ImageImageImage

Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST)

Moderators: Domejandro, Calinks, Worm Guts

User avatar
m2002brian
Analyst
Posts: 3,279
And1: 1,345
Joined: May 29, 2009
     

Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#461 » by m2002brian » Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:02 pm

Chello1 wrote:
Slim Tubby wrote:KAT's extremely talented but all of his issues are between his ears. He lacks emotional toughness and leadership skills.
The issue with trading KAT is we will NEVER get equal return value let alone win the trade.



Ask the Wild how it has worked for them. Out with the soft players so you can become tougher as a team and actually improve with less talent. We can go to about 5-6 teams and trade KAT right now for a good haul. I like the Suns in a trade that includes Ayton and other things........



So true. Toughness and bbiq will bring more wins than raw (maybe even) empty stats. Memphis (even before ja) is a great example of a tough team. Add 2 extremely talented AND hard working players who also have leadership skills. Watch out.
BLUEGREENRED
Wolveswin
General Manager
Posts: 7,745
And1: 2,718
Joined: Aug 22, 2020
 

Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#462 » by Wolveswin » Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:43 pm

I would call up Brad/Celtics and see if he is ready to put his definitive stamp on HIS roster?

Towns + Russell + _________ (into Celtics TPE)

FOR

Brown + Horford + Schroeder

Probably pull a 1st and/or couple swaps Wolves way with that deal. Brad can take Beasley or Prince or Okogie into that TPE.

Towns would look great next to Williams on Celtics roster. Heck Russell next to Smart might be a game changer too. Tatum would be 100% handed the Celtics roster as Batman, with Towns as Robin and Russell the trusty sidekick.

Question would be: Wolves keep Brown or send him to third team for youth/picks? My vote would be rebuild youth/picks around Edwards. But this lineup would be interesting:

Horford | Reid
McDaniels | JV
Brown | Bolmaro
Edwards | Beasley or Okogie
Beverley | Schroeder | Vet (Rubio next season?)
BlacJacMac
Analyst
Posts: 3,245
And1: 2,940
Joined: Aug 25, 2020
       

Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#463 » by BlacJacMac » Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:07 pm

Wolveswin wrote:I would call up Brad/Celtics and see if he is ready to put his definitive stamp on HIS roster?

Towns + Russell + _________ (into Celtics TPE)

FOR

Brown + Horford + Schroeder

Probably pull a 1st and/or couple swaps Wolves way with that deal. Brad can take Beasley or Prince or Okogie into that TPE.

Towns would look great next to Williams on Celtics roster. Heck Russell next to Smart might be a game changer too. Tatum would be 100% handed the Celtics roster as Batman, with Towns as Robin and Russell the trusty sidekick.

Question would be: Wolves keep Brown or send him to third team for youth/picks? My vote would be rebuild youth/picks around Edwards. But this lineup would be interesting:

Horford | Reid
McDaniels | JV
Brown | Bolmaro
Edwards | Beasley or Okogie
Beverley | Schroeder | Vet (Rubio next season?)


Keep him.

He just turned 25 last month, is a true 2-way wing and a career 38% 3pt shooter. He could be Ant's "wing-mate" for the next 7-10 years.

The odds of getting a better player in the draft are very slim.
Neeva
Head Coach
Posts: 7,229
And1: 2,731
Joined: Jun 03, 2016

Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#464 » by Neeva » Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:11 pm

Brown is overrated but he will be a good influence off the court for the wolves young players. Wolves need more players like Brown and less like that loser Beasley.
Klomp
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 68,004
And1: 21,703
Joined: Jul 08, 2005
Contact:
   

Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#465 » by Klomp » Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:05 pm

Chello1 wrote:
Domejandro wrote:
Chello1 wrote:Until we trade KAT we will always be mediocre. You can't pay a #3 on a good team star money. He and DLO have to go before we can get this correct. Need to build around ANT..... I also think we need to trade McDaniels before all of his warts are seen.

“We will never be good until we trade literally the only positive impact player on the entire roster.”


Seriously? Ant? And Kevin Love jr or KAt as we call him will never help us win because you can't have a toothless alpha and he is the epitome of that. He is just what Love was- a great Robin to someone elses Batman. When Jimmy Butler was here showed everyone what was up. We also do not want to get Ben Simmons- he is the same type of player.

