Identity crisis?

[Guest84]

Wolves talk towards the end

https://www.youtube.com/live/hWfQaUzcYiQ?si=f6O6H8JPQxFWdwI2

[minimus]

On one hand, you can say that Randle has been a highly efficient scorer in MIN

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On another hand, MIN is not top NBA team neither in defense nor offense, because of multiple areas when chemistry, effort and basketball awareness are lacking

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TOV% - 23rd
DREB% - 13th
PTS OFF TO - 26th
FBPS - 29th(!!!)
OPP PTS PAINT - 22nd

Hopefully, Randle can still improve his career low 6.9 rebounds per game and up his assist numbers and cut turnovers once he get a bit of chemistry with new teammates.

[frankenwolf]

On one hand, you can say that Randle has been a highly efficient scorer in MIN

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On another hand, MIN is not top NBA team neither in defense nor offense, because of multiple areas when chemistry, effort and basketball awareness are lacking

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TOV% - 23rd
DREB% - 13th
PTS OFF TO - 26th
FBPS - 29th(!!!)
OPP PTS PAINT - 22nd

Hopefully, Randle can still improve his career low 6.9 rebounds per game and up his assist numbers and cut turnovers once he get a bit of chemistry with new teammates.

I think he will. Trying to fit in with a new team is like meeting your future in-laws for the first time. You have to figure out what they like and don't like and try not to step on any toes or embarrass your future spouse.

[minimus]

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So attempting more threes and limiting opponent threes is one of keys to success in NBA. Is this our new found identity sustainable without Edwards going crazy from 3PT every night? This is also a question about Randle future in MIN: can he be an offensive hub/slasher who create open looks for others?

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TOV% - 23rd
DREB% - 13th
PTS OFF TO - 26th
FBPS - 29th(!!!)
OPP PTS PAINT - 22nd

After today game:

TOV% - 25rd
DREB% - 15th
PTS OFF TO - 23th
FBPS - 28th(!!!)
OPP PTS PAINT - 24th

Today was a very interesting test for this team: MIA is a coach team, they by far less talented and give up a ton of size, but they are playing high standard zone defense, high level execution in offense. MIN could not punish them inside today, Edwards had 6 turnovers, Randle and Conley both had 4. Same amount of personal fouls: MIA- 20 vs MIN - 20, but it might be the biggest collection of dumb fouls I have ever seen from this team. They had Edwards loose ball foul after not boxing out, which led to 2 FTs, Edwards clear path foul which led to two FTs AND MIA possesion, they had McDaniels foul on three point attempt - 3FTs, and NAW foul on Jovic which gave MIA win. Just horrible. Basically today MIN were antithesis of Joe Mazzulla’s obsession with dominating Games on the margins.

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Like Finch said (admitting that he messed up as well):

"We Had A Lot Of Little Plays That Hurt Us."

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To sum up:

One of pillars of our new identity in offense is based on high 3PA rate AND limiting opponents 3PA rate. MIN use all existing tools to keep shooting threes: for instance Gobert screens, Randle drive and kick game, Edwards improved shot, NAW consistency as 3&D player, Reid pick-n-pop game.

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Donte has not joined three point party yet, but he is contributing in so many areas such off ball movement, as passing, rebounding, hustling in defense. There is a hope that with more chemistry, this group will be able to sustain this offensive jump

However, there is a question what are other pillars of offense? Randle averages 21PPG, on 53-41-80, 4.6 APG, but his 6.9RPG are career low. I'd he can improve much in terms of scoring based on current roster configuration, BUT, I think he can improve as defensive rebounder where he often does not box out his player and as decision maker. This would be an easiest fix, HOWEVER, the biggest challange is Joe Mazzulla’s dominating Games on the margins:

- less stupid, frustration fouls
- control pace, execute, less live ball turnovers
- REBOUND as TEAM, box out, win 50/50 balls
- play physical, often it looks like the only tough players of the floor are NAW and Donte

Easier said than done, but MIN dont have size advantage anymore to rely 48 minutes, they lost Towns AND Anderson as defenders in first and second unit, and they tend to play much smaller when McDaniels and Gobert are on the bench or/and in foul trobule. Finch plays subs NAW for McDaniels and all of the sudden MIN have on the floor lineup with three small guards NAW-Donte-Conley, or lineups with Edwards playing at SF with Reid-Randle as bigs. Also I have to admit that Finch and his coaching staff are not on the same level as top tier coaches such as Kerr, Spoelstra, Budenholzer in terms of game plan, rotations and in game adjustment, not yet.


P.S. Some of Randle lapses in defense reminds me Towns struggles in first year with Rudy in MIN, particularly first game against PHO when Suns forced Towns to run through multiple screens chasing Cam Johnson and other shooters. Also I need to remind myself that current state of MIN defense reflects a very weak and inconsistent defense from main PoA defender McDaniels. The most consistent defenders right now are NAW and Donte, while McDaniels and Edwards are palying good defense only for stretches.

