The Jaylen Nowell Thread

[Klomp]

Doogie reporting we've tried offering 3/$9 million and 4/$13 million extensions. Nowell said no (obviously). Not close.

I could see 4/$20 or 4/$22 at the cheapest, but it isn’t likely. More likely is something like 3/$26 or something similar probably in the 8-10 range. Could be higher if he had a great year.

Which likely means he becomes a possible trade deadline candidate if they can't come to an agreement.

[winforlose]

Doogie reporting we've tried offering 3/$9 million and 4/$13 million extensions. Nowell said no (obviously). Not close.

I could see 4/$20 or 4/$22 at the cheapest, but it isn’t likely. More likely is something like 3/$26 or something similar probably in the 8-10 range. Could be higher if he had a great year.

Which likely means he becomes a possible trade deadline candidate if they can't come to an agreement.

Or we pay him what he is worth.

[Klomp]

I could see 4/$20 or 4/$22 at the cheapest, but it isn’t likely. More likely is something like 3/$26 or something similar probably in the 8-10 range. Could be higher if he had a great year.

Which likely means he becomes a possible trade deadline candidate if they can't come to an agreement.

Or we pay him what he is worth.

As I said, if they can't come to an agreement.

[winforlose]

Which likely means he becomes a possible trade deadline candidate if they can't come to an agreement.

Or we pay him what he is worth.

As I said, if they can't come to an agreement.

With his money it would be extremely difficult to trade for a player of equivalent or significant value. We could move him for picks but that would hurt our second unit. Likely we keep him and try to sign and trade or simply sign a new deal with him in the offseason. Especially if we are top 4 in the west or close to it.

[Rookie-Mistake]

Interesting..
We really are putting him in a position to excel this year.. Connelly and Gupta most likely have done the analytics and predictions and are trying to lock him up on the cheap.. again.

Doogie reporting we've tried offering 3/$9 million and 4/$13 million extensions. Nowell said no (obviously). Not close.

Sent from my SM-G991B using RealGM mobile app

[Klomp]

Or we pay him what he is worth.

As I said, if they can't come to an agreement.

With his money it would be extremely difficult to trade for a player of equivalent or significant value. We could move him for picks but that would hurt our second unit. Likely we keep him and try to sign and trade or simply sign a new deal with him in the offseason. Especially if we are top 4 in the west or close to it.

2-for-1 trades are allowed in the CBA. I could easily envision a trade combining Nowell with someone like Prince for an upgrade.

[winforlose]

As I said, if they can't come to an agreement.

With his money it would be extremely difficult to trade for a player of equivalent or significant value. We could move him for picks but that would hurt our second unit. Likely we keep him and try to sign and trade or simply sign a new deal with him in the offseason. Especially if we are top 4 in the west or close to it.

2-for-1 trades are allowed in the CBA. I could easily envision a trade combining Nowell with someone like Prince for an upgrade.

Yes, but that means we lose 2 rotation players. Lawson better have an amazing year in the G because I doubt Moore or Minott will be ready to step in. If you believe Nowell is a legit 6th man you keep him and hope his bird rights will be enough to get him to resign at proper value.

Nowell and Prince together is 10 million. What upgrade do you envision for 10 million being worth our backup SG and SF as well as our PG insurance policy if JMAC had a bad year?

[Klomp]

Yes, but that means we lose 2 rotation players. Lawson better have an amazing year in the G because I doubt Moore or Minott will be ready to step in. If you believe Nowell is a legit 6th man you keep him and hope his bird rights will be enough to get him to resign at proper value.

Nowell and Prince together is 10 million. What upgrade do you envision for 10 million being worth our backup SG and SF as well as our PG insurance policy if JMAC had a bad year?

Why on earth are you jumping to our 15th man and a 2-way player to solve this problem? If this is what happens, it is exactly why we brought in veterans Austin Rivers and Bryn Forbes.

I don't know who the target would be. But it wouldn't be that hard to find one if people are willing to keep an open mind.

[winforlose]

Yes, but that means we lose 2 rotation players. Lawson better have an amazing year in the G because I doubt Moore or Minott will be ready to step in. If you believe Nowell is a legit 6th man you keep him and hope his bird rights will be enough to get him to resign at proper value.

