Trade Talk (Part Eight)

[shrink]

Including Russell in a Simmons swap has many pluses:

1. Salary - Adding Simmons without trading Russell leaves us with three max deal players, which would be hard to build around, especially in MIN who isn’t getting free agents to come here at a discount. Rosas is aware of the problem too, because when he traded for Russell, he made sure he included Wiggins, rather than a Covington trade that GSW would have done more cheaply.

2. Friendship. People make a big deal of KAT’s friendship with Russell, but KAT is also good friends with Simmons too. So much so, that after the brawl with Embiid, he allegedly called the NBA front office to ask that Simmons didn’t get suspended. Russell is regularly listed as one of the ten worst contracts in the NBA. Swapping him for Simmons, a more talented KAT friend, may be one way that Rosas could get him off the roster. As you recall, at the beginning of this, Rosas said the two players off the table in a Simmons trade were KAT and Edwards. When people grilled him about omitting DLO, he later added him, but there is obviously a big distinction here on who we would trade.

3. Where does Russell rank among PGs? I imagine he is not in the Top 20, because the position right now is so packed with talent. In fact, considering vets and young players, the marginal cost to replace Russell at PG is much smaller than replacing a wing, or a Simmons. Ironically, PHI is one of the few teams in the league that would put some value on Russell, because his strong points are things they need, and his weaknesses are things that that team has covered. Our team is the opposite - we need more defense, we have lots of scoring already and a center that shoots three’s. Both Simmons and DLo are more valuable with the ball in their hands, and there is only one ball.

I’m sure people know by now that I am not in favor of a Simmons trade, at the trade prices often listed here. However, I could get on board if DLo went out, because it reduces a few of the major problems I see the Wolves facing in the future.

[SO_MONEY]

Including Russell in a Simmons swap has many pluses:

1. Salary - Adding Simmons without trading Russell leaves us with three max deal players, which would be hard to build around, especially in MIN who isn’t getting free agents to come here at a discount. Rosas is aware of the problem too, because when he traded for Russell, he made sure he included Wiggins, rather than a Covington trade that GSW would have done more cheaply.

2. Friendship. People make a big deal of KAT’s friendship with Russell, but KAT is also good friends with Simmons too. So much so, that after the brawl with Embiid, he allegedly called the NBA front office to ask that Simmons didn’t get suspended. Russell is regularly listed as one of the ten worst contracts in the NBA. Swapping him for Simmons, a more talented KAT friend, may be one way that Rosas could get him off the roster. As you recall, at the beginning of this, Rosas said the two players off the table in a Simmons trade were KAT and Edwards. When people grilled him about omitting DLO, he later added him, but there is obviously a big distinction here on who we would trade.

3. Where does Russell rank among PGs? I imagine he is not in the Top 20, because the position right now is so packed with talent. In fact, considering vets and young players, the marginal cost to replace Russell at PG is much smaller than replacing a wing, or a Simmons. Ironically, PHI is one of the few teams in the league that would put some value on Russell, because his strong points are things they need, and his weaknesses are things that that team has covered. Our team is the opposite - we need more defense, we have lots of scoring already and a center that shoots three’s. Both Simmons and DLo are more valuable with the ball in their hands, and there is only one ball.

I’m sure people know by now that I am not in favor of a Simmons trade, at the trade prices often listed here. However, I could get on board if DLo went out, because it reduces a few of the major problems I see the Wolves facing in the future.

It creates a massive hole at PG, Simmons only has appeal because we have Russell on a big contract in that position. If it is a matter of moving on from Russell I would prefer to just shed the salary and not have either contract and start with Towns and Edwards.

[IceManBK1]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

We could use him. Layman+2nd?

[SO_MONEY]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

We could use him. Layman+2nd?

I would prefer not to waste a 2nd on a reserve rental.

[Klomp]

What I would like to see (as someone rooting for TWolves in this scenario) is a trade built around a Simmons/Dlo swap.

I think adding a Wolves first rounder to the package makes it fair*. By fair here I mean market price. Wolves would come out way ahead on this trade I think, but for the Sixers they are going to eventually have to answer the question "do we want to hold this max contract slot that will let us acquire a different player later? or do we want to lose it and have the cap rules prevent us from getting it back?". It was the same issue GS faced when they took on DLo's contract from the Nets.

