Trade Talk (Part Seven)

[Note30]

Want some opinions here:

Does KAT + Beasley + (Reid/Bolmaro) + minor picks = Sabonis, Turner, Brogdon, and Brisette?
Does DLO + 3 UFRP = Dame?

Cause a lineup of

Dame, Edwards, McDaniels, Sabonis, Turner,


With Rubio (could trade to Toronto for FVV, would require picks)and Brogdon, Brisette off the bench sounds insanely good.


Dame 6’3 / Brogdon 6’5
Edwards 6’4 / (FVV 6’0 or Rubio 6'4)
McDaniels 6’8 / Brisett 6-7
Sabonis 6’11 / Vando 6-11
Turner 7’0 / Reid 6-9 / Holmes 6-10 (FA)

[Worm Guts]

I have a lot to say on these topics, but not a lot of time, so I will limit my discussion to one area.

I don’t ask how good or bad a player is, to determine if he should be traded. I ask if he might have more value elsewhere, so if he was traded, we could get something back in trade so both teams win.

Naz Reid is a good example. He’s played very well here, his growth from being undrafted is tremendous and he is very coachable, and his salary is as good as you can get. He definitely has positive value here. However, he may have more value on another team.

Right now, he is probably the 20th best center in the NBA, and he could get better. As the 20th best center, he could start for several teams in the NBA (for example, BOS or CHA), and he would get starter minutes. He has more value to them than he has to us. And that value may decrease next year, once he gets adequately paid as an RFA (MIN is unlikely to take one more season at the min and let him become a UFA. If Naz is paid, other teams may look at the many vet centers in the NBA that can handle the deemphasized center position for a vet min deal.

I would also add that while he has some extra value to Rosas because he makes him look good as a talent evaluator, if Naz is traded for, say, a late 1st, Rosas has the chance to add more talent and make another good pick. I have Rosas as 5-of-6 getting more value back than the pick (Naz, McDaniels, Nowell, Bolmaro, probably Ant, vs Culver). The team needs more overall talent, so trading Naz for value gives Rosas an asset and available minutes to use his skill to improve the team. We only take advantage of Rosas’ best skill if the team is willing to churn.

Naz is tricky. I’m not sure what Naz’s value is, I think being an offensive player at a defensive position hurts it. I think his upside is probably higher than what you can get back for him. Ideally I think we should keep him and see what he develops into but it also depends on what he expects as a 2nd contract. It may not make sense for us to pay him.

[younggunsmn]

I have a lot to say on these topics, but not a lot of time, so I will limit my discussion to one area.

I don’t ask how good or bad a player is, to determine if he should be traded. I ask if he might have more value elsewhere, so if he was traded, we could get something back in trade so both teams win.

Naz Reid is a good example. He’s played very well here, his growth from being undrafted is tremendous and he is very coachable, and his salary is as good as you can get. He definitely has positive value here. However, he may have more value on another team.

Right now, he is probably the 20th best center in the NBA, and he could get better. As the 20th best center, he could start for several teams in the NBA (for example, BOS or CHA), and he would get starter minutes. He has more value to them than he has to us. And that value may decrease next year, once he gets adequately paid as an RFA (MIN is unlikely to take one more season at the min and let him become a UFA. If Naz is paid, other teams may look at the many vet centers in the NBA that can handle the deemphasized center position for a vet min deal.

I would also add that while he has some extra value to Rosas because he makes him look good as a talent evaluator, if Naz is traded for, say, a late 1st, Rosas has the chance to add more talent and make another good pick. I have Rosas as 5-of-6 getting more value back than the pick (Naz, McDaniels, Nowell, Bolmaro, probably Ant, vs Culver). The team needs more overall talent, so trading Naz for value gives Rosas an asset and available minutes to use his skill to improve the team. We only take advantage of Rosas’ best skill if the team is willing to churn.

