Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition)

[Slim Tubby]

I’m nervous as a fan that Gupta includes Ant in the deal. I’d be paying a lot more attention to the Wild and Gopher Hoops if that happens.

I don't think there is any reason to worry about this.

You owe me a bottle of Don Julio if you’re wrong.


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[KGdaBom]

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In this case he is being a bit too bitter IMO. Embiid sure. The coach sure. However, to decline to even have his teammates come and meet with him is harsh.

[Macwolf527]

I hate the idea of trading both DLo and Beasley. We really need that 1 high tier shooter in the back-court. I’d rather see McDaniels leaving than Beasley, Beasley is more needed if we get Simmons.

DLo makes more sense to trade of the two, taking contracts into consideration, to me it’s insane how much he’s overvalued on this board: an awful defender, can’t drive, can’t stay healthy, is bound to make a couple of awful turnovers almost every game. We wouldn’t need a closer like DLo if DLo was a better player until cluch time. Ant is supposed to transition into being our closer anyway.

I reckon that Wood or Grant will be in a 3 team trade, with us sending a couple of top 10 protected 1sts plus McDaniels or more hopefully but not reaistically Bolmaro to that 3rd team.

I guarantee you that if we don’t take Simmons and some other team does, you’ll see Simmons taking that team to the playoffs while we suck donkey balls with no defense and no rebounding whatsoever for yet another year. We will need Ant to play like DWade if we want to see the playoffs without Simmons.

I would agree with you on Beasley if another facet of his game stood out, like playmaking or defense. I’m also concerned that his scoring increases did not translate to wins for the Wolves. My take on him is that his best role is as a bench spark plug as Denver used him. Whereas McDaniels’ game is more well rounded. Finch praises his passing and from the first time I saw him play, I knew he could put the ball on the floor. Add all of that to the defensive acumen he’s already demonstrated and you have a very special player in the making. McDaniel ceiling is so much higher than Beasley. I think Beasley is who he is for the most part with gradual increases as a possibility.

[Macwolf527]

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In this case he is being a bit too bitter IMO. Embiid sure. The coach sure. However, to decline to even have his teammates come and meet with him is harsh.

I think Embiid was one of those players planning to make the trip, so I think he’s justified. But if you’re really his friend and your intentions are pure, why do you need an invitation (coming from Harris and Thybulle’s vantage point). I think him declining it was the right move. To me, it was just another move to look out for the Sixers organization and not Ben. It would have to be if they had the approval to use the plane.

I don’t agree with Ben’s approach from the beginning, because I feel like he should have met there challenges head on. However it’s obvious they’re planning to move on from him, from the time they went after Harden, and the continual efforts to go after Lilliard and Beal. If he’s dug in, he should stay dug in, and that’s entirely from a business standpoint. Whatever team you end up with, you don’t want their assets ramshackled by your former team.

[FinnTheHuman]

I hate the idea of trading both DLo and Beasley. We really need that 1 high tier shooter in the back-court. I’d rather see McDaniels leaving than Beasley, Beasley is more needed if we get Simmons.

DLo makes more sense to trade of the two, taking contracts into consideration, to me it’s insane how much he’s overvalued on this board: an awful defender, can’t drive, can’t stay healthy, is bound to make a couple of awful turnovers almost every game. We wouldn’t need a closer like DLo if DLo was a better player until cluch time. Ant is supposed to transition into being our closer anyway.

I reckon that Wood or Grant will be in a 3 team trade, with us sending a couple of top 10 protected 1sts plus McDaniels or more hopefully but not reaistically Bolmaro to that 3rd team.

I guarantee you that if we don’t take Simmons and some other team does, you’ll see Simmons taking that team to the playoffs while we suck donkey balls with no defense and no rebounding whatsoever for yet another year. We will need Ant to play like DWade if we want to see the playoffs without Simmons.

I would agree with you on Beasley if another facet of his game stood out, like playmaking or defense. I’m also concerned that his scoring increases did not translate to wins for the Wolves. My take on him is that his best role is as a bench spark plug as Denver used him. Whereas McDaniels’ game is more well rounded. Finch praises his passing and from the first time I saw him play, I knew he could put the ball on the floor. Add all of that to the defensive acumen he’s already demonstrated and you have a very special player in the making. McDaniel ceiling is so much higher than Beasley. I think Beasley is who he is for the most part with gradual increases as a possibility.

I agree that McD is the better asset of the two long-term, but for the next 2 seasons, if we land Simmons, we need that guy who can bring value as a high volume 3pt shooter off the ball, and McDaniels is not that. Moving both DLo and Beasley means we go from one of the best 3pt shooting teams in the league to one of the worst.

