The Tim Connelly Thread (prev./still Fire Him)

[thinktank]

So you are telling me Wolves fans should not expect Glen Taylor to spend the 2nd highest payroll in the NBA if that is what the team needs to compete for the championship? I can't even consider you a Wolves fan at this point. Meanwhile Shrink when ARod and Lore are rumored to cut spending... "these aren't serious owners." So you argue others are entitled and bitching to demand owners spend money, but when you do it you aren't bitching. You either look out of touch or as just a wild hypocrite.

You realize that ARod and Lore proposed taking MIN not under the second apron, not under the first apron, but under the lux?

This is removing the $95 mil that Taylor spent, which YOU claim to believe good owners are SUPPOSED to spend that much.

If ARod and Lore tell other owners and their lenders that they will pay $180 mil, you’re ok with that, but if Taylor takes his $300 mil down to $295, he’s your bad guy? You just equivocating $5 mil less with $120 mil less, because they are both “less.” Yikes.

Learn the amounts, because they matter. They trump your blind emotionalism, and could help you be a more legitimate poster.

I cannot believe you’re still taking a “projection” out of context when KAT was traded under Taylor’s ownership.

That is a straight up ridiculous position to take.

[Klomp]

Ultimately, I think the decision came down to a belief that the best way to construct a roster going forward is with one crazy-high contract and a boatload of guys making around $20-30 million. People keep getting stuck on Randle but the trade wasn't about Randle. It wasn't about Towns. It was about building the most complete team around Anthony Edwards.

That's why Boston has been able to build a super-team over the previous few seasons. Everyone was in that $20-30 million range. Brown is the first to get to a major deal. Next year, Tatum will join him. I bet we'll see money-related trades coming from them in the next few years.

[Klomp]

Ultimately, I think the decision came down to a belief that the best way to construct a roster going forward is with one crazy-high contract and a boatload of guys making around $20-30 million. People keep getting stuck on Randle but the trade wasn't about Randle. It wasn't about Towns. It was about building the most complete team around Anthony Edwards.

To add more on this point...

Without this trade, I do agree that we would be in a really nice place right now. I don't know if we'd be as good as OKC, but I think we'd probably be in that tier with Houston and Memphis because of our roster's consistency year over year. However, I don't know if I'd feel confident about our chances in the postseason, because we would have the same questions as last year. And along with that, there'd be an uneasy feeling because of the extremely high unlikelihood that either Naz or NAW would be back next season. We already lost Anderson this summer due to cap constraints, so losing another two rotation pieces would be a killer. It would put a lot of pressure on both Ant and KAT, as well as pressure on the young guys like Rob, Josh and Leonard to either sink or swim. And if they sunk, there would be nowhere to go from there.

That's why I keep coming back to the point that this trade was not about any one player we acquired or traded away. It was about roster construction as a whole, both in 2024-25 and over the next few seasons. Right now, while we may have taken a slight step back, we are in a position where we are not forced to take a major step back as a team.

[Baseline81]

I cannot believe you’re still taking a “projection” out of context when KAT was traded under Taylor’s ownership.

That is a straight up ridiculous position to take.

It's beyond comical at this point.

He and Klomp triumphing anything/everything the Wolves have done/are doing is vomit inducing.

[Klomp]

I cannot believe you’re still taking a “projection” out of context when KAT was traded under Taylor’s ownership.

That is a straight up ridiculous position to take.

It's beyond comical at this point.

He and Klomp triumphing anything/everything the Wolves have done/are doing is vomit inducing.

Don't think that's an accurate assessment....but of course you also know that it isn't.

I don't triumph everything. I simply take the time to rationally understand why a move is made. What's done is done. Whining on an internet message board accomplishes nothing to change it, so I choose to instead look for patterns of what management might be thinking and where they could go from there.

The second apron is a real thing. The richest owner in the sport has made "cost-cutting" moves. Why wouldn't it make sense for one of the most money-poor ownership groups to do the same? Every front office is facing situations like this. Acting like it doesn't exist in the name of championships is futile and short-sighted.

[Baseline81]

Don't think that's an accurate assessment....but of course you also know that it isn't.

I don't triumph everything. I simply take the time to rationally understand why a move is made. What's done is done. Whining on an internet message board accomplishes nothing to change it, so I choose to instead look for patterns of what management might be thinking and where they could go from there.

The second apron is a real thing. The richest owner in the sport has made "cost-cutting" moves. Why wouldn't it make sense for one of the most money-poor ownership groups to do the same? Every front office is facing situations like this. Acting like it doesn't exist in the name of championships is futile and short-sighted.

I don't know... oh, maybe it's because the team reached the Western Conference Finals for the second time in its history?

But no, you're right, Klomp, as usual, let's continue to look at this not as a sport where the goal is to win a championship but rather the finances of billionaires.

[Klomp]

Don't think that's an accurate assessment....but of course you also know that it isn't.

I don't triumph everything. I simply take the time to rationally understand why a move is made. What's done is done. Whining on an internet message board accomplishes nothing to change it, so I choose to instead look for patterns of what management might be thinking and where they could go from there.

