Trade Talk (Part Thirteen): 2023 Offseason Edition

[Devilzsidewalk]

Insanity that people wouldn't trade kat for lillard. Dame is one of the great playoff performers of the past 30 years and kat is the exact opposite. If you swapped out kat for dame this past series against the Nuggets they go at least 6 games and could of easily won

I wouldn't be mad at a KAT for Dame trade, but I'm worried what TC might send in addition to KAT. I also think realistically, you probably need more than a season to fully develop the chemistry, but you're immediately on the clock with Gobert and Dame's age. Even prime Lebron/Wade/Bosh needed that second season before they figured it out to their full potential, but we're going to do it with 33 yo Dame and 22 yo Ant? Seems unlikely. So now you're talking 32 yo Gobert, 36 yo Conley (if he even returns) and 34 yo Dame...it's just not a slam dunk.

And then there's still the cap issue - it doesn't solve the luxury tax concerns. In fact they get a little worse.

[TimberKat]

Well, Dame doesn't want to come here. If POR is rebuilding, they actually would value JMcD more than Towns. If Towns go out, it would be a complicated 3 or 4 team deal. So, yes nothing is really going to happen

[SO_MONEY]

Well, Dame doesn't want to come here. If POR is rebuilding, they actually would value JMcD more than Towns. If Towns go out, it would be a complicated 3 or 4 team deal. So, yes nothing is really going to happen

The only thing I could realistically see, if MN wanted to get involved, would be to move Rudy to a team for salary Portland doesn't want in likely a 4 team deal.

[minimus]

It doesn't have to be Towns for Dame. Could also be JMac + salary ( not popular, but possible), Gobert for Dame. I actually think Towns have a higher trade value due to Dame's age and contract in 26/27. I wouldn't give up both Towns + Conley unless the trade include a real starting pwf. Maybe Towns + Conley for Dame + Grant but Grant's new contract is bad too.

1. There is no world where the Portland Trailblazers are trading Damian Lillard for Rudy Gobert, and there is no team that will pay for Minnesota to get Damian Lillard in a three-way. The conversation would start with Karl-Anthony Towns. Full stop.

2. Jerami Grant cannot be traded for until mid-season. He has agreed to a five year deal, which cannot be transitioned into a sign-and-trade.

Again, I don’t see a likely scenario where Damian Lillard ends up in Minnesota in any context, but if he did, Karl-Anthony Towns is the only option that would make sense.

Not saying we want to do this but could we trade Conley+JMcD+KA+our picks this year and a couple pick swap for Dame?

First rule, no MCD trade is allowed here. Second rule, any trade should fit Edwards timeline. Third rule, we can't bring any superstar on superstar contract here, it is literally illegal under new CBA to have three star on max contracts.

[shrink]

What picks can Minnesota trade

Their first round picks are encumbered. Seven years out there is a pick, but because of Stepian (and the wording on the protections of other picks), the best they can likely do is pickswap it.

[shrink]

Apparently Chris Haynes said the Wolves are out because we refused to include Towns in the deal.

So we probably floated Gobert, they said nah, we said OK, bye.

Ironically, POR posters on the Trade Board poopoo’ed KAT because they said they needed defense.

[shrink]

I’m surprised by Wolves fans that want to trade Dame for KAT. KAT is 27 and his contract is though his prime. Lillard turns 33 in a couple weeks. Dame is a better player right now, but over the length of that deal, I think Towns will be a much better player.

This deal also makes our financial position weaker. Dame costs $9 mil more this year, even in 24-25, then $6 mil more in 25-26 and in 26-27. Towns has a PO in 27-28, but that’s a long time from now. If MIN trades Towns, it’s not going to be to get older and more expensive. Moreover, the internet fake trades I see having us take on 3 years of Nurkic as well, which is useless behind Gobert and Naz.

Btw, Towns is a pretty damn good pairing for Ant. He can easily score inside and outside, opening the floor for Ant’s inside and outside game. He also seems to prefer being a second banana, although this was usually not an option with years of bad talent beside him. He also wants to be here, and that’s critical compared to stars of this level who can force trades. Plus, any player of Towns talent that is brought in may not be comfortable letting this be Ant’s team - KAT seems exceptionally comfortable finally getting to be a second banana.

[minimus]

I’m surprised by Wolves fans that want to trade Dame for KAT. KAT is 27 and his contract is though his prime. Lillard turns 33 in a couple weeks. Dame is a better player right now, but over the length of that deal, I think Towns will be a much better player.

That's correct. But Dame is much better that Towns right now. In many areas he is an elite offensive player. He is probably the best win-now player available right now. MIA with Butler and Bam are an ideal fit for him.


