Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition)

[SO_MONEY]

I'll take a swing at a Simmons deal using the premise that a 3rd team with a "win now" player needs to be part of any trade:

MIN in: Simmons ($33M)
MIN out: Prince ($13M), Beverly ($13M), McDaniels ($2M), 2022 FRP (Top 8) & 2024 FRP (Top 8)

PHI in: Grant ($20M), Beverly ($13M) and 2024 FRP (MIN)
PHI out: Simmons ($33M)

DET in: McDaniels ($2M), Prince ($13M), Bolmaro ($2M) & 2022 FRP (MIN)
DET out: Grant ($20M)

*** MIN gets Simmons while hanging on to KAT, Ant & Russell but at the cost of McDaniels and Two (2) FRP's

*** PHI gets a very nice "win now" piece in Grant along with PG help (Beverly) & future FRP

*** DET - The rebuild gets a huge boost with McDaniels, Bolmaro & 2022 FRP to add to what appears very good young nucleus in Cunningham, Bey, Stewart & Hayes

Too rich for my blood.

[Ballerhogger]

Read on Twitter

?s=20 like you cant give up ant man. Give up dlo if you must.

[KGdaBom]

I'll take a swing at a Simmons deal using the premise that a 3rd team with a "win now" player needs to be part of any trade:

MIN in: Simmons ($33M)
MIN out: Prince ($13M), Beverly ($13M), McDaniels ($2M), 2022 FRP (Top 8) & 2024 FRP (Top 8)

PHI in: Grant ($20M), Beverly ($13M) and 2024 FRP (MIN)
PHI out: Simmons ($33M)

DET in: McDaniels ($2M), Prince ($13M), Bolmaro ($2M) & 2022 FRP (MIN)
DET out: Grant ($20M)

*** MIN gets Simmons while hanging on to KAT, Ant & Russell but at the cost of McDaniels and Two (2) FRP's

*** PHI gets a very nice "win now" piece in Grant along with PG help (Beverly) & future FRP

*** DET - The rebuild gets a huge boost with McDaniels, Bolmaro & 2022 FRP to add to what appears very good young nucleus in Cunningham, Bey, Stewart & Hayes

You're sending out 4 FRPs in this deal and two of them that look very promising in McDaniel and Bolmaro. Too rich for my blood.

[shrink]

At this point of the drama, is it even possible for Philly to get a return that makes them better than they are with Simmons? Of all the rumored deals, McCollum and RoCo would seem like the closest to that result but we really don't know for sure if that is even being offered by POR.

Most of the time, teams don’t get full value when dealing a star. This is especially true when a star demands a trade, and Simmons action is the most extreme trade demand ever.

I would also point put Brian Windhorst doesn’t believe POR would trade McCollum for Simmons because Simmons is so hard to fit a team next to. This “McCollum + Covington” isn’t a rumor - it’s PHI fans wishful thinking.

I get this logic but I also don’t get what Portland is doing. How many times are they going to run back the same core / roster construction and expect a different result?

I agree with you, but Windhorst believes that first POR has to get to a place where they’d trade away McCollum, and even if they reached that point, he feels that if McCollum was on the market, other teams would make better offers that fit POR better.

[winforlose]

Nothing has changed. Ben Simmons is not playing for Philadelphia, and Philadelphia is not accepting a subpar offer. I think this situation is a lot less exciting than people want it to be, if I am being honest. It’ll get resolved, but there is no countdown timer.

I cannot help but wonder if the NBA will get involved and make an example out of Simmons. This is the absolute worst possible scenario for the organization. A player refuses to honor their existing contract and is rewarded with a trade to their preferred destination. If every player of any value pulled this the entire contract scheme unravels. I could see the NBA suspending Simmons for the season and blocking any trade involving him.

What am I missing here? Is Ben the first player to demand a trade and say he won't report? If not, what has the NBA done to other players?

Earl Monroe demanded a trade out of Baltimore in the early 70's. Not only did he stay home (possibly by the team's request), but he went to the rival ABA to discuss switching leagues if Baltimore wouldn't trade him.

It’s an issue of degrees. We have seen AD demand a trade but remain professional until the offseason, we have seen Harden and Butler demand trades and then show up but not act professional about it. Finally we have Simmons, refusing contact with the organization, refusing contact with his teammates, tying up a max contract slot but refusing to do anything to help the 76ers win or even prepare for the season. It undermines the 76ers season which could easily effect ticket sales and cost revenue. It is also a move that undermines the whole concept of bird rights and player retention. A player saying I will give up my salary and take fines from the league just to make sure I do nothing to enable my team to win while still losing a roster slot, salary towards the cap, ect…., is just not tenable in the modern game. Especially with super teams forming, behind the scenes tampering, and all the big names going to the biggest markets.