Nowell and Prince together is 10 million. What upgrade do you envision for 10 million being worth our backup SG and SF as well as our PG insurance policy if JMAC had a bad year?

Why on earth are you jumping to our 15th man and a 2-way player to solve this problem? If this is what happens, it is exactly why we brought in veterans Austin Rivers and Bryn Forbes.

I don't know who the target would be. But it wouldn't be that hard to find one if people are willing to keep an open mind.

Are you assuming Prince has a bad season? If Nowell had a bad season we could resign him at the current offer price. If both have a good year what could you possibly replace both of the with for 10 million. Rivers is not a viable 2nd string. He proved it beyond doubt last year in Denver. Forbes is a spot minutes microwave scorer who can play 3rd string in a pinch. Great depth guys, but not guys you want at 2nd string. We are also painful thin at PG and need Nowell to add depth there. If you bring in a PG/SG to replace Nowell who is replacing Prince? You could shorten the rotation and have Ant and KA cover some minutes but then we are more susceptible to injury or foul trouble. Lawson is the natural step up guy if he is good enough. In any event, you must think very little of our 2nd unit to think we can drop two primary backups for one 10 million dollar player.

[Zonarosa]

With his money it would be extremely difficult to trade for a player of equivalent or significant value. We could move him for picks but that would hurt our second unit. Likely we keep him and try to sign and trade or simply sign a new deal with him in the offseason. Especially if we are top 4 in the west or close to it.

2-for-1 trades are allowed in the CBA. I could easily envision a trade combining Nowell with someone like Prince for an upgrade.

Yes, but that means we lose 2 rotation players. Lawson better have an amazing year in the G because I doubt Moore or Minott will be ready to step in. If you believe Nowell is a legit 6th man you keep him and hope his bird rights will be enough to get him to resign at proper value.

Nowell and Prince together is 10 million. What upgrade do you envision for 10 million being worth our backup SG and SF as well as our PG insurance policy if JMAC had a bad year?

why would any deal like that fall on Lawson’s shoulders? I imagine that scenario is exactly the reason they brought in forbes, or even rivers. mainly, to provide positional flexibility and act as a buffer in spot minutes until they get a better idea of the development of those at the back.

your distrust of McLaughlin is so overt and over-the-top that’s it’s ridiculous.

[winforlose]

2-for-1 trades are allowed in the CBA. I could easily envision a trade combining Nowell with someone like Prince for an upgrade.

Yes, but that means we lose 2 rotation players. Lawson better have an amazing year in the G because I doubt Moore or Minott will be ready to step in. If you believe Nowell is a legit 6th man you keep him and hope his bird rights will be enough to get him to resign at proper value.

Nowell and Prince together is 10 million. What upgrade do you envision for 10 million being worth our backup SG and SF as well as our PG insurance policy if JMAC had a bad year?

why would any deal like that fall on Lawson’s shoulders? I imagine that scenario is exactly the reason they brought in forbes, or even rivers. mainly, to provide positional flexibility and act as a buffer in spot minutes until they get a better idea of the development of those at the back.

your distrust of McLaughlin is so overt and over-the-top that’s it’s ridiculous.

You assume that if a player has a good second half of the season they turned a corner, I don’t. JMAC had a better end of 20/21 than you think and he turned unplayable in the first half of 21/22. I am not trying to hide it, of course it is overt. I even started 2 polls about not wanting JMAC at PG2 (one before and one after Rivers signing.) It is not ridiculous, half the responders think he is a PG3. Moreover, Rivers and Forbes didn’t exactly light it up in Denver when given a ton of minutes. I like Forbes as a third string SG with situational 2nd string minutes. I think Rivers is a fine SG3 but not a fine PG3. The problem is Forbes is SG3. Nowell is the ONLY insurance we have against JMAC collapsing and it is not so far out of the realm of possibility that it can be easily dismissed.

With MCD starting at SF (his natural position,) Prince is his logical backup. After that you could either slot in Lawson or move Ant and/or KA to fill the minutes. The problem with taking KA is that now you need PF minutes from Knight, Paschall, or Reid. Reid and KAT don’t mix well, so the rotation gets a little tighter than I like. Knight is not someone I have faith in (he is the biggest mistake of the entire offseason in my eyes,) and Paschall is good but I am not sure he will get enough run to understand our system. If Lawson is playing very well he could become the backup 3. All of this presumes Moore and Minott need a full year in the G which I firmly believe. The buyout market is the other potential answer to how to replace Nowell or Prince if we consolidate them. That said I still prefer keeping Nowell and gambling or better yet PAY HIM WHAT HE IS WORTH.

