Time for Saunders to go?

[Mamba4Goat]

I think y’all need some perspective. I can’t remember who joked about it, but from the start of last year til now it’s basically been 3 different Wolves teams. The Wiggs team, the post deadline team that only had 14 games, mostly without KAT, and the current roster that for the most part had 9 months off. There’s going to be a lot of miscues and rust. Add in KATs nightmare offseason and Juancho being away doing a movie and it’s understandable if they’re not in the greatest shape. To make everything look worse, Saunders let Beas/D’Lo guard Ja because they wanted to which made the defense a nightmare. It looks a lot better when it’s JO/JC with Beas and Russell hidden more. Beas even looks improved when he’s guarding more realistic players.

Once the season starts, rust is shaken off, this team has gelled, and Saunders isn’t humoring players on defense this team will look a lot better. Maybe not playoff better but better nonetheless. I wouldn’t be shocked if the Solves struggle out the gate and then catch fire to end the season.

[KGdaBom]

The problem is, I think fans are treating this roster like a finished product.....as if Rosas and Saunders put together this collection of players believing it will win the NBA championship in 2021.

Except that's not the case at all. Rosas knows it. Saunders knows it. But a number of fans don't seem to understand that notion.

I don't think that's it at all, Klomp. If you recall the thread on 2021 projections, didn't the majority feel the team would compete for the 9th or 10th spot in the Western Conference (play-in game)?

I'm confident we will do that or better.

[Battletrigger]

I am not a fan of the buddy type of coaching, I train six days a week, and sometimes at the same time that my city basketball team and never watched a so bro coach.

You have to find a balance between the hairdryer type and one so soft like the Saunders one.

Once said, Id never change a coach for two preseason games, it's ridiculous.

[Killboard]

But it's not about the anecdotes. It's not Beasley or KAT shooting low percentages. It's not about Ricky having a low A/TO ratio in two preseason games. Nobody, absolutely nobody is talking about that. It's about how this team is built, what the rotation looks like to begin the season, and how we're seeing the same mistakes and flaws that have haunted this team and certain players for years.

My whole point is we haven't seen the median outcome of this roster so far, not even last season. Once those two are htting 40% of his 3s and Ricky shakes the rust off we are going to see where it lands. Is just that doesn't see fair judge them for his future failures, or the front office, for the past mistakes.

This does not mean have to agree with every move or embrace losing, it's about understanding that continuity and long term planning are valuable assets when going against teams who have it.

[Merc_Porto]

But it's not about the anecdotes. It's not Beasley or KAT shooting low percentages. It's not about Ricky having a low A/TO ratio in two preseason games. Nobody, absolutely nobody is talking about that. It's about how this team is built, what the rotation looks like to begin the season, and how we're seeing the same mistakes and flaws that have haunted this team and certain players for years.

My whole point is we haven't seen the median outcome of this roster so far, not even last season. Once those two are htting 40% of his 3s and Ricky shakes the rust off we are going to see where it lands. Is just that doesn't see fair judge them for his future failures, or the front office, for the past mistakes.

This does not mean have to agree with every move or embrace losing, it's about understanding that continuity and long term planning are valuable assets when going against teams who have it.

But you think is possible to succeed with a core of KAT - Beasley - Dlo (there is where the big money is) with great shooting but such a bad core of defenders sharing the court big minutes?

You been focused on the shooting but what about the defense...

Knowking and this is my personal opinion here that really bad defenders which is the case of this three rarely improve to a good level in that end of the floor.

[m2002brian]

There seem to be a lot of excuses for something that have nothing to do with the roster itself.

Our style of play is boring.
Who remembers rookie Rubio? That team wasn't all that great, probably worse shooting and about as young as this team. I might go as far to say that Kevin Love was better than KAT is now. Thats about it. Other than that, it was a pile of pieces smashed together without much vision....KAHN.

But that was FUN to watch and because the best passer creator on the team was the primary ball handler, we were competitive.

So if this year, this team doesn't do the right thing and give primary ball handling / creating responsibilities to the best choice (et hem... Rubio) then we are going to see a bunch of buddy ball between DLO and KAT. That won't be fun to watch. Multiple times the last game I saw DLO dribble dribble dribble, pull up mid 2 with someone wide open, one pass away, not even a skip pass. So annoying and inefficient.
The reason other teams shoot so well against us is because they get easy buckets early and that builds in game confidence fast and early. This is exactly what our team needs to do, weather is free throws, or finding the wide open man. Taking long 2 contested shots and playing iso ball won't be conducive to a successful season.

