The D'Angelo Russell Thread

[KGdaBom]

predictons
1. Russell will play for the Wolves all year barring any time missed to injury.
2. Real GM posters will whine/complain about Russell all year.

[shrink]

Okay, now that we are in Bizarro World ..brace yourself ..

I am wondering if we should extend D’Angelo Russell?

Yes, this is still shrink behind the keyboard, and I’m not typing while being held at gunpoint. My thinking here is that while everyone focuses on the fit between Rudy and KAT, DLo probably couldn’t have received a better fitting piece, on both ends of the court. Defense is, and will always be, a shortcoming for Russell, but having the multi-Defensive Player of the Year backing him up will help him immensely. But even better, I think a DLo-Gobert pick and roll will shine. Gobert is already great at it with tremendous timing (.718 FG% last year!), and Russell can certainly pass. The pick and roll never ran quite right with he and KAT, since both would prefer to pop - Gobert is a roll threat. And on top of all this, Gobert is great at setting screens.

I predict a really good year for DLo offensively. We don’t need to worry any more about maintaining max cap space next year. I know this is a shock, but do we lock him up now, before his price goes up? Maybe three years, $20 a year?

[KGdaBom]

Okay, now that we are in Bizarro World ..brace yourself ..

I am wondering if we should extend D’Angelo Russell.

Yes, this is still shrink behind the keyboard, and I’m not typing while being held at gunpoint. My thinking here is that while everyone focuses on the fit between Rudy and KAT, DLo probably couldn’t have received a better fitting piece to this team, on both ends of the court. Defense is, and will always be, a shortcoming for Russell, but having the multi-Defensive Player of the Year backing him up will help him immensely. But even better, I think a DLo-Gobert pick and roll will shine. Gobert is already great at it with tremendous timing (.718 FG% last year!), and Russell can certainly pass. The pick and roll never ran quite right with he and KAT, since both would prefer to pop - Gobert is a roll threat. And on top of all this, Gobert is great at setting screens.

I predict a really good year for DLo offensively. We don’t need to worry any more about maintaining max cap space next year. I know this is a shock, but do we lock him up now, before his price goes up? Maybe three years, $20 a year?

I'm shocked this is coming from you, but yes. I would do 3 years at $20 but isn't that below the vet minimum?
I know you meant million on that. I don't think Russell would sign for that. I think it will take more.

[winforlose]

Okay, now that we are in Bizarro World ..brace yourself ..

I am wondering if we should extend D’Angelo Russell.

Yes, this is still shrink behind the keyboard, and I’m not typing while being held at gunpoint. My thinking here is that while everyone focuses on the fit between Rudy and KAT, DLo probably couldn’t have received a better fitting piece to this team, on both ends of the court. Defense is, and will always be, a shortcoming for Russell, but having the multi-Defensive Player of the Year backing him up will help him immensely. But even better, I think a DLo-Gobert pick and roll will shine. Gobert is already great at it with tremendous timing (.718 FG% last year!), and Russell can certainly pass. The pick and roll never ran quite right with he and KAT, since both would prefer to pop - Gobert is a roll threat. And on top of all this, Gobert is great at setting screens.

I predict a really good year for DLo offensively. We don’t need to worry any more about maintaining max cap space next year. I know this is a shock, but do we lock him up now, before his price goes up? Maybe three years, $20 a year?

I think the real question is do you pay him 30, (5 to 7 more than he is worth,) for fear that he walks next year and no one will sign and trade for any significant value for him.

[SO_MONEY]

Okay, now that we are in Bizarro World ..brace yourself ..

I am wondering if we should extend D’Angelo Russell.

Yes, this is still shrink behind the keyboard, and I’m not typing while being held at gunpoint. My thinking here is that while everyone focuses on the fit between Rudy and KAT, DLo probably couldn’t have received a better fitting piece to this team, on both ends of the court. Defense is, and will always be, a shortcoming for Russell, but having the multi-Defensive Player of the Year backing him up will help him immensely. But even better, I think a DLo-Gobert pick and roll will shine. Gobert is already great at it with tremendous timing (.718 FG% last year!), and Russell can certainly pass. The pick and roll never ran quite right with he and KAT, since both would prefer to pop - Gobert is a roll threat. And on top of all this, Gobert is great at setting screens.

I predict a really good year for DLo offensively. We don’t need to worry any more about maintaining max cap space next year. I know this is a shock, but do we lock him up now, before his price goes up? Maybe three years, $20 a year?

