Ban Howard Mass: The new draft thread

[deeney0]

Sure, on offense. And he'll get absolutely punished on defense - sure, he'll provide some weak side help as an illusion of good D, but he'll get eaten alive by his own man. See: Thomas, Tyrus.

[Worm Guts]

Sure, on offense. And he'll get absolutely punished on defense - sure, he'll provide some weak side help as an illusion of good D, but he'll get eaten alive by his own man. See: Thomas, Tyrus.

He'll need to add weight and he probably will, just like Bosh and KG did.

[horaceworthy]

As a SF prospect, gimme Joe Alexander. He's strong, quick, a leader, and has the reputation for an absolutely outstanding work ethic. He doesn't quite have the range on his shot yet, but I can see him quickly becoming what we've seen from Mike Dunleavy this year, only with much better defense.

No offense, but that comparison somewhat smacks of the "You're only allowed to compare white guys to white guys" theory. Dunleavy's got enough of a handle to play some point forward, that's an area Alexander still needs to work on. His game's also been reliant on the 3 point shot for awhile, another area Alexander could use improvement. I'd say his style of play resembles 'Melo more. He's not as strong as 'Melo, but like the Denver star, Alexander mainly uses his mid-range game, footwork, and good first step to get his points. I don't think he'll be as good as 'Melo, but that's more the style of play I see from him than Dunleavy.

[revprodeji]

Sweet...lot to reply here.

I think the "phenomenon" has something more to do with Garnett/Bosh/Dirk than it has to do with Lewis/Odom/Harrington.
Remember when Garnett was drafted? He was a SF/PF.
Skinny? Randolph is 6'11 220 lbs according to draft express. He doesn't turn 19 until July! He could still grow to 7'0. By age 20 (he could easily weigh 250.
In comparison Garnett was 6'11 217lbs when drafted as an 18 year old out of high school.
Bosh was 6'10 and 210 lbs when drafted after his Freshman year out of Georgia Tech.
Randolph is 6'11 220 and only 18 years old. He averaged 15pts 8 rbs and 2+ blocks as a freshman. Those numbers are nearly identical to Bosh's 15/9/2.

exactly, Randolph projects as a shot-blocking uber athletic 4. Not a tweener 3. The fact that the kid has grown (6'10 to 6'11 and 200 to 220) is also hopefull as well. The kid also has very good playmaking ability and ballhandling so he could play the 3, but those skills would work great as a high post option next to Al. Personally, I think he fits the best next to Al, but also has just as much potential as Rose and Beasley

I don't understand the sudden Randolph gushing at all. He's ridiculously skinny, he's not a three point shooter, the last "athletic freak/next big thing" to come out of LSU isn't exactly wowing it up in Chicago.
As a big man prospect, give me Jordan. Better height, better wing span, better body to put muscle on (and already further along in that respect).

As stated above, Randolph projects as a 4, not a 3. He is bigger than TT, has more skill than TT and nobody questions his mental make up or desire to get better ala TT. From what I read a "more athletic, defensive minded LMA" is a better example than TT. Get past the college bias TT is not SHaq. Randolph was doing "miles things" in high school. Now he has grown enough to be a 4.

Reading DX's profile on Randolph nothing stands out for me as someone I would want to pick in the top 5.A fundamentally unsound,selfish,defensively challenged project combo forward isn't high on my list of needs.

If you are going to gamble on someone you might as well go with the higher upside guys like Jordan or Thabeet where at least the reward is worth the risk.

Randolph is the better player now, and will be the better player in the future than Jordan or Thabust. His fundamentals are fine, they just need polish (he is an 18/19 kid) he is not selfish. He is not defensively challenged. He is far from a project also. Personally, I do not consider him a gamble. His floor is probably a shot blocking 6'11 guy who simply runs the floor for easy points. His ceiling is a chris bosh type. He also does not lack the hands(thabust) or desire (Jordan) to be a better player.

I think Rose is the best player in the draft and really the only guy who has a chance to become a true superstar. Beasley may become a 20/10 guy, but I don't see him as a great defensive player or someone who makes his teammates that much better (and I really don't like the fit on the Wolves).

To me Rose has a chance to become Jason Kidd but a better athlete. He truely is the best athlete I've ever seen as a PG. He's a true PG, makes his teammate better, amazing hands (steals) and is content with wins as opposed to stats. With him pushing the ball, Brewer would have someone to run with and all of a sudden he gets some easy baskets and that shooting percentage goes from 35 to 44 and we don't feel so bad about our defensive wing.

