**The Official Karl-Anthony Towns Thread: Part Two**

[DusterBuster]

Not here for discussions, but I’m one of the few Blazer fans on board with KAT if the Wolves were willing to move him for Scoot. Those comments of changing the game were hilarious tho. Dude is corny, but I think a unique talent regardless!

[theGreatRC]

Not here for discussions, but I’m one of the few Blazer fans on board with KAT if the Wolves were willing to move him for Scoot. Those comments of changing the game were hilarious tho. Dude is corny, but I think a unique talent regardless!

KAT for Scoot is the only KAT trade that I like and you were the post i first saw it from...did these media outlets get it from reading the idea from you or did you see it somewhere?

[DusterBuster]

Not here for discussions, but I’m one of the few Blazer fans on board with KAT if the Wolves were willing to move him for Scoot. Those comments of changing the game were hilarious tho. Dude is corny, but I think a unique talent regardless!

KAT for Scoot is the only KAT trade that I like and you were the post i first saw it from...did these media outlets get it from reading the idea from you or did you see it somewhere?

I still stand by that trade as being a good deal for both sides! Scoot and Ant would be legit amazing together. Some Blazer fans listed that as their main reason why the Blazers shouldn’t do it, which makes me think it’s probably fair for both sides.

[Battletrigger]

Watch on YouTube

"My man when it comes to like offensively gifted players, I say, man ... it's two people, bro. It's K.A.T. and it's James Harden, and I think I got K.A.T. [No. 1]," Beverley said.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10079285-patrick-beverley-says-karl-anthony-towns-is-nbas-best-center-over-jokic-embiid

Anybody dares to disagree?

Seems Green does, since he is mocking him again

[Klomp]

Kyle Theige with a good point on Flagrant Howls.

We're only like a month removed from Tim Connelly saying that Anthony Edwards is the central focus of the franchise's decisions moving forward. A month later, is hearing Towns say "I changed the game" actually sealing the decision to trade KAT sooner rather than later? Forget about the on-court fit, but the comments from fantasyland can't be helping Towns' case to stay.

[shrink]

Towns would be far wiser to just stay off podcasts until his team wins something, because all of us “never played a minute in the NBA” critics are going to go after him whenever he says grandiose positive about himself. But does he have a case?

I don’t think he “changed the game,” but after Dirk, all the young big men coming up for the next 15 years until KAT wanted to stay under the hoop, push people around and dunk. These kids (and their coaches) didn’t want them emulating Dirk - they wanted to be Duncan, Shaq, etc. Towns was the first big man we saw that had all the moves underneath, and was taking, and making lots of three pointers. Before him, no young big man aspired to win an All Star game three point contest. And certainly no big man aspired to win an All Star game skills competition!

Did Towns “change the game?” I wouldn’t go that far. I think the game might have been destined to change without him, because of the rise of analytics and the realization of the value of the three point shot. But I do think he changed how teenage big man prospects chose to develop their game. There was never any reason bigs couldn’t shoot three’s other than teams wanted them under the basket to rebound. Old guys like Charles Barkley still say that, despite most current star bigs now wanting the three point shot in their arsenal. Even Wemby is coming in with a three point shot now, and he’s the guy that needs it least in the NBA!

I would also note that Towns said, “long after he retired,” people would say he changed the game. Maybe he sees himself with a few rings before he retires. I can imagine an NBA 20 years from now, where nearly every player is tall and has all the skills. Looking back, NBA historians will look for what changed, and some may point at Towns. Still makes him totally tone-deaf to say it in 2023, when he’s done nothing in the playoffs, but the league now has many players we only recently called “unicorns.” Maybe in 20 years, we will be calling them “copy-KATs”.

[Ambrose]

When it comes to talking about Jokic, Embiid, and KAT people always point to how Jokic and Embiid have continued to develop throughout the years, now being at MVP level. They've used this argument to diminish KAT as if they are all occurring in a vacuum with the same variables at play (outside of Jokic, Embiid, KAT).

