Is it time yet? To move on from Rosas?

[Calinks]

I was catching up on Dane Moore’s podcasts, and I think it should be mentioned that Rosas tried to solve the PF problem in free agency before the season. Supposedly he went after four players with the MLE, and couldn’t get traction with them. It sounds like a solid list to me.

Derrick Jones Jr - took shorter deal in POR to get back on the market
Jerami Grant - took a huge deal in DET
Paul Milsap - DEN gave him a $10 mil deal when they saw they were going to lose Jerami Grant.
Derrick Favors - wanted to go back to UTA.

Anyway, I want to put all the blame for this season on Rosas, and he deserves a lot of it, but the list of guys he went after sounds like the same thing I would have done.

Yep. Again I think this is his MO, he will wait until he can get the players he wants. Layman and Juancho have not filled in like he hoped (part of that is on him and his analytics team) and the KAT injury was unforeseen. That said I still think he deserves most of the blame for this start of the season, his roster has gaping holes. He did go after people that would be big helps and missed but that's life as a the Timberwolves. No one will want to come here until we show them something of value.

I fully believe the team will improve as the season goes on, particularly after a big trade. That said I think Rosas has really hurt the squad mentally and team perception by having the team in this position early. Losing can be very detrimental to a tames development. Players can check out, start forming bad habits, and your franchise looks like a joke. The team needs to start building respect and a winning culture. Rosas is going to have to find a way to get this ship righted sooner than later.

[Klomp]

Can you name any other team in NBA history who asked its fanbase to wait 3 - 5 years for success... when it had TWO healthy max contract guys in their primes on the roster?

Sacramento
Detroit
Cleveland
Charlotte
Washington

The one-and-done rule has ruined developing programs. 24 is not "in their prime".

[Devilzsidewalk]

I was catching up on Dane Moore’s podcasts, and I think it should be mentioned that Rosas tried to solve the PF problem in free agency before the season. Supposedly he went after four players with the MLE, and couldn’t get traction with them. It sounds like a solid list to me.

Derrick Jones Jr - took shorter deal in POR to get back on the market
Jerami Grant - took a huge deal in DET
Paul Milsap - DEN gave him a $10 mil deal when they saw they were going to lose Jerami Grant.
Derrick Favors - wanted to go back to UTA.

Anyway, I want to put all the blame for this season on Rosas, and he deserves a lot of it, but the list of guys he went after sounds like the same thing I would have done.

Curious what they would've done with favors, but all those fell through - fine. Next on that list is Juancho??? And then we luck into rhj who looks great and soundly outplays his competition and he gets the ax. I think that's when it first occurred to me that maybe rosas is a doofus

[Jedzz]

I was catching up on Dane Moore’s podcasts, and I think it should be mentioned that Rosas tried to solve the PF problem in free agency before the season. Supposedly he went after four players, and couldn’t get traction with them. It sounds like a solid list to me.

Derrick Jones Jr - took shorter deal in POR to get back on the market
Jerami Grant - took a huge deal in DET
Paul Milsap - DEN gave him a $10 mil deal when they saw they were going to lose Jerami Grant.
(Someone remind me of the fourth, please?)

Anyway, I want to put all the blame for this season on Rosas, and he deserves a lot of it, but the list of guys he went after sounds like the same thing I would have done.

Derrick Jones Jr is a shooting guard/Small Forward sized player. 6'5 or 6'6 and 210
Jerami Grant is a Small Forward sized player. 6-8 and 210

DJJ plays SF currently alongside Covington playing up at PF and Kanter/Nurkic at C.
Jerami Grant plays SF currently alongside Blake Griffin at PF and Plumlee at C.

Milsap is a 6'7 259 player more along the lines of Tucker who can handle a PF role. But Milsap is currently playing alongside a 6'10 218 SF named Michael Porter Jr and Jokic at C.

I Imagine Tucker was the fourth name. So two SFs and two short PFs were his offseason goals. So he didn't get them. So use their player type template and find minime versions of them, or get a Typical PF with real size in here instead.

DJJ is also another sub 30% 3pt shooter dropping 6pts a game. I guess maybe he would bring net pressure from the inside. But is he really better than Culver? idk. I just laugh because look at who these teams are adding these players around. More true size.

[Klomp]

I was catching up on Dane Moore’s podcasts, and I think it should be mentioned that Rosas tried to solve the PF problem in free agency before the season. Supposedly he went after four players with the MLE, and couldn’t get traction with them. It sounds like a solid list to me.

