Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition

[BlacJacMac]

Kessler is on Utah.
Like I said, they would have to want to get rid of Grant.

Yes, I'm aware of where Kessler is. But look at your trade. Grant is the main value going to Utah. Obviously the deal falls apart there. There's no chance that they would move Hendricks, Kessler and a pick for Grant. If they would, like I said, it's a slam dunk for Portland. But after the Portland-Utah portion is done, you'd have Portland turning around and moving Kessler, Camara and Avdija for Randle, basically. And that's an easy no.

You beat me to my edit:

I kind of broke it down like this:
Grant to Utah for Clarkson, Hendricks, and some kind of Utah pick.
Randle and TSJ (and you could add a pick here as well if you'd like) for Avdija and Camara.
Kessler and Mills for Garza and Minott (Mills for salary purposes).

Utah is giving up two young players with upside, a single cheap year (14M) of Clarkson, Mills 3M and draft capital to pay Grant 102M over the next 3 years? I feel like Minott and (especially) Garza are little more than throw-ins at this point.

[cmoss84]

I'm sorry for making terrible trade scenarios! Please don't hit me!

[cmoss84]

Maybe you guys will like this a little better? I'm basically trying to get this as a return from the KAT trade:
-extend NAZ and NAW
-DD @ 3/35
-Avdija @ 4/55
-Kessler @ 2/8

Portland in: Randle, Clarkson, Hendricks, TSJ, Juzang
OUT: Grant, Avdija, Camara

Utah in: Grant, Camara, Garza, '25 SRP (Utah)
OUT: Clarkson, Hendricks, Juzang

MN in: Avdija and Kessler
OUT: Randle, TSJ, '25 SRP
1st apron
Mike-ANT-Avdija-Jaden-Rudy
RD-DD-NAW-NAZ-Kessler

[cucad8]

Maybe you guys will like this a little better? I'm basically trying to get this as a return from the KAT trade:
-extend NAZ and NAW
-DD @ 3/35
-Avdija @ 4/55
-Kessler @ 2/8

Portland in: Randle, Clarkson, Hendricks, TSJ, Juzang
OUT: Grant, Avdija, Camara

Utah in: Grant, Camara, Garza, '25 SRP (Utah)
OUT: Clarkson, Hendricks, Juzang

MN in: Avdija and Kessler
OUT: Randle, TSJ, '25 SRP
1st apron
Mike-ANT-Avdija-Jaden-Rudy
RD-DD-NAW-NAZ-Kessler

Portland is trying to rebuild. Camara and Avdija are both 24 years old and look to be a big part of that. They're not looking to move them just to get off of Grant. Any Randle interest from portland would be a 1-1 swap for Grant just to shorten the contract. But zero interest in moving Camara and Avdija without a crazy high return.

[winforlose]

Maybe you guys will like this a little better? I'm basically trying to get this as a return from the KAT trade:
-extend NAZ and NAW
-DD @ 3/35
-Avdija @ 4/55
-Kessler @ 2/8

Portland in: Randle, Clarkson, Hendricks, TSJ, Juzang
OUT: Grant, Avdija, Camara

Utah in: Grant, Camara, Garza, '25 SRP (Utah)
OUT: Clarkson, Hendricks, Juzang

MN in: Avdija and Kessler
OUT: Randle, TSJ, '25 SRP
1st apron
Mike-ANT-Avdija-Jaden-Rudy
RD-DD-NAW-NAZ-Kessler

Portland is trying to rebuild. Camara and Avdija are both 24 years old and look to be a big part of that. They're not looking to move them just to get off of Grant. Any Randle interest from portland would be a 1-1 swap for Grant just to shorten the contract. But zero interest in moving Camara and Avdija without a crazy high return.

How many seasons does a rebuild usually take?

[Klomp]

Portland is trying to rebuild. Camara and Avdija are both 24 years old and look to be a big part of that. They're not looking to move them just to get off of Grant. Any Randle interest from portland would be a 1-1 swap for Grant just to shorten the contract. But zero interest in moving Camara and Avdija without a crazy high return.

How many seasons does a rebuild usually take?

They are only 1 season and 26 games into their rebuild

[cucad8]

Maybe you guys will like this a little better? I'm basically trying to get this as a return from the KAT trade:
-extend NAZ and NAW
-DD @ 3/35
-Avdija @ 4/55
-Kessler @ 2/8

Portland in: Randle, Clarkson, Hendricks, TSJ, Juzang
OUT: Grant, Avdija, Camara

Utah in: Grant, Camara, Garza, '25 SRP (Utah)
OUT: Clarkson, Hendricks, Juzang

MN in: Avdija and Kessler
OUT: Randle, TSJ, '25 SRP
1st apron
Mike-ANT-Avdija-Jaden-Rudy
RD-DD-NAW-NAZ-Kessler

Portland is trying to rebuild. Camara and Avdija are both 24 years old and look to be a big part of that. They're not looking to move them just to get off of Grant. Any Randle interest from portland would be a 1-1 swap for Grant just to shorten the contract. But zero interest in moving Camara and Avdija without a crazy high return.