I guess KG was a toothless alpha too because he didn't win anything until he was a Robin to Paul Pierce. Guessing you were excited to trade him.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
Note30
Head Coach
Posts: 6,105
And1: 1,866
Joined: Feb 25, 2014
 

Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#466 » by Note30 » Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:08 pm

Klomp wrote:
Chello1 wrote:
Domejandro wrote:“We will never be good until we trade literally the only positive impact player on the entire roster.”


Seriously? Ant? And Kevin Love jr or KAt as we call him will never help us win because you can't have a toothless alpha and he is the epitome of that. He is just what Love was- a great Robin to someone elses Batman. When Jimmy Butler was here showed everyone what was up. We also do not want to get Ben Simmons- he is the same type of player.

I guess KG was a toothless alpha too because he didn't win anything until he was a Robin to Paul Pierce. Guessing you were excited to trade him.


What are you talking about. KGs years were the only years we were a winning team. We got to the WCF. And we were a top team in the West.

How can you possibly compare that to Love and KAT where we have only had losing records with them as our main players.
Slim Tubby
Veteran
Posts: 2,776
And1: 2,380
Joined: Jun 03, 2017
         

Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#467 » by Slim Tubby » Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:13 pm

Klomp wrote:
Chello1 wrote:
Domejandro wrote:“We will never be good until we trade literally the only positive impact player on the entire roster.”


Seriously? Ant? And Kevin Love jr or KAt as we call him will never help us win because you can't have a toothless alpha and he is the epitome of that. He is just what Love was- a great Robin to someone elses Batman. When Jimmy Butler was here showed everyone what was up. We also do not want to get Ben Simmons- he is the same type of player.

I guess KG was a toothless alpha too because he didn't win anything until he was a Robin to Paul Pierce. Guessing you were excited to trade him.


Your analogy using KG in comparison to KAT is just wrong, respectfully. Both are/were extremely talented players but only one of them played with controlled passion and was a leader on the court and in the locker room.

Is trading KAT the right answer? I don't know...but I'm more open to moving him for a great package at this point more than ever. I just don't think we'll get anything back worthy of his talent. I think a mid-season trade is unlikely to happen and should be. Let the Lottery balls fall first so we actually know where every team is picking and then we go from "perceived" value to "tangible" value as it pertains to potential Draft Picks coming back our way.
Glen Taylor: "Is this moron #1 (Layden)? Put moron #2 (Thibs) on the phone."
shrink
RealGM
Posts: 59,126
And1: 19,083
Joined: Sep 26, 2005

Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#468 » by shrink » Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:42 pm

Chello1 wrote:Seriously? Ant? And Kevin Love jr or KAt as we call him will never help us win because you can't have a toothless alpha and he is the epitome of that. He is just what Love was- a great Robin to someone elses Batman.

It feels like people here would be mad at Robin for not being Batman.

Right now we have a potential Batman in Ant. He has massive potential and he can be the best “put the ball in his hands at the end of games” player here I can remember. But what characteristics do you want in a Robin?

1. If a guard, you want a big
2. He needs a skillset that compliments, and doesn’t cover over, the #1.
3. He needs to be willing to pass the ball, even in late game situations.

In my book, that description is KAT. He has size, he spreads the floor for Ant’s drives, and he’s always passed - even to far less talented teammates than Ant. There is no reason you can’t pay your #2 a max deal either, especially when your #1 is on rookie scale.
SCTwins
Rookie
Posts: 1,004
And1: 884
Joined: Jun 22, 2018
     

Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#469 » by SCTwins » Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:52 pm

I think half of the issues with KAT would be solved if he moved to the 4 (I know, I know..) and played next to a legit C.

KAT shedding 40 lbs has made his post game ineffective. Just let him roam around and launch threes. Not a lot of people are used to guarding a 7 footer on the perimeter who can use screens to get open like KAT can.

KAT is what he is, so use him that way and unlock his real potential as a 7' SG.

If we trade him, we better be getting back a haul. Don't let the league undervalue his skillset just because it hasn't worked out here overall.
MN7725
Veteran
Posts: 2,887
And1: 1,224
Joined: Jun 19, 2017

Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#470 » by MN7725 » Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:54 pm

SCTwins wrote:I think half of the issues with KAT would be solved if he moved to the 4 (I know, I know..) and played next to a legit C.

KAT shedding 40 lbs has made his post game ineffective. Just let him roam around and launch threes. Not a lot of people are used to guarding a 7 footer on the perimeter who can use screens to get open like KAT can.

KAT is what he is, so use him that way and unlock his real potential as a 7' SG.

If we trade him, we better be getting back a haul. Don't let the league undervalue his skillset just because it hasn't worked out here overall.