I don't know if you can use logic anymore. Yes it makes sense but that doesn't mean anything.

[SO_MONEY]

Okay, now that we are in Bizarro World ..brace yourself ..

I am wondering if we should extend D’Angelo Russell.

Yes, this is still shrink behind the keyboard, and I’m not typing while being held at gunpoint. My thinking here is that while everyone focuses on the fit between Rudy and KAT, DLo probably couldn’t have received a better fitting piece to this team, on both ends of the court. Defense is, and will always be, a shortcoming for Russell, but having the multi-Defensive Player of the Year backing him up will help him immensely. But even better, I think a DLo-Gobert pick and roll will shine. Gobert is already great at it with tremendous timing (.718 FG% last year!), and Russell can certainly pass. The pick and roll never ran quite right with he and KAT, since both would prefer to pop - Gobert is a roll threat. And on top of all this, Gobert is great at setting screens.

I predict a really good year for DLo offensively. We don’t need to worry any more about maintaining max cap space next year. I know this is a shock, but do we lock him up now, before his price goes up? Maybe three years, $20 a year?

I think the real question is do you pay him 30, (5 to 7 more than he is worth,) for fear that he walks next year and no one will sign and trade for any significant value for him.

Why does it matter what they pay him? It is not your money and it is not like it matters if he is a bad contract other than save ownership money. You are kind of worrying about things that used to matter.

[winforlose]

Okay, now that we are in Bizarro World ..brace yourself ..

I am wondering if we should extend D’Angelo Russell.

Yes, this is still shrink behind the keyboard, and I’m not typing while being held at gunpoint. My thinking here is that while everyone focuses on the fit between Rudy and KAT, DLo probably couldn’t have received a better fitting piece to this team, on both ends of the court. Defense is, and will always be, a shortcoming for Russell, but having the multi-Defensive Player of the Year backing him up will help him immensely. But even better, I think a DLo-Gobert pick and roll will shine. Gobert is already great at it with tremendous timing (.718 FG% last year!), and Russell can certainly pass. The pick and roll never ran quite right with he and KAT, since both would prefer to pop - Gobert is a roll threat. And on top of all this, Gobert is great at setting screens.

I predict a really good year for DLo offensively. We don’t need to worry any more about maintaining max cap space next year. I know this is a shock, but do we lock him up now, before his price goes up? Maybe three years, $20 a year?

I think the real question is do you pay him 30, (5 to 7 more than he is worth,) for fear that he walks next year and no one will sign and trade for any significant value for him.

Why does it matter what they pay him? It is not your money and it is not like it matters if he is a bad contract other than save ownership money.

It matters because there is a salary cap. Even with a soft cap I doubt the new owners are going to go crazy in the luxury tax. Especially when in a few years the repeater tax kicks in and they pay more tax than most teams pay payroll. Even with the best big 3 in the NBA you still need good role players and good semi starts or developing stars to win.

[shrink]

Okay, now that we are in Bizarro World ..brace yourself ..

I am wondering if we should extend D’Angelo Russell.

Yes, this is still shrink behind the keyboard, and I’m not typing while being held at gunpoint. My thinking here is that while everyone focuses on the fit between Rudy and KAT, DLo probably couldn’t have received a better fitting piece to this team, on both ends of the court. Defense is, and will always be, a shortcoming for Russell, but having the multi-Defensive Player of the Year backing him up will help him immensely. But even better, I think a DLo-Gobert pick and roll will shine. Gobert is already great at it with tremendous timing (.718 FG% last year!), and Russell can certainly pass. The pick and roll never ran quite right with he and KAT, since both would prefer to pop - Gobert is a roll threat. And on top of all this, Gobert is great at setting screens.

I predict a really good year for DLo offensively. We don’t need to worry any more about maintaining max cap space next year. I know this is a shock, but do we lock him up now, before his price goes up? Maybe three years, $20 a year?

I think the real question is do you pay him 30, (5 to 7 more than he is worth,) for fear that he walks next year and no one will sign and trade for any significant value for him.

Why does it matter what they pay him? It is not your money and it is not like it matters if he is a bad contract other than save ownership money. You are kind of worrying about things that used to matter.

As fans, we should worry because bad contracts may keep the owners less likely to make necessary corrections, the team faces financial limitations under the CBA, and it leaves us with players we can’t trade for value.