I think Rose's numbers are stunted somewhat by playing on Memphis. That team has a motion offense, so the ball doesn't stay in Rose's hands all that much. You put him on K-State as the main guy and I bet he's putting up 20pts and 6 assists a game.

I admit that Foye has looked ok as a PG but I think he's a true combo guard who's best served swinging back and forth from 1 to 2. Rose, Foye and McCants is a nice three guard lineup to build around (I'm not a big Bassy fan and we will not keep all of our RFAs).

That's my case for Rose over Beasley or anyone else, but as long as we stay in the top five and come away with Rose, Beasley, Lopez, Mayo and maybe Randolph (only seen him play twice, but I like him, just don't have a comfort with him because I haven't seen him enough).

Good points, but I have a couple also.

1.) I agree on Beasley, I have had a love/hate with him all year. Sometimes I doubt he will produce on the NBA level more than a decent starter. Other times I get uber excited for him. I cannot decide.

2.) Antonio Daniels had many of the same pre-draft comments about athletic ability and such as Rose. Fact of the matter is athletic ability at the pg is about as useless as vertical leap for an offensive lineman. Pg is mental. I think ROse has some of that mental, but not at the paul level. I think Foye has some of that mental and athletically he is very good. I just do not see ROse being the demi-god people make him out to be.

3.) Brewer's shooting % will improve with his own development. FOye pushes the ball, Bassy pushed the ball. Brewer still missed. Foye would have many, many more assists right now if Jaric would make his jumpers. The bigger team need is a big to put next to Al. To rebound and start those fast breaks.

4.) Memphis did have a motion offense, but they also played much more up tempo and fluid than many NBA teams, which hid one of the biggest concerns for Rose which is his ability to properly direct a half court offense.

5.) Foye has flirted with a triple double many of his games as a pg. He would have got it to if Jaric could make a bloody jumper. He has looked more than OK. I agree that he can play the 1 and 2 but that does not mean he has to. Personally, if we draft a frontline person and have a 3 guard rotation of Foye/Shad/bassy(or vet FA if Bassy leaves) I will be happy.

6.) I agree with your last point. If we come away with Beasley/rose/mayo/lopez/randolph we will improve. Personally, I just see Randolph as something special that also fills a serious need.

(For the Wolves)

I'd hate to pass on Rose and make a mistake like the Hawks have continued to make over the years. Rose could be a Deron Williams/Chris Paul level of a difference maker for a team. Lopez might be a Bogut level type difference maker. (i'm not making player comparisons based on attributes, but only comparing what I see as each player's potential for long term impact)

Problem with the Hawks is they lacked any pg. We have Foye who is looking like a very, very good young pg. We also have a serious frontcourt need that should not be ignored. If anything we will be hawk-like by drafting another guard when we need some size. I have seen nothing from Rose to make me think he has the mental make up of a Paul or Williams. of course, both of those prospects took 2 or 3 years in college to learn that and likely Rose will take the same thing on the bench in the nBA.

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I agree that Beasley and Lopez would fill a bigger need than Rose. We really need to find another big man down low. Randolph and Gallinari on the other hand, don't really fill any needs since we already have Gomes, Brewer, and even Jaric who on occasion can play the 3. At this point we still don't know whether or not Foye is a true point guard. I'm not ready to give up on him yet, but if we get a chance at Rose I hope we take him.

Randolph is a 4, and Gallinari is a 3/4. Offensively Gallinari could be the most gifted prospect in the draft with the most experience. He is better than Bargnani and would be a scary good player. The Gallinari over Gomes./jaric is an easier argument to make than Rose over Foye. Defense is a concern for Gallinari which is why he is not the top prospect. Otherwise he simply would be.

Rose has as much physical gifts as Randolph and he's a lot more developed. Rose is a lot more physically gifted for his position than Galinari or Lopez.
Rose has superstar potential and a reasonable chance of reaching that potential.

I would argue a growing Randolph could be seen as having similar physical gifts and is at a position designed to use those gifts. Athletic ability matters when you are blocking a shot, getting a rebound and running the floor. It does not matter when you are reading a defense, threading a pass and processing multiple movements at the same time (signed Steve Nash, John Stockton)

Sure, on offense. And he'll get absolutely punished on defense - sure, he'll provide some weak side help as an illusion of good D, but he'll get eaten alive by his own man. See: Thomas, Tyrus.

TT's problem is the neck up. Randolph is bigger and tries. I could see him at least being as effective as Noah.