Kind of where I'm at, try him in a different role before thinking of trading

It's 100x easier to find a traditional C than the ideal PF
it will be definitely awkward playing KAT with a normal "C", but if the "C" is competent enough on D and boards, KAT can probably out-talent his matchup a lot of nights, and won't have to spend as much energy banging bodies or being last line of defense

and I say this as someone who has always been more of a small ballish lineup guy with KAT playing with two combo forward types
but again, its much harder to find those type of players since every team wants them, whereas C's are least valued players in league
shrink
RealGM
Posts: 59,126
And1: 19,083
Joined: Sep 26, 2005

Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#471 » by shrink » Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:11 am

SCTwins wrote:KAT is what he is, so use him that way and unlock his real potential as a 7' SG.

I remember him winning the Skills Competition at the All Star Game a while back.

Compare and contrast him with Dirk?
SCTwins
Rookie
Posts: 1,004
And1: 884
Joined: Jun 22, 2018
     

Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#472 » by SCTwins » Sat Nov 13, 2021 2:29 am

shrink wrote:
SCTwins wrote:KAT is what he is, so use him that way and unlock his real potential as a 7' SG.

I remember him winning the Skills Competition at the All Star Game a while back.

Compare and contrast him with Dirk?


KAT basically is Dirk with a better handle, talent-wise. They have the same strengths and weaknesses.

I just can't believe we've never experimented with this before, even though it's been obvious for years that KAT gets pushed around by other bigs. Can he score in the post? Sure. But it's also where he makes most of his mistakes and loses his cool when things don't go his way.

And its not like bringing in a true big means KAT can't play the 5 ever again. You can still play him there when the matchups permit it.

Why not try something new after 6 years of lackluster results? The closest he's ever come to playing with a legit interior defender was 15mpg KG.
old school 34
Senior
Posts: 645
And1: 240
Joined: Jun 14, 2018
         

Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#473 » by old school 34 » Sun Nov 14, 2021 4:27 am

shrink wrote:
Chello1 wrote:Seriously? Ant? And Kevin Love jr or KAt as we call him will never help us win because you can't have a toothless alpha and he is the epitome of that. He is just what Love was- a great Robin to someone elses Batman.

It feels like people here would be mad at Robin for not being Batman.

Right now we have a potential Batman in Ant. He has massive potential and he can be the best “put the ball in his hands at the end of games” player here I can remember. But what characteristics do you want in a Robin?

1. If a guard, you want a big
2. He needs a skillset that compliments, and doesn’t cover over, the #1.
3. He needs to be willing to pass the ball, even in late game situations.

In my book, that description is KAT. He has size, he spreads the floor for Ant’s drives, and he’s always passed - even to far less talented teammates than Ant. There is no reason you can’t pay your #2 a max deal either, especially when your #1 is on rookie scale.
Yeah, I don't see any reason to rush to make a KAT trade....only reason you even consider it would be you get a equivalent top 2 or 3 type core guy or he demands a trade. Otherwise, let it play out....I would rather see if Ant can grow/develop to become alpha & KAT accepts Robin. The more important deal is finding the 3rd part...obviously more difficult with our remaining assets....but I'd still be more intrigued in giving up some of the other parts & presumably draft picks to find better fitting 3rd wheel...as our current roster construction still has too many players where they're best position is the 2 guard & with exception of Ant...the rest aren't athletic or skilled enough to really have great positon flexibility if you really want to be playoff caliber anyways.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
Domejandro
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Posts: 20,092
And1: 30,141
Joined: Jul 29, 2014

Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#474 » by Domejandro » Sun Nov 14, 2021 5:14 am

Chello1 wrote:
Domejandro wrote:
Chello1 wrote:Until we trade KAT we will always be mediocre. You can't pay a #3 on a good team star money. He and DLO have to go before we can get this correct. Need to build around ANT..... I also think we need to trade McDaniels before all of his warts are seen.

“We will never be good until we trade literally the only positive impact player on the entire roster.”


Seriously? Ant? And Kevin Love jr or KAt as we call him will never help us win because you can't have a toothless alpha and he is the epitome of that. He is just what Love was- a great Robin to someone elses Batman. When Jimmy Butler was here showed everyone what was up. We also do not want to get Ben Simmons- he is the same type of player.

Just a staggering amount of objectionable takes for one post.

1. Anthony Edwards is not currently a net-positive player in most games. He has potential, but his turnovers, inconsistent defense, and low efficiency are problematic.

