Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning

[shrink]

If we have Reid/Randle still it's a failure by T.C.

I don’t want to go too far off topic here, but I wanted to point out that GMs should sign any player they can get to sign to an under-market deal, even if they are only trade assets for later. Both Reid and Randle want to be here, so they might see them both here, if they are both on good deals. The key though is to find trades soon, before a lack of minutes reduces their production and trade value with other GMs.

[Norseman79]

If we have Reid/Randle still it's a failure by T.C.

I don’t want to go too far off topic here, but I wanted to point out that GMs should sign any player they can get to sign to an under-market deal, even if they are only trade assets for later. Both Reid and Randle want to be here, so they might see them both here, if they are both on good deals. The key though is to find deals soon, before a lack of minutes reduces their production and trade value with other GMs.

I would agree with that to a point, but how much under market value would you consider a deal?

[TimberKat]

Do we own some type of bird rights to Randle and Naz? Like sign them to over the cap? As an example, I am wondering if we have to trade Gobert to get KD, after that, sign Randle and Naz.

Yes we have bird rights to both of them if they were to opt out.

Trading Rudy for KD would still leave us roughly $19m short of matching KD's salary. We are about 12.8m under that 2nd apron so any deal for KD will take some finesse. Do we trade Rudy+, do we trade both Naz and Randle?


Now heres a name I wanna float out unrelated. What if we could trade for PJ Washington to replace Naz? PJ is a great offball player and a much better and more versatile defender than Naz. Just doesn't have as much size or shot-creation ability as Naz. Might be cheaper as well.

So, both Randle and Naz had already opted out. Wolves salary is at $145 at the moment. How would Naz for PJ work? Just simple sign and trade?

[moss_is_1]

Do we own some type of bird rights to Randle and Naz? Like sign them to over the cap? As an example, I am wondering if we have to trade Gobert to get KD, after that, sign Randle and Naz.

Yes we have bird rights to both of them if they were to opt out.

Trading Rudy for KD would still leave us roughly $19m short of matching KD's salary. We are about 12.8m under that 2nd apron so any deal for KD will take some finesse. Do we trade Rudy+, do we trade both Naz and Randle?


Now heres a name I wanna float out unrelated. What if we could trade for PJ Washington to replace Naz? PJ is a great offball player and a much better and more versatile defender than Naz. Just doesn't have as much size or shot-creation ability as Naz. Might be cheaper as well.

So, both Randle and Naz had already opted out. Wolves salary is at $145 at the moment. How would Naz for PJ work? Just simple sign and trade?

I'm not sure if Dallas would want Naz. I think they may be looking for pg help, or wing help but PJ might be a prime candidate for them to move. Just was floating ideas out if we were to lose Naz or he gets a big offer. We could find a 3 team trade, or maybe sign and trade of Naw?

[shrink]

I don’t want to go too far off topic here, but I wanted to point out that GMs should sign any player they can get to sign to an under-market deal, even if they are only trade assets for later. Both Reid and Randle want to be here, so they might see them both here, if they are both on good deals. The key though is to find deals soon, before a lack of minutes reduces their production and trade value with other GMs.

I would agree with that to a point, but how much under market value would you consider a deal?

Randle showed a lot in the second half of the season and the first two playoff series, so I think he rewrote his narrative a bit. I always thought his $30 mil player option was a fair number, and an extension that doesn’t make a big jump would still be attractive to a few buyers, even in an apron economy.

Naz Reid will likely stay here, but I don’t believe he’s a $30 mil player. That is the type of money you give to second or third options. We have become accustomed to comparing Naz to his previous year, and he usually made big jumps, but he started at zero expectations as an undrafted rookie. Credit to Naz for improving, but he did not seem to make a jump last year. In addition, his defense and rebounding could really use a boost, especially if teams want him to be their regular starter. Personally, I think he’s closer to a $20 mil player.

The other thing I wanted to mention is that there will likely be a LOT of trading this summer. There are maybe 13 teams in the West that want to make the playoffs, and with Tatum out for a year, many eastern conference teams may want to make a plunge. These team makeovers aren’t coming through free agency, and nobody has cap space - we will see trades. One good thing about having three rotation worthy players needing new deals is that with Bird rights, we can sign them to the number they want. For example, say DAL wanted Naz, and would pay him $25-28 mil if they had cap space. We don’t want Naz at that price, but he can get his money - only if DAL wants to give us some compensation in trade. With the free agency door almost completely closed, it may mean teams profit.