I don't think anyone else is going to give anything better for Simmons than DLo + a first, and Minny is the team I could see him really thriving on. The Beverley signing means you have a PG, and also one who plays defense. He and Simmons could really breathe some life into that end of the floor and that can make it so much easier to motivate other players.

I'm more willing to do this than I was a month ago, and it's largely because of the Beverley addition. I still am somewhat hesitant, but not totally unwilling.

[life_saver]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

We could use him. Layman+2nd?

why would you offer a 2nd for DAJ? He is washed

[Domejandro]

It creates a massive hole at PG, Simmons only has appeal because we have Russell on a big contract in that position. If it is a matter of moving on from Russell I would prefer to just shed the salary and not have either contract and start with Towns and Edwards.

Patrick Beverly is a fringe starter, Jordan McLaughlin is a mediocre backup, and Ben Simmons (whether you agree with it or not) is a player who has made the All-Star team multiple times playing Point-Guard. There really isn't a hole at Point-Guard at all, if you swap D'Angelo Russell with Ben Simmons.

[SO_MONEY]

It creates a massive hole at PG, Simmons only has appeal because we have Russell on a big contract in that position. If it is a matter of moving on from Russell I would prefer to just shed the salary and not have either contract and start with Towns and Edwards.

Patrick Beverly is a fringe starter, Jordan McLaughlin is a mediocre backup, and Ben Simmons (whether you agree with it or not) is a player who has made the All-Star team multiple times playing Point-Guard. There really isn't a hole at Point-Guard at all, if you swap D'Angelo Russell with Ben Simmons.

Simmons isn't a PG, Beverly is 33, Jmac is so unexceptionable we don't even know if we will sign him. I stand by what I said, if we move Russell you do it to get out of his contract, not into Simmons'.

[thinktank]

You can’t say Simmons isn’t a PG.

If a team wants to use him as one, then he’s a PG. Period.

[jpatrick]

It creates a massive hole at PG, Simmons only has appeal because we have Russell on a big contract in that position. If it is a matter of moving on from Russell I would prefer to just shed the salary and not have either contract and start with Towns and Edwards.

Patrick Beverly is a fringe starter, Jordan McLaughlin is a mediocre backup, and Ben Simmons (whether you agree with it or not) is a player who has made the All-Star team multiple times playing Point-Guard. There really isn't a hole at Point-Guard at all, if you swap D'Angelo Russell with Ben Simmons.

I feel like you haven’t watched Simmons. He really doesn’t/can’t play PG in the half court. He can facilitate a little, but his man sags 15 feet off of him making even a simple pick and roll or post entry impossible or at least difficult.

That said, I’m 100% in favor of Simmons. He’s a stud. Flawed but every player outside of a couple are flawed. I’d prefer to keep McDaniels and DLo and give up all the picks/swaps. But if DLo had to go and we pulled back some draft assets, I’d do it. I don’t think Rosas will put DLo on the table though.

[SO_MONEY]

You can’t say Simmons isn’t a PG.

If a team wants to use him as one, then he’s a PG. Period.

Several people have leaked that interested teams want him at PF not PG, I think his days as a PG are over. Teams probably want him in more of a Randle role, where you should get more out of him.

[shrink]

I want to revisit Larry Nance, and his name has come up again recently. CLE continues to try to trade him, and according to the Athletic, is willing to take on salary this year to rid themselves of Nance’s money next year ($10.7, $9.7). Moving the money next year is a big deal with the contract they gave to Jarrett Allen. Moreover, CLE has fully embraced the rebuild, and they will be giving big man minutes to Mobley and Allen, and Kevin Love is probably immovable. Finally, he has always been a good soldier for CLE, so I hope they swould be looking to find him a place where he can get big minutes and continue to advance his career. MIN is a perfect fit, and one of the few teams remaining that doesn’t have a PF locked in place.

The three most straightforward options I can see for a Nance trade are:

1. Patrick Beverley ($14.3) for Nance ($10.7, $9.7) + $3.6 mil TPE.

2. Josh Okogie ($4.1) + Jake Layman ($3.9) for Nance (uses $2.7 of our space under the lux)

3. Okogie, Layman + Jaylen Nowell ($1.8) for Nance + 2nd.

Cleveland is reportedly looking for wing help, but finding those expirings is very important, and we have those. We can certainly use a good, defensive-minded PF to help KAT underneath. He’s smaller at 6’ 7”, but he is a good rebounder and a decent threat from the three point line. I don’t mind his salary either.