So, while there are good reasons to keep McDaniels over Beasley, there are good reasons to do the reverse too, and on top of that I think it's not realistic to execute the Simmons trade while keeping McDaniels, because the 3rd team wants a super-young asset in their rebuild, Beasley doesn't fit the timelines of teams like Houston or Detroit, and guys like Grant and Wood have enough value to warrant a young asset like McDaniels + a couple of lottery protected 1sts back.

[younggunsmn]

I think a key could be finding a 3rd team for Beasley or Russell, to bring in a player Philly likes better.
Beasley to Atlanta and Bogdonovic to Philly? What are some possibilities? Cmon trade machine Gupta, let's go!

[Macwolf527]

I think a key could be finding a 3rd team for Beasley or Russell, to bring in a player Philly likes better.
Beasley to Atlanta and Bogdonovic to Philly? What are some possibilities? Cmon trade machine Gupta, let's go!

Funny you should mention Atlanta because I always thought of them as the perfect third team to make the trade work. They have an interesting mix of young and old veteran players. Plus, my thought was always that an Eastern conference team would have the incentive to get Simmons out of the conference.

[Klomp]

I think a key could be finding a 3rd team for Beasley or Russell, to bring in a player Philly likes better.
Beasley to Atlanta and Bogdonovic to Philly? What are some possibilities? Cmon trade machine Gupta, let's go!

Funny you should mention Atlanta because I always thought of them as the perfect third team to make the trade work. They have an interesting mix of young and old veteran players. Plus, my thought was always that an Eastern conference team would have the incentive to get Simmons out of the conference.

The most difficult part of that equation is that Philadelphia likely wants a PG. I don't think Atlanta is trading Trae Young....

[shrink]

In this case he is being a bit too bitter IMO. Embiid sure. The coach sure. However, to decline to even have his teammates come and meet with him is harsh.

I get what you’re saying, but I think he’s trying to avoid the DeAndre Jordan situations, where his teammates “locked him in his house” until he agreed not to honor his agreement to join Dallas.

If they are true friends, they will come visit him after this is over, when they don’t benefit from trying to talk him into something he doesn’t want.

[life_saver]

I don't think our Front office is that stupid enough to include Ant in any deal involving Simmons

[Note30]

I think a key could be finding a 3rd team for Beasley or Russell, to bring in a player Philly likes better.
Beasley to Atlanta and Bogdonovic to Philly? What are some possibilities? Cmon trade machine Gupta, let's go!

Funny you should mention Atlanta because I always thought of them as the perfect third team to make the trade work. They have an interesting mix of young and old veteran players. Plus, my thought was always that an Eastern conference team would have the incentive to get Simmons out of the conference.

The most difficult part of that equation is that Philadelphia likely wants a PG. I don't think Atlanta is trading Trae Young....

PHI in: Bogdanovic, Beverley, Hunter
MIN in: Simmons
ATL in: Beasley, Reid, Okogie, Nowell, one FRP unprotected, one pick swap, 5 second round picks

PHI lineup:
Bev/Maxey
Bogdanovic/Curry
Green/Hunter
Harris / Niang
Embiid/ Drummond

Not a championship squad but a good enough squad to drive the team past where it was i.e. the second round.

ATL reloads with similar talent but accrues assets where it has depth.

Young / Wright / Nowell
Beasley / Lou Will
Heurter / Okogie / Reddish
Collins / Gallinari
Capela / Reid / Dieng

DLo / McLaughlin
Ant / Bolmaro
McDaniels / Prince
Simmons / Vanderbilt
KAT / Knight

Sign Isiaih Thomas/Ray Adriciano and Bismack Biyombo and we have a little bit more depth.

[theGreatRC]

KAT and Ant are off the table. If one of those 2 go, we aren't making the playoffs with Ben, so what's the point of even getting him?

[TwolvesFanRome]

I don't think our Front office is that stupid enough to include Ant in any deal involving Simmons

A M E N

[minimus]

I think a key could be finding a 3rd team for Beasley or Russell, to bring in a player Philly likes better.
Beasley to Atlanta and Bogdonovic to Philly? What are some possibilities? Cmon trade machine Gupta, let's go!

Funny you should mention Atlanta because I always thought of them as the perfect third team to make the trade work. They have an interesting mix of young and old veteran players. Plus, my thought was always that an Eastern conference team would have the incentive to get Simmons out of the conference.

The most difficult part of that equation is that Philadelphia likely wants a PG. I don't think Atlanta is trading Trae Young....

I really think they have only one option - Cleveland who have two promising PG in Garland and Sexton.

PHI IN: Sexton, Prince, Layman, Favors
PHI OUT: Simmons
Why for PHI: get starting PG, two expiring contracts

CLE IN: Beasley, Okogie
CLE OUT: Love, Sexton
Why for CLE: get an elite shooter, get rid of Love contract

OKC IN: Love, MIN 2 FRPs
OKC OUT: Favors
Why for OKC: get more picks

MIN IN: Simmons
MIN OUT: Beasley, Prince, Layman, Okogie, 2 FRPs

[Dewey]

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In this case he is being a bit too bitter IMO. Embiid sure. The coach sure. However, to decline to even have his teammates come and meet with him is harsh.

