Jimmy Butler Traded to Philadelphia (Discussion Continued)

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

THERE is where Minnesota messed up IF Patton stays healthy .

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two surgeries on the same bad foot! wtf is there to miss? the guy will be lucky to have an NBA career being that big with a bum foot.

They saved Embiid.

Yup.

This is at least the best case scenario for Patton in this medical staff being patient. They may invest another contract in him since he was included in the Jimmy Butler deal.

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[Neal25]

Neither Fultz nor 1st round pick and you still keep Dieng. It´s not a good deal. Now Thibs has a deep team to rotate but we have lost a star for two players that are not going to make the difference. We rely on Towns and Rose to reach the playoffs. It´s sad and shows how bad the situation has been managed that this awful road-trip has been needed to trade Butler when the issue was clear since the summer while Thibodeau was looking to other side.

Good luck to Covington and Saric , both are terrific players in his role.

[SixersMS]

Saric does nothing for me. Wish there was something he actually does really well, but I fail to see how he moves the needle in any sense.

Saric is a bad fit with KAT, he cant play D at all. He tries but he's so limited athletically and defensively. He hustles and plays hard but he gets exposed on defense on a nightly basis. Well liked by teammates however.

You guys were in a tough spot youn NEVER get equal value in this situation.... good luck!! I will cheering for the Timberwolves!!

[SO_MONEY]

We got a 27 (28) y/o who doesn't fit with the timeline

How doesn't he fit the timeline?

Really? A guy who is about to turn 28 and is a role player fits in the timeline of a team with early twenty-something players who won't compete for at least another three years, making that player on the wrong side of 30 and likely supplanted by a younger player *cough* and thus likely a replaceable piece. C'mon. I think you doth protest too much. I suspect it doesn't take much to make you happy and you try too justify away bad things or ignore them completely to keep that internal balance.

Like I said there are THREE outcomes:

1. You make the playoffs (unlikely), congratulations you have middled and have thus FAILED.

2. You become slightly below average, which is worse than middling and have thus FAILED.

3. You are awful and thus you have FAILED, because this was not the aim of the trade.

This trade provided no upward mobility or flexibility for the future and for that we FAILED.

[Slim Tubby]

Neither Fultz nor 1st round pick and you still keep Dieng. It´s not a good deal. Now Thibs has a deep team to rotate but we have lost a star for two players that are not going to make the difference. We rely on Towns and Rose to reach the playoffs. It´s sad and shows how bad the situation has been managed that this awful road-trip has been needed to trade Butler when the issue was clear since the summer while Thibodeau was looking to other side.

Good luck to Covington and Saric , both are terrific players in his role.

When I originally heard about the trade I was disappointed in the return at first, especially not getting back a FRP. Having a day to digest it, I think we did as well as we could.

I like the skill sets of both players but what I like more are their current deals. Both players should hold great trade value if other opportunities come up.

I think Biid will gel with Butler but I can't wait to see how Jimmy messes with Ben "Softer than butter" Simmons and Markelle "has anyone seen my jumper" Fultz.

I think it's 100% certain that Butler re-signs with Philly because after all, Jimmy only cares about one thing...Jimmy...and his money. This could be great for the Sixers or it could absolutely blow up in their faces. They have no true PF, less shooting, less defense, less depth and most importantly, a player who has no problem creating negativity in the locker room. Grab some popcorn, sit back and enjoy what could be the glorious destruction of the Sixers from Tankerville, PA.


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[Truebiscuit]

It's hard to believe he still doesn't understand after you laid it out for him multiple times. We traded for Jimmy Butler with 2 years left on his deal to try to make a leap. It didn't really work, and now he has less that a year left and is currently demanding a trade and sabotaging the organization. Of course he is worth less now. You even used a different analogy to reset the context.

BUT JIMMY BUTLER ISN'T A CAR

I'm glad you sold low then?