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The reason people like Randolph over Jordan is because he actually produced as a freshman. Even as PF I'd think he'd work fine with Al. He's athletic enough to provide weakside help or stay with Chris Bosh type power forwards and he has a jumper which can clear out the middle for Al to operate.

exactly. His passing is impressive also. Good post.

Yeah, and even KG ended up at PF. I don't see Randolph (or Greene) at SF long term. So if we're talking about big men to pair with Al, I'll take the super athletic, super long 7'0 260 DeAndre Jordan over the super athletic, super long 6'11 220 Randolph if we're just talking about measureables - and don't fall in love with measureables, which is all I've gotten about Randolph so far.

And Bosh led the ACC in FG% as a freshman. Randolph is pedestrian (at least for a big man) 46%. If the Wolves go for a big man shooting that low a percentage, I hope it's Lopez.

If all you have gotten from Randolph is measureables then you need to study him more. That is the only thing appealing about Jordan, but Randolph is much more. The FG% does not come close to speaking about Randolph's game

You sort of underestimate the combo of size\athleticism that this kid has here. Regardless of who we draft the only players in this draft who will have a solid year are lopez + Beasly. Every other player will probably spend at least 1-3 years sucking or borderline sucking every other game..

If I was gonna pick a player to compliment Al. I'd have to go with a bigger\quick multifaceted defender who can run the floor a bit and block some shots. I'm thinking guys like AK47 or Josh Smith. Randolph is capable of being this type of player in his first season, then theres the whole other aspect that he could develop into much more. Defensively if he gains some size\strength he could be off the charts in what he brings to a team.

As for the 6'10+ SF Phenomenon there was one SF years back who made it work pretty well w/o shooting 3's. You know that kid from Farragut Academy. Similar frame and athletic profile when coming into the league. Not to compare him to KG but lets be real no prospect is a sure thing, but when you look at what he could possibly do long term and what he can offer the team immediately you have to be intrigued.

I do not want to jinx him either, but that is what I saw in him. Personally, If I need to gamble on Beasley/Rose/Randolph I take Randolph.

[Worm Guts]

I would argue a growing Randolph could be seen as having similar physical gifts and is at a position designed to use those gifts. Athletic ability matters when you are blocking a shot, getting a rebound and running the floor. It does not matter when you are reading a defense, threading a pass and processing multiple movements at the same time (signed Steve Nash, John Stockton)

Athletic ability matters when you want penetrate or play defense. On top of his athleticism Rose doesn't lack point guard skills at all. Don't compare him to Steve Nash or John Stockton, compare him to Gary Payton.

[revprodeji]

Gary Payton was a defensive hound back before the no-touch defensive rules. I like Payton, I always have, but I do not see the same defensive ability or instinct from Rose as I do from Payton.

Not saying I do not think he is a top-5 prospect. Just I do not think he is the baby Jesus people say he is.

[Worm Guts]

He's not the baby Jesus, just the 2nd best prospect in the draft. That's all.

[Krapinsky]

nbadraft.net just updated its mock. Some interesting things...

Randolph dropped to 18

Robin Lopez is in at 20

Blake Griffin rose to 6 (in this years mock)

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[TheProdigy]

I won't comment on any of Randolph's specific skills because I haven't seen him play yet. Rev, you seem to know what's up with the kid. Where can I find some game footage? There's nothing on Youtube.

I'll play devil's advocate here... People are saying that Randolph is producing as a freshman. Yes, he's producing on a team that went 13-18. Now consider the fact that Derrick Rose is a freshman producing at the most difficult position to learn. And he's doing it for a #1 seeded team. Can you imagine what kind of numbers he would be putting up if he played for LSU?

When it comes to making a comparison for Rose, it's very difficult. Most point guards don't really do much their freshman year. Chris Paul is the exception, and that's probably why they're compared so often. I don't think that's a fair comparison because Chris Paul is an incredible player, already the best point guard in the NBA at 22 years old. If I had to make a comparison at this point, I'd say he's Devin Harris with more upside.

Has anyone ever seen a point gaurd that can take contact and finish like this guy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi9qfKchreE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaUNqbIjR9M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6WINaj9mik

[dunkonu21]

If we draft Randolph then Al is permanently a center for his career in Minnesota, same goes for Beasley. That's not a risk I'm willing to take.