I like your thought process on the concept of having more value to another team, whether that comes from lack of playing time, scheme, fit etc. But we've also brought plenty of guys in for a "change of scenery" who came out on fire and we got all excited, but eventually they reverted to form and pretty much ended up being who we thought they were in the first place.
Like the sczcerbiak/ricky davis trade and marcus banks to name a couple. Beasley is pretty much the same player as in Denver except with starter minutes and usage.
I never buy in much to the "change of scenery", or one's man trash is anothers treasure type of dealmaking. Reminds me of all the years of the Twins dumpster diving for pitching because they can't develop their own.

On Naz Reid specifically, I think you are highly overvaluing him because of his spectacular lack of defense and rebounding.
There are many similiar players like Isaiah Hartenstein who can't even consistently hold down a roster spot.
Naz has a specific value to us in that he can duplicate much of KAT's offensive skill set, so we can bring him into the game seamlessly without changing up our offense. Say we got a decent offer for him and could get a player we really liked in the early 2nd for him. Who do we replace Naz with after we trade him away? We didnt grab any of the rotation bigs in the middle of last year's draft or we might actually be able to deal from a postion of strength if we wanted to trade him away.

[SO_MONEY]

I have a lot to say on these topics, but not a lot of time, so I will limit my discussion to one area.

I don’t ask how good or bad a player is, to determine if he should be traded. I ask if he might have more value elsewhere, so if he was traded, we could get something back in trade so both teams win.

Naz Reid is a good example. He’s played very well here, his growth from being undrafted is tremendous and he is very coachable, and his salary is as good as you can get. He definitely has positive value here. However, he may have more value on another team.

Right now, he is probably the 20th best center in the NBA, and he could get better. As the 20th best center, he could start for several teams in the NBA (for example, BOS or CHA), and he would get starter minutes. He has more value to them than he has to us. And that value may decrease next year, once he gets adequately paid as an RFA (MIN is unlikely to take one more season at the min and let him become a UFA. If Naz is paid, other teams may look at the many vet centers in the NBA that can handle the deemphasized center position for a vet min deal.

I would also add that while he has some extra value to Rosas because he makes him look good as a talent evaluator, if Naz is traded for, say, a late 1st, Rosas has the chance to add more talent and make another good pick. I have Rosas as 5-of-6 getting more value back than the pick (Naz, McDaniels, Nowell, Bolmaro, probably Ant, vs Culver). The team needs more overall talent, so trading Naz for value gives Rosas an asset and available minutes to use his skill to improve the team. We only take advantage of Rosas’ best skill if the team is willing to churn.

Naz is tricky. I’m not sure what Naz’s value is, I think being an offensive player at a defensive position hurts it. I think his upside is probably higher than what you can get back for him. Ideally I think we should keep him and see what he develops into but it also depends on what he expects as a 2nd contract. It may not make sense for us to pay him.

I don't think GMs are stupid (in general) so I think he has a ton of value across the league, a TON.

[Klomp]

On Naz Reid specifically, I think you are highly overvaluing him because of his spectacular lack of defense and rebounding.
There are many similiar players like Isaiah Hartenstein who can't even consistently hold down a roster spot.
Naz has a specific value to us in that he can duplicate much of KAT's offensive skill set, so we can bring him into the game seamlessly without changing up our offense. Say we got a decent offer for him and could get a player we really liked in the early 2nd for him. Who do we replace Naz with after we trade him away? We didnt grab any of the rotation bigs in the middle of last year's draft or we might actually be able to deal from a postion of strength if we wanted to trade him away.

You make some decent points, but the Hartenstein comp is so off.

[Calinks]

Juancho is hurt and probably wont be traded this summer. No Olympics for him.

Read on Twitter

[shangrila]

Juancho is hurt and probably wont be traded this summer. No Olympics for him.

Read on Twitter

He could still act as salary filler, since he's essentially an expiring.