[SO_MONEY]

I think the real question is do you pay him 30, (5 to 7 more than he is worth,) for fear that he walks next year and no one will sign and trade for any significant value for him.

Why does it matter what they pay him? It is not your money and it is not like it matters if he is a bad contract other than save ownership money.

It matters because there is a salary cap. Even with a soft cap I doubt the new owners are going to go crazy in the luxury tax. Especially when in a few years the repeater tax kicks in and they pay more tax than most teams pay payroll. Even with the best big 3 in the NBA you still need good role players and good semi starts or developing stars to win.

It matters to ownership, not you. Either they keep him or they don't. If they don't it will be a hole we will probably never fill without complete and total luck or creating another hole. Our cap situation is already unfavorable and we are short on draft capital....it will be this way for a while. It seems to me they backed themselves into a corner. Though it probably means we will have jmac start for all I know.

[winforlose]

I think the real question is do you pay him 30, (5 to 7 more than he is worth,) for fear that he walks next year and no one will sign and trade for any significant value for him.

Why does it matter what they pay him? It is not your money and it is not like it matters if he is a bad contract other than save ownership money. You are kind of worrying about things that used to matter.

As fans, we should worry because bad contracts may keep the owners less likely to make necessary corrections, the team faces financial limitations under the CBA, and it leaves us with players we can’t trade for value.

Well Shrink, would you pay him 30 to keep him?

[SO_MONEY]

I think the real question is do you pay him 30, (5 to 7 more than he is worth,) for fear that he walks next year and no one will sign and trade for any significant value for him.

Why does it matter what they pay him? It is not your money and it is not like it matters if he is a bad contract other than save ownership money. You are kind of worrying about things that used to matter.

As fans, we should worry because bad contracts may keep the owners less likely to make necessary corrections, the team faces financial limitations under the CBA, and it leaves us with players we can’t trade for value.

We are pretty much in a situation we can't correct as is. If we had the flexibility to reverse course it is one thing, but we don't. I don't think you can apply logic anymore. They sign him or they don't. If they don't it is basically counterintuitive but I don't think there is some guiding rationale...so they just might trade him for bench players or let him expire...we just can't predict things. You could get a good contract, bad contract, or a hole ect...

[shrink]

Why does it matter what they pay him? It is not your money and it is not like it matters if he is a bad contract other than save ownership money. You are kind of worrying about things that used to matter.

As fans, we should worry because bad contracts may keep the owners less likely to make necessary corrections, the team faces financial limitations under the CBA, and it leaves us with players we can’t trade for value.

Well Shrink, would you pay him 30 to keep him?

Tough call! As I think about it, I couldn’t force myself to go above $25. 3 for $72 is about my limit.

Strangely, he might suddenly become worth that deal!

(Btw, even after I forced myself to make that post, you saw a way to make me squirm even more, Bravo, winforlose!)

[winforlose]

As fans, we should worry because bad contracts may keep the owners less likely to make necessary corrections, the team faces financial limitations under the CBA, and it leaves us with players we can’t trade for value.

Well Shrink, would you pay him 30 to keep him?

Tough call! As I think about it, I couldn’t force myself to go above $25. 3 for $72 is about my limit.

Strangely, he might suddenly become worth that deal!

(Btw, even after I forced myself to make that post, you saw a way to make me squirm even more, Bravo, winforlose!)

I can do it again. The cap went up 11 mil this year. No one expected that big a jump. Early estimates place the cap around 175 when the new tv deal gets done. Might be even higher if revenues are creeping up. In the scheme of things is it worth risking losing Dlo for nothing over 10-18 million? Worse yet, what if losing Dlo and not having that extra star power outside the big 3 is the mistake that unravels the sweater as it were. Is it worth blowing up a super team to stick it to Dlo?

[SO_MONEY]

As fans, we should worry because bad contracts may keep the owners less likely to make necessary corrections, the team faces financial limitations under the CBA, and it leaves us with players we can’t trade for value.

Well Shrink, would you pay him 30 to keep him?

Tough call! As I think about it, I couldn’t force myself to go above $25. 3 for $72 is about my limit.

Strangely, he might suddenly become worth that deal!

(Btw, even after I forced myself to make that post, you saw a way to make me squirm even more, Bravo, winforlose!)

I really don't care what they do, but if they don't spend to keep him PG will be a weakness we would have trouble addressing and the team would be worse as a result. It basically could come down to subpar or unproven PG play or a bad contract. After putting 80mil into the 5 per season only to gut PG would honestly be comical at that point. But who knows.

