ImageImageImage

Identity crisis?

Moderators: Domejandro, Worm Guts, Calinks

Dewey
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,904
And1: 1,072
Joined: May 22, 2001

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#401 » by Dewey » Wed Oct 30, 2024 10:04 pm

minimus wrote:I wonder if that is kind of lowest starting point of the season:

- Randle did not play 9 months and has a new role/team
- Ant and Gobert are learning how to play next to Randle
- DDV has new role/team
- Reid has new role
- rookies needs to adapt to NBA game

Hahahaa!! Excuse master of 2024
Flip response to Love wanting out, "He has no reason to be upset, you're either a part of the problem or a part of the solution"
minimus
RealGM
Posts: 13,710
And1: 5,204
Joined: Jan 28, 2011
Location: Germany, Stuttgart area
 

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#402 » by minimus » Thu Oct 31, 2024 6:14 am

Dewey wrote:
minimus wrote:I wonder if that is kind of lowest starting point of the season:

- Randle did not play 9 months and has a new role/team
- Ant and Gobert are learning how to play next to Randle
- DDV has new role/team
- Reid has new role
- rookies needs to adapt to NBA game

Hahahaa!! Excuse master of 2024


Guest84
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,811
And1: 878
Joined: Dec 13, 2017
 

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#403 » by Guest84 » Thu Oct 31, 2024 11:51 pm

minimus
RealGM
Posts: 13,710
And1: 5,204
Joined: Jan 28, 2011
Location: Germany, Stuttgart area
 

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#404 » by minimus » Fri Nov 1, 2024 7:23 am

Guest84 wrote:Something or nothing?

https://youtu.be/76mEF_jLOjs?si=Xphl51P1AgHzMVIk

Lack communication is obvious. They need to clean up it. But I wouldn't put too much drama into it. Anderson, Towns and Edwards all had to adjust playing next to Gobert. I am sure you could find plenty of "ooooh, they don't listen to each other moments" However, once they Randle and Gobert are on the same page, they will be again a top defense.
Dewey
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,904
And1: 1,072
Joined: May 22, 2001

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#405 » by Dewey » Fri Nov 1, 2024 11:59 am

minimus wrote:
Guest84 wrote:Something or nothing?

https://youtu.be/76mEF_jLOjs?si=Xphl51P1AgHzMVIk

Lack communication is obvious. They need to clean up it. But I wouldn't put too much drama into it. Anderson, Towns and Edwards all had to adjust playing next to Gobert. I am sure you could find plenty of "ooooh, they don't listen to each other moments" However, once they Randle and Gobert are on the same page, they will be again a top defense.

Or … take away the excuses and they play like professional basketball players making millions over millions and get it right. A doctor making a fraction of the money has to get it right… but these clowns always have excuses
Flip response to Love wanting out, "He has no reason to be upset, you're either a part of the problem or a part of the solution"
frankenwolf
Senior
Posts: 550
And1: 493
Joined: Oct 06, 2008

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#406 » by frankenwolf » Fri Nov 1, 2024 12:30 pm

Dewey wrote:
minimus wrote:
Guest84 wrote:Something or nothing?

https://youtu.be/76mEF_jLOjs?si=Xphl51P1AgHzMVIk

Lack communication is obvious. They need to clean up it. But I wouldn't put too much drama into it. Anderson, Towns and Edwards all had to adjust playing next to Gobert. I am sure you could find plenty of "ooooh, they don't listen to each other moments" However, once they Randle and Gobert are on the same page, they will be again a top defense.

Or … take away the excuses and they play like professional basketball players making millions over millions and get it right. A doctor making a fraction of the money has to get it right… but these clowns always have excuses


Really?? A doctor has years to practice to get it right, yet they still call what he does practice. On a team, you have to get used to all the idiosyncrasies that each person has. This is not NBA2K where you just drop in a player and they immediately work together. It takes time to acclimate to those around you.
Your 2026-2027 NBA Champions!! :D
Klomp
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 69,369
And1: 22,786
Joined: Jul 08, 2005
Contact:
   

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#407 » by Klomp » Fri Nov 1, 2024 6:48 pm

minimus wrote:
Guest84 wrote:Something or nothing?

https://youtu.be/76mEF_jLOjs?si=Xphl51P1AgHzMVIk

Lack communication is obvious. They need to clean up it. But I wouldn't put too much drama into it. Anderson, Towns and Edwards all had to adjust playing next to Gobert. I am sure you could find plenty of "ooooh, they don't listen to each other moments" However, once they Randle and Gobert are on the same page, they will be again a top defense.