Now, I am not saying that KAT is currently on their level, but the main thing those two have had the benefit of that KAT has never had is consistency and continuity within the organization. In addition to that consistency, Jokic and Embiid haven't really been asked to change their games for the benefit of the team. KAT has not only had inconsistency in every aspect of the organization, coaches, players, but he's also been asked to be a different player in many of these different situations. All things considered, he's done a pretty good job, but in order to be an MVP, I believe that you need consistency AND years of being able to craft your game down to the tiny nuanced details.

When you are asked to play a game you aren't used to it's difficult to carve out "your game" because you're busy playing with the team's current variable in mind, not necessarily how to best maximize your personal skillset.

Obviously it can't be guaranteed, but I think a lot of the criticisms of KAT wouldn't hold up if he'd been in Denver or Philadelphia all these years. He'd have had more winning pieces around him, consistent coaching, and a franchise willing to build around him (rather than trying to accumulate talent and throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks each year). The adaptability of KAT is impressive, but it spreads him too thin IMO. The KAT that everyone has hoping he could be can only exist with consistency of the franchise, team, and his role.

I think you're looking at this the entirely wrong way. If Towns was that guy, the team would adapt to him, not the other way around. There is a lack of consistency and continuity in part because he isn't good enough. Philly was a dumpster fire before Embiid showed up. Denver was nothing. Those organizations were able to 'build up' because Embiid/Jokic proved they were worth building around. KAT has certainly had some bad luck but so have Embiid and Jokic. We know he and Butler didn't mesh for obvious reasons, yet Butler and Embiid are close. Obviously the Wolves typically are a terribly run organization, wouldn't dare deny that, and that certainly plays a role but it's hard to look at this as anything other than making excuses for a guy who hasn't progressed the way he should have. The way he talks about changing the game and comparing a bubble run to Denver's title shows he has zero self-awareness.

[shrink]

I can imagine this conversation in 2050.

“Grandpa Shrinkie, is it true that the NBA used to have players that were 6-2 on the court? How did they defend 6-9 players?”

“Lil Kev, let me tell you the story of a guy named A.I.”

[shrink]

When it comes to talking about Jokic, Embiid, and KAT people always point to how Jokic and Embiid have continued to develop throughout the years, now being at MVP level. They've used this argument to diminish KAT as if they are all occurring in a vacuum with the same variables at play (outside of Jokic, Embiid, KAT).

Now, I am not saying that KAT is currently on their level, but the main thing those two have had the benefit of that KAT has never had is consistency and continuity within the organization. In addition to that consistency, Jokic and Embiid haven't really been asked to change their games for the benefit of the team. KAT has not only had inconsistency in every aspect of the organization, coaches, players, but he's also been asked to be a different player in many of these different situations. All things considered, he's done a pretty good job, but in order to be an MVP, I believe that you need consistency AND years of being able to craft your game down to the tiny nuanced details.

When you are asked to play a game you aren't used to it's difficult to carve out "your game" because you're busy playing with the team's current variable in mind, not necessarily how to best maximize your personal skillset.

Obviously it can't be guaranteed, but I think a lot of the criticisms of KAT wouldn't hold up if he'd been in Denver or Philadelphia all these years. He'd have had more winning pieces around him, consistent coaching, and a franchise willing to build around him (rather than trying to accumulate talent and throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks each year). The adaptability of KAT is impressive, but it spreads him too thin IMO. The KAT that everyone has hoping he could be can only exist with consistency of the franchise, team, and his role.