[Krapinsky]

I'll take a swing at a Simmons deal using the premise that a 3rd team with a "win now" player needs to be part of any trade:

MIN in: Simmons ($33M)
MIN out: Prince ($13M), Beverly ($13M), McDaniels ($2M), 2022 FRP (Top 8) & 2024 FRP (Top 8)

PHI in: Grant ($20M), Beverly ($13M) and 2024 FRP (MIN)
PHI out: Simmons ($33M)

DET in: McDaniels ($2M), Prince ($13M), Bolmaro ($2M) & 2022 FRP (MIN)
DET out: Grant ($20M)

*** MIN gets Simmons while hanging on to KAT, Ant & Russell but at the cost of McDaniels and Two (2) FRP's

*** PHI gets a very nice "win now" piece in Grant along with PG help (Beverly) & future FRP

*** DET - The rebuild gets a huge boost with McDaniels, Bolmaro & 2022 FRP to add to what appears very good young nucleus in Cunningham, Bey, Stewart & Hayes

You're sending out 4 FRPs in this deal and two of them that look very promising in McDaniel and Bolmaro. Too rich for my blood.

I've tinkered with a similar trade construction to this one. I think there is too much value going to Detroit for Grant. Perhaps swap one of Mcdaniels and Bolmaro for Okogie.

However, i think there is a separate issue and that is by gauging reports it sounds as if Philadephia may prefer the 'assets' themselves rather than quality starters like Grant because the 'assets' give them ammo for the next star that Morey covets.

[Note30]

Alright here's my take including Detroit and Indiana

MIN in: Simmons, Curry
MIN out: Beverly, Prince, Beasley, 2 FRP, 1 pick swap, 5 second round picks

Pacers IN: Beverly, Maxey, 1 UFRP, 1 pick swap (2027), 2 2nds
Pacers Out: Brogdon

Pistons In: Prince, Isaiah Joe, 1 Protected FRP, 3 second round picks
Pistons Out: Grant

PHI in: Brogdon, Grant, Beasley
PHI out: Simmons, Curry, Maxey, Joe

[SO_MONEY]

Most of the time, teams don’t get full value when dealing a star. This is especially true when a star demands a trade, and Simmons action is the most extreme trade demand ever.

I would also point put Brian Windhorst doesn’t believe POR would trade McCollum for Simmons because Simmons is so hard to fit a team next to. This “McCollum + Covington” isn’t a rumor - it’s PHI fans wishful thinking.

I get this logic but I also don’t get what Portland is doing. How many times are they going to run back the same core / roster construction and expect a different result?

I agree with you, but Windhorst believes that first POR has to get to a place where they’d trade away McCollum, and even if they reached that point, he feels that if McCollum was on the market, other teams would make better offers that fit POR better.

Ouch.

If it is accurate Portland wouldn't trade McCullum for Simmons, I think this might indicate to some of the holdouts why these excessive offers are rebuffed by others...

There are probably few teams that want Simmons and those that do are not likely interested in paying a premium for taking him. The sooner they get to that reality, is probably when he gets traded. It does appear as though reaching the acceptance stage is a hangup for Philadelphia at this juncture. They still seem to believe they can manipulate themselves out of this, but instead of it working they are getting called out.

[Klomp]

that's a scary thought if they will think about giving up Ant-man....

No one has said Ant is available. In fact, everyone has said the opposite. People need to calm down.

[shangrila]

that's a scary thought if they will think about giving up Ant-man....

No one has said Ant is available. In fact, everyone has said the opposite. People need to calm down.

But hysteria is so much more fun

[Klomp]

Let's remember this when people say it's impossible to build a team with three max contracts.

Read on Twitter

[Domejandro]

I cannot help but wonder if the NBA will get involved and make an example out of Simmons. This is the absolute worst possible scenario for the organization. A player refuses to honor their existing contract and is rewarded with a trade to their preferred destination. If every player of any value pulled this the entire contract scheme unravels. I could see the NBA suspending Simmons for the season and blocking any trade involving him.

What am I missing here? Is Ben the first player to demand a trade and say he won't report? If not, what has the NBA done to other players?

Earl Monroe demanded a trade out of Baltimore in the early 70's. Not only did he stay home (possibly by the team's request), but he went to the rival ABA to discuss switching leagues if Baltimore wouldn't trade him.

It’s an issue of degrees. We have seen AD demand a trade but remain professional until the offseason, we have seen Harden and Butler demand trades and then show up but not act professional about it. Finally we have Simmons, refusing contact with the organization, refusing contact with his teammates, tying up a max contract slot but refusing to do anything to help the 76ers win or even prepare for the season. It undermines the 76ers season which could easily effect ticket sales and cost revenue. It is also a move that undermines the whole concept of bird rights and player retention. A player saying I will give up my salary and take fines from the league just to make sure I do nothing to enable my team to win while still losing a roster slot, salary towards the cap, ect…., is just not tenable in the modern game. Especially with super teams forming, behind the scenes tampering, and all the big names going to the biggest markets.