DeAndre Jordan's stock will rise when the draft camps happen. I don't put as much stake into his lack of productivity in the NCAAs, because his situation was a true tragedy. He is young and it would be hard for even veteran players to adjust to what happened to him. Instead of people giving him Fs they should be giving him I for incomplete.

[Krapinsky]

One thing to keep an eye on may be NJ's draft position. As of now they own two picks, their's @ 11 and Dallas' @ 21.

They could be a good trading partner if we wanted to trade down. Based on the mock at 11 we could get Randolph/Jordan/Collison/Greene/Thabeet

At 21 we could get Speights/Hibbert/Tyler Smith

I would surely trade anyone outside of Beas/Rose for a crop of two of those players. A Randolph/Hibbert draft would be amazing. My potential dream team for next year. . .

Hibbert (20*)/Al (28)/Richard
Al (12)/Gomes (18)/Randolph (18)/Madsen/Walker
Brewer (35)/Gomes (13)/Snyder
Rashad (40)/Foye (8)/Jaric
Foye (30)/ Bassy (18)/ 2nd round shooter, i.e. Lee/Hudson (or ^)

*App. min at each position. Buckner would be bought out/traded, or Snyder would be let go.

[horaceworthy]

Dunk, if Jordan's lack of productivity had been a two game thing, then I could see where you're coming from. However, it spanned a good portion of the season. I don't want the Wolves to draft somebody just based on his measurables with this pick. It's too important to take that risk.

[revprodeji]

nbadraft.net just updated its mock. Some interesting things...

Randolph dropped to 18

Robin Lopez is in at 20

Blake Griffin rose to 6 (in this years mock)

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nbadraft.net is a joke.

If we draft Randolph then Al is permanently a center for his career in Minnesota, same goes for Beasley. That's not a risk I'm willing to take.

.

Offensively Al already plays center. (to prove this point go ahead and tell me offensively and defensively what the difference in a 4 and a 5 is.) The 4/5 we want to compliment Al should be a player with a skill set that can fit with what we need next to Al. Beasley does not do this. Beasley is better set as a 3 I fear. Randolph is a shot blocker and his length would help. He is a better defender and blocker than Jordan.

[Klomp]

If I had to make a comparison at this point, I'd say he's Devin Harris with more upside.

Has anyone ever seen a point gaurd that can take contact and finish like this guy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi9qfKchreE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaUNqbIjR9M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6WINaj9mik

Thats my comparison as well.

[the_bruce]

<3 nj swap

Also I think MN could make some moves with the 21's pick.

I'm sure PHX would at least listen to a pick swap for cash. 15th for 21st + $1m-3m? Then phx obviously sells the 21st for 3m

Regardless of all the fanciness above I'd be all about a randolph + hibbert for 3-6th pick

I wouldn't mind a gamble with the later pick for Ibaka(but I doubt he stays around that long)

[drummerrob26]

I agree I would definitely be ok with a draft of hibbert and randolph. I will say though that Hibbert is not on high up on my list of centers. In fact I would probably rather have Robin Lopez than Hibbert. I am still on here as saying a later 1st round pick of Ibaka is the way to go.

[dunkonu21]

Offensively Al already plays center. (to prove this point go ahead and tell me offensively and defensively what the difference in a 4 and a 5 is.)

I knew he played center offensively, but I have concerns about how well he could play center defensively. Guarding at the center position is mostly about rebounding and staying closer to the rim, whereas a PF has to move around a lot more. It is much easier to be out-muscled at center and that's what I'm worried about in terms of Jefferson

[revprodeji]

I have less concern about his muscle, then his ability to guard someone at the high post spot. With a quicker guy next to him Al could body the slow big and let the other guy defend the quick guy.

[TheFranchise21]

Has anyone ever seen a point gaurd that can take contact and finish like this guy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi9qfKchreE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaUNqbIjR9M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6WINaj9mik

While still impressive, it wasn't anything spectacular. I see plenty of that stuff at Lifetime Fitness.

Regardless, Rose is #1 on my draft board. I bit the apple and had Beasley #1 for like a week but Rose is back to my #1.

IMO, Rose is going to be a top 3-5 PG in the L. Beasley will only be a top 10 PF. PFs are a dime a dozen. Finding an elite PG is tougher these days.

1. Rose
2. Beasley
3. Mayo
4. Jordan
5. Lopez
6. Randolph
7. Griffin

That's my top 7 for the Wolves in terms of who I think fits best and would help us the most. If we fell to #7, I say go BPA, regardless of position.

[TheProdigy]

Im getting a membership at Lifetime Fitness.