Most Efficient in Isolation (min 2 ISOs per 75 poss)

1. Kyrie: 1.18 ppp—5.1 ISOs/75
2. Dame: 1.13—5.0

Most Pull-Up 3PAs this season:

1. Doncic: 459 attempts—34.4%
2. Lillard: 427—37.2%

*Fouls drawn on the highest % of their drives

1. Giannis—15.9%
2. Paolo—13.6%
3. Jalen Green—13.1%
4. SGA—12.1%
5. Sexton—11.94%
6. LaVine—11.9%
7. Ja—11.8%
8. Dame—11.2%

[TwolvesFanRome]

There is 0,001% chance that Twolves acquire Dame...

And this is impossible because JMcdaniels would be thrown in...and I can't accept Kat+JMcD for Lillard..

[TimberKat]

First rule, no MCD trade is allowed here. Second rule, any trade should fit Edwards timeline. Third rule, we can't bring any superstar on superstar contract here, it is literally illegal under new CBA to have three star on max contracts.

How does PHX managed to put 2 supermax and 2 max on roster?

[shrink]

First rule, no MCD trade is allowed here. Second rule, any trade should fit Edwards timeline. Third rule, we can't bring any superstar on superstar contract here, it is literally illegal under new CBA to have three star on max contracts.

How does PHX managed to put 2 supermax and 2 max on roster?

The prior CBA’s had limitations on the number of max deals a team could have. It was raised from 1 to 2 after David Kahn alienated Kevin Love, saving him he max deal for Rubio. But when that rule changes, they put limitations on where you got them. You probably recall the teams that were ineligible to receive Ben Simmons.

The current CBA has eliminated all the restrictions on max deals.

[minimus]

First rule, no MCD trade is allowed here. Second rule, any trade should fit Edwards timeline. Third rule, we can't bring any superstar on superstar contract here, it is literally illegal under new CBA to have three star on max contracts.

How does PHX managed to put 2 supermax and 2 max on roster?

Well, technically you can bring another star here on max contract. But penalties will be huge.

PHO have already invested everything in KD who might have 1-2 seasons left, so they went all in. A smart move. They also have a new owner who might underestimate new CBA penalties for super teams. Will see, my prediction is that whole situation will be totally different in a year starting from now.

[TimberKat]

Apparently Chris Haynes said the Wolves are out because we refused to include Towns in the deal.

So we probably floated Gobert, they said nah, we said OK, bye.

Ironically, POR posters on the Trade Board poopoo’ed KAT because they said they needed defense.

Yes, I won't trade Towns either. I do JMcD. We love JMcD but you can't tell me he is better than Maxey, Harden or Herro (that is the price for Dame). We were already all in with Gobert trade. A line up of Gobert, Towns, Brown, Ant, Dame, and KA, Naz, NAW off the bench could compete with any team. Bring on MJ or the James family.

[guest81]

I’m surprised by Wolves fans that want to trade Dame for KAT. KAT is 27 and his contract is though his prime. Lillard turns 33 in a couple weeks. Dame is a better player right now, but over the length of that deal, I think Towns will be a much better player.

This deal also makes our financial position weaker. Dame costs $9 mil more this year, even in 24-25, then $6 mil more in 25-26 and in 26-27. Towns has a PO in 27-28, but that’s a long time from now. If MIN trades Towns, it’s not going to be to get older and more expensive. Moreover, the internet fake trades I see having us take on 3 years of Nurkic as well, which is useless behind Gobert and Naz.

Btw, Towns is a pretty damn good pairing for Ant. He can easily score inside and outside, opening the floor for Ant’s inside and outside game. He also seems to prefer being a second banana, although this was usually not an option with years of bad talent beside him. He also wants to be here, and that’s critical compared to stars of this level who can force trades. Plus, any player of Towns talent that is brought in may not be comfortable letting this be Ant’s team - KAT seems exceptionally comfortable finally getting to be a second banana.

Where do you get this that Towns is comfortable being the second banana?

[Wolves21]

Its beyond obvious that KAT is going to be traded more then likely in the next week or two.You can get more value moving him this off season then next.Anyone with half a brain knows we can't keep ANT,Towns,Gobert,McDaniels together when three are on MAX deals that really kick in for the '24 season and McDaniels more then likely making $20M-$25M per year.

ideally we could find away to trade both Towns & Gobert and get back and all-star level talent in their 20's that can be a tag team partner with ANT moving forward. I think the ideal way to build a team going forward is having two MAX or Super MAX guys only and building the rest of the roster around them on none overpriced deals.

I would look at the likes of SGA,Brown,Ingram,Maxey...ect as the type of player to pair with ANT moving forward(yes I know harder to pull off without picks but teams would be interested in Towns & McDaniels)

[SO_MONEY]

I’m surprised by Wolves fans that want to trade Dame for KAT. KAT is 27 and his contract is though his prime. Lillard turns 33 in a couple weeks. Dame is a better player right now, but over the length of that deal, I think Towns will be a much better player.

This deal also makes our financial position weaker. Dame costs $9 mil more this year, even in 24-25, then $6 mil more in 25-26 and in 26-27. Towns has a PO in 27-28, but that’s a long time from now. If MIN trades Towns, it’s not going to be to get older and more expensive. Moreover, the internet fake trades I see having us take on 3 years of Nurkic as well, which is useless behind Gobert and Naz.