[Zonarosa]

i’m not even going to bother re-engaging in this argument again given how rigidly you view our depth. the way i see it, going off what i assume our active roster will be, we’ve got ten guys that can play multiple positions. seven of those ten could potentially be used to initiate the offense, either on a break or in the half court.

your obsession with designations of pg2/3 or sg2/3 is just…whatever. i’m done.

[Klomp]

You assume that if a player has a good second half of the season they turned a corner, I don’t. JMAC had a better end of 20/21 than you think and he turned unplayable in the first half of 21/22. I am not trying to hide it, of course it is overt. I even started 2 polls about not wanting JMAC at PG2 (one before and one after Rivers signing.) It is not ridiculous, half the responders think he is a PG3. Moreover, Rivers and Forbes didn’t exactly light it up in Denver when given a ton of minutes. I like Forbes as a third string SG with situational 2nd string minutes. I think Rivers is a fine SG3 but not a fine PG3. The problem is Forbes is SG3. Nowell is the ONLY insurance we have against JMAC collapsing and it is not so far out of the realm of possibility that it can be easily dismissed.

With MCD starting at SF (his natural position,) Prince is his logical backup. After that you could either slot in Lawson or move Ant and/or KA to fill the minutes. The problem with taking KA is that now you need PF minutes from Knight, Paschall, or Reid. Reid and KAT don’t mix well, so the rotation gets a little tighter than I like. Knight is not someone I have faith in (he is the biggest mistake of the entire offseason in my eyes,) and Paschall is good but I am not sure he will get enough run to understand our system. If Lawson is playing very well he could become the backup 3. All of this presumes Moore and Minott need a full year in the G which I firmly believe. The buyout market is the other potential answer to how to replace Nowell or Prince if we consolidate them. That said I still prefer keeping Nowell and gambling or better yet PAY HIM WHAT HE IS WORTH.

In an ideal world, our SF3 would be LeBron James behind Kevin Durant and Giannis Antetokounmpo.

No team has an ideal roster. Especially with our finances centered on the center position, it does make us shallower than ideal. But that's totally fine. McLaughlin is fine as PG2, even if it's not ideal. Rivers would be fine as PG3, even if it's not ideal.

[winforlose]

You assume that if a player has a good second half of the season they turned a corner, I don’t. JMAC had a better end of 20/21 than you think and he turned unplayable in the first half of 21/22. I am not trying to hide it, of course it is overt. I even started 2 polls about not wanting JMAC at PG2 (one before and one after Rivers signing.) It is not ridiculous, half the responders think he is a PG3. Moreover, Rivers and Forbes didn’t exactly light it up in Denver when given a ton of minutes. I like Forbes as a third string SG with situational 2nd string minutes. I think Rivers is a fine SG3 but not a fine PG3. The problem is Forbes is SG3. Nowell is the ONLY insurance we have against JMAC collapsing and it is not so far out of the realm of possibility that it can be easily dismissed.

With MCD starting at SF (his natural position,) Prince is his logical backup. After that you could either slot in Lawson or move Ant and/or KA to fill the minutes. The problem with taking KA is that now you need PF minutes from Knight, Paschall, or Reid. Reid and KAT don’t mix well, so the rotation gets a little tighter than I like. Knight is not someone I have faith in (he is the biggest mistake of the entire offseason in my eyes,) and Paschall is good but I am not sure he will get enough run to understand our system. If Lawson is playing very well he could become the backup 3. All of this presumes Moore and Minott need a full year in the G which I firmly believe. The buyout market is the other potential answer to how to replace Nowell or Prince if we consolidate them. That said I still prefer keeping Nowell and gambling or better yet PAY HIM WHAT HE IS WORTH.

In an ideal world, our SF3 would be LeBron James behind Kevin Durant and Giannis Antetokounmpo.

