Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition)

[KGdaBom]

For those expecting Philly to accept a bad deal for Simmons what good does that do us if the bad deal they accept is from another team. I would rather we give them a fair offer than have that happen.

[Dewey]

The saddest part to “me” is seeing Embiid and Rivers (team leaders) being arrogant enough to the point they’ve chosen not to own up to throwing Simmons under the bus. They and everyone else knows this was a bad bad public display, yet they dodge the issue and act as if they are calm and everyone needs to be reasonable. Yes, they all need to grow up - but you also have to own up.

Everyone says dumb things but not having the balls to come clean is pathetic. Embiid and Rivers have put themselves above the team and they are kidding themselves if the rest of the roster don’t see it.

[shrink]

The saddest part to “me” is seeing Embiid and Rivers (team leaders) being arrogant enough to the point they’ve chosen not to own up to throwing Simmons under the bus. They and everyone else knows this was a bad bad public display, yet they dodge the issue and act as if they are calm and everyone needs to be reasonable. Yes, they all need to grow up - but you also have to own up.

Everyone says dumb things but not having the balls to come clean is pathetic. Embiid and Rivers have put themselves above the team and they are kidding themselves if the rest of the roster don’t see it.

Totally agree, and everyone knows the situation, so it makes them look worse.

And the one person that hates them the most for it - Simmons. I felt like if they ever wanted Simmons to come back, they needed to accept some responsibility and make a public apology to Ben and Sixers fans.

[Calinks]

I still don't think any of this forces Morey to take bad deal. I still think he holds out until he can get a good packaged. Maybe not a kings ransom but he is going to get some good value before he trades Ben and I don't know if a team will step up with one soon.

The problem is teams are already offering good value and Philly prolonging the situation isn't helping. They are hoping to get more, when they are inviting his value to decrease. The are basically doing or have done the opposite of what they need to do to get the most from him.

We don''t know what teams are offering. I think if Morey sees a deal he thing will make his team better quickly he will take it.

[Domejandro]

Nothing has changed. Ben Simmons is not playing for Philadelphia, and Philadelphia is not accepting a subpar offer. I think this situation is a lot less exciting than people want it to be, if I am being honest. It’ll get resolved, but there is no countdown timer.

[winforlose]

Nothing has changed. Ben Simmons is not playing for Philadelphia, and Philadelphia is not accepting a subpar offer. I think this situation is a lot less exciting than people want it to be, if I am being honest. It’ll get resolved, but there is no countdown timer.

I cannot help but wonder if the NBA will get involved and make an example out of Simmons. This is the absolute worst possible scenario for the organization. A player refuses to honor their existing contract and is rewarded with a trade to their preferred destination. If every player of any value pulled this the entire contract scheme unravels. I could see the NBA suspending Simmons for the season and blocking any trade involving him.

[SO_MONEY]

Nothing has changed. Ben Simmons is not playing for Philadelphia, and Philadelphia is not accepting a subpar offer. I think this situation is a lot less exciting than people want it to be, if I am being honest. It’ll get resolved, but there is no countdown timer.

The point is they have already likely got best offers, Philly has nothing but stubbornness working for them and it doesn't help recover value. It hurts his value. So... what then is the plan? You are only getting "sub-par" offers now with no leverage, doesn't matter if it is now or in the future, offers are going to be low. Is the plan to just keep him, fine him indefinitely and destroy what is left of your reputation? That is what I am getting from you...

The situation is what it is, the way to trade him would have been early and quick, they messed everything up. There isn't a way out of it either. They are just prolonging the inevitable and by doing so making everything worse.

And sure this will resolve itself eventually, but only when Philly settles for a "sub-par" offer. Philly isn't in control anymore. There is blood in the water.

[shrink]

Nothing has changed. Ben Simmons is not playing for Philadelphia, and Philadelphia is not accepting a subpar offer. I think this situation is a lot less exciting than people want it to be, if I am being honest. It’ll get resolved, but there is no countdown timer.