This season will decide Saunders' fate.
I never liked the cronyism, I don't think he's a great coach or even a good one. But if he does the right thing for the team and the fans and plays players where the should be, not where the buddy boys want them to be. Then we should at least be competitive and it will show he is in charge not the buddy boys.

[Klomp]

The problem is, I think fans are treating this roster like a finished product.....as if Rosas and Saunders put together this collection of players believing it will win the NBA championship in 2021.

Except that's not the case at all. Rosas knows it. Saunders knows it. But a number of fans don't seem to understand that notion.

You guys and the finished product.
How the hell you improve from here to one day become a contendor (not a treamdill playoff team) with the cap situation we have and the picks that we don't have.

Do you remember 2017 right? And the part where many people told that there was no room to improve from that point with the situation we were back then, especially the cap situation and also the roster and the way it was constructed.

This is a deja vu situation.

Rosas with the direction he took this off season put this franchise in a dangerous situation by relying 75M on 3 players that only are good on one end of the floor.

PLAYER DEVELOPMENT.

Was Giannis as good as a rookie as he is today? Was Garnett as good in 1995 as he was in 2003? No. They had to develop their games, to get stronger.

This is a total opposite situation as 2017. Yeah both teams had no cap room, but 2017's was tied up in 28-30 year olds who were basically finished products while ours today is tied into 24-25 year olds who can continue to get better. I know people don't like to talk about development, but that's the reality for small-market teams in the NBA.

[Note30]

The problem is, I think fans are treating this roster like a finished product.....as if Rosas and Saunders put together this collection of players believing it will win the NBA championship in 2021.

Except that's not the case at all. Rosas knows it. Saunders knows it. But a number of fans don't seem to understand that notion.

You guys and the finished product.
How the hell you improve from here to one day become a contendor (not a treamdill playoff team) with the cap situation we have and the picks that we don't have.

Do you remember 2017 right? And the part where many people told that there was no room to improve from that point with the situation we were back then, especially the cap situation and also the roster and the way it was constructed.

This is a deja vu situation.

Rosas with the direction he took this off season put this franchise in a dangerous situation by relying 75M on 3 players that only are good on one end of the floor.

PLAYER DEVELOPMENT.

Was Giannis as good as a rookie as he is today? Was Garnett as good in 1995 as he was in 2003? No. They had to develop their games, to get stronger.

This is a total opposite situation as 2017. Yeah both teams had no cap room, but 2017's was tied up in 28-30 year olds who were basically finished products while ours today is tied into 24-25 year olds who can continue to get better. I know people don't like to talk about development, but that's the reality for small-market teams in the NBA.

How much more development do you expect out of KAT and DLo?

[Sugarless]

You guys and the finished product.
How the hell you improve from here to one day become a contendor (not a treamdill playoff team) with the cap situation we have and the picks that we don't have.

Do you remember 2017 right? And the part where many people told that there was no room to improve from that point with the situation we were back then, especially the cap situation and also the roster and the way it was constructed.

This is a deja vu situation.

Rosas with the direction he took this off season put this franchise in a dangerous situation by relying 75M on 3 players that only are good on one end of the floor.

PLAYER DEVELOPMENT.

Was Giannis as good as a rookie as he is today? Was Garnett as good in 1995 as he was in 2003? No. They had to develop their games, to get stronger.

This is a total opposite situation as 2017. Yeah both teams had no cap room, but 2017's was tied up in 28-30 year olds who were basically finished products while ours today is tied into 24-25 year olds who can continue to get better. I know people don't like to talk about development, but that's the reality for small-market teams in the NBA.

How much more development do you expect out of KAT and DLo?

I've been hearing the same tune from the same guys here for longer than I can remember. Didn't get it years ago nor for the past few seasons, and they won't get it this time or in the future. It is what it is.

Here's hoping Saunders shows some sense to begin the season and starts rolling with a starting (and closing) five that is balanced and puts everyone in the best position FOR THE TEAM to succeed, and that he keeps them accountable. Do that, and despite the certain ups and downs we will enjoy the season, maybe fight for the play-in tournament. Keep the nonsense, and it's going to be another freaking long year.

[Klomp]

How much more development do you expect out of KAT and DLo?

Towns isn't going to shoot 20% from the field and 17% from 3-point.

Development isn't only about physical. Mentally, do you believe Towns is at his peak right now? Do you think he's just broken for the rest of his career? Or do you think there is growth and development that will occur over the season?

