Ben Simmons Thread (READ FIRST POST)

[TwolvesFanRome]

I would be very happy with Simmons but please don't let go McDaniels....

[packforfreedom]

I would be very happy with Simmons but please don't let go McDaniels....

It would be nice but I think it's almost impossible. We actually might get Simmons, but it will be more expensive than many people on this board think.

I'd say that Beas, Prince or Bev, a couple of 1sts or swaps, McDaniels or Naz is the price we'd need to pay. Maybe even Dlo instead of one of the assets mentioned before.

[SO_MONEY]

I would be very happy with Simmons but please don't let go McDaniels....

It would be nice but I think it's almost impossible. We actually might get Simmons, but it will be more expensive than many people on this board think.

I'd say that Beas, Prince or Bev, a couple of 1sts or swaps, McDaniels or Naz is the price we'd need to pay. Maybe even Dlo instead of one of the assets mentioned before.

I think it will be less than what many on this board think.

I understand it, posters are attributing star value to him, I don't think he has star value. His numbers, lack of development and large contract limit his value significantly, so what you are paying for is an elite multiple position defender which can bring in good value, especially if they have a reasonable market to below market contract... generally those players can shoot, with Simmons it is a more ancillary skill-set, playmaking at a unique physical profile.

We will see, but some of these offers are ridiculous and if he has anything close to that value, you should trade Towns and build around ANT.

[_AIJ_]

So can the trade be announced if Prince or Beverley were included or do they have to wait after sep 12, or oct 1?

[shrink]

It would be nice but I think it's almost impossible. We actually might get Simmons, but it will be more expensive than many people on this board think.

I'd say that Beas, Prince or Bev, a couple of 1sts or swaps, McDaniels or Naz is the price we'd need to pay. Maybe even Dlo instead of one of the assets mentioned before.

I think it will be less than what many on this board think.

I understand it, posters are attributing star value to him, I don't think he has star value. His numbers, lack of development and large contract limit his value significantly, so what you are paying for is an elite multiple position defender which can bring in good value, especially if they have a reasonable market to below market contract... generally those players can shoot, with Simmons it is a more ancillary skill-set, playmaking at a unique physical profile.

We will see, but some of these offers are ridiculous and if he has anything close to that value, you should trade Towns and build around ANT.

My standard economics thinking in these situations are:

1. Can the original team keep him? I think that’s an emphatic “no!”

2. Do superstars that need to be traded get back full value? That’s a “rarely” because …

3. Is there a bidding war? I would say that’s very unlikely. If Morey had made the trade earlier, teams would still have assets and minutes. By waiting this long, most teams have already built their teams, committing money and roles to other players.

Now personally, I don’t think he will continue to be a superstar. I don’t think he’s going to suddenly fix his problems, and his inability and unwillingness to shoot free throws will make him a target in the future for “hack-a-ben,” and I don’t think he has the confidence to deal with that. But even if I’m wrong, and he is considered a superstar, I think most of these offers are too high, just for the three standard economic reasons I already listed.

[TaylorTag]

Beasely, Beverly, McDaniels, Unprotected 2022 FRP, 2022 SRP (Washington).

I wouldn't offer more than this, and because of that, I think Toronto might beat us -- Toronto fans are throwing out Siakam plus other attractive assets, which I think beats our package.

I don't want to give up D'Lo for Simmons.

[breatnach]

I think they can announce an agreement, but it can only formally be concluded after those dates. At least that was the case with the Wiggins - Love trade.

[SO_MONEY]

So can the trade be announced if Prince or Beverley were included or do they have to wait after sep 12, or oct 1?

An agreed upon trade could be leaked by the press, but not announced by the teams.

[Klomp]

The Sixers screwed this up big. Throwing Simmons under the bus was the wrong move, really backed them in a corner. The way to play this was to support him all the way, look for the best trade possible even if it took the deadline, and then deal him at an optimal time. Now they have all this pressure.

Yet we still have people giving up 2 firsts and McDaniels

DLo and Beasley for Simmons straight up.

Yet we still have people giving up Russell.

[SO_MONEY]

It would be nice but I think it's almost impossible. We actually might get Simmons, but it will be more expensive than many people on this board think.