I cannot help but wonder if the NBA will get involved and make an example out of Simmons. This is the absolute worst possible scenario for the organization. A player refuses to honor their existing contract and is rewarded with a trade to their preferred destination. If every player of any value pulled this the entire contract scheme unravels. I could see the NBA suspending Simmons for the season and blocking any trade involving him.

I think you’re right, that players refusing to honor their contract could become a serious issue. After a CBA a rule change, we just had the most extensions in NBA history, with one team allegedly saying, “take the money, and if you want put in 1-2 years, we’ll trade you wherever you want to go.” Harden laid the groundwork, but it’s a big deal when a player with four years on his deal refuses to honor his contract.

However, under Silver, the NBA right now has a pretty good relationship with the Players Association, and one of their biggest issues is player mobility. I think Silver will try to keep this as PHI’s problem, but if others follow Simmons lead, he will be forced to step in. My best guess is that if he can wait until after the 2023 season, the owners will opt out of the current CBA and it will become a hotly contested issue in the next CBA.

You’re 100% right though - a big name player refusing to honor his contract is a huge deal for the NBA, and an even bigger deal for teams in less desirable situations like Minnesota.

[flyindutchman]

Nothing has changed. Ben Simmons is not playing for Philadelphia, and Philadelphia is not accepting a subpar offer. I think this situation is a lot less exciting than people want it to be, if I am being honest. It’ll get resolved, but there is no countdown timer.

I cannot help but wonder if the NBA will get involved and make an example out of Simmons. This is the absolute worst possible scenario for the organization. A player refuses to honor their existing contract and is rewarded with a trade to their preferred destination. If every player of any value pulled this the entire contract scheme unravels. I could see the NBA suspending Simmons for the season and blocking any trade involving him.

What am I missing here? Is Ben the first player to demand a trade and say he won't report? If not, what has the NBA done to other players?

Earl Monroe demanded a trade out of Baltimore in the early 70's. Not only did he stay home (possibly by the team's request), but he went to the rival ABA to discuss switching leagues if Baltimore wouldn't trade him.

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

It’s bull what Simmons is doing. Or any star. Anthony Davis? Jimmy? Now Zion? Fine these entitled idiots big time if they ever so speak about wanting to be traded.

It was so refreshing to the bucks, basically a team built through the draft or key free agent signing or legit trades get a championship. Hell I’d have been fine with Phoenix winning too because they rebuilt with smart drafts, trades and FA signings. The Lakers winning with brow and lebron is about as tainted as they come

[Note30]

Anyone think that Indiana would partner on a trade without getting Simmons back?

Could see a 4 teamer with Detroit and Indiana

[wolves_89]

Are phrases like "bad deal" and "subpar offer" really accurate? Simmons has been on the market for months and in terms of rumored deals all the offers have been somewhat similar in value, so are they really bad offers or is the expectation unrealistic? I think Morey has done a great job of framing the debate in that he has shaped things to where people accept that Simmons will return a huge package when in truth the offers to date represent the real value.

[Tjstangeland]

I think every situation is different and in this situation I blame the Philly Organization for how they have treated Simmons. They should've told him this behind closed doors, not use the media to do it. They literally opened the door for Simmons to do exactly what he is doing now. Players get enough critism from the media and fan base. If the Organization don't have your back then why would you want to play for them.

[SO_MONEY]

Are phrases like "bad deal" and "subpar offer" really accurate? Simmons has been on the market for months and in terms of rumored deals all the offers have been somewhat similar in value, so are they really bad offers or is the expectation unrealistic? I think Morey has done a great job of framing the debate in that he has shaped things to where people accept that Simmons will return a huge package when in truth the offers to date represent the real value.