How many seasons does a rebuild usually take?

Obviously depends on the team

[winforlose]

Portland is trying to rebuild. Camara and Avdija are both 24 years old and look to be a big part of that. They're not looking to move them just to get off of Grant. Any Randle interest from portland would be a 1-1 swap for Grant just to shorten the contract. But zero interest in moving Camara and Avdija without a crazy high return.

How many seasons does a rebuild usually take?

Obviously depends on the team

How many seasons do expect this one to take? I ask because 24 is not online with a rebuild unless you expect a short one.

[BlacJacMac]

How many seasons does a rebuild usually take?

Obviously depends on the team

How many seasons do expect this one to take? I ask because 24 is not online with a rebuild unless you expect a short one.

That's 2 years removed from a college senior.

If your rebuild is going to take more than 3 years, you're the Timberwolves.

[winforlose]

Obviously depends on the team

How many seasons do expect this one to take? I ask because 24 is not online with a rebuild unless you expect a short one.

That's 2 years removed from a college senior.

If your rebuild is going to take more than 3 years, you're the Timberwolves.

Or the Jazz, or the 76ers, or the Thunder, ect… If you plan to compete in 3 years than 24 turns to 27 and now your in your prime and ready to contribute at a high level (one hopes.) But, if the rebuild is gonna take 5 years, now two years of that prime is wasted tanking, and those players might not want to be there for that. Rebuilds are often hit or miss and depend on drafting well, getting lucky with the lottery, and having the right talent development group to help shape the young players. I am just saying don’t expect guys like Deni to be excited by the prospect of going through another multiple years of losing.

[BlacJacMac]

How many seasons do expect this one to take? I ask because 24 is not online with a rebuild unless you expect a short one.

That's 2 years removed from a college senior.

If your rebuild is going to take more than 3 years, you're the Timberwolves.

Or the Jazz, or the 76ers, or the Thunder, ect… If you plan to compete in 3 years than 24 turns to 27 and now your in your prime and ready to contribute at a high level (one hopes.) But, if the rebuild is gonna take 5 years, now two years of that prime is wasted tanking, and those players might not want to be there for that. Rebuilds are often hit or miss and depend on drafting well, getting lucky with the lottery, and having the right talent development group to help shape the young players. I am just saying don’t expect guys like Deni to be excited by the prospect of going through another multiple years of losing.

Sure, **** can happen. But you don't build around that idea.

If your plan says "24 is too old", then your plan is dead before you start.

Plus you can't build a team around just super youth (both from an inexperience standpoint and the idea that all their contracts will be up at the same time). Ideally you have a few guys who have been around long enough to learn some things, but not so old that they can't be part of a multi-year window.

[winforlose]

That's 2 years removed from a college senior.

If your rebuild is going to take more than 3 years, you're the Timberwolves.

Or the Jazz, or the 76ers, or the Thunder, ect… If you plan to compete in 3 years than 24 turns to 27 and now your in your prime and ready to contribute at a high level (one hopes.) But, if the rebuild is gonna take 5 years, now two years of that prime is wasted tanking, and those players might not want to be there for that. Rebuilds are often hit or miss and depend on drafting well, getting lucky with the lottery, and having the right talent development group to help shape the young players. I am just saying don’t expect guys like Deni to be excited by the prospect of going through another multiple years of losing.

Sure, **** can happen. But you don't build around that idea.

If your plan says "24 is too old", then your plan is dead before you start.

Plus you can't build a team around just super youth (both from an inexperience standpoint and the idea that all their contracts will be up at the same time). Ideally you have a few guys who have been around long enough to learn some things, but not so old that they can't be part of a multi-year window.

I never said too old, I said not ideal. Who is the best player on the Blazers. If they don’t get a top 5 pick is their pick going to be a game changer? Deni has been part of a tank the last 3 years. Does he want to be part of one for another 4-5? I am pushing back on this notion that 24 year old role players are gonna be key pieces of a rebuild. They might, they might not.

P.S the Blazer’s don’t have that big a war chest of picks and that is usually a big part of the short rebuild.

[Norseman79]

Yeah, we definitely don't need another scorer

[minimus]

Lets save a few more bucks

Randle for Brogdon, Bey

Gobert/Reid + Garza
Reid/Minott/Bey + Miller
McDaniels/NAW + TJ
Edwards/DDV
Conley/Brogdon/Dill

[Norseman79]

Look, Conley is cooked. He needs to be coming off the bench or playing extremely limited minutes. If there's any hope of playoffs or any type of playoff run, we need to find some type of a point guard that can score. Let's be really clear, Edwards can score, if Naz starts he can kind of score, McDaniels and Rudy cannot. On the bench, there is no one that can score. Alexander Walker can knock down some shots if he's set up and open, same with Donte. If Randle would actually buy in to defensive concepts, or if Conley were 5 years younger, we would be fine, but we aren't.