I'd say that Beas, Prince or Bev, a couple of 1sts or swaps, McDaniels or Naz is the price we'd need to pay. Maybe even Dlo instead of one of the assets mentioned before.

I think it will be less than what many on this board think.

I understand it, posters are attributing star value to him, I don't think he has star value. His numbers, lack of development and large contract limit his value significantly, so what you are paying for is an elite multiple position defender which can bring in good value, especially if they have a reasonable market to below market contract... generally those players can shoot, with Simmons it is a more ancillary skill-set, playmaking at a unique physical profile.

We will see, but some of these offers are ridiculous and if he has anything close to that value, you should trade Towns and build around ANT.

My standard economics thinking in these situations are:

1. Can the original team keep him? I think that’s an emphatic “no!”

2. Do superstars that need to be traded get back full value? That’s a “rarely” because …

3. Is there a bidding war? I would say that’s very unlikely. If Morey had made the trade earlier, teams would still have assets and minutes. By waiting this long, most teams have already built their teams, committing money and roles to other players.

Now personally, I don’t think he will continue to be a superstar. I don’t think he’s going to suddenly fix his problems, and his inability and unwillingness to shoot free throws will make him a target in the future for “hack-a-ben,” and I don’t think he has the confidence to deal with that. But even if I’m wrong, and he is considered a superstar, I think most of these offers are too high, just for the three standard economic reasons I already listed.

Simmons has many factors working against him to drive interest, red flags, fit, contract ect... Philadelphia has many factors working against them driving interest Klutch, set rosters, trade restrictions, salary matching ect...

A 14/7/7 non-shooing PG is not a star.

A 14/7/7 non-shooing PF is not a star.

His defense doesn't change that.

He is a good to very good player who is vastly overpaid.

But, but he has won a bunch of subjective accolades...good for him.

[Klomp]

I think PHI would probably prefer Beverly over Prince (who make pretty much the same), but I agree with the rest.

Good for them. I'm trying to keep Beverley if possible.

[jpatrick]

Beasely, Beverly, McDaniels, Unprotected 2022 FRP, 2022 SRP (Washington).

I wouldn't offer more than this, and because of that, I think Toronto might beat us -- Toronto fans are throwing out Siakam plus other attractive assets, which I think beats our package.

I don't want to give up D'Lo for Simmons.

Raptors don’t make sense from a fit perspective. Just don’t see it. OG, Simmons, and Scottie Barnes don’t fit.

I think this deal is close to our offer. I’d guess Bev, Beasley, McDaniels, and two lightly protected FRPs (maybe top four).

I would give up another pick and swaps to keep McDaniels.

[SO_MONEY]

I think PHI would probably prefer Beverly over Prince (who make pretty much the same), but I agree with the rest.

Good for them. I'm trying to keep Beverley if possible.

If say McDaniels is outgoing, they almost need to keep Prince...just saying. But I think we want to keep him and Prince would be a good part of salary matching.

[fattymcgee]

I think it will be less than what many on this board think.

I understand it, posters are attributing star value to him, I don't think he has star value. His numbers, lack of development and large contract limit his value significantly, so what you are paying for is an elite multiple position defender which can bring in good value, especially if they have a reasonable market to below market contract... generally those players can shoot, with Simmons it is a more ancillary skill-set, playmaking at a unique physical profile.

We will see, but some of these offers are ridiculous and if he has anything close to that value, you should trade Towns and build around ANT.

My standard economics thinking in these situations are:

1. Can the original team keep him? I think that’s an emphatic “no!”

2. Do superstars that need to be traded get back full value? That’s a “rarely” because …

3. Is there a bidding war? I would say that’s very unlikely. If Morey had made the trade earlier, teams would still have assets and minutes. By waiting this long, most teams have already built their teams, committing money and roles to other players.

Now personally, I don’t think he will continue to be a superstar. I don’t think he’s going to suddenly fix his problems, and his inability and unwillingness to shoot free throws will make him a target in the future for “hack-a-ben,” and I don’t think he has the confidence to deal with that. But even if I’m wrong, and he is considered a superstar, I think most of these offers are too high, just for the three standard economic reasons I already listed.

