TheZachAttack wrote:Sealab2024 wrote:TheZachAttack wrote:Listening to Dane & Britt on summer league and I think they have things backwards with RD. I think you have this backwards because you want RD to be an instant offense scorer who can create rim pressure, drive and kick, and create perimeter jump shots at a solid rate at will.
You want to add this skillset to the Wolves offense because the Wolves needed this last year behind Ant. And the idea is that the perimeter shotmaking also complements off Ant off ball as a secondary skill.
RD’s scouting report has suggests his potential as that 3 level scorer. Being honest, if you can do all of those things well… and do so with self creation you are talking about an elite scorer. That sounds a like Ant. In addition, the conversation was that if the Wolves don’t have this they will take a step back.
I do think this is a skillset the Wolves need. I also think without it we can ask questions about the teams ability to get over the hump. I think this framing, frames the conversation wrong in a few ways.
First, I do think that skill set would help the Wolves. But, what the Wolves really need is a player that can help their offense create more consistent advantages and more easily force defenses to get into rotation. There are different ways to get teams in rotation. And we may have preferences of the types of styles of play that are most consistent for creating advantages and getting defenses into rotation. But ultimately, the Wolves with and without Ant on the floor need to more consistently and easily create advantages from more places. I think we both could agree that if the Wolves were doing that we think their offense could take a step and it could mean they perform better where they couldn’t last year.
Second, in the Dillingham role the Wolves do not need that player to be a good 1:1 shot creator or downhill and get to the basket. The Wolves need a player behind Conley that can initiate and manage offense. Other than an aging Conley, the Wolves don’t have a player who can manage the game, manage pace, manage touches, and take perimeter shots that the defense gives on ball screens and play off of the primary action as a floor spacer.
If he did this all really well, he would be Mike Conley. If he does this and doesn’t shoot consistently as a spacer or take shots off ball screens then he’s Jmac. If he can play faster, get the team in transition, and space the floor on and off the ball more like Conley he’s a plus offensive player and allows actually even more Conley load management.
RD showed that he’s way ahead of schedule for a 19 year old at his feel, willingness, and IQ for managing pace, getting the offense into action, and spacing off of the primary action. He also clearly commands a ton more gravity than Jmac on the perimeter and commands attention like he’s a good/elite shooter.
The ability to do the simple things that good point guards do that don’t show up in the stat sheet, play in transition more, and pull defenders to him on the perimeter will lead to high quality offense and advantage creation. And he did show the ability to process the defensive action during a ball screen and understand what the right decision is to create the right shot for the offense. There was a stretch he made 3 different decisions within a few minute time frame on the fly based off of how the defense rotated and where the advantage was.
And if you tell me that in the NBA they won’t show him the same respect as a shooter… well that makes me more confident. Part of the physicality that he was dealing with was defenses showing a big on the ball screen and going over the screen behind him. He didn’t force shots in these cases he made the right decisions generally.
If teams don’t respect him he won’t have to deal with that physicality and he will have more time and space to step into jump shots. Maybe he can’t finish at the rim consistently or even get there, but I don’t think we saw a player that will be unable to hit open perimeter shots.
This means that the Wolves backup PG position is already much more offensively capable than last year. And this is both in the scoring that RD creates for himself but in the way he forces a defense to guard him in a way that creates more space than Jmac, Morris, and probably even Conley.
This advantage creation is important. It’s why even when Ant isn’t scoring well he’s still impacting a game at a high level and maybe more so than guys who teams are fine letting score 1:1 and not giving up advantages elsewhere.
So to me the conversation being had is really wrong. And if you didn’t see the same initiation and game management skills I encourage you to go watch the games and not the stats or whether shots went in or not.
In the last game in summer league, the Rockets didn’t give him as much attention/physicality above the 3 point line and he got into technically 8 3’s and he made 3 with one being a jump shot with his toe on the line. This is to say that he can’t create his own jump shot. But, I think that’s wrong. He can’t create his own jump shot when defenses are playing screens aggressively, but he does read that well and is willing to move the ball to the advantage which gets the defense in rotation. So he’s quiet as a shotmaker but the offense is getting the defense in rotation and generating good looks. And then once again if the defense isn’t working really hard to take his space away for a clean perimeter look, he will get into volume 3 point shooting,
This dynamic alone, take away stats, is a major upgrade to the Wolves ball handling situation behind Ant in the half court. This doesn’t require Dillimgham to be able to consistently get to the rim or finish at the rim.
