Adelman wants a "very aggressive" off season

[Krapinsky]

Your reliance on these stats is flawed. By this logic Joakim Noah is a bad defender since Chicago is 7 points better defensively when he is of the court. Your stats ignore Wallace's impact and the Noah stats ignore Asik/Gibson's impact, among other rotation players.

Your understanding of these stats is the problem.

Ask any Bulls fan who's defense is better, Asik's or Noah's. Then you'll figure out why Chicago is better defensively when Noah is on the bench.

I'm just showing you that year in and year out when Batum is on the floor Portland's defense is terrible. And there's no arguing it either.

You either didn't read my post or failed to comprehend. The fact that Chicago is better defensively with Noah on the bench (true) does not make Noah a bad defender. In fact, it doesn't say anything about Noah defensively, only that the Bulls second unit (w/ Asik) is better defensively then the first unit (w/ Noah), and it certainly does not help you compare Noah to other defensive centers.

[Narf]

You either didn't read my post or failed to comprehend. The fact that Chicago is better defensively with Noah on the bench (true) does not make Noah a bad defender. In fact, it doesn't say anything about Noah defensively, only that the Bulls second unit (w/ Asik) is better defensively then the first unit (w/ Noah), and it certainly does not help you compare Noah to other defensive centers.

I comprehend just fine.
Batum is not a good defender. 102 points per 100 possessions (Noah) good. 110 per 100 possessions (Batum) bad. I wasn't showing you the +/-, I was showing you that Batum is a consistently overrated defender regardless of how good or bad the rest of his team is. And not just overrated, but poor. He's a poor defender.

Also, Batum is guarding the other team's SF with Wes Matthews guarding the SG. Matthews is not guarding Artest while Batum guards Kobe.

[NewWolvesOrder]

Williams and Darko for Varejao

Wes for Prince

Webster, Miller and Utah and Mem' pick for Iguodala.



Rubio/Ridnour
Iggy/Barea
Prince/Iggy/Tolliver
Love/Vareajao/Tolliver
Pekovic/Varejao


Is it good enough for a deep playoff run?

[moss_is_1]

Williams and Darko for Varejao

Wes for Prince

Webster, Miller and Utah and Mem' pick for Iguodala.



Rubio/Ridnour
Iggy/Barea
Prince/Iggy/Tolliver
Love/Vareajao/Tolliver
Pekovic/Varejao


Is it good enough for a deep playoff run?

DId you mix up Webster / Miller with Williams? No way in Hell I trade Derrick Williams for AV

[NewWolvesOrder]

To pawn a negative(Darko) you need to combine it with something good(Williams) to get a positive return. Besides, AV is the kind of big man that we need to become a respectable playoff team.

[moss_is_1]

We shouldn't have to add value to dump Darko, we can just amnesty him.

[NewWolvesOrder]

We shouldn't have to add value to dump Darko, we can just amnesty him.

I think Taylor will take any trade before amnesty and AV is exactly the type of player Adelman would love.

[Grits n Gravy]

To pawn a negative(Darko) you need to combine it with something good(Williams) to get a positive return. Besides, AV is the kind of big man that we need to become a respectable playoff team.

he's earning 10 million or so a year isn't he? can we afford to pay that for a bench guy with pek coming up for an extension next year? i think we need to invest funds in wings rather than more front court help where we are pretty set imo

[NewWolvesOrder]

To pawn a negative(Darko) you need to combine it with something good(Williams) to get a positive return. Besides, AV is the kind of big man that we need to become a respectable playoff team.

he's earning 10 million or so a year isn't he? can we afford to pay that for a bench guy with pek coming up for an extension next year? i think we need to invest funds in wings rather than more front court help where we are pretty set imo

8,368,182 9,036,364 9,704,595 for the next 3 seasons, he never reaches 10 mil. His impact is more significant than any obtainable wing.

[Narf]

To pawn a negative(Darko) you need to combine it with something good(Williams) to get a positive return. Besides, AV is the kind of big man that we need to become a respectable playoff team.

he's earning 10 million or so a year isn't he? can we afford to pay that for a bench guy with pek coming up for an extension next year? i think we need to invest funds in wings rather than more front court help where we are pretty set imo

8,368,182 9,036,364 9,704,595 for the next 3 seasons, he never reaches 10 mil. His impact is more significant than any obtainable wing.

Bigger impact than Iggy?

[NewWolvesOrder]

Yes, i believe so.

Iggy is the guy who's grossly overpaid, AV is paid just about right.