No team has an ideal roster. Especially with our finances centered on the center position, it does make us shallower than ideal. But that's totally fine. McLaughlin is fine as PG2, even if it's not ideal. Rivers would be fine as PG3, even if it's not ideal.

Your talking about trading away 2 second string players for one. You refuse to give any examples of an upgrade at either SG or SF in the 10 mil range. Your statements that JMAC is fine at PG2 are not supported by the poll, your statement that Rivers is fine at PG3 is not supported by anything (his stats, his history, his skill set,) ect… You cannot even explain to me why you would trade Nowell instead of keeping him till the end of the year and offering him what he is worth. What kind of discussion is this?

[Zonarosa]

still basing his opinion of mclaughlin on a poll he created that was responded to by a dozen rando’s.

[winforlose]

still basing his opinion of mclaughlin on a poll he created that was responded to by a dozen rando’s.

Basing my opinion on multiple years of seeing JMAC play. Plus out of curiosity how many of the responders you imagine where not native to our board? You said yourself you “lurk” so other wolves fans are rando’s for doing the same?

[Klomp]

You assume that if a player has a good second half of the season they turned a corner, I don’t. JMAC had a better end of 20/21 than you think and he turned unplayable in the first half of 21/22. I am not trying to hide it, of course it is overt. I even started 2 polls about not wanting JMAC at PG2 (one before and one after Rivers signing.) It is not ridiculous, half the responders think he is a PG3. Moreover, Rivers and Forbes didn’t exactly light it up in Denver when given a ton of minutes. I like Forbes as a third string SG with situational 2nd string minutes. I think Rivers is a fine SG3 but not a fine PG3. The problem is Forbes is SG3. Nowell is the ONLY insurance we have against JMAC collapsing and it is not so far out of the realm of possibility that it can be easily dismissed.

With MCD starting at SF (his natural position,) Prince is his logical backup. After that you could either slot in Lawson or move Ant and/or KA to fill the minutes. The problem with taking KA is that now you need PF minutes from Knight, Paschall, or Reid. Reid and KAT don’t mix well, so the rotation gets a little tighter than I like. Knight is not someone I have faith in (he is the biggest mistake of the entire offseason in my eyes,) and Paschall is good but I am not sure he will get enough run to understand our system. If Lawson is playing very well he could become the backup 3. All of this presumes Moore and Minott need a full year in the G which I firmly believe. The buyout market is the other potential answer to how to replace Nowell or Prince if we consolidate them. That said I still prefer keeping Nowell and gambling or better yet PAY HIM WHAT HE IS WORTH.

In an ideal world, our SF3 would be LeBron James behind Kevin Durant and Giannis Antetokounmpo.

No team has an ideal roster. Especially with our finances centered on the center position, it does make us shallower than ideal. But that's totally fine. McLaughlin is fine as PG2, even if it's not ideal. Rivers would be fine as PG3, even if it's not ideal.

Your talking about trading away 2 second string players for one. You refuse to give any examples of an upgrade at either SG or SF in the 10 mil range. Your statements that JMAC is fine at PG2 are not supported by the poll, your statement that Rivers is fine at PG3 is not supported by anything (his stats, his history, his skill set,) ect… You cannot even explain to me why you would trade Nowell instead of keeping him till the end of the year and offering him what he is worth. What kind of discussion is this?

"Offer him what he is worth" is such a flimsy argument. The point here is that Minnesota isn't willing to offer that much and Nowell isn't willing to take what Minnesota is offering. The team has cap implications for every signing they make. There are reasons why they shouldn't just offer him what he wants. If he wants the max, would you give it to him?

You're belittling of players like Kyle Anderson is also interesting. Would you not trade Nowell and Prince for Anderson if you had a chance? Anderson makes under $10 million. Plenty of quality rotation players come around $10 million. It's not my responsibility to give you a list.

[SO_MONEY]

In an ideal world, our SF3 would be LeBron James behind Kevin Durant and Giannis Antetokounmpo.

No team has an ideal roster. Especially with our finances centered on the center position, it does make us shallower than ideal. But that's totally fine. McLaughlin is fine as PG2, even if it's not ideal. Rivers would be fine as PG3, even if it's not ideal.