[winforlose]

I want to revisit Larry Nance, and his name has come up again recently. CLE continues to try to trade him, and according to the Athletic, is willing to take on salary this year to rid themselves of Nance’s money next year ($10.7, $9.7). Moving the money next year is a big deal with the contract they gave to Jarrett Allen. Moreover, CLE has fully embraced the rebuild, and they will be giving big man minutes to Mobley and Allen, and Kevin Love is probably immovable. Finally, he has always been a good soldier for CLE, so I hope they swould be looking to find him a place where he can get big minutes and continue to advance his career. MIN is a perfect fit, and one of the few teams remaining that doesn’t have a PF locked in place.

The three most straightforward options I can see for a Nance trade are:

1. Patrick Beverley ($14.3) for Nance ($10.7, $9.7) + $3.6 mil TPE.

2. Josh Okogie ($4.1) + Jake Layman ($3.9) for Nance (uses $2.7 of our space under the lux)

3. Okogie, Layman + Jaylen Nowell ($1.8) for Nance + 2nd.

Cleveland is reportedly looking for wing help, but finding those expirings is very important, and we have those. We can certainly use a good, defensive-minded PF to help KAT underneath. He’s smaller at 6’ 7”, but he is a good rebounder and a decent threat from the three point line. I don’t mind his salary either.

I think the easier path is a 3 way with Memphis. I think we also need to ask if we are willing to go into the tax. Given the number of teams already there if we are not willing that says a lot about our future.

[winforlose]

So this seems unlikely but I just thought I would toss this out there, any word on Obi toppin being available for trades. On the one hand he just had a great offseason and Thibs is more likely give him more time now that he is not a rookie. On the other hand, they have Randall and Toppin barley played last season. If a package of Okogie and V8 plus a protected first would do it I would be all for it.

[SO_MONEY]

So this seems unlikely but I just thought I would toss this out there, any word on Obi toppin being available for trades. On the one hand he just had a great offseason and Thibs is more likely give him more time now that he is not a rookie. On the other hand, they have Randall and Toppin barley played last season. If a package of Okogie and V8 plus a protected first would do it I would be all for it.

I don't see the upside in the areas we need, I think he will be a problematic defender and failed in the area he was supposed to be NBA ready, given his age I would rather have Vando and giving a pick feels like a hefty overpay.

[VeritasTri]

I feel like you haven’t watched Simmons. He really doesn’t/can’t play PG in the half court. He can facilitate a little, but his man sags 15 feet off of him making even a simple pick and roll or post entry impossible or at least difficult.

That said, I’m 100% in favor of Simmons. He’s a stud. Flawed but every player outside of a couple are flawed. I’d prefer to keep McDaniels and DLo and give up all the picks/swaps. But if DLo had to go and we pulled back some draft assets, I’d do it. I don’t think Rosas will put DLo on the table though.

You can get away with sagging off of guards who cant finish, you cant get away with sagging off of bigs who can drive, pass, and finish. If a team tried to defend Simmons that way on the wolves we would just space everybody else out and Simmons would live at the rim and ft line and foul guys out. Simmons is in that Giannis/Harden tier at drawing fouls, this is primarily because most bigs cant guard him off the bounce. Give him a running start with no help defenders and you ride that and laugh until they correct their mistake.

Just play off Giannis, he cant shoot! We saw how that worked out for teams. Imagine if he had a guy like Towns shooting 40% from 3 plus the ability to put it on the floor instead of a guy like Lopez shooting 33% with no functional perimeter skills. Towns unique abilities for his size goes together with Simmons unique abilities for his size like chocolate and peanut butter. Their skills and the dynamic it could create is one of the primary reasons I am all on board for a Simmons deal. No team gets more out of Simmons than us, no team has pieces better suited to work with Simmons unique abilities. Best perimeter 5 in the game? Check. Guys who can catch and shoot? Check. Perimeter guy(s) who can create their own shot and be go to guys in late game situations? Check. All of Simmons weaknesses are compensated by other guys strengths, and Simmons strengths cover the other guys weaknesses.

