Blowing it up? Not yet.

[winforlose]

Bit early to be handing out crow.

Really, that all you think my post was? It couldn’t possibly be an honest question about Dlo now that his value is starting to shine through? I mean honestly it was the biggest trade for better or worse for the Wolves since Butler. Top 3 since Wiggins for Love as well. This wasn’t about crow

I kinda want to bump this thread and I hope people revisit it for context this season. Also, for those of you saying Dlo needs to go, has your opinion changed at all?

If you wanted to talk about Russell, you could and should have done it in the dedicated Russell thread. But instead you bump both this thread and the other one? Yeah, you were trying to hand out crow.

Kudos for giving yourself an out though. Most people don't think that far ahead.

Lol, your fun. I think your reading your own slant into it.

[KGdaBom]

We need to make a move for size. We cannot turn it around until we improve our rebounding and inside presence. I believe in the coach and the roster (most of it,) but this is essential, (and no Ben Simmons is not the answer.)

Ben Simmons actually is the answer. Unless you mean Alan Iverson.

[KGdaBom]

It's so easy to be down on the season, but then you look at the standings and realize they are only TWO games out of the SEVENTH seed. This is essentially where we expected to be all offseason.

If you don't watch the games, you have a solid point.

If you do, you'd realise everyone is only a couple of games out of the playoffs right now and we have serious, crippling issues that are likely unfixable.

This hasn't aged well.

[Klomp]

I think what we're seeing is a lot of parity after the top few teams. While we do have issues that will need to be addressed at some point, so do most teams.

[winforlose]

We need to make a move for size. We cannot turn it around until we improve our rebounding and inside presence. I believe in the coach and the roster (most of it,) but this is essential, (and no Ben Simmons is not the answer.)

Ben Simmons actually is the answer. Unless you mean Alan Iverson.

Getting Ben Simmons is like finding a pile of money and deciding rather than spending or investing it you will set it on fire because you want to watch it burn.

In our case the team is better than people thought and if we make use of our extra talent and make the right move we get better. Instead bring in the literal worst fit in the entire league and over pay for him just to ensure we never make the playoffs again before the owners move the team

Simmons kills Ant, costs us not only our opportunity at better players like Turner, Wood, Siakam, but also any FAs who might want to come here when we are competitive. He costs us our young core and our picks. Might as well cover that money in horse dung to make sure the scene smells as bad as it looks.

[KGdaBom]

We need to make a move for size. We cannot turn it around until we improve our rebounding and inside presence. I believe in the coach and the roster (most of it,) but this is essential, (and no Ben Simmons is not the answer.)

Ben Simmons actually is the answer. Unless you mean Alan Iverson.

Getting Ben Simmons is like finding a pile of money and deciding rather than spending or investing it you will set it on fire because you want to watch it burn.

In our case the team is better than people thought and if we make use of our extra talent and make the right move we get better. Instead bring in the literal worst fit in the entire league and over pay for him just to ensure we never make the playoffs again before the owners move the team

Simmons kills Ant, costs us not only our opportunity at better players like Turner, Wood, Siakam, but also any FAs who might want to come here when we are competitive. He costs us our young core and our picks. Might as well cover that money in horse dung to make sure the scene smells as bad as it looks.

I like your general optimism about our team, but you couldn't be possibly more wrong about Simmons. He is the best fit and likely won't cost us very much.

[winforlose]

Ben Simmons actually is the answer. Unless you mean Alan Iverson.

Getting Ben Simmons is like finding a pile of money and deciding rather than spending or investing it you will set it on fire because you want to watch it burn.

In our case the team is better than people thought and if we make use of our extra talent and make the right move we get better. Instead bring in the literal worst fit in the entire league and over pay for him just to ensure we never make the playoffs again before the owners move the team

Simmons kills Ant, costs us not only our opportunity at better players like Turner, Wood, Siakam, but also any FAs who might want to come here when we are competitive. He costs us our young core and our picks. Might as well cover that money in horse dung to make sure the scene smells as bad as it looks.

I like your general optimism about our team, but you couldn't be possibly more wrong about Simmons. He is the best fit and likely won't cost us very much.

Let’s break this down.

1. Simmons has mental issues. Not specifically mental health, but he gets in his own head and messes himself up. His playoff performances show that. If this fan base is disappointed with him or if he has similar issues that hurt us the way they hurt Philly he could pull this same crap on us in 2/3 years. We have seen what happened to us, to the Pels, to the Rockets when a key player demands out and pulls crap to get out. This is a huge risk, made more so by the fact that unlike in Philly where Simmons was an established part of the team and newcomers had to defer to him, Simmons is coming into the KAT, Dlo, Ant show.