Agreed, my worry is at 3% at the most
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
minimus
RealGM
Posts: 13,710
And1: 5,204
Joined: Jan 28, 2011
Location: Germany, Stuttgart area
 

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#408 » by minimus » Fri Nov 1, 2024 7:52 pm

Klomp wrote:
minimus wrote:
Guest84 wrote:Something or nothing?

https://youtu.be/76mEF_jLOjs?si=Xphl51P1AgHzMVIk

Lack communication is obvious. They need to clean up it. But I wouldn't put too much drama into it. Anderson, Towns and Edwards all had to adjust playing next to Gobert. I am sure you could find plenty of "ooooh, they don't listen to each other moments" However, once they Randle and Gobert are on the same page, they will be again a top defense.

Agreed, my worry is at 3% at the most

Yeah. Nothing new.

Read on Twitter
Klomp
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 69,369
And1: 22,786
Joined: Jul 08, 2005
Contact:
   

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#409 » by Klomp » Fri Nov 1, 2024 8:03 pm

He has it in him. We just need to figure out how to re-engage it.

tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
Devilzsidewalk
RealGM
Posts: 32,027
And1: 6,049
Joined: Oct 09, 2005

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#410 » by Devilzsidewalk » Fri Nov 1, 2024 8:16 pm

Klomp wrote:He has it in him. We just need to figure out how to re-engage it.



he looks so athletic though, does he still have that kinda vertical explosion - he looks more floor-bound now. I'd be thrilled if he can just make quick reads on switches and slide his feet to keep players in front of him. He seems pretty good at getting shot contests though.
Image
shangrila
RealGM
Posts: 13,526
And1: 6,600
Joined: Dec 21, 2009
Location: Land of Aus
 

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#411 » by shangrila » Fri Nov 1, 2024 8:21 pm

A big part of their defensive issues right now is that they don't play a 2nd centre. Naz moved away from that last season and you can tell neither he nor Randle are used to making the rotations they need/want from the 5 spot.

I actually think Naz went too far with his weight loss. It was great that he was able to lose enough to play the 4 but coming at the cost of him realistically being able to play the 5 is a net negative.
Norseman79
Starter
Posts: 2,401
And1: 872
Joined: Jul 26, 2017
     

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#412 » by Norseman79 » Sat Nov 2, 2024 12:39 am

shangrila wrote:A big part of their defensive issues right now is that they don't play a 2nd centre. Naz moved away from that last season and you can tell neither he nor Randle are used to making the rotations they need/want from the 5 spot.

I actually think Naz went too far with his weight loss. It was great that he was able to lose enough to play the 4 but coming at the cost of him realistically being able to play the 5 is a net negative.


Huh, it's almost like some of us said this would be a problem all preseason and people argued we'd be fine. The lack of size, rebounding and paint protection is troubling
TimberKat
Head Coach
Posts: 6,075
And1: 3,059
Joined: Jul 02, 2022
         

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#413 » by TimberKat » Sat Nov 2, 2024 12:44 am

frankenwolf wrote:
Dewey wrote:
minimus wrote:Lack communication is obvious. They need to clean up it. But I wouldn't put too much drama into it. Anderson, Towns and Edwards all had to adjust playing next to Gobert. I am sure you could find plenty of "ooooh, they don't listen to each other moments" However, once they Randle and Gobert are on the same page, they will be again a top defense.

Or … take away the excuses and they play like professional basketball players making millions over millions and get it right. A doctor making a fraction of the money has to get it right… but these clowns always have excuses


Really?? A doctor has years to practice to get it right, yet they still call what he does practice. On a team, you have to get used to all the idiosyncrasies that each person has. This is not NBA2K where you just drop in a player and they immediately work together. It takes time to acclimate to those around you.

Practice? We are talking about practice? Now, I want to skip my next doctor appointment.
shrink
RealGM
Posts: 59,417
And1: 19,470
Joined: Sep 26, 2005

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#414 » by shrink » Sat Nov 2, 2024 5:24 am

Guest84 wrote:Something or nothing?

https://youtu.be/76mEF_jLOjs?si=Xphl51P1AgHzMVIk

So I had this as nothing, but then I thought ..

“Julius Randle has the cojones to argue with freakin’ Rudy Gobert about defense?”

Randle hasn’t done anything in his career defensively to deserve to say anything but “yes sir” to Gobert.

No problem now, and it’s likely to clear up, but it might indicate an attitude issue down the road.
minimus
RealGM
Posts: 13,710
And1: 5,204
Joined: Jan 28, 2011
Location: Germany, Stuttgart area
 

Identity crisis? 

Post#415 » by minimus » Sat Nov 2, 2024 9:33 am

1) MIN is top-3 both in EFG% and 3PT%, top-6 in 3PTA. Randle is surprisingly efficient as playmaker and shot maker. It is mostly based on unsustainable Randle, Ant and NAW efficiency as 3PT shooters, BUT I am sure, that DDV will shoot better than current 27%, MCD will shoot better than current 27%, will shoot better than current 29.6%.

Based on EFG and eye test we have a solid foundation for modern halfcourt offense.