And so did the Bulls last year. That's what happens when you're forced to trade a star in the NBA. You usually don't get a good return. The fact that you can't see that they are two totally different situations with different value levels is pathetic.

Pathetic is the right word, you might be missing the context though. cheers mate

[Mattya]

THERE is where Minnesota messed up IF Patton stays healthy .

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two surgeries on the same bad foot! wtf is there to miss? the guy will be lucky to have an NBA career being that big with a bum foot.

They saved Embiid.

Patton isn’t as talented as Embiid. One guy was drafted number 3 despite the injury concerns, the other guy was a mid first with no injury concerns. That is without mentioning that Patton has had 2 surgeries on the first foot to break and before that one was fully recovered he broke his other foot.

[Indomitable]

two surgeries on the same bad foot! wtf is there to miss? the guy will be lucky to have an NBA career being that big with a bum foot.

They saved Embiid.

Patton isn’t as talented as Embiid. One guy was drafted number 3 despite the injury concerns, the other guy was a mid first with no injury concerns. That is without mentioning that Patton has had 2 surgeries on the first foot to break and before that one was fully recovered he broke his other foot.

Joel had a fracture but they took the long road. Patton has potential and Philly has a history of helping this. Simmons had a broken foot too.

I believe they will do better by him.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

two surgeries on the same bad foot! wtf is there to miss? the guy will be lucky to have an NBA career being that big with a bum foot.

They saved Embiid.

Patton isn’t as talented as Embiid. One guy was drafted number 3 despite the injury concerns, the other guy was a mid first with no injury concerns. That is without mentioning that Patton has had 2 surgeries on the first foot to break and before that one was fully recovered he broke his other foot.

PATTON ISN'T AS...

That's when I said to myself WTH? Who said he was?

Embiid had injuries. Back is serious.

Patton isn't a #1 overall.

Your post seems contentious and I am not arguing a thing.

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[AirP.]

Really? A guy who is about to turn 28 and is a role player fits in the timeline of a team with early twenty-something players who won't compete for at least another three years, making that player on the wrong side of 30 and likely supplanted by a younger player *cough* and thus likely a replaceable piece. C'mon. I think you doth protest too much. I suspect it doesn't take much to make you happy and you try too justify away bad things or ignore them completely to keep that internal balance.

Like I said there are THREE outcomes:

1. You make the playoffs, congratulations you have middled and have thus FAILED.

2. You become slightly below average, which is worse than middling and have thus FAILED.

3. You are awful and thus you have FAILED, because this was not the aim of the trade.

This trade provided no upward mobility or flexibility for the future and for that we FAILED.

Or you went from a 31 team and came very close to be the #3 seed in the West, minus a big injury to Butler, they probably would have had the #3 seed.

The real question is why did Butler want out so badly(I get money because he no longer wanted his bird rights in Minnesota). Chicago had the young guys goofing off during games and the FO decided to rebuild, that was easy to see, that wasn't what was suppose to be happening in Minnesota. It may be a long, long time before this franchise gets back to .500 in the West, but at least you'll have lottery picks to hopefully hit on since this franchise doesn't really have a history of adding really good players in free agency(and Wiggins and Towns will be eating up half the cap).

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

They saved Embiid.

Patton isn’t as talented as Embiid. One guy was drafted number 3 despite the injury concerns, the other guy was a mid first with no injury concerns. That is without mentioning that Patton has had 2 surgeries on the first foot to break and before that one was fully recovered he broke his other foot.

Joel had a fracture but they took the long road. Patton has potential and Philly has a history of helping this. Simmons had a broken foot too.

I believe they will do better by him.

I do, too.

It's a good low risk with rewards possible move by Philly .

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[Klomp]

We got a 27 (28) y/o who doesn't fit with the timeline

How doesn't he fit the timeline?

Really? A guy who is about to turn 28 and is a role player fits in the timeline of a team with early twenty-something players who won't compete for at least another three years, making that player on the wrong side of 30 and likely supplanted by a younger player *cough* and thus likely a replaceable piece.