The second apron is a real thing. The richest owner in the sport has made "cost-cutting" moves. Why wouldn't it make sense for one of the most money-poor ownership groups to do the same? Every front office is facing situations like this. Acting like it doesn't exist in the name of championships is futile and short-sighted.

I don't know... oh, maybe it's because the team reached the Western Conference Finals for the second time in its history?

But no, you're right, Klomp, as usual, let's continue to look at this not as a sport where the goal is to win a championship but rather the finances of billionaires.

The second apron directly affects the ability to build a championship team. This isn't baseball, where you can just buy a championship like the Dodgers. You will pay a hefty price, not only in billionaires' wallets but also in the on-court product. And Minnesota showed true flaws last year in the playoffs, despite the very good regular season. Standing pat probably would have resulted in a great regular season this year, but with no guarantees of playoff success. And it would have likely been a one-off, as both Reid and Alexander-Walker would understand there was little chances of re-signing at the end of the season. Then what?

[minimus]

IMO Kyle Anderson trade was as much devastating from chemistry point as Towns trade. McLaughlin loss hurts as well. But. It is clear that all of them have exceeded expectations in MIN, but failed to overachieve elsewhere. Beverley, Beasley, Vando, DLo, Anderson, McLaughlin, Morris career paths is pretty good assessment of TC as talent evaluator.

[Klomp]

IMO Kyle Anderson trade was as much devastating from chemistry point as Towns trade. McLaughlin loss hurts as well. But. It is clear that all of them have exceeded expectations in MIN, but failed to overachieve elsewhere. Beverley, Beasley, Vando, DLo, Anderson, McLaughlin, Morris career paths is pretty good assessment of TC as talent evaluator.

Minnesota has very much been a "sum of its parts is greater than the whole" under Connelly and Finch.

Guys come in and out, but yet the system still works. It's why they can absorb the loss of someone like Towns. And yes, he's looked great in New York. But it's also partly boosted because he's in the Eastern Conference now.

[Baseline81]

The second apron directly affects the ability to build a championship team. This isn't baseball, where you can just buy a championship like the Dodgers. You will pay a hefty price, not only in billionaires' wallets but also in the on-court product. And Minnesota showed true flaws last year in the playoffs, despite the very good regular season. Standing pat probably would have resulted in a great regular season this year, but with no guarantees of playoff success. And it would have likely been a one-off, as both Reid and Alexander-Walker would understand there was little chances of re-signing at the end of the season. Then what?

As a result of trading Towns, are the Wolves a second apron team this season? I believe the answer is yes. And therefore, IMO, having Towns rather than Randle and DDV, would have been better for the success of this season, which is what I care about. And it was the exact reasoning given to me when the trade for Rudy took place. Only worry about today and not the future picks.

Reading the rest of your paragraph, it appears you agree, at least in regards to the regular season. There is never a guarantee about playoffs, which makes last year's push far more rewarding. To throw that away for FUTURE years is my issue.

As to Reid and NAW, who knows. You keep talking in what ifs and maybes that I'll throw it back at you. What if Minott or the rookies improve immensely from this season...

[Klomp]

The second apron directly affects the ability to build a championship team. This isn't baseball, where you can just buy a championship like the Dodgers. You will pay a hefty price, not only in billionaires' wallets but also in the on-court product. And Minnesota showed true flaws last year in the playoffs, despite the very good regular season. Standing pat probably would have resulted in a great regular season this year, but with no guarantees of playoff success. And it would have likely been a one-off, as both Reid and Alexander-Walker would understand there was little chances of re-signing at the end of the season. Then what?

As a result of trading Towns, are the Wolves a second apron team this season? I believe the answer is yes. And therefore, IMO, having Towns rather than Randle and DDV, would have been better for the success of this season, which is what I care about. And it was the exact reasoning given to me when the trade for Rudy took place. Only worry about today and not the future picks.

Not as a result of. Regardless of the trade or not, Minnesota was a second apron team.

[Guest84]

IMO Kyle Anderson trade was as much devastating from chemistry point as Towns trade. McLaughlin loss hurts as well. But. It is clear that all of them have exceeded expectations in MIN, but failed to overachieve elsewhere. Beverley, Beasley, Vando, DLo, Anderson, McLaughlin, Morris career paths is pretty good assessment of TC as talent evaluator.

Minnesota has very much been a "sum of its parts is greater than the whole" under Connelly and Finch.

Guys come in and out, but yet the system still works. It's why they can absorb the loss of someone like Towns. And yes, he's looked great in New York. But it's also partly boosted because he's in the Eastern Conference now.

I disagree with this part. Towns best position (offensively) has always been C and he's put up these same numbers if not better in the West. The last few years, he was dealing with an ascending Ant while trying to integrate Rudy. He clearly took a bit of a back seat to help the team overall.

However, I don't necessarily disagree about the other guys you mentioned.

[Klomp]

IMO Kyle Anderson trade was as much devastating from chemistry point as Towns trade. McLaughlin loss hurts as well. But. It is clear that all of them have exceeded expectations in MIN, but failed to overachieve elsewhere. Beverley, Beasley, Vando, DLo, Anderson, McLaughlin, Morris career paths is pretty good assessment of TC as talent evaluator.