2. Simmons lack of offense allows and encourages the same type of defense that has been the most effective against us. I know you will argue that Simmons is better offensively than Vando, but he scores in the same ways and from the same spots. A clogged lane is a clogged lane and Simmons FT percentage is not good enough.

3. Ant needs driving lanes. Wood/Turner/ any other long range big pulls opponent bigs out of the lane, Simmons and other non shooting bigs puts them into it. Both Simmons and Ant need to be going downhill to be effective which means they will collapse the defense and force the kick outs but with a swing rotation like we use. It might get us more open looks, but we have plenty already and are missing them. We need more outside shooting, we already dominate in the paint.

4. You say Simmons is cheap, based on what? Everything I have seen says the 76ers are willing to wait, and why not, they are winning and saving money on Simmons. Meanwhile Simmons folded and returned to practice because he realized he was losing money and getting out of shape at the same time. Also, there is a fit issue. Simmons cannot share the floor with V8 or JO, which means you push V8 to the bench and JO off the team.

5. The money of having Simmons, KAT, Dlo, and needing to pay guys like Naz soon is gonna be an issue. Lack of cap space will handcuff us in future seasons.

Your answers to this stuff ignores reality. Most guys who miss all the preseason and a 1/3 or 1/2 the regular season don’t come back at elite level in conditioning or overall skills. There is no guarantee Simmons fits in here or is happy here, and his history proves what happens when he wants out. It’s not hypothetical, it’s a contingency you cannot account for.

[KGdaBom]

Getting Ben Simmons is like finding a pile of money and deciding rather than spending or investing it you will set it on fire because you want to watch it burn.

In our case the team is better than people thought and if we make use of our extra talent and make the right move we get better. Instead bring in the literal worst fit in the entire league and over pay for him just to ensure we never make the playoffs again before the owners move the team

Simmons kills Ant, costs us not only our opportunity at better players like Turner, Wood, Siakam, but also any FAs who might want to come here when we are competitive. He costs us our young core and our picks. Might as well cover that money in horse dung to make sure the scene smells as bad as it looks.

I like your general optimism about our team, but you couldn't be possibly more wrong about Simmons. He is the best fit and likely won't cost us very much.

Let’s break this down.

1. Simmons has mental issues. Not specifically mental health, but he gets in his own head and messes himself up. His playoff performances show that. If this fan base is disappointed with him or if he has similar issues that hurt us the way they hurt Philly he could pull this same crap on us in 2/3 years. We have seen what happened to us, to the Pels, to the Rockets when a key player demands out and pulls crap to get out. This is a huge risk, made more so by the fact that unlike in Philly where Simmons was an established part of the team and newcomers had to defer to him, Simmons is coming into the KAT, Dlo, Ant show.

2. Simmons lack of offense allows and encourages the same type of defense that has been the most effective against us. I know you will argue that Simmons is better offensively than Vando, but he scores in the same ways and from the same spots. A clogged lane is a clogged lane and Simmons FT percentage is not good enough.

3. Ant needs driving lanes. Wood/Turner/ any other long range big pulls opponent bigs out of the lane, Simmons and other non shooting bigs puts them into it. Both Simmons and Ant need to be going downhill to be effective which means they will collapse the defense and force the kick outs but with a swing rotation like we use. It might get us more open looks, but we have plenty already and are missing them. We need more outside shooting, we already dominate in the paint.

4. You say Simmons is cheap, based on what? Everything I have seen says the 76ers are willing to wait, and why not, they are winning and saving money on Simmons. Meanwhile Simmons folded and returned to practice because he realized he was losing money and getting out of shape at the same time. Also, there is a fit issue. Simmons cannot share the floor with V8 or JO, which means you push V8 to the bench and JO off the team.

5. The money of having Simmons, KAT, Dlo, and needing to pay guys like Naz soon is gonna be an issue. Lack of cap space will handcuff us in future seasons.

Your answers to this stuff ignores reality. Most guys who miss all the preseason and a 1/3 or 1/2 the regular season don’t come back at elite level in conditioning or overall skills. There is no guarantee Simmons fits in here or is happy here, and his history proves what happens when he wants out. It’s not hypothetical, it’s a contingency you cannot account for.

Sorry, but none of your points mean anything to me. Simmons is one of the few best defenders in the NBA, an incredible playmaker. a fast break virtuoso, a guy who fills the rebounding defending role we so desperately need. As for his salary we send as much out as we take back so that's meaningless.

[shrink]

I’d add that MIN’s recent success probably makes it less likely we’d add a big name player and jeopardize our emerging chemistry.