[shrink]

Well Shrink, would you pay him 30 to keep him?

Tough call! As I think about it, I couldn’t force myself to go above $25. 3 for $72 is about my limit.

Strangely, he might suddenly become worth that deal!

(Btw, even after I forced myself to make that post, you saw a way to make me squirm even more, Bravo, winforlose!)

I can do it again. The cap went up 11 mil this year. No one expected that big a jump. Early estimates place the cap around 175 when the new tv deal gets done. Might be even higher if revenues are creeping up. In the scheme of things is it worth risking losing Dlo for nothing over 10-18 million? Worse yet, what if losing Dlo and not having that extra star power outside the big 3 is the mistake that unravels the sweater as it were. Is it worth blowing up a super team to stick it to Dlo?

This year the cap is only $1 mil higher than projected .. Jake Fischer blew the language when he announced it. But yes, I agree with you that the new TV deal could see a 50% increase in the cap, and even with cap smoothing this time, the cap will likely grow at a greater rate than the 8% raises that the CBA allows. However, on a three year deal, the first two will be before the tv money re-sets the baseline.

I think DLo will see that there isn’t a big market for his services from other team, and the chance to be successful in MIN is something he’d want to maintain. But you and So Money are right - we can’t replace him with another starter. Is Ant going to be able to playmake? Neither side has all the leverage.

I don’t know. I just can’t give a guy $30 mil if we benched him in the last quarter of the critical Game 6.

[winforlose]

Tough call! As I think about it, I couldn’t force myself to go above $25. 3 for $72 is about my limit.

Strangely, he might suddenly become worth that deal!

(Btw, even after I forced myself to make that post, you saw a way to make me squirm even more, Bravo, winforlose!)

I can do it again. The cap went up 11 mil this year. No one expected that big a jump. Early estimates place the cap around 175 when the new tv deal gets done. Might be even higher if revenues are creeping up. In the scheme of things is it worth risking losing Dlo for nothing over 10-18 million? Worse yet, what if losing Dlo and not having that extra star power outside the big 3 is the mistake that unravels the sweater as it were. Is it worth blowing up a super team to stick it to Dlo?

This year the cap is only $1 mil higher than projected .. Jake Fischer blew the language when he announced it. But yes, I agree with you that the new TV deal could see a 50% increase in the cap, and even with cap smoothing this time, the cap will likely grow at a greater rate than the 8% raises that the CBA allows. However, on a three year deal, the first two will be before the tv money re-sets the baseline.

I think DLo will see that there isn’t a big market for his services from other team, and the chance to be successful in MIN is something he’d want to maintain. But you and So Money are right - we can’t replace him with another starter. Is Ant going to be able to playmake? Neither side has all the leverage.

I don’t know. I just can’t give a guy $30 mil if we benched him in the last quarter of the critical Game 6.

Do we get to the play in much less the playoffs without Dlo? After KAT chocked in the play in game Dlo and Ant saved the day. Also remember the clutch Dlo who pulled off some unlikely wins (in Philly for example.) We didn’t exactly near miss the play in, but we did near miss the 6 seed, and a big part of that was Dlo (despite having a bad shooting year,) contributing when it mattered.

[King Malta]

Okay, now that we are in Bizarro World ..brace yourself ..

I am wondering if we should extend D’Angelo Russell?

Yes, this is still shrink behind the keyboard, and I’m not typing while being held at gunpoint. My thinking here is that while everyone focuses on the fit between Rudy and KAT, DLo probably couldn’t have received a better fitting piece to this team, on both ends of the court. Defense is, and will always be, a shortcoming for Russell, but having the multi-Defensive Player of the Year backing him up will help him immensely. But even better, I think a DLo-Gobert pick and roll will shine. Gobert is already great at it with tremendous timing (.718 FG% last year!), and Russell can certainly pass. The pick and roll never ran quite right with he and KAT, since both would prefer to pop - Gobert is a roll threat. And on top of all this, Gobert is great at setting screens.

I predict a really good year for DLo offensively. We don’t need to worry any more about maintaining max cap space next year. I know this is a shock, but do we lock him up now, before his price goes up? Maybe three years, $20 a year?

Good take and I feel very much the same as you in this regard.