In addition to this ability to manipulate and create advantages off of ball screens… I think we all think that Dillimgham as an off ball player and running around a big with the ball on the elbow for hand offs and short relocation passes is another area where Rob can add a dynamic to the Wolves offense that they have had. RD’s shooting gravity and his shiftiness and shotmaking will force defenses to make decisions of trying to chase him through traffic or start switching and create rotations that the Wolves can attack.
This assumes average to above average perimeter shot making, but I think the wrong conclusion from summer league is that Dillimgham can’t make open and in rhythm perimeter jump shots.
If you just talk through what you’re seeing on the floor like I am , I think it’s not seeing the forest for the trees in the framing of Dillingham. At the very least, I think it’s talking through the lens of the role we want Dillimgham to have based on where we fell short last season. I don’t think it’s talking through what the Wolves got from the 15-20 backup PG minutes last year, the different ways those minutes could be productive this year, the “true” reason why we want another ball handler who can provide rim pressure, and talking about what Dillimgham was doing versus what he wasn’t doing.
Even the comment about the physicality on the ball screens is from the standpoint of him not turning the corner and/or being able to create space to pull up as a shooter. It doesn’t acknowledge the difference in defenses reacting to Rob’s gravity by thinking they have to be physical, go over screens, and hedge the 3 point line and what space that opens up in offense.
Because shots didn’t go in, especially perimeter jump shots, and because you think that RD’s role is a Jaylen Nowell/Shake Milton role (but hopefully better) instead of you understanding the way his gravity and decision making as a ball handler stretches defenses out and because he has an elite handle where he can pull the defender into him and then find the advantage without losing the ball and because he’s much more willing to continue to take what the defense gives him as a point guard than expected.
From a scoring lens, the take is he can’t consistently create his own shot against physicality. The point guard take is his shooting gravity forces defenses to stretch their defense so that he can’t have space of the screen and RD’s handle allows him to process the defense, press the defense and get them to commit to him, keep his dribble live, and move the ball to the weak spot on the defense.
In the summer league, these plays didn’t show up on the stat sheet many times because of missing shots or being the pass that led to the pass, but you have to watch the process. As Britt said, he basically didn’t make a bad decision all of summer league. Even his turnovers were mostly weird OB or offensive foul off arm stuff.
To me, the Wolves will 100% want him on ball quite a bit with the 2nd unit. He’s the Wolves second best guard on the roster at running offense and best at pushing the team to play in transition. In fact, if he wasn’t as capable at this I would say that it’s likely the Wolves would have needed to add another veteran PG who would end up taking some of those 15-20 minutes especially against good teams.
Further, his willingness to get off ball actually makes it more likely that he is more mature than most 19 year olds and a better fit to play early. This is important for Wolves guards playing off of Ant and KAT and managing the initiation of the offense and bring the ball up the court so Ant doesn’t get tired.
The take that RD isn’t ready to play because he is not strong enough to finish at the rim and shot make is backwards. Most immature non-winning guards are shoot-first guards who are talented at creating their own offense but struggle to manage the game like a true PG, initiate offense, move and get off ball, move without the ball, etc.
The process of RD’s game was revealed to be more NBA ready not less. Based on what we saw in summer league he is a day 1 point guard upgrade by a decent margin from last year.
He likely wont be able to create advantages through rim pressure but his shotmaking gravity on and off ball and his willingness to make the right decision that the defense gives him and ability to process what’s happening along with his handle does mean that he adds new ways for the wolves to create offense behind Ant, more ways to create advantages more consistently, and more ways to get defenses in rotation.
The last thing I will say is we need to finish the frame conversation. His lack of size causes him to not be able to do what? And then what? I think fans are going to have to get use to Rob’s playing style which will be unorthodox because he’s used to playing at that size.
The physicality makes it hard for Rob to turn the corner on ball screens and get to the rim efficiently. Rob’s shot gravity forces defenders to play aggressive, he’s used to keeping his dribble alive against bigger defenders who think they can overpower him, and he’s shift enough to get the defender to commit to him string him out and even get him to press up while then finding the rolling man who slipped towards the rim once the big overcommitted to Rob.
The physicality means that without some ball screens he can struggle to create clean looks. Well, Rob is really great off ball running around a big as a passer, relocating, and finding space to get shots off.
Rewrite this and use half the words
Nah, you don't have to read it or care for it.
I do appreciate your enthusiasm, but you are writing novels. I seldom take the time to read things half as long as this. I tried, but gave up half way through. You do you, but shorter may be sweeter and you won't get all the TLDRs on your posts.
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