[wolfen]

For me, it's about what Saunders DOESN'T seem to value

OFFENSIVELY

-Player movement - Watch other good teams and you'll see it. Griz are great at it.
-Catch & go - Again, the griz are a perfect example of it. Players get the ball and do something meaningful with it right away (they don't pound the ball, wait for screens, go one on one excessively). Get it, move it, or drive it quickly.
-Penetrate to pass - Building on "Catch and go", when we DO have players attempt to penetrate, it's usually after the defense has been set, and it's usually an attempt to get their own shot, and that shot is often forced. Most penetrations should have the purpose of either moving the ball in general, drawing the defense, making the defense move, and finding teammates for shots. Again, broken record, but the Griz are great at this.
-Passing into the Post - It doesn't happen often, and it doesn't necessarily have to be for the post man to score, but of course that is one option. NOT doing so allows the defense to completely ignore defending anything 10 feet and in and instead, focus on defending the perimeter. This is big reason why, even though we should a lot of 3's, that we don't shoot a high percentage. KAT is a very good post scorer, but he is a good passer out of the post as well. Make the defense respect that. You'll get better looks for 3 in the process.

We can't really judge a lot of our guys as to IF they would be better players if these things were emphasized, we just don't ask them to do these things. For example, with Culver, I always expected that he would be a guy who would give some legitimate play-making and having a higher assist total. He was asked to do that in college, and he certainly did it. 3.7 apg his senior year, 1.7 apg as a pro. If the squad emphasized quick decisions with the ball, penetrating to pass (instead of always shooting), Culver could be a very good secondary play-maker. Edwards also has that potential, Okogie not so much, since he's a poor ball-handler.

Both KAT & D-Lo go through long stretches of living in the bizarro world and not having any consequences. Ball stopping, pounding the ball, not penetrating powerfully (moreso with D-Lo). I know they are the primary weapons, but unless you're a perennial all-star, be more decisive, move the ball, and lead by example.

DEFENSIVELY

-XXXX to be cont'd..

[PharmD]

There seem to be a lot of excuses for something that have nothing to do with the roster itself.

Our style of play is boring.
Who remembers rookie Rubio? That team wasn't all that great, probably worse shooting and about as young as this team. I might go as far to say that Kevin Love was better than KAT is now. Thats about it. Other than that, it was a pile of pieces smashed together without much vision....KAHN.

But that was FUN to watch and because the best passer creator on the team was the primary ball handler, we were competitive.

So if this year, this team doesn't do the right thing and give primary ball handling / creating responsibilities to the best choice (et hem... Rubio) then we are going to see a bunch of buddy ball between DLO and KAT. That won't be fun to watch. Multiple times the last game I saw DLO dribble dribble dribble, pull up mid 2 with someone wide open, one pass away, not even a skip pass. So annoying and inefficient.
The reason other teams shoot so well against us is because they get easy buckets early and that builds in game confidence fast and early. This is exactly what our team needs to do, weather is free throws, or finding the wide open man. Taking long 2 contested shots and playing iso ball won't be conducive to a successful season.

This season will decide Saunders' fate.
I never liked the cronyism, I don't think he's a great coach or even a good one. But if he does the right thing for the team and the fans and plays players where the should be, not where the buddy boys want them to be. Then we should at least be competitive and it will show he is in charge not the buddy boys.

Amazing post.

I think the entire plan on offense is to have DLo and KAT play a 2-man pick and roll every time down the floor while the other 3 players stand still at the arc spacing. As we've seen, it's pretty easy for the defense to force that into a DLo long 2 every time down. Not only is that boring as **** to watch, it's gonna be really hard to beat teams with off-the-dribble long 2s, even if DLo is good at them.

[Klomp]

Context that people need to remember.....

Read on Twitter

[Klomp]

I think this franchise right now has some similarities to Portland....the early years of Lillard and McCollum. They were reshaping their franchise around these two young guys with not great defense. They were competitive, but not really because the guys were so young and the team wasn't built to play defense. They didn't have a great path to improve supposedly without cap space. It took a few years of reshaping the roster but now this year might be their best group yet thanks to trades and development. The young guys are 30 and 29 now. Should they have blown everything up years ago when they weren't going anywhere by your standards?

[Merc_Porto]

The problem is, I think fans are treating this roster like a finished product.....as if Rosas and Saunders put together this collection of players believing it will win the NBA championship in 2021.