2. Kevin Love was excellent for Minnesota, despite the team’s horrible health and talent. Weird revisionism.

3. The “toothless alpha” phrase is entirely meaningless.

4. Most winning teams have three players on max contracts. Even if Karl-Anthony Towns is the Alfred to the Robin to someone else’s Batman, he would still work within the salary cap.

5. Amazing! You literally just showcased how Minnesota won (with Jimmy Butler) when Karl-Anthony Towns was complimented by another star player. Astonishing how Minnesota has no pathway to winning with Towns, until it conveniently fits the rhetoric that he is not a #1!

6. Not engaging with the Ben Simmons comment, this forum has thoroughly convinced me not to bother.
User avatar
D1SGRUNTL3D
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,104
And1: 2,080
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Location: Minnesota
   

Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#475 » by D1SGRUNTL3D » Sun Nov 14, 2021 5:17 am

SCTwins wrote:
shrink wrote:
SCTwins wrote:KAT is what he is, so use him that way and unlock his real potential as a 7' SG.

I remember him winning the Skills Competition at the All Star Game a while back.

Compare and contrast him with Dirk?


KAT basically is Dirk with a better handle, talent-wise. They have the same strengths and weaknesses.

I just can't believe we've never experimented with this before, even though it's been obvious for years that KAT gets pushed around by other bigs. Can he score in the post? Sure. But it's also where he makes most of his mistakes and loses his cool when things don't go his way.

And its not like bringing in a true big means KAT can't play the 5 ever again. You can still play him there when the matchups permit it.

Why not try something new after 6 years of lackluster results? The closest he's ever come to playing with a legit interior defender was 15mpg KG.

Lmfao.

Dirk the original unicorn. The standard. Nothing kat does is creative. Dirk is a winner, 50+ win seasons year in year out.

Kat can’t lead a team to 20 wins.
SCTwins
Rookie
Posts: 1,004
And1: 884
Joined: Jun 22, 2018
     

Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#476 » by SCTwins » Sun Nov 14, 2021 5:39 am

D1SGRUNTL3D wrote:
SCTwins wrote:
shrink wrote:I remember him winning the Skills Competition at the All Star Game a while back.

Compare and contrast him with Dirk?


KAT basically is Dirk with a better handle, talent-wise. They have the same strengths and weaknesses.

I just can't believe we've never experimented with this before, even though it's been obvious for years that KAT gets pushed around by other bigs. Can he score in the post? Sure. But it's also where he makes most of his mistakes and loses his cool when things don't go his way.

And its not like bringing in a true big means KAT can't play the 5 ever again. You can still play him there when the matchups permit it.

Why not try something new after 6 years of lackluster results? The closest he's ever come to playing with a legit interior defender was 15mpg KG.

Lmfao.

Dirk the original unicorn. The standard. Nothing kat does is creative. Dirk is a winner, 50+ win seasons year in year out.

Kat can’t lead a team to 20 wins.


Well good thing I never claimed that he is better than Dirk..
shangrila
RealGM
Posts: 13,459
And1: 6,520
Joined: Dec 21, 2009
Location: Land of Aus
 

Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#477 » by shangrila » Sun Nov 14, 2021 7:49 am

shrink wrote:
Chello1 wrote:Seriously? Ant? And Kevin Love jr or KAt as we call him will never help us win because you can't have a toothless alpha and he is the epitome of that. He is just what Love was- a great Robin to someone elses Batman.

It feels like people here would be mad at Robin for not being Batman.

Right now we have a potential Batman in Ant. He has massive potential and he can be the best “put the ball in his hands at the end of games” player here I can remember. But what characteristics do you want in a Robin?

1. If a guard, you want a big
2. He needs a skillset that compliments, and doesn’t cover over, the #1.
3. He needs to be willing to pass the ball, even in late game situations.

In my book, that description is KAT. He has size, he spreads the floor for Ant’s drives, and he’s always passed - even to far less talented teammates than Ant. There is no reason you can’t pay your #2 a max deal either, especially when your #1 is on rookie scale.

Offensively? Sure, he fits like a glove. In theory, anyway.

Mostly though if he's just there to move the ball and hit 3s then we don't need a max guy for that, which is where the problem lies; he's under-utilized. Now, I'm sure some will argue that's the coaches fault or the players fault or the refs fault or whoever but at the end of the day, Towns is paid the money, carries himself like a star and should be demanding the ball if he's not getting it enough. So basically it's a temperament issue. He's paid the money and talks like a star but acts like a role player. Which, if that's the case, we could fill that role for a fraction of the price.