As you say, I feel like DLo has benefitted more from this trade than almost any other player. Offensively he now has an excellent screener who's a legit PnR and lob threat, and behind him on defense he has one of the greatest defensive players of our generation. Also, he now has KAT lurking on the perimeter which assists him as far as having another kick out option on these PnRs or another shooter to cover if it's Ant initiating the PnR with DLo positioning to catch and shoot. It's a great outcome for him.

Also, I think he now becomes a more required piece for the team due to the lack of assets the wolves will now be willing to part with to upgrade the PG position. If DLo was to have gone out in this trade somehow, we'd have had very few ways to hit the market and upgrade at that spot due to the assets we've moved and the cap situation.

I'd personally be thrilled to extend him at 20 per as I feel that's probably where his true value sits, although we might have to up it a bit as he now has us over a barrel to a slight degree due to the lack of assets to upgrade as mentioned above. But perhaps that's not the end of the world? We're clearly now locked into this core of Ant, KAT and Gobert with DLO as support, maybe he gets something between 25-30 for 3-4 years to align with the rest of the core and we re-address the situation when he and Gobert are expiring.

[KGdaBom]

As fans, we should worry because bad contracts may keep the owners less likely to make necessary corrections, the team faces financial limitations under the CBA, and it leaves us with players we can’t trade for value.

Well Shrink, would you pay him 30 to keep him?

Tough call! As I think about it, I couldn’t force myself to go above $25. 3 for $72 is about my limit.

Strangely, he might suddenly become worth that deal!

(Btw, even after I forced myself to make that post, you saw a way to make me squirm even more, Bravo, winforlose!)

I thought I made you squirm first saying he wouldn't accept $20 million a year.

[winforlose]

Well Shrink, would you pay him 30 to keep him?

Tough call! As I think about it, I couldn’t force myself to go above $25. 3 for $72 is about my limit.

Strangely, he might suddenly become worth that deal!

(Btw, even after I forced myself to make that post, you saw a way to make me squirm even more, Bravo, winforlose!)

I thought I made you squirm first saying he wouldn't accept $20 million a year.

Even if you made him squirm I will make him puke with the realization that Dlo went from holding a pair of 2s to four of a kind. He has all the leverage in the world against the FO. We can try a sign and trade next year if he has a good year. He also might be willing to compromise if he wants the insurance that an extension buys him (an injury could cost him a year of prime earnings if it is serious.) All in all I think we need to accept that we must pay him and probably over pay him. To let a super team die over 10-20 mil is beyond silly, it is crazy.

[old school 34]

Tough call! As I think about it, I couldn’t force myself to go above $25. 3 for $72 is about my limit.

Strangely, he might suddenly become worth that deal!

(Btw, even after I forced myself to make that post, you saw a way to make me squirm even more, Bravo, winforlose!)

I thought I made you squirm first saying he wouldn't accept $20 million a year.

Even if you made him squirm I will make him puke with the realization that Dlo went from holding a pair of 2s to four of a kind. He has all the leverage in the world against the FO. We can try a sign and trade next year if he has a good year. He also might be willing to compromise if he wants the insurance that an extension buys him (an injury could cost him a year of prime earnings if it is serious.) All in all I think we need to accept that we must pay him and probably over pay him. To let a super team die over 10-20 mil is beyond silly, it is crazy.

While I agree that it would be stupid to let a super team go to waste. I'm not as quick to automatically assume he has all the power....

1. DLo has to see this as maybe no better a surrounding cast as possible for him to be successful. And if he wouldn't agree to a reasonable deal in an extension...are we so positive that his FA market will be so great...didn't have a strong trade market this offseason?

2. If we didn't keep him...wouldn't we next year still be under cap...not max money...but this would have to be a pretty favorable spot for a PG?

3. And it probably goes without saying for all of us...but are we 100% certain that both Finch & DLo can reconcile & be good after game 6 benching? Should be able to, but it's not automatic in today's nba?

4. While I don't want to train wreck the super team by losing him...I can't extend him & allow him to continue his 4th quarter hero ball ways either...just train wrecking it in a different way? His clutch shooting helps sometimes, but that confidence loses us games as well...when most of us are begging that those should be KAT or Ant shots sometimes?

5. Lastly, if extended...I would go the 3 yrs (which would be 4 then & coincide with Rudy's deal, right)....& can I make it one of those backward deals...where it decreases annually...maybe helps DLo take the paycut more gradually while helping us those last 2 yrs...where everyone's getting paid?

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