[minimus]

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A very interesting video.

[thinktank]

I applaud Steve Kerr for quickly embracing the rotation that works best verses the rotation he wants to work best.

The biggest inhibitor of any identity crisis would be Finch via his below average rotations. It's a real problem that has cost us one or maybe two wins already.

[minimus]

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This is how an undersized big should play in defense.

[Klomp]

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[Guest84]

Some thoughts...

First, I'm not sure I understand what the wolves' vision was for this team after last season. They identified they needed a PG and more wing talent. So they added Rob and TSJ. They then identified that Towns' contract wasn't worth keeping him long-term. However, this is where some of my confusion comes in...

If you're going to change the identity from a defense-first team to a more offense-centric team, why not keep the best shooter on the team? For the conspiracy theorists, was there pressure from the league to get Towns to NY to boost that market?

I wasn't sure what to do with Towns but didn't want to trade him for just whatever. I would've rather traded Rudy first. Which brings me to my next thought...Rudy is both underrated and overrated at the same time.

This team prob wouldn't even be a play-in team without him as currently constructed. However, his defense is also overrated in the sense that he gets challenged a lot at the rim and doesn't seem to stop anything anymore. It's so weird because as an anchor of the defense, he's invaluable but as a singular defender he's not that good if that makes sense?? Don't get me started on his offense.

We still don't have any good shooters on this team in my mind. Ant is improved, DDV is supposed to be great but if he's not making anything, what good is he? I think having Towns paired with Rob and TSJ would've been good for their development (offensively).

Regardless of his flaws, I would've preferred to run it back with the rooks and a potential smaller trade during the season. One more year of chemistry together with a bad taste in their mouth from being so close. Now, they barely look like a play-in team.

[Guest84]

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[shrink]

Some thoughts...

First, I'm not sure I understand what the wolves' vision was for this team after last season. They identified they needed a PG and more wing talent. So they added Rob and TSJ. They then identified that Towns' contract wasn't worth keeping him long-term. However, this is where some of my confusion comes in...

If you're going to change the identity from a defense-first team to a more offense-centric team, why not keep the best shooter on the team? For the conspiracy theorists, was there pressure from the league to get Towns to NY to boost that market?.

You are correct, his original plan was to add Dillingham and TSJ in the draft, and bring back the continuity of the top seven who had over-achieved last year. However, the plan changed when NYK eventually included DiVincenzo into a Randle deal. Randle, like KAT, is an offensively-oriented big man, more or a PF than Towns, and a big name as a two time All-NBA guy. DDV was supposed to replace KAT’s shooting, but both need minutes, and ate up those minutes we might have had for our rookies. Moreover, there was certainly a financial component here, getting off KAT’s longterm big money for Randle, plus getting three years of DDV on a cheap contract. The problem with trying to find money to keep Naz and NAW next year was to hide that it was a cost-cutting move. Casual fans don’t worry about payroll - they want a repeat of last year’s run. Adding Randle gives financial flexibility, plus the Knicks were likely the team that would give the most for Towns, so I understand Connelly’s thinking at the time.

Now however, the trade looks like a mistake - at least at the moment. Randle does not seem to want to get on board with last year’s defensive identity, and say what you will about Towns’ defensive issues, you could tell he was out there trying. DDV has been shooting poorly, though I suspect that’s a temporary issue. In fact, Finch got dealt a rough hand, trying to integrate two major players in such a short time, so again, this could be a temporary issue. But it’s been frustrating to see Conley struggle, and the inconsistent effort from many players on the team. I had hoped the first loss to POR would be a wake up call, but after losing again, I am worried. I hope Finch can find that special sauce of his, that has gotten the team to over-perform for three straight years.

[minimus]

I watched last two games and I should admit, that they are completely out of sync:

- at least two 8 sec violations
- 24 sec violations
- miscommunication turnovers when they tried to pass in the middle of the court without reason
- multiple turnovers when pass was a bit off, hence a shooter or roll man could not receive it clearly and shoot

I wish they had someone on the floor who can execute, take care of the ball and beat pressure. I mean they need someone to play this role 10-15 minutes per game, but without Conely, they have no one who can set table, organise offense. Dillinghham will be such player one day, although I wish Daishen Nix is a bit less erratic and more consistent as lead ballhandler, because he can play McLaughlin role this season

[BlacJacMac]

I just don't see how we can reconcile Finch's offensive vision with the roster we have.

I love a free-flowing offense as much as the next guy, but who on the team excels at it? I guess Conley, but he's 37 years old and a limited minutes/games player. Maybe Dillingham in another year or two?

We saw it last year as well. Our offense was never more than the sum of its parts. Ant and KAT are literally two of the elite offensive players in the league and they both struggled with it.

I wish Finch was a little more like Popovitch and a little less like Thibodeau. One guy has made his career adapting to the talent he has in any given year, the other has spent all of his trying to hammer square pegs into round holes.

