Countdown to heartbreak (*Draft thread pt.II)

[john2jer]

Last effort, then I just give up and drink the kool-aid.

I'm acknowledging that Jennings does have talent. I think he has the chance of being a solid to good point guard. But I don't think the Wolves have the make-up to be the team best suited for him. He's a running point guard who likes to throw alley oops, quite frequently to a fault in that he loves the flashy play when the simple one will get the job done. So with that in mind, I can picture a lot of turn-overs, bad chemistry, and more losses because his strengths don't compliment the rest of the team. Now as a point guard that's important because it's his job to set-up the rest of the team. Also considering our best player is a half-court, slow it down monster, who at times takes a lot of time off the shot clock, and doesn't always do the best job of giving up the rock to open shooters or cutters. That doesn't fit with Jennings.

Jennings is also a poor outside shooter, and gambles way too much on defense, that is when he actually tries on defense. He's also itty-bitty.

The Wolves need a Kirk Hinrich-type at point guard. A big unselfish PG who plays good defense, can set-up the offense, and then find and knock down open shots. None of those things can be said about Jennings.

Yes the Wolves want a more free flowing offense, but I think that's predicated on ball movement and teamwork to create open shots for each other. When I think of what the Wolves want on offense, I think of the Kings in the early part of this decade. I think reversing the ball, skip passes, dumps, dives, and kick-outs. Not a ball pounding point guard who only gives it up when he can get an assist, and a flashy one at that.

Jennings might have more talent, but I don't see the major differences between him and Telfair.

The whole team is already small, why compound the issue? Our perimeter defense is already lacking, why compound the issue? Our outside shooting was weak last year, why compound the issue? We don't have a consistent big guard.

To me drafting Jennings at #5 makes about as much sense as drafting Blair or Ellington. We need to add size.

[PeeDee]

Dont give up, J2J. There are still some of us that don't want Jennings in a Wolves uni. Especially @ 5 or eariler. If we slipped to 8 he might be on my radar depending on who gets drafted where.

I for one am not going to change my tune because the kid seems nice in a DX interview.

[Worm Guts]

OK, I got all that and I agree with most of it. It was just the one or two points that sounded like BS. You've hashed those points out a little bit more now, but I still disagree with them. I'm not gonna push it.

[revprodeji]

J2J the only pg that looks possible like Hinrich is Holiday--and that is assuming his shot is not broke.

[john2jer]

I agree on Holiday, but my point wasn't entirely that we should be looking for a Hinrich clone. My point is that Hinrich is pretty much the perfect combination for what we need, and we should try to avoid the guy who's the anti-Hinrich. I think Evans is an excellent choice, and I'd be happy with Holiday or Maynor at #18.

Jennings is like 7th or 8th on my list, and if we're even having to consider him, that means we had a horrible night tomorrow.

Chad Ford does have a raving review of Jennings up from last week, but at the end he mentions his minutes are disappearing. Which makes little sense to me. Also, how do you throw and underhand bounce pass? Supposedly Jennings did that.

[B Calrissian]

Also, how do you throw and underhand bounce pass? Supposedly Jennings did that.

I am picturing someone bowling and tossing the ball half way down the lane.

[john2jer]

Which means one of two things...

1. The pass was thrown high in the air giving it the energy to bounce and come back up at a level the receiver could do something with it.

2. The pass was thrown, bounced, then died at the receiver's feet.

Either way, is that supposed to be a positive?

[Worm Guts]

It can be done effectively, and it looks spiffy.

[horaceworthy]

j2j, no offense, but if you're going to write off every young guard that performs better in transition for the Wolves, then you're going to severely limit your options. Even your boy Evans is far better in broken court situations than he is in the half-court (and has a reputation as far more of a ball pounder than Jennings, and he was one of the most turnover prone players in the NCAA, another knock you make on Jennings). I also still don't see what getting a bigger PG does to help with an undersized frontcourt that struggles to protect the rim. That argument strikes me as grasping at straws. The flashy stuff may or may not hold water, most of that comes from scouting reports over a year old, when Jennings was either playing in all-star games or against competition I'm guessing didn't challenge him all that much.

That's not to say he doesn't have his faults. The lack of a consistent jumper worries me (it's also another one of the weaknesses he shares with Evans), but the real problem with him seems to be a lack of information. Most of the scouting reports are either a year old or come from watching him play limited minutes while he was adjusting to life on a new continent. It's possible the international experience humbled him and he's got his nose to the grindstone now, but also possible that it's just an act.

Nobody's aking you to drink any kool-aid, just not to dismiss a prospect that was ranked #1 in the RSCI (and a near unanimous #1) as a legit option for us based on conjecture and reasons that, no offense, seem rather lame.