2) MIN are bad at rebounding, boxing out and defending position (OPP FBP, OPP 2ND chance points), plus they are bottom in many hustle category like deflections

3) one big issue is bench play. When starters play, they are in top-10 in rebounds, when our bench plays they are 25th in rebounds. To me is something they need to figure out, our bench players still dont play fast enough, still dont recognise their advantages as fast pace group. In some sense they ARE a small ball unit, but they dont play like smallball unit AND get killed in defense like a small units do. Both Ingles and Conley are struggling mightily, I think at some point Finch will have to make a decision about their role and playing time.
minimus
RealGM
Posts: 13,710
And1: 5,204
Joined: Jan 28, 2011
Location: Germany, Stuttgart area
 

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#416 » by minimus » Sat Nov 2, 2024 4:07 pm

The playmaking duties are currently evenly distributed among Julius (7 assists), DDV (6 assists), Nickeil (5 assists), and Conley (4 assists). This, in turn, has allowed Edwards to take twice as many three point attempts: 6.7 three-point attempts last season to 13.4 attempts this season, with a conversion rate of 43.3% (!!!), mainly by creating for him more C&S opportunities

Read on Twitter


I guess this is how our offense transforms into post Conley offense. Integrating Randle and DDV is kind of first step in this direction. Integrating Dilly will be next big step.
User avatar
cupcakesnake
Senior Mod- WNBA
Senior Mod- WNBA
Posts: 15,719
And1: 32,323
Joined: Jul 21, 2016
 

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#417 » by cupcakesnake » Sat Nov 2, 2024 6:22 pm

minimus wrote:3) one big issue is bench play. When starters play, they are in top-10 in rebounds, when our bench plays they are 35th in rebounds. To me is something they need to figure out, our bench players still dont play fast enough, still dont recognise their advantages as fast pace group. In some sense they ARE a small ball unit, but they dont play like smallball unit AND get killed in defense like a small units do. Both Ingles and Conley are struggling mightily, I think at some point Finch will have to make a decision about their role and playing time.


The Naz/Randle lineups are very bad right now. Offensively it's fine, but defensively it's a complete mess. Last year the Naz/KAT lineups had their flaws, but they got by by being big and high effort. It culminated in that incredible playoff performance when Gobert sat out a game against Denver. Our dual-big lineups were always a defensive plus. (Plus we could play SloMo as a big whenver we wanted).

So far it's looking like we've lost that advantage. Gobert/Naz is still very good (60 minutes so far), but Gobert/Randle isn't good, and Naz/Randle is a complete disaster.

Our perimeter defense hasn't been amazing yet but I'm confident that's going to come along. I'm pretty shocked by how awful Randle's low effort style of defense breaks our system so far. We have a sad 119 Drtg (-2.7 net) in his 177 minutes. In 63 non-Randle minutes, we're 102.3 Drtg (+8.1 net). Yet everyone is raving about how his offensive style makes us look less clunky.
"Being in my home. I was watching pokemon for 5 hours."

Co-hosting with Harry Garris at The Underhand Freethrow Podcast
minimus
RealGM
Posts: 13,710
And1: 5,204
Joined: Jan 28, 2011
Location: Germany, Stuttgart area
 

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#418 » by minimus » Sat Nov 2, 2024 9:27 pm

cupcakesnake wrote:So far it's looking like we've lost that advantage. Gobert/Naz is still very good (60 minutes so far), but Gobert/Randle isn't good, and Naz/Randle is a complete disaster.


I'd not trust some defensive metrics since they are very noisy at the moment. Purely from roster construction point and rotation, I'd say that we can improve our defense by replacing Conley and Ingles minutes with Minott/Shannon minutes. But Conley still brings a lot in terms of building an offensive flow.
minimus
RealGM
Posts: 13,710
And1: 5,204
Joined: Jan 28, 2011
Location: Germany, Stuttgart area
 

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#419 » by minimus » Thu Nov 7, 2024 8:02 am



Once these group establishes an offensive rhythm I expect them to push pace and incorporate 1-2 young players (Minott, Rob/TJ) into rotation. More matchup hunting, more crossmatches, much more aggressive defense on perimeter.
Devilzsidewalk
RealGM
Posts: 32,027
And1: 6,049
Joined: Oct 09, 2005

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#420 » by Devilzsidewalk » Thu Nov 7, 2024 5:40 pm

minimus wrote:

Once these group establishes an offensive rhythm I expect them to push pace and incorporate 1-2 young players (Minott, Rob/TJ) into rotation. More matchup hunting, more crossmatches, much more aggressive defense on perimeter.


The movement and activity looks so tough to deal with. A constant barrage of deadly catch and shoot 3 point shooters running off screens and kickouts. It would be nice to see Jaden get in on this. I think they need to give him more non-Ant minutes so he can see the other side of offense than just being an outlet in the corner.
Image

Return to Minnesota Timberwolves