I see us needing a big who defends, rebounds, and needs to be guarded .. but doesn’t care if he scores ten points a game or not. To me, that is a back up player, who truly wouldn’t cost many resources or be hard to integrate with our current players.

[winforlose]

I like your general optimism about our team, but you couldn't be possibly more wrong about Simmons. He is the best fit and likely won't cost us very much.

Let’s break this down.

1. Simmons has mental issues. Not specifically mental health, but he gets in his own head and messes himself up. His playoff performances show that. If this fan base is disappointed with him or if he has similar issues that hurt us the way they hurt Philly he could pull this same crap on us in 2/3 years. We have seen what happened to us, to the Pels, to the Rockets when a key player demands out and pulls crap to get out. This is a huge risk, made more so by the fact that unlike in Philly where Simmons was an established part of the team and newcomers had to defer to him, Simmons is coming into the KAT, Dlo, Ant show.

2. Simmons lack of offense allows and encourages the same type of defense that has been the most effective against us. I know you will argue that Simmons is better offensively than Vando, but he scores in the same ways and from the same spots. A clogged lane is a clogged lane and Simmons FT percentage is not good enough.

3. Ant needs driving lanes. Wood/Turner/ any other long range big pulls opponent bigs out of the lane, Simmons and other non shooting bigs puts them into it. Both Simmons and Ant need to be going downhill to be effective which means they will collapse the defense and force the kick outs but with a swing rotation like we use. It might get us more open looks, but we have plenty already and are missing them. We need more outside shooting, we already dominate in the paint.

4. You say Simmons is cheap, based on what? Everything I have seen says the 76ers are willing to wait, and why not, they are winning and saving money on Simmons. Meanwhile Simmons folded and returned to practice because he realized he was losing money and getting out of shape at the same time. Also, there is a fit issue. Simmons cannot share the floor with V8 or JO, which means you push V8 to the bench and JO off the team.

5. The money of having Simmons, KAT, Dlo, and needing to pay guys like Naz soon is gonna be an issue. Lack of cap space will handcuff us in future seasons.

Your answers to this stuff ignores reality. Most guys who miss all the preseason and a 1/3 or 1/2 the regular season don’t come back at elite level in conditioning or overall skills. There is no guarantee Simmons fits in here or is happy here, and his history proves what happens when he wants out. It’s not hypothetical, it’s a contingency you cannot account for.

Sorry, but none of your points mean anything to me. Simmons is one of the few best defenders in the NBA, an incredible playmaker. a fast break virtuoso, a guy who fills the rebounding defending role we so desperately need. As for his salary we send as much out as we take back so that's meaningless.

The money is committed to 1 player over years. That money could pay for 3 or 4 other players. We already have two max guys in KAT and Dlo. Getting a third max really closes a lot of doors and Simmons isn’t worth it. As to the rest of your argument, it is like saying because someone happens to be good at X and Y he can fly. It not only ignores reality, it is nonsensical. Our offense is the biggest issue this season not our defense. Our rebounding sucks, but you cannot play Simmons with V8 which means Simmons only improves your rebounding for every board above and beyond what V8 would pull down. He is getting around 10 per game recently, can Simmons grab that plus another 10 to justify making 7 times as much and not adding much more in offense?

[KGdaBom]

I’d add that MIN’s recent success probably makes it less likely we’d add a big name player and jeopardize our emerging chemistry.

I see us needing a big who defends, rebounds, and needs to be guarded .. but doesn’t care if he scores ten points a game or not. To me, that is a back up player, who truly wouldn’t cost many resources or be hard to integrate with our current players.

Shrink you are very likely correct about what we will do, but that way of looking at it is like the Mike Zimmer coaching philosophy. Get a small lead and turtle up hoping to hold on. IMO now is the perfect time for us to go for it. Just two different philosophies. Neither is necessarily right or wrong.

[KGdaBom]

Let’s break this down.

1. Simmons has mental issues. Not specifically mental health, but he gets in his own head and messes himself up. His playoff performances show that. If this fan base is disappointed with him or if he has similar issues that hurt us the way they hurt Philly he could pull this same crap on us in 2/3 years. We have seen what happened to us, to the Pels, to the Rockets when a key player demands out and pulls crap to get out. This is a huge risk, made more so by the fact that unlike in Philly where Simmons was an established part of the team and newcomers had to defer to him, Simmons is coming into the KAT, Dlo, Ant show.

2. Simmons lack of offense allows and encourages the same type of defense that has been the most effective against us. I know you will argue that Simmons is better offensively than Vando, but he scores in the same ways and from the same spots. A clogged lane is a clogged lane and Simmons FT percentage is not good enough.

