The Official Rudy Gobert thread

[Klomp]

0.11% better last year after we trade a trove of picks. Yeah it was a ducking failure. Stop trying to justify it. Murray for 3 less picks would have been a better trade.

If you're accounting for a trade you're not just comparing what we had last year, which would have been continuance, but also that we didn't trade for other opportunities out there. We could have had Mitchell or Murray. You can't tell me you'd rather have Gobert over those two players. We could have focused on making our guard situation better so DLo and Nowell aren't our supporting guards for Edwards.

How much better has Murray made Atlanta?

[Neeva]

Most atlanta fans ( on the squakhawk board) think the Murray trade was a failure, because he does not move the needle for them at all. They think he’s overrated.

[Domejandro]

In a world where the trade never happened, this team would likely be a DISTANT thirteenth seed in the Western Conference, with the injuries that they have sustained. Stating that the trade is an abject failure when the team is performing better than the previous season despite their All-NBA player going down is honestly wild to me.

[Neeva]

But then they would be in contention for Wenbanyama.

[Domejandro]

But then they would be in contention for Wenbanyama.

By the end of the season, they would likely be hovering around the 7-9 worst record, so I guess? Not really sure a 4-7% chance at Victor Wenbanyama is worth cratering a year of development for Anthony Edwards.

Personally, I don't think ending up with (realistically) a mid-to-late Lottery pick is better than staying in serious Playoff contention for when Towns comes back from injury.

[Klomp]

But then they would be in contention for Wenbanyama.

By the end of the season, they would likely be hovering around the 7-9 worst record, so I guess? Not really sure a 4-7% chance at Victor Wenbanyama is worth cratering a year of development for Anthony Edwards.

Personally, I don't think ending up with (realistically) a mid-to-late Lottery pick is better than staying in serious Playoff contention for when Towns comes back from injury.

I still think that this right here needs to be the biggest takeaway from this season and even the biggest takeaway from the trade.

Honestly, I'm starting to lean into the idea that Rudy Gobert should be given more credit for his role in the defensive improvements of Anthony Edwards and even Jaden McDaniels. They are at a new level this year. Maybe it's normal development, but it feels accelerated. Also, while it may not feel like Rudy has impacted the game as much as he would in Utah, that might just be because of his teammates' defensive contributions.

[Note30]

0.11% better last year after we trade a trove of picks. Yeah it was a ducking failure. Stop trying to justify it. Murray for 3 less picks would have been a better trade.

If you're accounting for a trade you're not just comparing what we had last year, which would have been continuance, but also that we didn't trade for other opportunities out there. We could have had Mitchell or Murray. You can't tell me you'd rather have Gobert over those two players. We could have focused on making our guard situation better so DLo and Nowell aren't our supporting guards for Edwards.

How much better has Murray made Atlanta?

How is it Murray's fault that everyone on that team is shooting the ball worse than last year?

Also fit is important for every team.

Just as Gobert doesn't fit here having two PGs doesn't fit in ATL.

[Baseline81]

I still think that this right here needs to be the biggest takeaway from this season and even the biggest takeaway from the trade.

Honestly, I'm starting to lean into the idea that Rudy Gobert should be given more credit for his role in the defensive improvements of Anthony Edwards and even Jaden McDaniels. They are at a new level this year. Maybe it's normal development, but it feels accelerated. Also, while it may not feel like Rudy has impacted the game as much as he would in Utah, that might just be because of his teammates' defensive contributions.

As to the underlined, it is.

You are more optimistic than most (i.e. your resistance to fire Ryan Saunders despite his obvious failings), but giving Gobert credit for that is ludicrous.

Explain to me how the Wolves can win against the Rockets (January 21) without Gobert and then proceed to lose the following matchup (January 23) with him. Similar case in defeating Golden State without Gobert only to fall the next game (Detroit) with him. He should, after all, elevate his teammates, especially against the dross in the NBA, no?

[shrink]

I still think that this right here needs to be the biggest takeaway from this season and even the biggest takeaway from the trade.

Honestly, I'm starting to lean into the idea that Rudy Gobert should be given more credit for his role in the defensive improvements of Anthony Edwards and even Jaden McDaniels. They are at a new level this year. Maybe it's normal development, but it feels accelerated. Also, while it may not feel like Rudy has impacted the game as much as he would in Utah, that might just be because of his teammates' defensive contributions.

As to the underlined, it is.