[john2jer]

If you can't "see what getting a bigger PG does to help with an undersized frontcourt that struggles to protect the rim", then please pass me a glass. I just ask that the glass is at least clean. Oh and no grape, I hate grape.

I give up. I'm convinced. Sliced bread has nothing on Brandon Jennings.

[horaceworthy]

PG's don't protect the rim and even the biggest ones lack the size to be decent shotblockers. I can see how adding an SF with size and shotblocking ability helps to protect the rim and balance out the frontcourt, but not a big PG. I'm curious as to why you think it would, but you seem more interested in acting like a baby.

[B Calrissian]

If a PG can keep the others teams PG out of the paint he is helping the frontcourt. J2J isn't saying he wants blocks from the PG just defense.

[big3_8_19_21]

ok, but size on the perimeter doesn't equate to keeping the opposing PG out of the paint.

[john2jer]

PG's don't protect the rim and even the biggest ones lack the size to be decent shotblockers. I can see how adding an SF with size and shotblocking ability helps to protect the rim and balance out the frontcourt, but not a big PG. I'm curious as to why you think it would, but you seem more interested in acting like a baby.

Wow, you're clueless.

If a PG can keep the others teams PG out of the paint he is helping the frontcourt. J2J isn't saying he wants blocks from the PG just defense.

Thank you. I'm just dumbfounded why people can't grasp this concept. Blocked shots don't necessarily mean good defense.

I have this big wad of cash in my house. Everyone wants the money, everyone's trying to come over and grab it. Now I could sit in my attic with the cash holding a gun all day, shooting everyone who tries to get close, or I could just lock the front door and take down the sign that says, "free money." Hmm...

[john2jer]

ok, but size on the perimeter doesn't equate to keeping the opposing PG out of the paint. If you want to keep them out of the paint, get Kirk Hinrich.

I'm a huge fan of sarcasm.

[B Calrissian]

If a PG can keep the others teams PG out of the paint he is helping the frontcourt. J2J isn't saying he wants blocks from the PG just defense.

Thank you. I'm just dumbfounded why people can't grasp this concept. Blocked shots don't necessarily mean good defense.

I blame it on Camby winning defensive player of the year a few years back.

[john2jer]

If a PG can keep the others teams PG out of the paint he is helping the frontcourt. J2J isn't saying he wants blocks from the PG just defense.

Thank you. I'm just dumbfounded why people can't grasp this concept. Blocked shots don't necessarily mean good defense.

I blame it on Camby winning defensive player of the year a few years back.

Everytime I think about that I want to rip my hair out.

To further expand and really blow people's minds that don't understand the concept. Quite often blocked shots, especially in the half-court, are due to a break down of the team defense somewhere else. So one could potentially argue that block shots = bad defense. Now obviously a blocked shot keeps the opponent from scoring, but it also means someone didn't defend their man well enough, someone missed a rotation, or a screen wasn't defended properly. Not always, but often enough that "blocked shots" don't necessarily mean "good defender".

[Zeitgeister]

PG's don't protect the rim and even the biggest ones lack the size to be decent shotblockers. I can see how adding an SF with size and shotblocking ability helps to protect the rim and balance out the frontcourt, but not a big PG. I'm curious as to why you think it would, but you seem more interested in acting like a baby.

Wow, you're clueless.

If a PG can keep the others teams PG out of the paint he is helping the frontcourt. J2J isn't saying he wants blocks from the PG just defense.

Thank you. I'm just dumbfounded why people can't grasp this concept. Blocked shots don't necessarily mean good defense.

I have this big wad of cash in my house. Everyone wants the money, everyone's trying to come over and grab it. Now I could sit in my attic with the cash holding a gun all day, shooting everyone who tries to get close, or I could just lock the front door and take down the sign that says, "free money." Hmm...

I agree in principle, but the only problem with that example is that everyone knows you have money and they all want to steal it regardless of whether you advertise free money or not. Locked doors will go along way in curbing the problem, but the threat of getting shot will make them think twice about trying to get that money.

I like a Jrue Holiday for this team more then Brandon Jennings, although I wouldn't be disappointed if we came away with him. He doesn't exactly fit with our team but we may be able to make it work. Jrue Holiday is the better option though, he has great size for a PG and he should be able to defend both positions very well. Not to mention he's a very smart player and a willing passer.

[john2jer]

Yeah, but then I have to sit at home all day and Uncle Sam calls me for 3 seconds.

And yes, I love Jrue Holiday. In fact I think Holiday is an exponentially greater value at #18 than Jennings is at #5.

[the_bruce]

We'd be crazy to take Jennings at 5. If MN took jennings anywhere with Harden, Evans, Derozan, or even Curry on the board I'd go nuts. Like more nuts than when we took brewer @7, and even though I like the brewer pick now. I hated it for a long time.