Ben is bitter and acting childish while the team is trying to amend its image and seemingly making it worse. Morrey has to get a healthy return or the fans will tar and feather him. Just does not seem like a scenario that’s gonna help us take a step forward versus 2 steps back.

[Rastas]

Funny you should mention Atlanta because I always thought of them as the perfect third team to make the trade work. They have an interesting mix of young and old veteran players. Plus, my thought was always that an Eastern conference team would have the incentive to get Simmons out of the conference.

The most difficult part of that equation is that Philadelphia likely wants a PG. I don't think Atlanta is trading Trae Young....

I really think they have only one option - Cleveland who have two promising PG in Garland and Sexton.

PHI IN: Sexton, Prince, Layman, Favors
PHI OUT: Simmons
Why for PHI: get starting PG, two expiring contracts

CLE IN: Beasley, Okogie
CLE OUT: Love, Sexton
Why for CLE: get an elite shooter, get rid of Love contract

OKC IN: Love, MIN 2 FRPs
OKC OUT: Favors
Why for OKC: get more picks

MIN IN: Simmons
MIN OUT: Beasley, Prince, Layman, Okogie, 2 FRPs

Problem with that Trade is Cav's are just as determined to get Ben as you guys are.
Go try in NO for Ingram or OKC for SGA , Philly will probably add assets as well.

[shrink]

Problem with that Trade is Cav's are just as determined to get Ben as you guys are.
Go try in NO for Ingram or OKC for SGA , Philly will probably add assets as well.

What a good post! Clear and concise, and he adds an idea to help improve the trade!

Back when I started at RealGM many years ago, the board had a much different flavor. When someone would post a trade, we would all work collaboratively, giving our opinions on how to improve it. The goal was for all of us RealGM posters, wherever our team loyalties lie, would try to create the most realistic trade - perhaps even a trade that we might see happen in real life.

Since those times, the board has changed for the worst. Partisan fans pump up the value of the players on their own team, and insult players on other teams. Many posters think a one line response, “Nope” is a worthwhile contribution. Posters blur the line between the facts about an organization and their personal opinions. Many seem to think they are actual GM’s, and that if they lie and deceive some other internet poster into a bad deal, it somehow benefits their actual team.

When I saw Rastas post, it made me smile. I’m not surprised he’s been here since 2012.

[Klomp]

Problem with that Trade is Cav's are just as determined to get Ben as you guys are.
Go try in NO for Ingram or OKC for SGA , Philly will probably add assets as well.

I was going through some teams in my head, and OKC was one that definitely seemed like a possibility. OKC never shies away from a trade, especially one where they can accumulate more picks. I think Presti would like working with a new GM, because he thinks he can probably fleece us (I expect more third team options to become available because of this).

[Nick K]

Incidentally, I wouldn’t pay that for Simmons. I think MIN and PHI would both prefer replacing McDaniels with another MIN 1st. That said, I don’t think Simmons is worth three 1sts at this point - he’s just not that level of a player.

If Robert Covington was worth two 1sts, then Ben Simmons is certainly worth three firsts.

RoCo was worth two non-lotto firsts. If you want to offer three lotto-protected 1sts for Ben, I’m ok with that.

If we follow this logic, then RoCo and Saric are also worth Jimmy Butler. Butler > Simmons.

Incidentally, I think RoCo is regularly undervalued by fans, and Simmons gets overvalued because of his celebrity. Simmons can distribute, but RoCo could shoot three’s, and his contract cost about a third of Simmons. Both were 1st team All Defense, and neither is All NBA now. RoCo also wasn’t refusing to play.

You make way too much sense shrink.

[Nick K]

I can live with Beasley/McDaniels and multiple picks as in 2 lightly protected FRPs. I would much rather do that than include Russell.

The more I think about it, I’m not sure I want to move Russell or McDaniels for Simmons. Russell is one of the best closers in the league. I think he’s more suited to be in the SG spot on the defensive side of the ball. I get the feeling that McDaniels’ game is really going to take off this year. I would move him with other players outside of Russell, but not with a bunch of picks included, maybe one top 5 protected pick at the most. Anything more than 1 pick, would have to have lottery protections on them and definitely no more than 2 picks total. I would rather ride with the squad as is versus sending out that many assets.

I’m with you on this, Mac. Outside of a high level PF, I like the shooting and balance of the current roster. I think we can get enough from McD, Prince and Vando at the 4 to compete for the playoffs. It sure does seem like all the steam is pointing to Ben coming here, though.

I’m nervous as a fan that Gupta includes Ant in the deal. I’d be paying a lot more attention to the Wild and Gopher Hoops if that happens.


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If Gupta trades Ant for Simmons I'll disown the team. He's not going to do that.