I think you're looking at this the entirely wrong way. If Towns was that guy, the team would adapt to him, not the other way around. There is a lack of consistency and continuity in part because he isn't good enough. Philly was a dumpster fire before Embiid showed up. Denver was nothing. Those organizations were able to 'build up' because Embiid/Jokic proved they were worth building around. KAT has certainly had some bad luck but so have Embiid and Jokic. We know he and Butler didn't mesh for obvious reasons, yet Butler and Embiid are close. Obviously the Wolves typically are a terribly run organization, wouldn't dare deny that, and that certainly plays a role but it's hard to look at this as anything other than making excuses for a guy who hasn't progressed the way he should have.

First, Towns has progressed. His defense, while still only “OK,” is significantly better than when he started. And he came in as a rookie with an elite offensive game. He hasn’t progressed like Jokic or Embiid, but it seems unfair to use them as a standard.

Yet the general public does. Towns has never had consistent team direction, front office, coaching or surrounding players, so urinesane is correct that he is constantly needing to adjust. When the TEAM regularly loses, the public blames Towns specifically for the team loss. Yes, he’s not a superstar that alone can drag a team to the playoffs, regardless of his team. Guys like LeBron and KG are truly elite. But put any talent on the team around him at all, (and MIN has done this 3 of 8 years), and Towns helps get the team into the playoffs. I expect the team has sufficient talent to make the playoffs next year .. but I doubt 3 years in a row in the playoffs in his prime will change the narrative of Towns, if they get knocked out on the first round again.

He’s not good enough to do it alone. But he clearly helps make it happen.

[Klomp]

Towns would be far wiser to just stay off podcasts until his team wins something, because all of us “never played a minute in the NBA” critics are going to go after him whenever he says grandiose positive about himself. But does he have a case?

I don’t think he “changed the game,” but after Dirk, all the young big men coming up for the next 15 years until KAT wanted to stay under the hoop, push people around and dunk. These kids (and their coaches) didn’t want them emulating Dirk - they wanted to be Duncan, Shaq, etc. Towns was the first big man we saw that had all the moves underneath, and was taking, and making lots of three pointers. Before him, no young big man aspired to win an All Star game three point contest. And certainly no big man aspired to win an All Star game skills competition!

Did Towns “change the game?” I wouldn’t go that far. I think the game might have been destined to change without him, because of the rise of analytics and the realization of the value of the three point shot. But I do think he changed how teenage big man prospects chose to develop their game. There was never any reason bigs couldn’t shoot three’s other than teams wanted them under the basket to rebound. Old guys like Charles Barkley still say that, despite most current star bigs now wanting the three point shot in their arsenal. Even Wemby is coming in with a three point shot now, and he’s the guy that needs it least in the NBA!

I would also note that Towns said, “long after he retired,” people would say he changed the game. Maybe he sees himself with a few rings before he retires. I can imagine an NBA 20 years from now, where nearly every player is tall and has all the skills. Looking back, NBA historians will look for what changed, and some may point at Towns. Still makes him totally tone-deaf to say it in 2023, when he’s done nothing in the playoffs, but the league now has many players we only recently called “unicorns.” Maybe in 20 years, we will be calling them “copy-KATs”.

I think the game changed and he was in the right place at the right time, but he’s getting far too much hate for this comment!

I think it will be interesting though 20 years from now, I bet most people will start crediting Victor for changing the game when he won't be the first.

But then again.....didn't Harden and Houston "change the game" more than Curry and Golden State in terms of analytics and volume 3-point shooting?! Everyone credits the Warriors though...

[Battletrigger]

Watch on YouTube

"My man when it comes to like offensively gifted players, I say, man ... it's two people, bro. It's K.A.T. and it's James Harden, and I think I got K.A.T. [No. 1]," Beverley said.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10079285-patrick-beverley-says-karl-anthony-towns-is-nbas-best-center-over-jokic-embiid

Anybody dares to disagree?

Seems Green does, since he is mocking him again

Watch on YouTube

You get what you are looking for.

[Klomp]

Watch on YouTube

You get what you are looking for.

That literally was not what Towns was saying.