Derrick Jones Jr - took shorter deal in POR to get back on the market
Jerami Grant - took a huge deal in DET
Paul Milsap - DEN gave him a $10 mil deal when they saw they were going to lose Jerami Grant.
Derrick Favors - wanted to go back to UTA.

Anyway, I want to put all the blame for this season on Rosas, and he deserves a lot of it, but the list of guys he went after sounds like the same thing I would have done.

Correct, those all have been mentioned. They also had trade talks for PJ Tucker, Larry Nance and Aaron Gordon.

It takes two to tango, both in trades and free agency.

[Jedzz]

I was catching up on Dane Moore’s podcasts, and I think it should be mentioned that Rosas tried to solve the PF problem in free agency before the season. Supposedly he went after four players with the MLE, and couldn’t get traction with them. It sounds like a solid list to me.

Derrick Jones Jr - took shorter deal in POR to get back on the market
Jerami Grant - took a huge deal in DET
Paul Milsap - DEN gave him a $10 mil deal when they saw they were going to lose Jerami Grant.
Derrick Favors - wanted to go back to UTA.

Anyway, I want to put all the blame for this season on Rosas, and he deserves a lot of it, but the list of guys he went after sounds like the same thing I would have done.

Curious what they would've done with favors, but all those fell through - fine. Next on that list is Juancho??? And then we luck into rhj who looks great and soundly outplays his competition and he gets the ax. I think that's when it first occurred to me that maybe rosas is a doofus

I think those points and decisions were eye openers for many of us.

We did talk about it here this summer where many here thought Juancho needed to get upgraded from and others, including myself, that thought this was who Rosas planned to make it work all along. The RHJ preview and difference was striking and yet this was a player struggling to find a spot in the league at all. That's how messed up our front court is.

[Howard Cosell]

LOL!

Same people making the same excuses for Timberwolves dreadful front office.

Just like clockwork.

Of course Rosas has been dreadful. And this whole notion that he should get credit for the trades he attempted to make but couldn’t make it happen is the greatest sign of this Stockholm Syndrome fan base using its passive aggressive personality disorder to get through another day of being a Timberwolves fan.

Rosas, much like Thibs, has done more damage than good.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Can you name any other team in NBA history who asked its fanbase to wait 3 - 5 years for success... when it had TWO healthy max contract guys in their primes on the roster?

Sacramento
Detroit
Cleveland
Charlotte
Washington

The one-and-done rule has ruined developing programs. 24 is not "in their prime".

There really is no hard-and-fast rule for a player's "prime."

What is known is that the league has impact players only a couple of years into their careers. Both guys are in their 6th season. Wiggins was in his 6th season. They're all being paid like players in or near their prime. NBA history tells us that they're largely the players they're going to become by that point.

I'm not saying you're wrong... but can you share some links to support your take that all those teams had two healthy max guys... and asked their fanbase to wait another 3 - 5 years for success?

I'm not asking whether it panned out or not... I'm asking about Rosas' very clear directive for fans that he didn't expect a team with two max guys on the roster be close to competing for years. It's such a ridiculous premise... that I'm still shocked so many swallowed it so quickly.

[Klomp]

There really is no hard-and-fast rule for a player's "prime."

What is known is that the league is full of impact players only a couple of years into their careers. Both guys are in their 6th season. Wiggins was in his 6th season. NBA history tells us that they're largely the players they're going to become by that point.

I'm not saying you're wrong... but can you share some links to support your take that all those teams had two healthy max guys... and asked their fanbase to wait another 3 - 5 years for success?

I'm not asking whether it panned out or not... I'm asking about Rosas' very clear directive for fans that he didn't expect a team with two max guys on the roster be close to competing for years. It's such a ridiculous premise... that I'm still shocked so many swallowed it so quickly.

Those teams all have two max guys or have in recent years, and none have been close to competing. I'd rather have management be honest and truthful about that over trying to say how good of a team they have right now.

Again, in NBA history you're comparing to guys who had 3 to 4 years of college on top of those 6 NBA seasons. Michael Jordan had 3 years of college and didn't have a winning record until his 3rd year. I guess he was destined to be a stat-padder and nothing more than an empty-stats player for his career.

[shrink]

I was catching up on Dane Moore’s podcasts, and I think it should be mentioned that Rosas tried to solve the PF problem in free agency before the season. Supposedly he went after four players with the MLE, and couldn’t get traction with them. It sounds like a solid list to me.