Yes, because you don't need 15 players between 23 and 25 years old in order to build a team to compete in the future. All winning rosters have players of all ages. The teams that are annually in the cellar are the teams that only have young guys because they have the defeatist mentality that they aren't any good so you can't add "old" players who are 26 or older.

[SO_MONEY]

How doesn't he fit the timeline?

Really? A guy who is about to turn 28 and is a role player fits in the timeline of a team with early twenty-something players who won't compete for at least another three years, making that player on the wrong side of 30 and likely supplanted by a younger player *cough* and thus likely a replaceable piece.

Yes, because you don't need 15 players between 23 and 25 years old in order to build a team to compete in the future. All winning rosters have players of all ages. The teams that are annually in the cellar are the teams that only have young guys because they have the defeatist mentality that they aren't any good so you can't add "old" players who are 26 or older.

This isn't a winning team though. If it were I wouldn't have the same argument.

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[Klomp]

This isn't a winning team though. If it were I wouldn't have the same argument.

And clearly you're fine with that. And some are fine with 13 years out of the playoffs because hey.....young players, draft picks, cap space, POTENTIAL!

I'm sick of that. I've come to realize that only one team wins the NBA title each season, but there is more than one successful franchise in the league every year. As much as I want an NBA title, that doesn't define success to me. I do know that giving up because "we won't compete for 3 years" is a defeatist attitude and is pretty close to defining failure for me.

[SO_MONEY]

This isn't a winning team though. If it were I wouldn't have the same argument.

And clearly you're fine with that. And some are fine with 13 years out of the playoffs because hey.....young players, draft picks, cap space, POTENTIAL!

I'm sick of that. I've come to realize that only one team wins the NBA title each season, but there is more than one successful franchise in the league every year. As much as I want an NBA title, that doesn't define success to me. I do know that giving up because "we won't compete for 3 years" is a defeatist attitude and is pretty close to defining failure for me.

Clearly, I am not okay with that. If we are not a winning team we needed the options and flexibly to become one, that was the opprutunity the trade presented, we middled. You are the one who seems okay with not being a winning team or not having conventional options to become one. Either way don't blame me for wanting to win and don't blame people who are willing to use long-term thinking either, because I guarantee they think middling is defeatist. What matters is winning, how you get there doesn't matter, but middling is the worst of all options and is the most defeatist, it is basically giving up on trying to be competitive. So there.

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[sky4it]

Really? A guy who is about to turn 28 and is a role player fits in the timeline of a team with early twenty-something players who won't compete for at least another three years, making that player on the wrong side of 30 and likely supplanted by a younger player *cough* and thus likely a replaceable piece. C'mon. I think you doth protest too much. I suspect it doesn't take much to make you happy and you try too justify away bad things or ignore them completely to keep that internal balance.

Like I said there are THREE outcomes:

1. You make the playoffs, congratulations you have middled and have thus FAILED.

2. You become slightly below average, which is worse than middling and have thus FAILED.

3. You are awful and thus you have FAILED, because this was not the aim of the trade.

This trade provided no upward mobility or flexibility for the future and for that we FAILED.

Or you went from a 31 team and came very close to be the #3 seed in the West, minus a big injury to Butler, they probably would have had the #3 seed.

The real question is why did Butler want out so badly(I get money because he no longer wanted his bird rights in Minnesota). Chicago had the young guys goofing off during games and the FO decided to rebuild, that was easy to see, that wasn't what was suppose to be happening in Minnesota. It may be a long, long time before this franchise gets back to .500 in the West, but at least you'll have lottery picks to hopefully hit on since this franchise doesn't really have a history of adding really good players in free agency(and Wiggins and Towns will be eating up half the cap).

And that is a really great question. I think I can answer part of the question. Chicago is a brutal town to get into arguments in the media. The Chicago media would have torn Butler apart.