[moss_is_1]

So, both Randle and Naz had already opted out. Wolves salary is at $145 at the moment. How would Naz for PJ work? Just simple sign and trade?

I'm not sure if Dallas would want Naz. I think they may be looking for pg help, or wing help but PJ might be a prime candidate for them to move. Just was floating ideas out if we were to lose Naz or he gets a big offer. We could find a 3 team trade, or maybe sign and trade of Naw?

Also to add into this, maybe we get in on a Durant deal even if we aren't the ones getting him?

Phoenix probably has interest in Randle, Naz and Rudy. I'm sure teams looking to make noise would like those guys as well as DDV, Naw(sign and trade), and maybe even Mike.

Miami has liked Julius. Detroit likes Naz. Dallas looking for guard help, also rumored to want KD. Houston wants KD but could also look to add vets. Dallas has a lot of guys I'd be interested in if they're throwing them into a deal for someone like Simons or Sexton, or even Durant like Lively would be the ultimate dream. Gafford and Washington could also be great.

[minimus]

wrong thread

[Norseman79]

If we move off of Rudy, what would a Naz for Jarrett Allen trade look like for people? Cavs get a better fit next to Mobley, Wolves replace Rudy with Allen. Obviously not Naz for Allen straight up, but fill it in how you see fit.

[bluethunder0005]

If we move off of Rudy, what would a Naz for Jarrett Allen trade look like for people? Cavs get a better fit next to Mobley, Wolves replace Rudy with Allen. Obviously not Naz for Allen straight up, but fill it in how you see fit.

Not a fan. Allen is worse than Rudy overall. He's got better hands so it wouldn't be quite like playing 4 on 5 on offense like it can be at times with Rudy but he's still an inside only presence and he's no where near Rudy's level defensively. Allen is a large part of the reason Cleveland got beat by Indiana in their series. Of the 5 games in that series, there were 3 games where Allen had 5 or less rebounds, and Indiana isn't even an overly big team.

I think realistically, unless you have a legit low post offensive master like a Jokic or Embiid (healthy), the better way to go is trying to find a way to run a 5 out. Of the 4 teams that made the conference finals this year, 3 of them were mostly going 5 out as their primary style. I know the Knicks pivoted and switched in Robinson but that was a play at trying to abuse the Pacers size. Someone like Allen doesn't accomplish that due to being only 6'9 himself.

[cmoss84]

A trade scenario with KD and Giannis (this one works on spotrac)

Pistons acquire: Kevin Durant
Bucks acquire: Naz, Donte, RD, Jaden Ivey, Ron Holland II, Tobias Harris, picks
Suns acquire: Julius Randle and Isaiah Stewart
MN acquires: Giannis and Marcus Sasser

[BlacJacMac]

A trade scenario with KD and Giannis (this one works on spotrac)

Pistons acquire: Kevin Durant
Bucks acquire: Naz, Donte, RD, Jaden Ivey, Ron Holland II, Tobias Harris, picks
Suns acquire: Julius Randle and Isaiah Stewart
MN acquires: Giannis and Marcus Sasser

I guess the Pistons are including a bunch of 1st round picks, since MN and PHX are lacking?

[cmoss84]

A trade scenario with KD and Giannis (this one works on spotrac)

Pistons acquire: Kevin Durant
Bucks acquire: Naz, Donte, RD, Jaden Ivey, Ron Holland II, Tobias Harris, picks
Suns acquire: Julius Randle and Isaiah Stewart
MN acquires: Giannis and Marcus Sasser

I guess the Pistons are including a bunch of 1st round picks, since MN and PHX are lacking?

Look man, don't ruin this for me

[Mamba4Goat]

If we move off of Rudy, what would a Naz for Jarrett Allen trade look like for people? Cavs get a better fit next to Mobley, Wolves replace Rudy with Allen. Obviously not Naz for Allen straight up, but fill it in how you see fit.

Not a fan. Allen is worse than Rudy overall. He's got better hands so it wouldn't be quite like playing 4 on 5 on offense like it can be at times with Rudy but he's still an inside only presence and he's no where near Rudy's level defensively. Allen is a large part of the reason Cleveland got beat by Indiana in their series. Of the 5 games in that series, there were 3 games where Allen had 5 or less rebounds, and Indiana isn't even an overly big team.