Except that's not the case at all. Rosas knows it. Saunders knows it. But a number of fans don't seem to understand that notion.

You guys and the finished product.
How the hell you improve from here to one day become a contendor (not a treamdill playoff team) with the cap situation we have and the picks that we don't have.

Do you remember 2017 right? And the part where many people told that there was no room to improve from that point with the situation we were back then, especially the cap situation and also the roster and the way it was constructed.

This is a deja vu situation.

Rosas with the direction he took this off season put this franchise in a dangerous situation by relying 75M on 3 players that only are good on one end of the floor.

PLAYER DEVELOPMENT.

Was Giannis as good as a rookie as he is today? Was Garnett as good in 1995 as he was in 2003? No. They had to develop their games, to get stronger.

This is a total opposite situation as 2017. Yeah both teams had no cap room, but 2017's was tied up in 28-30 year olds who were basically finished products while ours today is tied into 24-25 year olds who can continue to get better. I know people don't like to talk about development, but that's the reality for small-market teams in the NBA.

I knew you were going to talk about that and i respect because at this point we can only rely on that. Small-market teams also rely on draft picks something that we don't have.

The different from 2017 to 2020 is that first of all we don't have chip trades for a Jimmy Butler, second we don't have a Jimmy Butler and third we don't have our own draft pick. I say similiar situation but is kinda a worse situation IMO. And i just explain why, don't come with the negativity storie.

In 2017 Wiggins (as he was viewed back then) alone would got us Jimmy Butler without throwing a pick. I guess the only mistake i can't pointing out against Thibs.

[Merc_Porto]

I think this franchise right now has some similarities to Portland....the early years of Lillard and McCollum. They were reshaping their franchise around these two young guys with not great defense. They were competitive, but not really because the guys were so young and the team wasn't built to play defense. They didn't have a great path to improve supposedly without cap space. It took a few years of reshaping the roster but now this year might be their best group yet thanks to trades and development. The young guys are 30 and 29 now. Should they have blown everything up years ago when they weren't going anywhere by your standards?

You forgeting a lot of big things between those claims.

Like LaMarcus Aldridge, Nicolas Batum and Wesley Matthews.

[Note30]

How much more development do you expect out of KAT and DLo?

Towns isn't going to shoot 20% from the field and 17% from 3-point.

Development isn't only about physical. Mentally, do you believe Towns is at his peak right now? Do you think he's just broken for the rest of his career? Or do you think there is growth and development that will occur over the season?

But that's getting back to where he was. Not new developments.

[TheProdigy]

I'm going to reserve judgment until midway through this season. No team in the league has had more turnover since last season's trade deadline, so let's give him a chance.

[KGdaBom]

The problem is, I think fans are treating this roster like a finished product.....as if Rosas and Saunders put together this collection of players believing it will win the NBA championship in 2021.

Except that's not the case at all. Rosas knows it. Saunders knows it. But a number of fans don't seem to understand that notion.

You guys and the finished product.
How the hell you improve from here to one day become a contendor (not a treamdill playoff team) with the cap situation we have and the picks that we don't have.

Do you remember 2017 right? And the part where many people told that there was no room to improve from that point with the situation we were back then, especially the cap situation and also the roster and the way it was constructed.

This is a deja vu situation.

Rosas with the direction he took this off season put this franchise in a dangerous situation by relying 75M on 3 players that only are good on one end of the floor.

PLAYER DEVELOPMENT.

Was Giannis as good as a rookie as he is today? Was Garnett as good in 1995 as he was in 2003? No. They had to develop their games, to get stronger.

This is a total opposite situation as 2017. Yeah both teams had no cap room, but 2017's was tied up in 28-30 year olds who were basically finished products while ours today is tied into 24-25 year olds who can continue to get better. I know people don't like to talk about development, but that's the reality for small-market teams in the NBA.

KG was robbed of the MVP in 2003.

[Klomp]

The different from 2017 to 2020 is that first of all we don't have chip trades for a Jimmy Butler, second we don't have a Jimmy Butler and third we don't have our own draft pick. I say similiar situation but is kinda a worse situation IMO. And i just explain why, don't come with the negativity storie.

In 2017 Wiggins (as he was viewed back then) alone would got us Jimmy Butler without throwing a pick. I guess the only mistake i can't pointing out against Thibs.

Gotta find guys who need the right situation. Khris Middleton a perfect example. Was essentially a throw-in when Milwaukee acquired. Those are the types of trades we can make.