You are more optimistic than most (i.e. your resistance to fire Ryan Saunders despite his obvious failings), but giving Gobert credit for that is ludicrous.

Explain to me how the Wolves can win against the Rockets (January 21) without Gobert and then proceed to lose the following matchup (January 23) with him. Similar case in defeating Golden State without Gobert only to fall the next game (Detroit) with him. He should, after all, elevate his teammates, especially against the dross in the NBA, no?

You can choose. Small samples or scapegoating?

MIN has been the #1 defense in the NBA the last five games. They aren’t that without Gobert, or with KAT as your starting center.

[Klomp]

I still think that this right here needs to be the biggest takeaway from this season and even the biggest takeaway from the trade.

Honestly, I'm starting to lean into the idea that Rudy Gobert should be given more credit for his role in the defensive improvements of Anthony Edwards and even Jaden McDaniels. They are at a new level this year. Maybe it's normal development, but it feels accelerated. Also, while it may not feel like Rudy has impacted the game as much as he would in Utah, that might just be because of his teammates' defensive contributions.

As to the underlined, it is.

You are more optimistic than most (i.e. your resistance to fire Ryan Saunders despite his obvious failings), but giving Gobert credit for that is ludicrous.

Explain to me how the Wolves can win against the Rockets (January 21) without Gobert and then proceed to lose the following matchup (January 23) with him. Similar case in defeating Golden State without Gobert only to fall the next game (Detroit) with him. He should, after all, elevate his teammates, especially against the dross in the NBA, no?

I'm not saying he deserves the entire amount of credit. But I think there's a defined impact there.

Every team in the NBA has off nights where they lose games they shouldn't. That's part of being human and not robots. The 73-win Warriors once lost to the Timberwolves. Shouldn't Steph Curry elevate his teammates?!

[Nick K]

I still think that this right here needs to be the biggest takeaway from this season and even the biggest takeaway from the trade.

Honestly, I'm starting to lean into the idea that Rudy Gobert should be given more credit for his role in the defensive improvements of Anthony Edwards and even Jaden McDaniels. They are at a new level this year. Maybe it's normal development, but it feels accelerated. Also, while it may not feel like Rudy has impacted the game as much as he would in Utah, that might just be because of his teammates' defensive contributions.

As to the underlined, it is.

You are more optimistic than most (i.e. your resistance to fire Ryan Saunders despite his obvious failings), but giving Gobert credit for that is ludicrous.

Explain to me how the Wolves can win against the Rockets (January 21) without Gobert and then proceed to lose the following matchup (January 23) with him. Similar case in defeating Golden State without Gobert only to fall the next game (Detroit) with him. He should, after all, elevate his teammates, especially against the dross in the NBA, no?

You can choose. Small samples or scapegoating?

MIN has been the #1 defense in the NBA the last five games. They aren’t that without Gobert, or with KAT as your starting center.

Nobody ripped Gobert a new one like I did and it was deserved. Rudy is now playing great ball like I thought he could when we traded for him. A lot of it is we use him different now. Just have him rebound, block shots and make lobs at the basket. Keep it simple. He has been a difference maker the last 30 days.

[Baseline81]

You can choose. Small samples or scapegoating?

MIN has been the #1 defense in the NBA the last five games. They aren’t that without Gobert, or with KAT as your starting center.

Not sure I'm seeing that:
https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/defense?LastNGames=5

By the way, do you think Gordon, Jokic and Murray not playing skews things a little?

[Baseline81]

I'm not saying he deserves the entire amount of credit. But I think there's a defined impact there.

Every team in the NBA has off nights where they lose games they shouldn't. That's part of being human and not robots. The 73-win Warriors once lost to the Timberwolves. Shouldn't Steph Curry elevate his teammates?!

Apple to oranges in comparing a .500 team to that of a 73-win team. Notice how that was a one-off for the Warriors where it seems to happen more frequently to the Wolves.

[Klomp]

I'm not saying he deserves the entire amount of credit. But I think there's a defined impact there.

Every team in the NBA has off nights where they lose games they shouldn't. That's part of being human and not robots. The 73-win Warriors once lost to the Timberwolves. Shouldn't Steph Curry elevate his teammates?!

Apple to oranges in comparing a .500 team to that of a 73-win team. Notice how that was a one-off for the Warriors where it seems to happen more frequently to the Wolves.