Your talking about trading away 2 second string players for one. You refuse to give any examples of an upgrade at either SG or SF in the 10 mil range. Your statements that JMAC is fine at PG2 are not supported by the poll, your statement that Rivers is fine at PG3 is not supported by anything (his stats, his history, his skill set,) ect… You cannot even explain to me why you would trade Nowell instead of keeping him till the end of the year and offering him what he is worth. What kind of discussion is this?

"Offer him what he is worth" is such a flimsy argument. The point here is that Minnesota isn't willing to offer that much and Nowell isn't willing to take what Minnesota is offering. The team has cap implications for every signing they make. There are reasons why they shouldn't just offer him what he wants. If he wants the max, would you give it to him?

You're belittling of players like Kyle Anderson is also interesting. Would you not trade Nowell and Prince for Anderson if you had a chance? Anderson makes under $10 million. Plenty of quality rotation players come around $10 million. It's not my responsibility to give you a list.

Personally I wouldn't trade any of our younger proven players that we need to keep the window open longer for a player that closes it much sooner.

Nowell is a young HIGH ceiling player so if you trade him it is for an equal type of player. Not Anderson. Anderson is very nice player, but we got him via FA I remind you. AND with how the team is situated we should be players in the buyout market for a time.

[minimus]

"Offer him what he is worth" is such a flimsy argument. The point here is that Minnesota isn't willing to offer that much and Nowell isn't willing to take what Minnesota is offering. The team has cap implications for every signing they make. There are reasons why they shouldn't just offer him what he wants. If he wants the max, would you give it to him?

Yeah, the goal of GM is to assemble winning combination of players using certain budget. As long as TC is able to do it with Nowell he should do it. If not, there are other roads.

[winforlose]

In an ideal world, our SF3 would be LeBron James behind Kevin Durant and Giannis Antetokounmpo.

No team has an ideal roster. Especially with our finances centered on the center position, it does make us shallower than ideal. But that's totally fine. McLaughlin is fine as PG2, even if it's not ideal. Rivers would be fine as PG3, even if it's not ideal.

Your talking about trading away 2 second string players for one. You refuse to give any examples of an upgrade at either SG or SF in the 10 mil range. Your statements that JMAC is fine at PG2 are not supported by the poll, your statement that Rivers is fine at PG3 is not supported by anything (his stats, his history, his skill set,) ect… You cannot even explain to me why you would trade Nowell instead of keeping him till the end of the year and offering him what he is worth. What kind of discussion is this?

"Offer him what he is worth" is such a flimsy argument. The point here is that Minnesota isn't willing to offer that much and Nowell isn't willing to take what Minnesota is offering. The team has cap implications for every signing they make. There are reasons why they shouldn't just offer him what he wants. If he wants the max, would you give it to him?

You're belittling of players like Kyle Anderson is also interesting. Would you not trade Nowell and Prince for Anderson if you had a chance? Anderson makes under $10 million. Plenty of quality rotation players come around $10 million. It's not my responsibility to give you a list.

The point here is that we have tried to low ball him. Tyus Jones got paid 9 mil for 3 to leave us, I see Nowell as having more upside and maybe even a higher floor. That being said I am not advocating overpaying either. I already suggested his value is probably in the 8-10 range, and I would probably pay that now rather than risk him having a breakout year and costing 12-15 later. The only thing I don’t know is whether there are limitations on what we can offer as an extension given that he was a second round pick. I don’t think that is an issue given that we own bird rights, and that he is coming off a rookie deal, but I would love confirmation of that.

Of course I wouldn’t, would you? KA might be an awesome defender and true difference maker, but then again he might not. He is a great free agent signing, but he is not someone so much better than the combined production of both Nowell and Prince that I would weaken myself in a contending year to chase. Nowell is a 50/40/80 3 level scorer, Prince is a corner 3 point shooter who in theory can defend (I say in theory because we made him guard out of position last year to negative results.) I might give Prince for KA if I knew I could replace Prince in the buyout market (again talking about mid season,) but I would never add Nowell to that. How many guys are a true upgrade on Nowell or are that much better than Nowell and Prince for 10 mil. I cannot think of any, and I don’t think you can either.

Finally, we put together a very expensive roster. Spending money on players like Nowell and Naz is essential for later. Whether we keep them or move them, we have the bird rights and can create room to make other moves with bigger number deals. We need to start operating like a high tax team, not nickel and dime like a no tax team.