Realistically, a Robin should be able to moonlight as Batman when needed. He should be able to carry the offence for stretches and to help create looks for his teammates. And in the modern NBA, that isn't what you get from bigs. It can work, in rare instances, but the fact that bigs need to be fed the ball creates a middle man situation that increases the chance of issues. That's not a knock on Towns, but it is a realistic aspect of who he is as a player.

And that's not even addressing the real issue, which is defence. Even now, after 7 years, he's still a bad defender. Has he improved? Oh, yes, of course. But that's going from terrible to bad. And before the arguments come in, I know he's not playing with the All Defence team, but he shouldn't have to. There's plenty of good defenders on bad teams and he's just never shown it. In fact, that time he went out with an injury and the exact same roster + Dieng went from like last in defence to first should have been a fairly damning indictment.

It should be clear at this point that you can't be competitive giving big minutes to a big that can't either guard their own matchup or provide help defence, which unfortunately describes Towns.

So I'd rather find another perimeter scorer to pair with Ant, someone who can play both on and off ball and is at least capable on defence. Then work on finding a role player for the C position that can provide that help defence every team needs. Swapping Towns for Brandon Ingram, for example, would make us a better team. And that's not to say Ingram is a better talent but I think a guy like that + a decent C is better than Towns + a decent forward.
shrink
RealGM
Posts: 59,126
And1: 19,083
Joined: Sep 26, 2005

Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#478 » by shrink » Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:58 am

Horrible trade from Bleacher Report

Boston Celtics receive: Karl-Anthony Towns

Philadelphia 76ers receive: Jaylen Brown and Patrick Beverley

Minnesota Timberwolves receive: Ben Simmons, Robert Williams III, Matisse Thybulle, Jaden Springer and 2022 first-round pick (from PHI)


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2950297-a-new-ben-simmons-blockbuster-plus-3-fresh-nba-trade-ideas
User avatar
Foye
Club Captain- German Soccer
Posts: 25,039
And1: 3,602
Joined: Jul 29, 2008
Location: Frankfurt
 

Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#479 » by Foye » Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:35 pm

shrink wrote:Horrible trade from Bleacher Report

Boston Celtics receive: Karl-Anthony Towns

Philadelphia 76ers receive: Jaylen Brown and Patrick Beverley

Minnesota Timberwolves receive: Ben Simmons, Robert Williams III, Matisse Thybulle, Jaden Springer and 2022 first-round pick (from PHI)


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2950297-a-new-ben-simmons-blockbuster-plus-3-fresh-nba-trade-ideas


These are the type of low ball offers you are going to see frequently now.
That's why I am saying for two years that Towns needed to be traded while his value was high...his value has taken a huge hit to the point where you are getting 50-60 cents return for your $ now. At the same time keeping him means the team will continue to hover around no mans land the way they have done in recent years.

Two years ago you could've gotten $1.5 for your $ return.
One year ago you could've gotten $1.0-1.2 for your $ return.
This season you will get $0.8 for your $ return at max.
Next season you will get $0.6 for your $ return.
Dewey
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,883
And1: 1,061
Joined: May 22, 2001

Re: Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST) 

Post#480 » by Dewey » Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:46 pm

Foye wrote:
shrink wrote:Horrible trade from Bleacher Report

Boston Celtics receive: Karl-Anthony Towns

Philadelphia 76ers receive: Jaylen Brown and Patrick Beverley

Minnesota Timberwolves receive: Ben Simmons, Robert Williams III, Matisse Thybulle, Jaden Springer and 2022 first-round pick (from PHI)


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2950297-a-new-ben-simmons-blockbuster-plus-3-fresh-nba-trade-ideas


These are the type of low ball offers you are going to see frequently now.
That's why I am saying for two years that Towns needed to be traded while his value was high...his value has taken a huge hit to the point where you are getting 50-60 cents return for your $ now. At the same time keeping him means the team will continue to hover around no mans land the way they have done in recent years.

Two years ago you could've gotten $1.5 for your $ return.
One year ago you could've gotten $1.0-1.2 for your $ return.
This season you will get $0.8 for your $ return at max.
Next season you will get $0.6 for your $ return.

Of course everyone low-balls in season … been that way since flipper was a minnow. Any KAT trade will be in the off-season. He’ll bring a haul - he’s in his prime and healthy. Flailing value is fictional
Flip response to Love wanting out, "He has no reason to be upset, you're either a part of the problem or a part of the solution"

Return to Minnesota Timberwolves