It does suck though. Finch seems to like him and if nothing else he's a solid shooter at his position.

[Slim Tubby]

Juancho is hurt and probably wont be traded this summer. No Olympics for him.

Read on Twitter

He could still act as salary filler, since he's essentially an expiring.

It does suck though. Finch seems to like him and if nothing else he's a solid shooter at his position.

Agree 100%, shangrila...the injury means nothing if his salary is being used in a trade for ballast. If we keep him, the injury should mean even more playing time for McDaniels, which from what I can tell, is about the only topic this board seems to be in complete agreement on.

[Klomp]

Read on Twitter

[jscott]

Read on Twitter

Thanks for posting!! Possible to get a synopsis? Stuck behind a paywall.

[Howard Cosell]

Read on Twitter

[Klomp]

Thanks for posting!! Possible to get a synopsis? Stuck behind a paywall.

Read on Twitter

[shangrila]

I'll be shocked if a Simmons deal happens at all, let alone with us involved.

[SO_MONEY]

I'll be shocked if a Simmons deal happens at all, let alone with us involved.

I don't know, but his value is at his lowest and there are multiple PFs likely on the market reducing offers further, it will be interesting what Philly does, they are kind of against the wall. Would they turn down a deal at this point that improves the team even if said deal doesn't uphold the Simmons hype machine? Would they risk another year for Simmons to again demonstrate stagnant development and be worth even less? As I said I don't know, not sure Philly even knows.

[Klomp]

I'll be shocked if a Simmons deal happens at all, let alone with us involved.

Simmons is probably gone. I think Embiid will issue a Butler-like "him or me" ultimatum.

[Tomjas]

I'll be shocked if a Simmons deal happens at all, let alone with us involved.

Simmons is probably gone. I think Embiid will issue a Butler-like "him or me" ultimatum.

Klutch met with the Sixers a couple of weeks ago

He’s gone and it’s just a matter of where to

[karch34]

I'll be shocked if a Simmons deal happens at all, let alone with us involved.

Simmons is probably gone. I think Embiid will issue a Butler-like "him or me" ultimatum.

Klutch met with the Sixers a couple of weeks ago

He’s gone and it’s just a matter of where to

Agreed. He got thrown under the bus by their best player and coach. It’s not going to last. That said I think where he goes will surprise by destination and also that it’s more than fans thought their team would give up but less than what Sixers fans expect.

[Neeva]

Probably will end up wolves, philly and Toronto. Rubio, Naz Reid to toronto, Simmons to Minny, Lowry, Beasley, and protected 1st to Philly.

[Tomjas]

Simmons is probably gone. I think Embiid will issue a Butler-like "him or me" ultimatum.

Klutch met with the Sixers a couple of weeks ago

He’s gone and it’s just a matter of where to

Agreed. He got thrown under the bus by their best player and coach. It’s not going to last. That said I think where he goes will surprise by destination and also that it’s more than fans thought their team would give up but less than what Sixers fans expect.

Simmons is a very polarising player and no more so than with Sixers fans as many tend to blame him for everything while letting others skate

People will do well to remember that he owes his AS appearances to the coaches not the fans so there’s going to be competition for him

As a Sixers fan, I don’t expect a king’s ransom for him but he’s not going to come cheap either

[SO_MONEY]

Klutch met with the Sixers a couple of weeks ago

He’s gone and it’s just a matter of where to

Agreed. He got thrown under the bus by their best player and coach. It’s not going to last. That said I think where he goes will surprise by destination and also that it’s more than fans thought their team would give up but less than what Sixers fans expect.

Simmons is a very polarising player and no more so than with Sixers fans as many tend to blame him for everything while letting others skate

People will do well to remember that he owes his AS appearances to the coaches not the fans so there’s going to be competition for him

As a Sixers fan, I don’t expect a king’s ransom for him but he’s not going to come cheap either

I expect him to get a Vucivic type of deal. Anything more no thanks.