3. Ant needs driving lanes. Wood/Turner/ any other long range big pulls opponent bigs out of the lane, Simmons and other non shooting bigs puts them into it. Both Simmons and Ant need to be going downhill to be effective which means they will collapse the defense and force the kick outs but with a swing rotation like we use. It might get us more open looks, but we have plenty already and are missing them. We need more outside shooting, we already dominate in the paint.

4. You say Simmons is cheap, based on what? Everything I have seen says the 76ers are willing to wait, and why not, they are winning and saving money on Simmons. Meanwhile Simmons folded and returned to practice because he realized he was losing money and getting out of shape at the same time. Also, there is a fit issue. Simmons cannot share the floor with V8 or JO, which means you push V8 to the bench and JO off the team.

5. The money of having Simmons, KAT, Dlo, and needing to pay guys like Naz soon is gonna be an issue. Lack of cap space will handcuff us in future seasons.

Your answers to this stuff ignores reality. Most guys who miss all the preseason and a 1/3 or 1/2 the regular season don’t come back at elite level in conditioning or overall skills. There is no guarantee Simmons fits in here or is happy here, and his history proves what happens when he wants out. It’s not hypothetical, it’s a contingency you cannot account for.

Sorry, but none of your points mean anything to me. Simmons is one of the few best defenders in the NBA, an incredible playmaker. a fast break virtuoso, a guy who fills the rebounding defending role we so desperately need. As for his salary we send as much out as we take back so that's meaningless.

The money is committed to 1 player over years. That money could pay for 3 or 4 other players. We already have two max guys in KAT and Dlo. Getting a third max really closes a lot of doors and Simmons isn’t worth it. As to the rest of your argument, it is like saying because someone happens to be good at X and Y he can fly. It not only ignores reality, it is nonsensical. Our offense is the biggest issue this season not our defense. Our rebounding sucks, but you cannot play Simmons with V8 which means Simmons only improves your rebounding for every board above and beyond what V8 would pull down. He is getting around 10 per game recently, can Simmons grab that plus another 10 to justify making 7 times as much and not adding much more in offense?

Once again IMO you couldn't be more wrong. I guess that is slightly rude towards you, but your comments such as nonsensical and ignoring reality are a bunch of BS and could hardly be more rude. You think I'm wrong. I think you're wrong. Odds are extremely strong that we will never find out which of us is right.

[winforlose]

I’d add that MIN’s recent success probably makes it less likely we’d add a big name player and jeopardize our emerging chemistry.

I see us needing a big who defends, rebounds, and needs to be guarded .. but doesn’t care if he scores ten points a game or not. To me, that is a back up player, who truly wouldn’t cost many resources or be hard to integrate with our current players.

Grabbing one extra backup on the cheap does not help with the bigger issue. We have Prince in the rotation not contributing and Beasley inconsistent at best. We need to make up for their combined lack of expected offensive production. Otherwise, we put all the pressure on the big 3. One injury or series of bad games and we have no offense. We need another offensive load bearer. Preferably someone who can draw a big out of the lane and out to the perimeter.

[shangrila]

It's so easy to be down on the season, but then you look at the standings and realize they are only TWO games out of the SEVENTH seed. This is essentially where we expected to be all offseason.

If you don't watch the games, you have a solid point.

If you do, you'd realise everyone is only a couple of games out of the playoffs right now and we have serious, crippling issues that are likely unfixable.

This hasn't aged well.

How so?

The point was that you can't look at the standings that early because there's so many fewer games. As I said, at that point everyone was a handful of games from some kind of seed. Even now it isn't a great indication. There's only a 1-2 win gap between the teams immediately above and below us, so in a fortnight the standings could be completely flipped.

If you mean the crippling issue part, sure, but I'm not going to feel bad about that either. Towns looked like he checked out, we were the worst rebounding team in history, our defence had reached expected levels and our offence wasn't working anywhere near where it needed to to compensate. Pessimism was and still is the only natural response to this team until they prove otherwise.

[shangrila]

I’d add that MIN’s recent success probably makes it less likely we’d add a big name player and jeopardize our emerging chemistry.

I see us needing a big who defends, rebounds, and needs to be guarded .. but doesn’t care if he scores ten points a game or not. To me, that is a back up player, who truly wouldn’t cost many resources or be hard to integrate with our current players.

If by "needs to be guarded" you mean "shoots the 3" then I highly doubt they'll come cheap.

Even backups that hit that holy trinity are valuable. Larry Nance just cost a 1st, for example.

[KGdaBom]

If you don't watch the games, you have a solid point.

If you do, you'd realise everyone is only a couple of games out of the playoffs right now and we have serious, crippling issues that are likely unfixable.