I think realistically, unless you have a legit low post offensive master like a Jokic or Embiid (healthy), the better way to go is trying to find a way to run a 5 out. Of the 4 teams that made the conference finals this year, 3 of them were mostly going 5 out as their primary style. I know the Knicks pivoted and switched in Robinson but that was a play at trying to abuse the Pacers size. Someone like Allen doesn't accomplish that due to being only 6'9 himself.

I agree with this and think that if they move Rudy, cheapening out at center and using 17 and a hopefully freed up taxpayer MLE to mend the issue could be more beneficial than heavily investing back into it. Something like Capela and Sorber or Wolf with Naz sliding up from PF until the rook is ready would be the dream. Brook Lopez could be a good look too.

[TimberKat]

A trade scenario with KD and Giannis (this one works on spotrac)

Pistons acquire: Kevin Durant
Bucks acquire: Naz, Donte, RD, Jaden Ivey, Ron Holland II, Tobias Harris, picks
Suns acquire: Julius Randle and Isaiah Stewart
MN acquires: Giannis and Marcus Sasser

Love to pair Giannis with Ant but Bucks can't rebuild because they don't control their own picks.

[jpatrick]

A trade scenario with KD and Giannis (this one works on spotrac)

Pistons acquire: Kevin Durant
Bucks acquire: Naz, Donte, RD, Jaden Ivey, Ron Holland II, Tobias Harris, picks
Suns acquire: Julius Randle and Isaiah Stewart
MN acquires: Giannis and Marcus Sasser

Love to pair Giannis with Ant but Bucks can't rebuild because they don't control their own picks.

You’re right. But if Giannis asks out, I think they trade him. And unlike the Suns, they’d have nothing left to rebuild with. They will go for the heavy draft picks/young players package. And no way he ends up here. He’ll go to Houston or San Antonio for a bunch of young players, 4-5 #1 picks, and a bunch of swaps.

[cmoss84]

If we move off of Rudy, what would a Naz for Jarrett Allen trade look like for people? Cavs get a better fit next to Mobley, Wolves replace Rudy with Allen. Obviously not Naz for Allen straight up, but fill it in how you see fit.

Not a fan. Allen is worse than Rudy overall. He's got better hands so it wouldn't be quite like playing 4 on 5 on offense like it can be at times with Rudy but he's still an inside only presence and he's no where near Rudy's level defensively. Allen is a large part of the reason Cleveland got beat by Indiana in their series. Of the 5 games in that series, there were 3 games where Allen had 5 or less rebounds, and Indiana isn't even an overly big team.

I think realistically, unless you have a legit low post offensive master like a Jokic or Embiid (healthy), the better way to go is trying to find a way to run a 5 out. Of the 4 teams that made the conference finals this year, 3 of them were mostly going 5 out as their primary style. I know the Knicks pivoted and switched in Robinson but that was a play at trying to abuse the Pacers size. Someone like Allen doesn't accomplish that due to being only 6'9 himself.

I agree with this and think that if they move Rudy, cheapening out at center and using 17 and a hopefully freed up taxpayer MLE to mend the issue could be more beneficial than heavily investing back into it. Something like Capela and Sorber or Wolf with Naz sliding up from PF until the rook is ready would be the dream. Brook Lopez could be a good look too.

I think Rudy ultimately gets traded to Suns. I would love Luke Kornet as his replacement.

[Klomp]

I don't know if he's available, but I'd be interested in buying low on Brandin Podziemski

[Ethomasp31]

What would the Wolves have to give up to get KD and Garland? Would JMD have to be involved to get Garland? Randle, Dillingham and Naz being used to get KD and an asset we could use with JMD to get Garland? I'm assuming that #17 would be involved as well...

Garland ($40M)
Ant ($45M)
TSJ ($3M)
KD ($55M)
Rudy ($35M)

~$175M

with DDV ($12M), Conley ($11M), Clark, Miller, Minott, Garza & 31 ($11M total) off the bench?

Those guys are a little more than $208M which is about where the second apron will be at?

We would need another big which would put us over the second apron most likely....maybe move Rudy as well for a cheaper option...

[cmoss84]

I don't know if he's available, but I'd be interested in buying low on Brandin Podziemski

Big time.
He is VERY underrated in my book.

[BlacJacMac]

I would not trade McDaniels straight up for Garland.