A one-off? Only two of their losses were to teams with at least 45 wins. The Warriors also lost to 33-49 Milwaukee, 33-49 Denver and 17-65 Lakers.

[shrink]

You can choose. Small samples or scapegoating?

MIN has been the #1 defense in the NBA the last five games. They aren’t that without Gobert, or with KAT as your starting center.

Not sure I'm seeing that:
https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/defense?LastNGames=5

By the way, do you think Gordon, Jokic and Murray not playing skews things a little?

Of course not! If any person thought the idiosyncrasies of an individual game mattered, then they would be a hypocrite to write:

Explain to me how the Wolves can win against the Rockets (January 21) without Gobert and then proceed to lose the following matchup (January 23) with him. Similar case in defeating Golden State without Gobert only to fall the next game (Detroit) with him.

Just playin’. Seriously though, not sure about the #1 defense thing. I thought JimPete said we were #1 in the last five, and I assumed that holding SAC under 100 wouldn’t have affected that. But maybe I misheard him - I didn’t look it up. My bad on that one.

Let me ask this: Do you believe our defense this year would be better if we hadn’t made the Gobert trade?

[Baseline81]

A one-off? Only two of their losses were to teams with at least 45 wins. The Warriors also lost to 33-49 Milwaukee, 33-49 Denver and 17-65 Lakers.

So three other games over the entire season...

Again, trying to compare the 73-win Warriors to the our current Wolves is laughable. My point, which you seemed to gloss over, was that the team has faltered against lesser opponents with a supposed superior player (Gobert) available. You would think there would be an uplift having him back.

[Klomp]

A one-off? Only two of their losses were to teams with at least 45 wins. The Warriors also lost to 33-49 Milwaukee, 33-49 Denver and 17-65 Lakers.

So three other games over the entire season...

Again, trying to compare the 73-win Warriors to the our current Wolves is laughable. My point, which you seemed to gloss over, was that the team has faltered against lesser opponents with a supposed superior player (Gobert) available. You would think there would be an uplift having him back.

Five of their nine losses to teams .400 or worse I'd argue is fairly significant for a team with a .890 win percentage

[TheZachAttack]

I still think that this right here needs to be the biggest takeaway from this season and even the biggest takeaway from the trade.

Honestly, I'm starting to lean into the idea that Rudy Gobert should be given more credit for his role in the defensive improvements of Anthony Edwards and even Jaden McDaniels. They are at a new level this year. Maybe it's normal development, but it feels accelerated. Also, while it may not feel like Rudy has impacted the game as much as he would in Utah, that might just be because of his teammates' defensive contributions.

As to the underlined, it is.

You are more optimistic than most (i.e. your resistance to fire Ryan Saunders despite his obvious failings), but giving Gobert credit for that is ludicrous.

Explain to me how the Wolves can win against the Rockets (January 21) without Gobert and then proceed to lose the following matchup (January 23) with him. Similar case in defeating Golden State without Gobert only to fall the next game (Detroit) with him. He should, after all, elevate his teammates, especially against the dross in the NBA, no?

The Wolves can win games without Gobert (you may even argue at a similar level to with Gobert) but the Wolves defense in non-Gobert games is near the worst in the league. With him, it's near the best in the league especially in the half court and at the rim. To the extent that they aren't it's mostly due to a combination of issues related to rebounding and lots of TOs on offense leading to fastbreaks and lack of structure on defense.

[TheZachAttack]

A one-off? Only two of their losses were to teams with at least 45 wins. The Warriors also lost to 33-49 Milwaukee, 33-49 Denver and 17-65 Lakers.

So three other games over the entire season...

Again, trying to compare the 73-win Warriors to the our current Wolves is laughable. My point, which you seemed to gloss over, was that the team has faltered against lesser opponents with a supposed superior player (Gobert) available. You would think there would be an uplift having him back.

Five of their nine losses to teams .400 or worse I'd argue is fairly significant for a team with a .890 win percentage

Worth calling out that the Grizzlies and Denver and even the Clippers are all like 10-12 wins and 2-3 losses against these types of teams. We have 7 losses.

[deepestblue]

In a world where the trade never happened, this team would likely be a DISTANT thirteenth seed in the Western Conference, with the injuries that they have sustained. Stating that the trade is an abject failure when the team is performing better than the previous season despite their All-NBA player going down is honestly wild to me.

And ultimately the bottom line is giving Ant meaningful games so he doesn't feel compelled to leave. I'm back in the "IN" column on the trade.