Btw, Towns is a pretty damn good pairing for Ant. He can easily score inside and outside, opening the floor for Ant’s inside and outside game. He also seems to prefer being a second banana, although this was usually not an option with years of bad talent beside him. He also wants to be here, and that’s critical compared to stars of this level who can force trades. Plus, any player of Towns talent that is brought in may not be comfortable letting this be Ant’s team - KAT seems exceptionally comfortable finally getting to be a second banana.

Where do you get this that Towns is comfortable being the second banana?

By watching his general malaise...?

[twolves31]

Its beyond obvious that KAT is going to be traded more then likely in the next week or two.You can get more value moving him this off season then next.Anyone with half a brain knows we can't keep ANT,Towns,Gobert,McDaniels together when three are on MAX deals that really kick in for the '24 season and McDaniels more then likely making $20M-$25M per year.

ideally we could find away to trade both Towns & Gobert and get back and all-star level talent in their 20's that can be a tag team partner with ANT moving forward. I think the ideal way to build a team going forward is having two MAX or Super MAX guys only and building the rest of the roster around them on none overpriced deals.

I would look at the likes of SGA,Brown,Ingram,Maxey...ect as the type of player to pair with ANT moving forward(yes I know harder to pull off without picks but teams would be interested in Towns & McDaniels)

Unless Ant makes All NBA next year and McDaniels makes 43,565,500 Kat/Gobert/Ant/McDaniels will cost less than Durant/Beal/Booker/Ayton. If Ant doesn't make all NBA and McDaniels starts out closer to 25 million we will be paying around 20-25 million less than Phoenix is on their big 4. Does that mean Arod and Lore are going to be willing to pay that, no but it doesn't mean Kat is getting traded for sure.

[shrink]

Where do you get this that Towns is comfortable being the second banana?

I’ve laid this out before, but:

1. Towns best season statistically was when Jimmy was here, where he was third on the team in FGA’s. That year, he was the #2 player in the NBA in Win Shares, behind only James Harden.

2. When have we ever heard Towns complain a single word about other players (whether it was Butler or Wiggins or Ant) when coaches attempted to maximize them at his expense? In fact, Towns has been the ultimate company man in every press conference., even when surrounded with some pretty awful teams.

3. Coach after coach has wanted Towns to increase his FGA’s because he was so efficient.

4. Name one other player the league would embrace their team bringing in a player to take his position, right after he won All NBA there? And if you recall, KAT was the one that was working extra hard to feed Gobert at the beginning of the season, to “make him feel comfortable.”

5. Towns is a dork, and sensitive to every bad word he hears about himself. He does not have the connection with the media, or the fans, that Ant has. He thinks the stain on him comes off if the team wins.

[shrink]

Its beyond obvious that KAT is going to be traded more then likely in the next week or two.You can get more value moving him this off season then next.Anyone with half a brain knows we can't keep ANT,Towns,Gobert,McDaniels together when three are on MAX deals that really kick in for the '24 season and McDaniels more then likely making $20M-$25M per year.

This is not the way to make any point.

That said, I think you’re wrong on this. I would be very surprised if Towns is traded in the next two weeks. You may see it nearer the trade deadline, and only if MIN is struggling. We are not seeing teams being scared off by the huge new penalties of the superlux as expected.

I suppose it’s possible, but the complete lack of chatter from either the wolves or any of the possible destinations, for a player of this caliber, is pretty unlikely.

[TimberKat]

Where do you get this that Towns is comfortable being the second banana?

I’ve laid this out before, but:

1. Towns best season statistically was when Jimmy was here, where he was third on the team in FGA’s. That year, he was the #2 player in the NBA in Win Shares, behind only James Harden.

2. When have we ever heard Towns complain a single word about other players (whether it was Butler or Wiggins or Ant) when coaches attempted to maximize them at his expense? In fact, Towns has been the ultimate company man in every press conference., even when surrounded with some pretty awful teams.

3. Coach after coach has wanted Towns to increase his FGA’s because he was so efficient.

4. Name one other player the league would embrace their team bringing in a player to take his position, right after he won All NBA there? And if you recall, KAT was the one that was working extra hard to feed Gobert at the beginning of the season, to “make him feel comfortable.”

5. Towns is a dork, and sensitive to every bad word he hears about himself. He does not have the connection with the media, or the fans, that Ant has. He thinks the stain on him comes off if the team wins.

I agree with your point of Towns with other stars and never gets this first or second or third banana stuff. There are many teams with multiple stars. Is KG, Pierce, or Allen 1st Banana? Did DWade want LBJ in Miami? I also don't see it as Gobert taking Towns' position. Is LBJ or Davis the power forward? Is Kawhi or PG the SF? Is it just Wolves had been so lacking that we don't know what to make of a team with multiple star players? Ultimately the banana stuff sort itself out in real games, unless it between Green and Poole