That is why I used quotes for "sub-par", I think that is not really the case. I think he is getting market value, but that value is low, relatively speaking. Hard to justify it to the fan base, hard to ever get more than you can get now. They are stuck in a no-win situation, I think that is part of why they have held him thus far. I also think Morey knows he will get fired if things don't change, so he doesn't have any incentive to trade him. This ends when ownership has enough and makes a deal, probably firing Morey in the end as a scapegoat.

[Slim Tubby]

I still don't think any of this forces Morey to take bad deal. I still think he holds out until he can get a good packaged. Maybe not a kings ransom but he is going to get some good value before he trades Ben and I don't know if a team will step up with one soon.

The problem is teams are already offering good value and Philly prolonging the situation isn't helping. They are hoping to get more, when they are inviting his value to decrease. The are basically doing or have done the opposite of what they need to do to get the most from him.

We don''t know what teams are offering. I think if Morey sees a deal he thing will make his team better quickly he will take it.

At this point of the drama, is it even possible for Philly to get a return that makes them better than they are with Simmons? Of all the rumored deals, McCollum and RoCo would seem like the closest to that result but we really don't know for sure if that is even being offered by POR.

[shrink]

The problem is teams are already offering good value and Philly prolonging the situation isn't helping. They are hoping to get more, when they are inviting his value to decrease. The are basically doing or have done the opposite of what they need to do to get the most from him.

We don''t know what teams are offering. I think if Morey sees a deal he thing will make his team better quickly he will take it.

At this point of the drama, is it even possible for Philly to get a return that makes them better than they are with Simmons? Of all the rumored deals, McCollum and RoCo would seem like the closest to that result but we really don't know for sure if that is even being offered by POR.

Most of the time, teams don’t get full value when dealing a star. This is especially true when a star demands a trade, and Simmons action is the most extreme trade demand ever.

I would also point put Brian Windhorst doesn’t believe POR would trade McCollum for Simmons because Simmons is so hard to fit a team next to. This “McCollum + Covington” isn’t a rumor - it’s PHI fans wishful thinking.

[Klomp]

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[Krapinsky]

We don''t know what teams are offering. I think if Morey sees a deal he thing will make his team better quickly he will take it.

At this point of the drama, is it even possible for Philly to get a return that makes them better than they are with Simmons? Of all the rumored deals, McCollum and RoCo would seem like the closest to that result but we really don't know for sure if that is even being offered by POR.

Most of the time, teams don’t get full value when dealing a star. This is especially true when a star demands a trade, and Simmons action is the most extreme trade demand ever.

I would also point put Brian Windhorst doesn’t believe POR would trade McCollum for Simmons because Simmons is so hard to fit a team next to. This “McCollum + Covington” isn’t a rumor - it’s PHI fans wishful thinking.

I get this logic but I also don’t get what Portland is doing. How many times are they going to run back the same core / roster construction and expect a different result?

[Slim Tubby]

I'll take a swing at a Simmons deal using the premise that a 3rd team with a "win now" player needs to be part of any trade:

MIN in: Simmons ($33M)
MIN out: Prince ($13M), Beverly ($13M), McDaniels ($2M), 2022 FRP (Top 8) & 2024 FRP (Top 8)

PHI in: Grant ($20M), Beverly ($13M) and 2024 FRP (MIN)
PHI out: Simmons ($33M)

DET in: McDaniels ($2M), Prince ($13M), Bolmaro ($2M) & 2022 FRP (MIN)
DET out: Grant ($20M)

*** MIN gets Simmons while hanging on to KAT, Ant & Russell but at the cost of McDaniels and Two (2) FRP's

*** PHI gets a very nice "win now" piece in Grant along with PG help (Beverly) & future FRP

*** DET - The rebuild gets a huge boost with McDaniels, Bolmaro & 2022 FRP to add to what appears very good young nucleus in Cunningham, Bey, Stewart & Hayes

[Ballerhogger]

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that's a scary thought if they will think about giving up Ant-man....