This hasn't aged well.

How so?

The point was that you can't look at the standings that early because there's so many fewer games. As I said, at that point everyone was a handful of games from some kind of seed. Even now it isn't a great indication. There's only a 1-2 win gap between the teams immediately above and below us, so in a fortnight the standings could be completely flipped.

If you mean the crippling issue part, sure, but I'm not going to feel bad about that either. Towns looked like he checked out, we were the worst rebounding team in history, our defence had reached expected levels and our offence wasn't working anywhere near where it needed to to compensate. Pessimism was and still is the only natural response to this team until they prove otherwise.

It was your crippling issues that are unfixable comment that I said hasn't aged well. They aren't that crippling and they aren't unfixable. My natural response is optimism so pessimism isn't the only natural response.

[shrink]

I’d add that MIN’s recent success probably makes it less likely we’d add a big name player and jeopardize our emerging chemistry.

I see us needing a big who defends, rebounds, and needs to be guarded .. but doesn’t care if he scores ten points a game or not. To me, that is a back up player, who truly wouldn’t cost many resources or be hard to integrate with our current players.

If by "needs to be guarded" you mean "shoots the 3" then I highly doubt they'll come cheap.

Even backups that hit that holy trinity are valuable. Larry Nance just cost a 1st, for example.

Larry Nance is a really good defender, and very professional. He’s also overkill.

I don’t think in today’s NBA, the ability to hit an open three pointer is such a rare skill for a big man, particularly because MIN doesn’t need quantity, or even a league average shooter. For example, Gorgui Dieng isn’t considered a great three point shooter, but he can make open ones in the corner, and provide defense and rebounding. He only got a $4 mil expiring contract, and I’d be happy to get him for Layman and a 2nd if Okongwu is back yet, and pushes Gorgui to ATL’s fourth string center. He also has experience playing next to Towns, so he could have an edge to speed up helping right away.

[shrink]

I’d add that MIN’s recent success probably makes it less likely we’d add a big name player and jeopardize our emerging chemistry.

I see us needing a big who defends, rebounds, and needs to be guarded .. but doesn’t care if he scores ten points a game or not. To me, that is a back up player, who truly wouldn’t cost many resources or be hard to integrate with our current players.

Grabbing one extra backup on the cheap does not help with the bigger issue. We have Prince in the rotation not contributing and Beasley inconsistent at best. We need to make up for their combined lack of expected offensive production. Otherwise, we put all the pressure on the big 3. One injury or series of bad games and we have no offense. We need another offensive load bearer. Preferably someone who can draw a big out of the lane and out to the perimeter.

Personally, I think I have more faith in Beasley than most, since he averaged 20 PPG for us, each of the last two seasons, and Beverley will get us some points. I don’t mind having room for Vanderbilt and McDaniels to be able to grow into more FGA’s. Even if we lose one scorer to injury, we fortunately have two others, so adding another “offensive load bearer” is not a big concern of mine. In fact, I would prefer a low usage guy on offense, as long as opponents can’t leave him completely unguarded. I am far more focuses on the defensive side - a big who can rebound and defend.

The question I have now, setting aside value, is who should we be willing to part with as matching salary. Layman seems like a no-brainer for $4. Are we sure we want to toss off Okogie? I was impressed how much energy he gives the team, even after some DNP’s. And Prince hasn’t done well, but Dane says he is the most respected player in the locker room, and the guy Ant listens too most. That said, neither appear to be in our longterm plans. I don’t know who we deal, but as close as we are to the lux, it feels like the Price is Right Showcase Showdown: pick the salaries of our players to trade, and then select the best new big at a bid without going over.

[beezy]

Screw all this inane Simmons talk. This team needs a CENTER to compete. No shorter than 6-11. I don't no who or where from, but GET him.

[BlacJacMac]

Ben Simmons actually is the answer. Unless you mean Alan Iverson.

Getting Ben Simmons is like finding a pile of money and deciding rather than spending or investing it you will set it on fire because you want to watch it burn.

In our case the team is better than people thought and if we make use of our extra talent and make the right move we get better. Instead bring in the literal worst fit in the entire league and over pay for him just to ensure we never make the playoffs again before the owners move the team

Simmons kills Ant, costs us not only our opportunity at better players like Turner, Wood, Siakam, but also any FAs who might want to come here when we are competitive. He costs us our young core and our picks. Might as well cover that money in horse dung to make sure the scene smells as bad as it looks.

I like your general optimism about our team, but you couldn't be possibly more wrong about Simmons. He is the best fit and likely won't cost us very much.

What's your realistic offer?