Derrick Jones Jr - took shorter deal in POR to get back on the market
Jerami Grant - took a huge deal in DET
Paul Milsap - DEN gave him a $10 mil deal when they saw they were going to lose Jerami Grant.
Derrick Favors - wanted to go back to UTA.

Anyway, I want to put all the blame for this season on Rosas, and he deserves a lot of it, but the list of guys he went after sounds like the same thing I would have done.

Correct, those all have been mentioned. They also had trade talks for PJ Tucker, Larry Nance and Aaron Gordon.

It takes two to tango, both in trades and free agency.

Good point. Those are the trade candidates, I was just listing the free agents he looked at with the MLE.

Curious what they would've done with favors, but all those fell through - fine. Next on that list is Juancho??? And then we luck into rhj who looks great and soundly outplays his competition and he gets the ax. I think that's when it first occurred to me that maybe rosas is a doofus

I agree. I‘M on the record that I wasn’t a fan of the Juancho deal, but he did play okay for us in his minutes last year, and he could be signed without touching the MLE using Bird rights. I don’t know the chronological order for who got offers first here, but if he was Plan H after Plans A-G, meh.

I don’t know why we haven’t surrendered on the lux, and brought back RHJ. We could try to get back down under the lux in another deal before the end of the season.

[AbeVigodaLive]

There really is no hard-and-fast rule for a player's "prime."

What is known is that the league is full of impact players only a couple of years into their careers. Both guys are in their 6th season. Wiggins was in his 6th season. NBA history tells us that they're largely the players they're going to become by that point.

I'm not saying you're wrong... but can you share some links to support your take that all those teams had two healthy max guys... and asked their fanbase to wait another 3 - 5 years for success?

I'm not asking whether it panned out or not... I'm asking about Rosas' very clear directive for fans that he didn't expect a team with two max guys on the roster be close to competing for years. It's such a ridiculous premise... that I'm still shocked so many swallowed it so quickly.

Those teams all have two max guys or have in recent years, and none have been close to competing. I'd rather have management be honest and truthful about that over trying to say how good of a team they have right now.

Again, in NBA history you're comparing to guys who had 3 to 4 years of college on top of those 6 NBA seasons. Michael Jordan had 3 years of college and didn't have a winning record until his 3rd year. I guess he was destined to be a stat-padder and nothing more than an empty-stats player for his career.

Why are you comparing the NBA in 1985 to the NBA in 2020?

Tatum + Brown
Simmons + Embiid
Doncic
Giannis
Sabonis
Durant
Westbrook
Harden
James
Mitchell
Jokic
Et al.

All young guys in the NBA... many younger than Towns and/or Russell... all having various levels of legit, sustainable success. Meanwhile, we're squabbling whether it's ok to be distant playoff outsiders with our two* max guys because they're not in their primes yet.


* actually three. It was Wiggins who was here when Rosas arrived. He traded him for another max contract guy not ready to compete for the playoffs yet.

[Jedzz]

There really is no hard-and-fast rule for a player's "prime."

What is known is that the league is full of impact players only a couple of years into their careers. Both guys are in their 6th season. Wiggins was in his 6th season. NBA history tells us that they're largely the players they're going to become by that point.

I'm not saying you're wrong... but can you share some links to support your take that all those teams had two healthy max guys... and asked their fanbase to wait another 3 - 5 years for success?

I'm not asking whether it panned out or not... I'm asking about Rosas' very clear directive for fans that he didn't expect a team with two max guys on the roster be close to competing for years. It's such a ridiculous premise... that I'm still shocked so many swallowed it so quickly.

Those teams all have two max guys or have in recent years, and none have been close to competing. I'd rather have management be honest and truthful about that over trying to say how good of a team they have right now.

Again, in NBA history you're comparing to guys who had 3 to 4 years of college on top of those 6 NBA seasons. Michael Jordan had 3 years of college and didn't have a winning record until his 3rd year. I guess he was destined to be a stat-padder and nothing more than an empty-stats player for his career.

Klomp I think you are making a good, but unrelated point here and using it for an excuse for Rosas when it really doesn't fit there. Rosas can have the awareness of his own teams current roster and needs and timing to choose not to draft projects in this moment. Maybe that means something simple like drafting players with more college years in and being less questionmarks, showing more ability to consistently shoot, etc. Doing so for the very reason you don't want to waste this oppoturnity of having two max players, by adding players that can offer you something alongside them now while still having an ability to get better in their own actual primes later.