I like the trade. sick of listening to Butler talk about how its all about the winning but he didnt give 2 **** about tearing the team chemistry apart when the season started.

Covington is a great add. Butler was too much like Wigg, that was the big question mark when Butler arrived. This trade might actually help Jeff Teague, run a better offense.

[Mattya]

They saved Embiid.

Patton isn’t as talented as Embiid. One guy was drafted number 3 despite the injury concerns, the other guy was a mid first with no injury concerns. That is without mentioning that Patton has had 2 surgeries on the first foot to break and before that one was fully recovered he broke his other foot.

Joel had a fracture but they took the long road. Patton has potential and Philly has a history of helping this. Simmons had a broken foot too.

I believe they will do better by him.

Embiid’s talent was clear, Patton is just what you said potential. There was never a question if Embiid would be good. But for a developing player like Patton who is mostly just potential missing 2 years of basketball and having multiple surgeries on both feet is not something you can just brush off. They are not equal. Not sure how Philly can do better by him. He literally broke his foot the first week he was in Minnesota.

[MN7725]

Patton isn’t as talented as Embiid. One guy was drafted number 3 despite the injury concerns, the other guy was a mid first with no injury concerns. That is without mentioning that Patton has had 2 surgeries on the first foot to break and before that one was fully recovered he broke his other foot.

Joel had a fracture but they took the long road. Patton has potential and Philly has a history of helping this. Simmons had a broken foot too.

I believe they will do better by him.

Embiid’s talent was clear, Patton is just what you said potential. There was never a question if Embiid would be good. But for a developing player like Patton who is mostly just potential missing 2 years of basketball and having multiple surgeries on both feet is not something you can just brush off. They are not equal. Not sure how Philly can do better by him. He literally broke his foot the first week he was in Minnesota.

Patton will be a UFA, he's going to go wherever he feels he has the best chance to start a career, has a path towards playing time. Might be Philly, likely not

He was included in this trade because otherwise Wolves would have been less than $1 mil away from luxury tax (not over it) which makes any further moves complicated

Krawczynski confirmed this on Sam Vecenie's podcast

[Calinks]

I'm still disappointed with the trade. These guys look like decent pieces but they wont move the needle. They are probably good enough to keep us decently competitive, so this will probably be a treadmill season, we will hover a handful of games below .500 and finish like 10-12 pick wise. I hate tanking with a passion but we probably need to get a top 5 pick. I dont know what we can do beyond drafting to get into top 4 contendership in the next season or two.

The reality is Butler, and maybe Thibs depending on how he handled thing behind the scenes, have really screwed us badly. We are in no mans land. The same place we have been in much of the Love era. No obvious upside but not awful enough to get great draft picks.

[walk with me]

They are thibs stans though not jimmy

They will stick around until thibs gets sacked

Jimmy is the opposite. He's one of the very best players in the league but he's a terrible locker room guy and very hard to root for. His fans are also terrible. Still, you will wins lots of games.

I forgot about the few Jimmy Butler posters on this board. I'll miss AirP. though.

Wonder where Walk With Me went?

I’m bored with a handful of you people. Even if thibs got a 20 year extension, this message board isn’t that fun in general. Some of you guys are great though.

Too many wishy washy fans who only see what they want, hardly know basketball and are ridiculously negative. I still watch though the boards though.

With that said jimmy had to go. Kat couldn’t function with him on the court. Kat is fragile and with his fragility exposed via jimmy he shelled up. Now Kat will go back to 30&20s but will still be soft.

The trades a win now and win later trade. Cov fits Kat and Wiggins better than jimmy does all things considered. Saric bolsters the bench, he cant start cause what others have said about his defense (combined with Kats)

Anyone worried about being a “middling” team shouldn’t. It’s actually a pretty irrelevant concept in today’s nba. Lotto picks in this era are almost as much a crap shoot as guys 15-30.