[SO_MONEY]

I feel like you haven’t watched Simmons. He really doesn’t/can’t play PG in the half court. He can facilitate a little, but his man sags 15 feet off of him making even a simple pick and roll or post entry impossible or at least difficult.

That said, I’m 100% in favor of Simmons. He’s a stud. Flawed but every player outside of a couple are flawed. I’d prefer to keep McDaniels and DLo and give up all the picks/swaps. But if DLo had to go and we pulled back some draft assets, I’d do it. I don’t think Rosas will put DLo on the table though.

You can get away with sagging off of guards who cant finish, you cant get away with sagging off of bigs who can drive, pass, and finish. If a team tried to defend Simmons that way on the wolves we would just space everybody else out and Simmons would live at the rim and ft line and foul guys out. Simmons is in that Giannis/Harden tier at drawing fouls, this is primarily because most bigs cant guard him off the bounce. Give him a running start with no help defenders and you ride that and laugh until they correct their mistake.

Just play off Giannis, he cant shoot! We saw how that worked out for teams. Imagine if he had a guy like Towns shooting 40% from 3 plus the ability to put it on the floor instead of a guy like Lopez shooting 33% with no functional perimeter skills.

What?

[Krapinsky]

You can’t say Simmons isn’t a PG.

If a team wants to use him as one, then he’s a PG. Period.

I would argue Simmons is probably one of the most “pure” traditional point guards in the NBA. A throw back if you will to the days of Stockton, Mark Jackson, and Price. He’s a table setter, controls the tempo, pace and offense. If he was 6’2”, there would be no question: point guard.

Thus, while I would like to vehemently disagree with So Money here too, frankly it’s a label that really doesn’t mean much in today’s NBA. Is Lebron a point guard? No, but the offense essentially runs though him. Simmons is the same. He just provides the versatility of being able to guard 1-4.

And I would ask, if Simmons isn’t a point guard then where does it end? Is Rubio not a point guard? He plays a similar style to Simmons, only much less effective. What about Rajon Rondo? Was he a point guard?

[VeritasTri]

What?

You could make this exact post every time and it would be an improvement over what you currently contribute while accurately displaying your understanding. Maybe add "durrrrrrrrrrrrrr" and a drool emoji.

[Krapinsky]

Including Russell in a Simmons swap has many pluses:

1. Salary - Adding Simmons without trading Russell leaves us with three max deal players, which would be hard to build around, especially in MIN who isn’t getting free agents to come here at a discount. Rosas is aware of the problem too, because when he traded for Russell, he made sure he included Wiggins, rather than a Covington trade that GSW would have done more cheaply.

2. Friendship. People make a big deal of KAT’s friendship with Russell, but KAT is also good friends with Simmons too. So much so, that after the brawl with Embiid, he allegedly called the NBA front office to ask that Simmons didn’t get suspended. Russell is regularly listed as one of the ten worst contracts in the NBA. Swapping him for Simmons, a more talented KAT friend, may be one way that Rosas could get him off the roster. As you recall, at the beginning of this, Rosas said the two players off the table in a Simmons trade were KAT and Edwards. When people grilled him about omitting DLO, he later added him, but there is obviously a big distinction here on who we would trade.

3. Where does Russell rank among PGs? I imagine he is not in the Top 20, because the position right now is so packed with talent. In fact, considering vets and young players, the marginal cost to replace Russell at PG is much smaller than replacing a wing, or a Simmons. Ironically, PHI is one of the few teams in the league that would put some value on Russell, because his strong points are things they need, and his weaknesses are things that that team has covered. Our team is the opposite - we need more defense, we have lots of scoring already and a center that shoots three’s. Both Simmons and DLo are more valuable with the ball in their hands, and there is only one ball.

I’m sure people know by now that I am not in favor of a Simmons trade, at the trade prices often listed here. However, I could get on board if DLo went out, because it reduces a few of the major problems I see the Wolves facing in the future.

All good points. I would add that Edward’s scoring/shot creating ability is largely what makes D-Lo expendable. If it wasn’t for Edwards, we’d probably be hurting in end of game possessions without D-Lo’s shot creating ability.