[Calinks]

Towns does this all the time. It's part of what makes him frustrating. Guy says some wild/delusional stuff. Nothing bad or insensitive, just stuff that is goofy and makes people want to hate him more. I just shrug it off cause that's who he is. The thing that really bothers me is how he handles the refs or gets flustered in games. I wish he as half as emotional on the court.

[thinktank]

"My man when it comes to like offensively gifted players, I say, man ... it's two people, bro. It's K.A.T. and it's James Harden, and I think I got K.A.T. [No. 1]," Beverley said.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10079285-patrick-beverley-says-karl-anthony-towns-is-nbas-best-center-over-jokic-embiid

Anybody dares to disagree?

Seems Green does, since he is mocking him again

Watch on YouTube

You get what you are looking for.

How hard is it to shut up and play? Jesus tap dancing Christ. These guys nailed it.

[shrink]

I was watching “Full Swing” on Netflix, and a commentator had a quote about Tony Finau that I think rings true to me for Towns.

People, when they talk about Tony, they say, “Yeah man, Tony’s a great golfer, but ..”. Right?

The great thing about a career is .. a career is a long time. It’s a long time. He’s just getting started. He really is

For me, I would say, “Yeah man, KAT a great basketball player, but … he has always been miscast as the #1. His mentality is to pass, and to be liked, and he doesn’t deal with it well when he isn’t treated like stars in the league, by the refs, his peers, or the media. He gets scapegoated for the Timberwolves lack of success, when the organization hasn’t surrounded him with winning players.

But a career is a long time. Towns is still just 27, just beginning his prime. The team has more talent than it’s had in 20 years. And if Ant can become the superstar we hope and this becomes Ant’s team, KAT can slide into being one of the best #2’s in the entire NBA. The only other time he got that chance, in 2017-18, he had his best season ever, and was #2 in the NBA in Win Shares.

I don’t want to see KAT traded. I think if he goes to another team to be their #2, he’ll be fantastic. I think as the focus drifts towards Ant, Towns won’t have to deal with the media after every game, and he, the team and the fans will all be better off.

[Klomp]

For me, I would say, “Yeah man, KAT a great basketball player, but … he has always been miscast as the #1. His mentality is to pass, and to be liked, and he doesn’t deal with it well when he isn’t treated like stars in the league, by the refs, his peers, or the media. He gets scapegoated for the Timberwolves lack of success, when the organization hasn’t surrounded him with winning players.

But a career is a long time. Towns is still just 27, just beginning his prime. The team has more talent than it’s had in 20 years. And if Ant can become the superstar we hope and this becomes Ant’s team, KAT can slide into being one of the best #2’s in the entire NBA. The only other time he got that chance, in 2017-18, he had his best season ever, and was #2 in the NBA in Win Shares.

I don’t want to see KAT traded. I think if he goes to another team to be their #2, he’ll be fantastic. I think as the focus drifts towards Ant, Towns won’t have to deal with the media after every game, and he, the team and the fans will all be better off.

I've been trying hard to figure out a comparison for him. It doesn't fit within the parameters you outlined, but the one I always come back to is Patrick Ewing. He had a great career, but is never talked about in the same light as his peers such as Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson.

[Calinks]

Winning changes everything. Silly comp but in my NBA 2K I traded KAT to Portland and they went on to win a title and he got finals MVP. Just imagine if something like that happened to him, the story about him would absolutely flip on a dime. He still have plenty of chances to win on a bigger stage. I don't know if it will be with us but his rep will go way up if it does happen. I don't worry about it. Look at Wiggins, everyone thought he was garbage, suddenly he finds a role in GS and now he is a revered player who gets talked of very highly. It's so funny how a different situation can absolutely change your narrative. It's also kind of happened to Gobert. Look at how he was viewed 3 years ago and look at how he is viewed today.

