С and DLo/Hayes/JMac at PG we would stabilize team backbone, we create an axis which can be used to implement different schemes.

I hate it. Maybe if it was a #6 pick where we got Culver.
Most likely Aminu is more just noise, but got me thinking some? In getting AG (assuming Booker not coming this offseason & means we're resigning Beasley which I'm good with) done then...my concern is GSW driving the price up....if they're offering TE & top 5 pick that gets more expensive than I'd prefer going....& I throw JJ into any deal like that but his vet presence is probably real....so with that in mind, would we consider:

MIN gets...Aminu and AG for JJ, Spellman, Evans, Culver, and 16 (or our top 5 & get their 15 back?)

Why for them...get their pf glut moved...& being able to dump Aminu is something GSW can't offer...could put some of the 1+3 contracts in there instead as well if they wanted to create some immediate salary space?

For us...Culver obviously didn't have a great rookie year & will obviously improve (just to what degree is the risk) could replace in draft with say Vassell and maybe not perfect but could roll with both Aminu & AG as starters @ 3&4...Aminu provide some vet leadership (that JJ offered & understanding of Vanterpool's system) & then a year later could be valuable expiring trade chip again?...neither great 3 pt shooters but have Layman & juancho providing that off bench?

DLo/JMac/
Beasley/Okogie/
Aminu/Layman/Vassell
Gordon/Juancho/Vanderbilt
KAT/Naz/

Still have 2nd rounder, Martin, Nowell (if not thrown in as filler), and mid-level to fill remaining spots...think I could warm to something like that...while not sure how much Aminu has left in the tank...if taking his last two years off their hands...i think we could still find value with him taking a roster spot?

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I hate that trade also.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#346 » by shrink » Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:31 am

I thought I’d bring this one over from the Trade Board

Texas Chuck wrote:The premise here is Minnesota really wanting to get back to the playoffs now and Toronto not wanting to invest new contracts in Ibaka/Gasol/FVV and wanting to take a year to build some assets and go hard after Giannis/other FA's in 2021.

James Johnson
2020 Minny 1st (assumes they do not move into the top 2)

for

Norman Powell
OG Anunoby
Toronto combines assets to get a top 5 draft pick.

Minnesota gets the best wing defender in the entire league, a solid wing in Powell and a late 1st to add some affordable depth to a roster that is locked in cap wise.
Sign5 wrote:Yea not happening, I expected a better retort but what do I expect from realgm(ers) in 2025. Just quote and state things that lack context, then repeat the same thing over and over as if something new and profound was said. Just lol.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#347 » by shrink » Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:40 am

Here’s another Texas Chuck trade that I thought deserved some discussion.

Texas Chuck wrote:Johnson
2020 Nets 1st (projected 16)

for

Bjelica
Holmes

I keep overpaying for Bjelica but here its okay because they also get Holmes. I'd have both Bjelica and Holmes worth a late 1st so combined a mid 1st seems about right.

Minny completes their front court rotation with Towns with old friend Bjelica and Holmes. They lean into the offense knowing Towns/Russell as your core makes a good defense very difficult so make the offense as good as you can.

Kings cash out on a couple of expiring solid players, create way more opportunity to see if Bagley is worth being in the core and keep adding assets in hopes of a consolidation deal.
Sign5 wrote:Yea not happening, I expected a better retort but what do I expect from realgm(ers) in 2025. Just quote and state things that lack context, then repeat the same thing over and over as if something new and profound was said. Just lol.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#348 » by Neeva » Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:54 am

shrink wrote:Here’s another Texas Chuck trade that I thought deserved some discussion.

Texas Chuck wrote:Johnson
2020 Nets 1st (projected 16)

for

Bjelica
Holmes

I keep overpaying for Bjelica but here its okay because they also get Holmes. I'd have both Bjelica and Holmes worth a late 1st so combined a mid 1st seems about right.

Minny completes their front court rotation with Towns with old friend Bjelica and Holmes. They lean into the offense knowing Towns/Russell as your core makes a good defense very difficult so make the offense as good as you can.

Kings cash out on a couple of expiring solid players, create way more opportunity to see if Bagley is worth being in the core and keep adding assets in hopes of a consolidation deal.



If wolves trade the nets pick I hope its for a starter.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#349 » by karch34 » Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:12 am

shrink wrote:I thought I’d bring this one over from the Trade Board

Texas Chuck wrote:The premise here is Minnesota really wanting to get back to the playoffs now and Toronto not wanting to invest new contracts in Ibaka/Gasol/FVV and wanting to take a year to build some assets and go hard after Giannis/other FA's in 2021.

James Johnson
2020 Minny 1st (assumes they do not move into the top 2)

for

Norman Powell
OG Anunoby
Toronto combines assets to get a top 5 draft pick.

Minnesota gets the best wing defender in the entire league, a solid wing in Powell and a late 1st to add some affordable depth to a roster that is locked in cap wise.