Minnesota has very much been a "sum of its parts is greater than the whole" under Connelly and Finch.

Guys come in and out, but yet the system still works. It's why they can absorb the loss of someone like Towns. And yes, he's looked great in New York. But it's also partly boosted because he's in the Eastern Conference now.

I disagree with this part. Towns best position (offensively) has always been C and he's put up these same numbers if not better in the West. The last few years, he was dealing with an ascending Ant while trying to integrate Rudy. He clearly took a bit of a back seat to help the team overall.

However, I don't necessarily disagree about the other guys you mentioned.

I didn't make my point clear enough, I guess. You are correct that Towns is better as a C. I think that's the main reason you've seen his numbers climb. I think putting him next to Gobert was good for team success, but didn't highlight Towns' full offensive arsenal.

[FrenchMinnyFan]

IMO Kyle Anderson trade was as much devastating from chemistry point as Towns trade. McLaughlin loss hurts as well. But. It is clear that all of them have exceeded expectations in MIN, but failed to overachieve elsewhere. Beverley, Beasley, Vando, DLo, Anderson, McLaughlin, Morris career paths is pretty good assessment of TC as talent evaluator.

Minnesota has very much been a "sum of its parts is greater than the whole" under Connelly and Finch.

Guys come in and out, but yet the system still works. It's why they can absorb the loss of someone like Towns. And yes, he's looked great in New York. But it's also partly boosted because he's in the Eastern Conference now.

You make a point. KAT lok great for 2 reasons :
- Weaker conference
- Play at 5.

Still not a guarantee he will not struggle in PO.

[winforlose]

Let’s use the imaginary way back machine to go back to the start of free agency. Imagine if instead of Dozier we offered Tyus starting PG and moved Mike to the bench. Imagine if instead of Jingles we pursued a backup C (C2) in case we made a KAT trade. Then instead of Garza we kept a roster spot open and used Miller as C3. Now you have the freedom to sign a Paul Reed to round out the roster or better yet keep KBD as good depth. Imagine:


PG: Tyus/Mike/Dilly
SG: Ant/DDV/TSJ
SF: Jaden/NAW/TSJ
PF: Randle/Naz/KBD (I would flip Naz to starter,)
C: Rudy, backup C, Miller.

Then when Minott shows up in the preseason you might trade or cut KBD as the season progresses. Am I wrong?

[TimberKat]

Let’s use the imaginary way back machine to go back to the start of free agency. Imagine if instead of Dozier we offered Tyus starting PG and moved Mike to the bench. Imagine if instead of Jingles we pursued a backup C (C2) in case we made a KAT trade. Then instead of Garza we kept a roster spot open and used Miller as C3. Now you have the freedom to sign a Paul Reed to round out the roster or better yet keep KBD as good depth. Imagine:


PG: Tyus/Mike/Dilly
SG: Ant/DDV/TSJ
SF: Jaden/NAW/TSJ
PF: Randle/Naz/KBD (I would flip Naz to starter,)
C: Rudy, backup C, Miller.

Then when Minott shows up in the preseason you might trade or cut KBD as the season progresses. Am I wrong?

I would much rather imagine we sign Tyus - the end until season starts, no Jingle for Christmas.

[shrink]

Towns is leading the NBA in rebounding. I think people forgot how good a rebounder he is when he plays center. He had four straight years at the start of his career where he was in the top 3-5 in total rebounds. Missing games and playing away from the basket hurt those numbers in later years.

When Towns plays center, he is a match up nightmare. Opposing centers are too slow to guard him, especially his three point shooting, and opposing PF’s often don’t have the size if KAT’s head is on straight that night for his post game. He has every offensive skill. However, if you play KAT at center, it really drags down the defense because he’s so bad at defending the rim, and that’s what you need your big center to do. I’m not saying what people don’t know - Towns hates to stay under the basket, comes out, and blows up his team’s defense.

I really hope KAT plays well here Thursday, and I hope MIN fans give him the credit that many withheld for years. However, I think KAT won’t be able to stop the Conley-Gobert pick-and-roll at all, so he better score 35 on the offensive side to make up for it.

[Klomp]

I really hope KAT plays well here Thursday, and I hope MIN fans give him the credit that many withheld for years. However, I think KAT won’t be able to stop the Conley-Gobert pick-and-roll at all, so he better score 35 on the offensive side to make up for it.

You know he's going to try to take it to Gobert! All I can say is good luck with that!

[minimus]

IMO Kyle Anderson trade was as much devastating from chemistry point as Towns trade. McLaughlin loss hurts as well. But. It is clear that all of them have exceeded expectations in MIN, but failed to overachieve elsewhere. Beverley, Beasley, Vando, DLo, Anderson, McLaughlin, Morris career paths is pretty good assessment of TC as talent evaluator.

I forgot Taurean Prince.

[FrenchMinnyFan]

Will be an interesting match-up. Rudy will definitely make his life difficult under the rim. Knicks improve with KAT definitely and their defense is not that bad. For ne this game is a real test to show our level.