[KJauger]

For me, I would say, “Yeah man, KAT a great basketball player, but … he has always been miscast as the #1. His mentality is to pass, and to be liked, and he doesn’t deal with it well when he isn’t treated like stars in the league, by the refs, his peers, or the media. He gets scapegoated for the Timberwolves lack of success, when the organization hasn’t surrounded him with winning players.

But a career is a long time. Towns is still just 27, just beginning his prime. The team has more talent than it’s had in 20 years. And if Ant can become the superstar we hope and this becomes Ant’s team, KAT can slide into being one of the best #2’s in the entire NBA. The only other time he got that chance, in 2017-18, he had his best season ever, and was #2 in the NBA in Win Shares.

I don’t want to see KAT traded. I think if he goes to another team to be their #2, he’ll be fantastic. I think as the focus drifts towards Ant, Towns won’t have to deal with the media after every game, and he, the team and the fans will all be better off.

I've been trying hard to figure out a comparison for him. It doesn't fit within the parameters you outlined, but the one I always come back to is Patrick Ewing. He had a great career, but is never talked about in the same light as his peers such as Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson.

He's more Demarcus Cousins than Ewing. His lack of awareness and introspection is astounding, and has been since day 1. For Anthony Edwards sake, i wish we could trade Kat so we can have a real leader instead of someone who acts like he likes the idea of being one without displaying any of the attributes.

[TimberKat]

For me, I would say, “Yeah man, KAT a great basketball player, but … he has always been miscast as the #1. His mentality is to pass, and to be liked, and he doesn’t deal with it well when he isn’t treated like stars in the league, by the refs, his peers, or the media. He gets scapegoated for the Timberwolves lack of success, when the organization hasn’t surrounded him with winning players.

But a career is a long time. Towns is still just 27, just beginning his prime. The team has more talent than it’s had in 20 years. And if Ant can become the superstar we hope and this becomes Ant’s team, KAT can slide into being one of the best #2’s in the entire NBA. The only other time he got that chance, in 2017-18, he had his best season ever, and was #2 in the NBA in Win Shares.

I don’t want to see KAT traded. I think if he goes to another team to be their #2, he’ll be fantastic. I think as the focus drifts towards Ant, Towns won’t have to deal with the media after every game, and he, the team and the fans will all be better off.

I've been trying hard to figure out a comparison for him. It doesn't fit within the parameters you outlined, but the one I always come back to is Patrick Ewing. He had a great career, but is never talked about in the same light as his peers such as Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson.

He's more Demarcus Cousins than Ewing. His lack of awareness and introspection is astounding, and has been since day 1. For Anthony Edwards sake, i wish we could trade Kat so we can have a real leader instead of someone who acts like he likes the idea of being one without displaying any of the attributes.

In Robinson's case, is he a bad leader? He didn't win a championship until Duncan join the team. So is the 1999 team Duncan's team or Robinson's team? Who's the leader if you trade away Towns? I think they just need to learn to play together. Kobe played with Shaq. The only time that 2 star's game doesn't fit is LBJ and Westbrook. All other 2 or 3 superstar teams all seemed to work on the court. It's the ego and off court stuff that is the problem. I don't see KAT and Ant had off court issues. They are two different kind of animal anyway. Kat is at least as good as Brad Daugherty and way above Cousins.

[shrink]

I mentioned elsewhere that KAT isn’t an alpha guy, but most years he had to be team leader because there weren’t other choices (Can you imagine Wiggins as team leader?!?). The media praises him because he has always gone and done full press sessions after so many losses, even though he clearly has put his foot in his mouth many times, and gotten roasted nationally for it.

But he seems to do so much better when someone else steps up to be the focus of the team, whether that was the year with Jimmy (even though Jimmy gets the credit, Towns played far far better), or last year’s fun team. The media focused on Ant, and PatBev loves to talk, but KAT was the best player last year as well.

The good news for us is that Ant looks like he can be the alpha on the court, and the media loves him. KAT could be one of the best #2’s in the whole NBA, and I think that role suits him better as well.