[FrenchMinnyFan]

I just don't see how we can reconcile Finch's offensive vision with the roster we have.

I love a free-flowing offense as much as the next guy, but who on the team excels at it? I guess Conley, but he's 37 years old and a limited minutes/games player. Maybe Dillingham in another year or two?

We saw it last year as well. Our offense was never more than the sum of its parts. Ant and KAT are literally two of the elite offensive players in the league and they both struggled with it.

I wish Finch was a little more like Popovitch and a little less like Thibodeau. One guy has made his career adapting to the talent he has in any given year, the other has spent all of his trying to hammer square pegs into round holes.

I agree with you. One of the mistake so far is that only Mike is the only good Playmaker in this team. But he is 37 and he just can't do it more than 20-25 min, father age.... RD may be able to do it in 1 or 2 years. DDV is struggling but maybe put him as a starter will help him to get better?
NAW is not a playmaker, good defender, can shoot but he can't carry the team.

ANT got the talent to do it but after the Olympics games, he decide he is Steph2....

Overall we are probably a better offensive team than last year but defense is really bad right now.

This is the most surprising for me. KAT was improving a lot in this part of the game but i was expecting Randle will be decent. Another 1 month and if we are not improving, i hope Connely trade Randle for a good back up C and a decent PF.

[Guest84]

It took a long time for the team to gel after the Rudy trade. I would the same going forward for this team. You just hope it goes quicker than 2-3 seasons.

But finch, staff and the team seem to be slow learners. This is prob due to a lack of “exceptional” ball iq. The players are smarter than your average fan but among their peers…not so much.

[TimberKat]

I am wondering if we should have Randle coming off the bench. After all, we played fairly well when Towns was out and Naz start. Slowly work Randle in and he is also familiar with DDV.

[minimus]

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This make me believe that Kyle Anderson as high IQ veteran on the floor was huge part of last season success. Everybody is speaking about losing Towns size and defense, but Anderson was in many situations a floor general.

[minimus]

DDV is struggling because our offense lacks structure. And it is a big question for me whether in non Conley minutes MIN can play more structured basketball. Last season it was Anderson who often organised offense, but he was often a miscast when he tried to create offense by himself. This year our second unit plays completely different when multiple talented scorers such as Randle, Reid, Edwards are trying to beat first PoA (sometimes even second aka gap help and third aka rim protection, rotation) layer of offense and create kick out opportunities for others. On paper our second unit is more than ever designed for Finch's flow offense. But in reality they lack chemistry and experience to play that way. On paper Reid and DDV are two 6th man caliber candidates who should be two axes of bench unit, but they have not show any kind of chemistry, which was my biggest hope after trade. I thought Reid and DDV can run a highly efficient DHO game because both can shoot threes at high volume, both can slash. It has not happened yet. But potential is still there, talent is there, they still have a very young core of players.

[frankenwolf]

It took a long time for the team to gel after the Rudy trade. I would the same going forward for this team. You just hope it goes quicker than 2-3 seasons.

But finch, staff and the team seem to be slow learners. This is prob due to a lack of “exceptional” ball iq. The players are smarter than your average fan but among their peers…not so much.

I wouldn't compare the Gobert trade and the Randle trade in "time to get to know each other" because KAT was injured most of that season and Gobert wasn't himself at the start of the season. We also had D'lo, who apparently had no interest in learning how to pass to Gobert. Granted, this trade came pretty late in the pre-preseason, but there should be signs of acclimation by now, since nobody has been out for injuries for extended periods. They are definitely missing some chemistry, but I'm beginning to wonder if Randle is interested in being a team player.

[Guest84]

It took a long time for the team to gel after the Rudy trade. I would the same going forward for this team. You just hope it goes quicker than 2-3 seasons.

But finch, staff and the team seem to be slow learners. This is prob due to a lack of “exceptional” ball iq. The players are smarter than your average fan but among their peers…not so much.

I wouldn't compare the Gobert trade and the Randle trade in "time to get to know each other" because KAT was injured most of that season and Gobert wasn't himself at the start of the season. We also had D'lo, who apparently had no interest in learning how to pass to Gobert. Granted, this trade came pretty late in the pre-preseason, but there should be signs of acclimation by now, since nobody has been out for injuries for extended periods. They are definitely missing some chemistry, but I'm beginning to wonder if Randle is interested in being a team player.

While it's not the exact same scenario, the team was still trying to develop chemistry during that season. Towns didn't get injured until Nov 28 I believe and the team was 10-10 going into that game. 10-11 after. (https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2023_games.html)

Any time you move/bring in a major piece, there is an adjustment period. Granted Towns' injury made take longer than it might've initially. I think there's been some positives with the team this year but the defense has not been up to par. Even though I believe they were 8th in def rating going into the last game against Phx.

I think the success of last season has us fans hungry for more but because of the slow start, some of the ptsd of prior seasons may be kicking in, myself included. I'm trying to give them time to figure it out. Especially since a lot of other teams are up and down currently too.