Powell's contract and need to move Culver or Okogie assuming Beasley resigned is only issue as second trade required but very possible
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#350 » by shangrila » Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:20 am

Out of curiosity, what are you guys' thoughts on the worst case draft scenario where we drop to 7th? That would presumably put us out of the running for Edwards, Ball and Wiseman at minimum with some combination of Avdija, Hayes, Okongwu, Toppin and maybe Haliburton or Vassell being unavailable as well.

Would you trade it? Just draft BPA?
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#351 » by Klomp » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:38 am

shangrila wrote:Out of curiosity, what are you guys' thoughts on the worst case draft scenario where we drop to 7th? That would presumably put us out of the running for Edwards, Ball and Wiseman at minimum with some combination of Avdija, Hayes, Okongwu, Toppin and maybe Haliburton or Vassell being unavailable as well.

Would you trade it? Just draft BPA?

I think it really depends on who's there. I feel like there's enough guys who will fit here though to make the pick worthwhile to keep.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#352 » by shangrila » Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:31 am

Klomp wrote:
shangrila wrote:Out of curiosity, what are you guys' thoughts on the worst case draft scenario where we drop to 7th? That would presumably put us out of the running for Edwards, Ball and Wiseman at minimum with some combination of Avdija, Hayes, Okongwu, Toppin and maybe Haliburton or Vassell being unavailable as well.

Would you trade it? Just draft BPA?

I think it really depends on who's there. I feel like there's enough guys who will fit here though to make the pick worthwhile to keep.

Honestly, I was curious if it might be the tipping point for trading down with Orlando to pick up Gordon.

I know the consensus is sort of Johnson+16+maybe Okogie is enough for AG but Orlando fans seem to think it requires more. So if we land at 7 and don't have as attractive a piece to choose from, I'm interested if anyone would accept an AG+15 (or wherever they land) for 7+Johnson+whatever (or nothing).

I wouldn't hate that deal but it probably wouldn't be my first choice either.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#353 » by shrink » Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:55 am

shangrila wrote:Out of curiosity, what are you guys' thoughts on the worst case draft scenario where we drop to 7th? That would presumably put us out of the running for Edwards, Ball and Wiseman at minimum with some combination of Avdija, Hayes, Okongwu, Toppin and maybe Haliburton or Vassell being unavailable as well.

Would you trade it? Just draft BPA?

I think trading the pick is very possible, even including if we draft 1st.

It’s generally considered to be pretty rare for the #1 overall pick to get traded, but it has happened more frequently lately with Wiggins and Fultz. Before that you’d have to go back to 1993 and a Chris Webber. In general, the #1 pick has extra value beyond just the player to the team that gets it - it gives the front office the chance to sell hope to a fanbase that generally needs it. The #1 pick headlines all the stories about young talent leading up to the lottery, at the lottery, stories leading up to the draft, at the draft, and gets featured in stories on newcomers before the season starts. This extra publicity helps sell tickets.

Now, MIN is certainly in need of ticket sales, but they are in a pretty unusual position. They can already sell hope based on already adding a young star at the trade deadline, which because of Covid we didn’t get to see much of. In fact, the whole team changed on draft night - they already have change regardless of the pick. Other teams that need that publicity more (say, Charlotte), may be willing to pay a lot for it. Next, despite the team’s youth, it’s quite possible they will be trying for the playoffs, rather than simply rebuilding. The top pick (probably Wiseman, but lots of time for change before the draft) plays the same position as our franchise player. Finally, a new owner might want to trade the pick to add a player he wants.

In general, I am not in favor of trading the pick unless it’s for a pretty special player. I think it will take some time to develop, and we can use a rebuilding season. We also owe a pick next year, so this could be our last chance at a top young prospect for a while. We just need to hope the new administration picks the RIGHT player - something previous front offices have failed at, despite many chances. However, I think realistically there is a good chance that the front office could trade our pick, regardless of where it falls.
Sign5 wrote:Yea not happening, I expected a better retort but what do I expect from realgm(ers) in 2025. Just quote and state things that lack context, then repeat the same thing over and over as if something new and profound was said. Just lol.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#354 » by Jedzz » Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:56 pm

shrink wrote:Here’s another Texas Chuck trade that I thought deserved some discussion.

Texas Chuck wrote:Johnson
2020 Nets 1st (projected 16)

for

Bjelica
Holmes

I keep overpaying for Bjelica but here its okay because they also get Holmes. I'd have both Bjelica and Holmes worth a late 1st so combined a mid 1st seems about right.

Minny completes their front court rotation with Towns with old friend Bjelica and Holmes. They lean into the offense knowing Towns/Russell as your core makes a good defense very difficult so make the offense as good as you can.

Kings cash out on a couple of expiring solid players, create way more opportunity to see if Bagley is worth being in the core and keep adding assets in hopes of a consolidation deal.