Simmons has many factors working against him to drive interest, red flags, fit, contract ect... Philadelphia has many factors working against them driving interest Klutch, set rosters, trade restrictions, salary matching ect...

A 14/7/7 non-shooing PG is not a star.

A 14/7/7 non-shooing PF is not a star.

His defense doesn't change that.

He is a good to very good player who is vastly overpaid.

But, but he has won a bunch of subjective accolades...good for him.

Ben has better stats than Pippen at the same age.
Was Kirilenko not a star?

[SO_MONEY]

My standard economics thinking in these situations are:

1. Can the original team keep him? I think that’s an emphatic “no!”

2. Do superstars that need to be traded get back full value? That’s a “rarely” because …

3. Is there a bidding war? I would say that’s very unlikely. If Morey had made the trade earlier, teams would still have assets and minutes. By waiting this long, most teams have already built their teams, committing money and roles to other players.

Now personally, I don’t think he will continue to be a superstar. I don’t think he’s going to suddenly fix his problems, and his inability and unwillingness to shoot free throws will make him a target in the future for “hack-a-ben,” and I don’t think he has the confidence to deal with that. But even if I’m wrong, and he is considered a superstar, I think most of these offers are too high, just for the three standard economic reasons I already listed.

Simmons has many factors working against him to drive interest, red flags, fit, contract ect... Philadelphia has many factors working against them driving interest Klutch, set rosters, trade restrictions, salary matching ect...

A 14/7/7 non-shooing PG is not a star.

A 14/7/7 non-shooing PF is not a star.

His defense doesn't change that.

He is a good to very good player who is vastly overpaid.

But, but he has won a bunch of subjective accolades...good for him.

Ben has better stats than Pippen at the same age.
Was Kirilenko not a star?

No AK-47 was not a star.

McDaniels also has better stats than Pippen...

[_AIJ_]

:x

So can the trade be announced if Prince or Beverley were included or do they have to wait after sep 12, or oct 1?

An agreed upon trade could be leaked by the press, but not announced by the teams.

I see. A lot of things can still happen even if they agreed on a trade, they can still back out from the deal. Is that correct?

[Macwolf527]

I have a strong feeling some team is going to come out of the wild blue to grab Simmons with a crazy offer. Someone like OKC, who has a history of coming out of nowhere.

With all of the drama around Philly right now, I would step back if I were the Wolves. We have a lot of good pieces, although not prime, still good, that can make some noise at the deadline, even if the Simmons trade does not pan out.

Plus, my gut tells me Morey is in for a mess come training camp and may be more willing to deal for something sensible versus the “Universe” he’s seeking right now.

[SO_MONEY]

:x

So can the trade be announced if Prince or Beverley were included or do they have to wait after sep 12, or oct 1?

An agreed upon trade could be leaked by the press, but not announced by the teams.

I see. A lot of things can still happen even if they agreed on a trade, they can still back out from the deal. Is that correct?

Well, generally that wouldn't happen, not that it couldn't. If it happens once effectively that GM would be blackballed. At this point I wouldn't put it past Morey, what does he have to lose? He is a laughing stock. But still unlikely, like really, really unlikely.

[NebWolvesFan]

I think PHI would probably prefer Beverly over Prince (who make pretty much the same), but I agree with the rest.

Good for them. I'm trying to keep Beverley if possible.

Philly needs to move Simmons in the next two weeks. There is no way they wait until October to move him. Beverley is staying in Minnesota. Waiting on Beverley isn't worth a media day circus if Simmons hasn't been traded by that point.

[SO_MONEY]

I have a strong feeling some team is going to come out of the wild blue to grab Simmons with a crazy offer. Someone like OKC, who has a history of coming out of nowhere.

With all of the drama around Philly right now, I would step back if I were the Wolves. We have a lot of good pieces, although not prime, still good, that can make some noise at the deadline, even if the Simmons trade does not pan out.

Plus, my gut tells me Morey is in for a mess come training camp and may be more willing to deal for something sensible versus the “Universe” he’s seeking right now.

Ummm. OKC doesn't want to take on his salary. I would say there is a good chance SGA gets traded in the relative short-term. Completely different direction than they are going.