People just need to hold Rosas accountable for not trading down or taking Wiseman. The logjam was already there for guards and he drafted and traded for more. This losing is on him. He could stand up at any time and let everyone know he was planning to make trades to better align things and just didn't get it done. He could say he still plans to and to just hold on to your seats. But he's not. What I've heard lately is comments about not being happy about what he is seeing and more or less that's saying what Saunders has gotten from Rosas so far chosen roster. That's not taking accountability for this.

[Krapinsky]

Can you name any other team in NBA history who asked its fanbase to wait 3 - 5 years for success... when it had TWO healthy max contract guys in their primes on the roster?

Sacramento
Detroit
Cleveland
Charlotte
Washington

The one-and-done rule has ruined developing programs. 24 is not "in their prime".

Not a pretty list.

[Merc_Porto]

Tic tac tic tac tic tac

Each day that goes by the value of HIS assets are dropping fast...

I really was expecting a big trade before the season started when i saw the direction he took.

13 games later - worst team in the league.
And nothing...

And we really can't put the blame on the unlucky we had with Towns going down because guess what... Pretty much every team had to deal with the same thing.

Rosas, where are you man?

[Klomp]

Tic tac tic tac tic tac

Each day that goes by the value of HIS assets are dropping fast...

I really was expecting a big trade before the season started when i saw the direction he took.

13 games later - worst team in the league.
And nothing...

And we really can't put the blame on the unlucky we had with Towns going down because guess what... Pretty much every team had to deal with the same thing.

Rosas, where are you man?

You can call them his assets, but the assets he had when he took over weren't any better. He hasn't had a ton to work with.

[TheAlanParsons]

If Taylor ever gets off his ass and sells the team, both Rosas and Sanders will be fired in short order. I don't want Rosas involved in picking a new HC. As for desperately needing front court help, Wiseman was sitting right there, but Rosas had to pick an inferior player at a logjammed position. What a genius.

[Klomp]

If Taylor ever gets off his ass and sells the team, both Rosas and Sanders will be fired in short order. I don't want Rosas involved in picking a new HC. As for desperately needing front court help, Wiseman was sitting right there, but Rosas had to pick an inferior player at a logjammed position. What a genius.

There's not a more logjammed situation than drafting someone to sit behind your superstar player.

[Merc_Porto]

Tic tac tic tac tic tac

Each day that goes by the value of HIS assets are dropping fast...

I really was expecting a big trade before the season started when i saw the direction he took.

13 games later - worst team in the league.
And nothing...

And we really can't put the blame on the unlucky we had with Towns going down because guess what... Pretty much every team had to deal with the same thing.

Rosas, where are you man?

You can call them his assets, but the assets he had when he took over weren't any better. He hasn't had a ton to work with.

Yeah right. Keep believing in that.

[Battletrigger]

If Taylor ever gets off his ass and sells the team, both Rosas and Sanders will be fired in short order. I don't want Rosas involved in picking a new HC. As for desperately needing front court help, Wiseman was sitting right there, but Rosas had to pick an inferior player at a logjammed position. What a genius.

There's not a more logjammed situation than drafting someone to sit behind your superstar player.

There is no real superstar player here. I to say that nobody agreed with me, now more people realizes that.

[Foye]

If Taylor ever gets off his ass and sells the team, both Rosas and Sanders will be fired in short order. I don't want Rosas involved in picking a new HC. As for desperately needing front court help, Wiseman was sitting right there, but Rosas had to pick an inferior player at a logjammed position. What a genius.

There's not a more logjammed situation than drafting someone to sit behind your superstar player.

Your answer seems to imply that Wiseman and Towns could not co-exist on the floor on the same time.
I call bs on that.

- Towns played together with Willie Cauley-Stein at KU and it worked quite well. Why would a Wiseman / Towns combo not be able to coexist for 10 mpg? That's a size advantage on offense basically against anyone in the league.
- Towns averages about 33-34 mpg, at least 14 mpg left for the back up C.
- Based on past experience, Towns is one of the league leaders in fouls committed per game. Every season. Having a quality replacement for him would mean that Towns can focus more on playing adequate D rather than having to avoid fouls.
- Towns missed a lot of games last year.

Given that the teams decision was to resign Beasley - which I still do not agree with for off-court reasons - there really was no need to draft Edwards over Wiseman - who was quite obviously the better prospect IMHO.

In addition, by not drafting Edwards, you would've not put last years top pick - Culver - in the doghouse.
Culver can be a decent player. They just need to let him figure things out.

Now Wolves are stuck with:
- No Wiseman
- Low BBIQ Edwards bricking shot after shot
- Culver in reduced role lacking confidence

All of this, is not news to anyone. It was known on draft day already.