I haven't looked but if he's saying both Bjelica and Holmes are expiring, then this is the Wovles sending out one decent expiring player and a FRP for nothing in return but players they would have to resign? Where does the money come from to resign these players?
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#355 » by karch34 » Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:59 pm

shangrila wrote:Out of curiosity, what are you guys' thoughts on the worst case draft scenario where we drop to 7th? That would presumably put us out of the running for Edwards, Ball and Wiseman at minimum with some combination of Avdija, Hayes, Okongwu, Toppin and maybe Haliburton or Vassell being unavailable as well.

Would you trade it? Just draft BPA?

I think our pick and JJ expiring are what front office is looking at for star hunting or at least one more significant piece, then use 16 and 2nd rounder purely for role players with at least one specific skill. The reports for what they're worth looks like most teams want to trade down which I can see if only because historically GMs have liked a certain guy but would rather get him 4 spots later and pick up something (Rusillo talked about this in previous drafts).

This year being so different makes anything tough to predict but I don't see a lot of buyers. I'd look to trade down at 7 only because I see a lot of players that project to be 5-8 in a rotation and would rather get that at cheaper guaranteed deal. That's in the vacuum of not knowing how first 6 picks go though.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#356 » by Neeva » Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:49 pm

It would not surprise me if the new ownership decides to stay young and not do any trades. Pick BPA for all three picks this draft and then hope they win the lottery in 2021.

With the plan to go full win now mode for the 2021-2022 season and make the playoffs again (plus give the warriors a pick in the twenties) I think in the long run that is probably the best way to go. A core of Kat,Dlo, Edwards or Wiseman or Hayes, Culver, Beasley, Jalen Green or Cade Cunnningham, Okogie, plus the nets pick (hoping Toppin falls) will be one of the most exciting and most potent in the entire league and wolves will have enough ammo to trade for a star if they want to (Booker).
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#357 » by KGdaBom » Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:05 am

shangrila wrote:Out of curiosity, what are you guys' thoughts on the worst case draft scenario where we drop to 7th? That would presumably put us out of the running for Edwards, Ball and Wiseman at minimum with some combination of Avdija, Hayes, Okongwu, Toppin and maybe Haliburton or Vassell being unavailable as well.

Would you trade it? Just draft BPA?

Of those options give me in order
Okongwu that would be a steal
Avdija
Toppin
Hayes
Vassell
Haliburton.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#358 » by shangrila » Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:44 am

KGdaBom wrote:
shangrila wrote:Out of curiosity, what are you guys' thoughts on the worst case draft scenario where we drop to 7th? That would presumably put us out of the running for Edwards, Ball and Wiseman at minimum with some combination of Avdija, Hayes, Okongwu, Toppin and maybe Haliburton or Vassell being unavailable as well.

Would you trade it? Just draft BPA?

Of those options give me in order
Okongwu that would be a steal
Avdija
Toppin
Hayes
Vassell
Haliburton.

As in that's who you're hoping is still available? That's what that part of my post was talking about, that some combination of those guys would also be gone alongside the consensus top 3 guys and not that those guys would be available there. Sorry if it was worded poorly.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#359 » by old school 34 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:43 am

shangrila wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
shangrila wrote:Out of curiosity, what are you guys' thoughts on the worst case draft scenario where we drop to 7th? That would presumably put us out of the running for Edwards, Ball and Wiseman at minimum with some combination of Avdija, Hayes, Okongwu, Toppin and maybe Haliburton or Vassell being unavailable as well.

Would you trade it? Just draft BPA?

Of those options give me in order
Okongwu that would be a steal
Avdija
Toppin
Hayes
Vassell
Haliburton.

As in that's who you're hoping is still available? That's what that part of my post was talking about, that some combination of those guys would also be gone alongside the consensus top 3 guys and not that those guys would be available there. Sorry if it was worded poorly.
The 3 that I kind of like @ the top are Okongwu, Vassell, and Hayes....order undecided yet &/or dependent on what other moves one felt we could pull off yet....so 7 gets dicey but I'd be comfortable staying put if I felt there was a home for either Deni or Topin in front of us? But agree with most others think Rosas' thought is it's more valuable as a trade chip for a little older (than draft pick anyways) starter?

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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#360 » by old school 34 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:49 am

karch34 wrote:
shrink wrote:I thought I’d bring this one over from the Trade Board

Texas Chuck wrote:The premise here is Minnesota really wanting to get back to the playoffs now and Toronto not wanting to invest new contracts in Ibaka/Gasol/FVV and wanting to take a year to build some assets and go hard after Giannis/other FA's in 2021.

James Johnson
2020 Minny 1st (assumes they do not move into the top 2)

for

Norman Powell
OG Anunoby
Toronto combines assets to get a top 5 draft pick.

Minnesota gets the best wing defender in the entire league, a solid wing in Powell and a late 1st to add some affordable depth to a roster that is locked in cap wise.


Powell's contract and need to move Culver or Okogie assuming Beasley resigned is only issue as second trade required but very possible
I cannot sign off on that one quick enough. Rosas knows how to move assets if we get a back log there which I agree would need to happen, but well worth it for OG...but in all reality I'd actually expect that we'd need to throw Okogie or Culver into said deal just to make it happen...which I still have no problem doing.

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