I'm not saying blow it up, but two people need to go....Randle and either Naw or DD. I would rather send DD, we would likely get more for NAW.

It's also obviously time to give Miller some run as backup 4.

[_AIJ_]

Benching Randle alone and not playing him would help the team a lot

[MN7725]

Look, Conley is cooked. He needs to be coming off the bench or playing extremely limited minutes. If there's any hope of playoffs or any type of playoff run, we need to find some type of a point guard that can score. Let's be really clear, Edwards can score, if Naz starts he can kind of score, McDaniels and Rudy cannot. On the bench, there is no one that can score. Alexander Walker can knock down some shots if he's set up and open, same with Donte. If Randle would actually buy in to defensive concepts, or if Conley were 5 years younger, we would be fine, but we aren't.

I'm not saying blow it up, but two people need to go....Randle and either Naw or DD. I would rather send DD, we would likely get more for NAW.

It's also obviously time to give Miller some run as backup 4.

would the Wolves had been able to keep KAT (in terms of apron) if Conley didn't get that extension ?

[Guest84]

Team needs to have some difficult conversations about what to do going forward. In terms of players, Mike, DDV, Randle....actually, everyone should be considered when discussing potential trades. Ant is probably the only one (by default) who shouldn't be considered just yet.

This is a throw-away season if the team is kept as-is. So the focus should turn to building chemistry with and developing some of the younger guys with Ant. They also need to have a real conversation with Ant about improving his awareness. Use the Phx series for reference as well. I felt that was his best series performance-wise and also from an awareness standpoint.

[TimberKat]

Team needs to have some difficult conversations about what to do going forward. In terms of players, Mike, DDV, Randle....actually, everyone should be considered when discussing potential trades. Ant is probably the only one (by default) who shouldn't be considered just yet.

This is a throw-away season if the team is kept as-is. So the focus should turn to building chemistry with and developing some of the younger guys with Ant. They also need to have a real conversation with Ant about improving his awareness. Use the Phx series for reference as well. I felt that was his best series performance-wise and also from an awareness standpoint.

I say we consider everyone as long as it's a good trade and trade up. Towns trade was not good. Gobert was risky and controversial but not trading down (in my opinion). Although, maybe it's time to throw in the towel and start over.

[TheZachAttack]

I think the biggest problem is Gobert. I will give Gobert his props for his defense and will say or agree that he is as good as his proponents say. Gobert's real limiting factor is on the offensive end. The way to release pressure with the two on the ball strategy is to pass to the big in the short roll. And while Gobert at times has shown some ability, saying that he is "good" at this is just not true. Teams are happy to win and play against an offense with Gobert in the short roll. To release pressure, two on the ball you need to be able to pass to the big and the big needs to be able to attack the smaller help defender at the rim and/or take 1-2 dribbles and draw that defender and hit open shooters to get the defense in rotation. The second problem with this is that our shooters are generally Jaden/Randle which teams will also live with.

The team has hitched their wagon to Gobert and so what that means to me is that we need to get shooting in the lineup. I'd like to see them trade Randle/Jaden/Pistons 1st for Brandon Ingram. Randle had success with the Pelicans in the past and from their standpoint they want to rebuild around defensive length and wings. Trey Murphy, Herb Jones, and Jaden would be a great trio for them to rebuild around and Randle would likely walk.

Ingram is what we hoped Randle would be. He is also a player in that same range as Randle who cannot be a first star. But Ingram is one of the best mid range shooters in the league and is a more capable 3 point shooter even at some volume. In addition, he's a pretty good passer for that size and you can run offense through him that starts from the perimeter. He isn't as bothered by congestion in the paint because of his length and mid range shot.

NAW, for the money, is better than Jaden and Jaden's shot -- especially with Rudy will always be limiting. This move would allow the Wolves to get more ball handling and shooting into the lineup which is crucial.

Conley
Dante
Ant
Ingram
Gobert

Naz/Dillingham/NAW off the bench. You can inject NAW for more defense if you want. I'm not sure if we would be good enough defensively but this lineup at least would help unlock Ant. I think you can find ways to find defensive role players and have a lineup that can actually function offensively.

I don't think Fox is obtainable unless the Kings really blow things up. And I think it would cost you Randle/Dillingham/Jaden.

I won't comment on a trade of KAT/Jaden for Ingram/Dante, but in a world where Dante is who he was last year and with NAW's progression it wouldn't be the end of the world.