[Krapinsky]

I comprehend just fine.
Batum is not a good defender. 102 points per 100 possessions (Noah) good. 110 per 100 possessions (Batum) bad. I wasn't showing you the +/-, I was showing you that Batum is a consistently overrated defender regardless of how good or bad the rest of his team is. And not just overrated, but poor. He's a poor defender.

Agree to disagree then.

Also, Batum is guarding the other team's SF with Wes Matthews guarding the SG. Matthews is not guarding Artest while Batum guards Kobe.

Batum has been guarding Kobe most of the time they face face off dating back to 2010. Batum doesn't play as many minutes as Kobe so Matthews will get matched up with him here and there.

[NewWolvesOrder]

A few DW trades

DW, Darko for Prince and their pick

DW for Matthews and blazers pick

[moss_is_1]

I just don't see the point in trading D-will unless we are packaging him with someone else. No need to break him down, IMO.

[NewWolvesOrder]

So is this team good enough to make noise?

Rubio/Ridnour
Iggy/Barea
Prince/Iggy/Tolliver
Love/Vareajao/Tolliver
Pekovic/Varejao

[AQuintus]

So is this team good enough to make noise?

Rubio/Ridnour
Iggy/Barea
Prince/Iggy/Tolliver
Love/Vareajao/Tolliver
Pekovic/Varejao

Probably not. Iggy and Prince is really redundant, and so is Barea and Ridnour. Assuming we can get Iggy without giving up Williams, we'd be much better off trading Williams for a SG like Eric Gordon or Bradley Beal.

Assuming that Portland's pick (from New Jersey) is in line to get Beal, then a deal of Williams (plus Utah's pick) for Matthews and the New Jersey pick would be good, though It would probably have to be a 3 team deal. As far as Prince + Detroit's pick, even if it is in line for Beal, I don't think I'd do it. As much as I like Prince, I don't think that his play justifies his contract, so I'd consider him negative value.

Rubio/ Barea
Matthews/ Beal
Iggy/ Matthews
Love/ ??? (Ridnour trade and/or cap space)
Pekovic/ ??? (Ridnour trade and/or cap space) ...

... would probably be a pretty good team.

[NewWolvesOrder]

Portland would never trade Matthews and Beal for Williams and a mid pick(which will have to go to Philly anyway), who will be their SG? Your lineup lack a good big. Varejao is the man. And how Iggy and Prince are redundant?

[AQuintus]

Portland would never trade Matthews and Beal for Williams and a mid pick(which will have to go to Philly anyway), who will be their SG?

Probably not, but that's the only way I'd do that trade.

Your lineup lack a good big.

Love and Pekovic?

Varejao is the man.

Love - 36 mpg
Pekovic - 33 mpg

That leaves a maximum of 27 mpg for Varejao; that's not enough to justify his contract.

And how Iggy and Prince are redundant?

They're both SFs, neither is a great outside shooter, and neither is a scoring threat. They're both defensive role-players, extremely good role-players (especially Iggy), but role-players nonetheless. We need a scoring threat on the wings to take pressure off of Love and Pek.

[NewWolvesOrder]

Your lineup lack a good big.

Love and Pekovic?

So you want to get through the season and playoffs just with 2 good bigs?

Varejao is the man.

Love - 36 mpg
Pekovic - 33 mpg

That leaves a maximum of 27 mpg for Varejao; that's not enough to justify his contract.

Love 36, Pek 30, AV 30 if everybody healthy but it's not realistic, so their mpg will be higher

And how Iggy and Prince are redundant?

They're both SFs, neither is a great outside shooter, and neither is a scoring threat. They're both defensive role-players, extremely good role-players (especially Iggy), but role-players nonetheless. We need a scoring threat on the wings to take pressure off of Love and Pek.

Iggy is almost 40% 3pts this season, Prince is 36,5%, they have been better than anything we had bar Beasley. iguodala can get you 15 ppg easily, so can Prince.

[Breakdown777]

They're both SFs, neither is a great outside shooter, and neither is a scoring threat. They're both defensive role-players, extremely good role-players (especially Iggy), but role-players nonetheless. We need a scoring threat on the wings to take pressure off of Love and Pek.

Iggy can be a scoring threat, especially if Rubio is opening things up for everyone.
I think that if Wes can unlearn his mechanics this year and start canning 3's like his rookie season, having Iggy/Wes on the wings could be very solid methinks. But then again, I'm a Wes believer and almost everyone here hates him.