Anthony Davis sat on the bench for the second half of New Orleans' season before being traded in the off-season. James Harden came into camp abhorrently out-of-shape. Steve Francis literally refused to play for the Vancouver Grizzlies after being drafted. Kawhi Leonard sat out a whole season in San Antonio.

Ben Simmons and the Philadelphia 76ers have a contract. If Ben Simmons does not play, he will not be compensated for those games. Simple as that, this is far less unprecedented than you are suggesting.

[SO_MONEY]

What am I missing here? Is Ben the first player to demand a trade and say he won't report? If not, what has the NBA done to other players?

Earl Monroe demanded a trade out of Baltimore in the early 70's. Not only did he stay home (possibly by the team's request), but he went to the rival ABA to discuss switching leagues if Baltimore wouldn't trade him.

It’s an issue of degrees. We have seen AD demand a trade but remain professional until the offseason, we have seen Harden and Butler demand trades and then show up but not act professional about it. Finally we have Simmons, refusing contact with the organization, refusing contact with his teammates, tying up a max contract slot but refusing to do anything to help the 76ers win or even prepare for the season. It undermines the 76ers season which could easily effect ticket sales and cost revenue. It is also a move that undermines the whole concept of bird rights and player retention. A player saying I will give up my salary and take fines from the league just to make sure I do nothing to enable my team to win while still losing a roster slot, salary towards the cap, ect…., is just not tenable in the modern game. Especially with super teams forming, behind the scenes tampering, and all the big names going to the biggest markets.

Anthony Davis sat on the bench for the second half of New Orleans' season before being traded in the off-season. James Harden came into camp abhorrently out-of-shape. Steve Francis literally refused to play for the Vancouver Grizzlies after being drafted. Kawhi Leonard sat out a whole season in San Antonio.

Ben Simmons and the Philadelphia 76ers have a contract. If Ben Simmons does not play, he will not be compensated for those games. Simple as that, this is far less unprecedented than you are suggesting.

The difference between those situations of course is there were fairly robust markets for those players, holding off wasn't going to do anything, sitting them would only speed up a rebuild. With Simmons there is limited interest, so holding out doesn't benefit your position to negotiate and him sitting doesn't help a rebuild (not what they want).

[Domejandro]

It’s an issue of degrees. We have seen AD demand a trade but remain professional until the offseason, we have seen Harden and Butler demand trades and then show up but not act professional about it. Finally we have Simmons, refusing contact with the organization, refusing contact with his teammates, tying up a max contract slot but refusing to do anything to help the 76ers win or even prepare for the season. It undermines the 76ers season which could easily effect ticket sales and cost revenue. It is also a move that undermines the whole concept of bird rights and player retention. A player saying I will give up my salary and take fines from the league just to make sure I do nothing to enable my team to win while still losing a roster slot, salary towards the cap, ect…., is just not tenable in the modern game. Especially with super teams forming, behind the scenes tampering, and all the big names going to the biggest markets.

Anthony Davis sat on the bench for the second half of New Orleans' season before being traded in the off-season. James Harden came into camp abhorrently out-of-shape. Steve Francis literally refused to play for the Vancouver Grizzlies after being drafted. Kawhi Leonard sat out a whole season in San Antonio.

Ben Simmons and the Philadelphia 76ers have a contract. If Ben Simmons does not play, he will not be compensated for those games. Simple as that, this is far less unprecedented than you are suggesting.

The difference between those situations of course is there were fairly robust markets for those players, holding off wasn't going to do anything, sitting them would only speed up a rebuild. With Simmons there is limited interest, so holding out doesn't benefit your position to negotiate and him sitting doesn't help a rebuild (not what they want).

Kawhi Leonard literally sat out an entire season pretending to be damaged goods to force a trade to the Lakers (San Antonio called the bluff and let him miss the season). This Ben Simmons situation is nothing in comparison to how ridiculous that was.

[Krapinsky]

What am I missing here? Is Ben the first player to demand a trade and say he won't report? If not, what has the NBA done to other players?

Earl Monroe demanded a trade out of Baltimore in the early 70's. Not only did he stay home (possibly by the team's request), but he went to the rival ABA to discuss switching leagues if Baltimore wouldn't trade him.

It’s an issue of degrees. We have seen AD demand a trade but remain professional until the offseason, we have seen Harden and Butler demand trades and then show up but not act professional about it. Finally we have Simmons, refusing contact with the organization, refusing contact with his teammates, tying up a max contract slot but refusing to do anything to help the 76ers win or even prepare for the season. It undermines the 76ers season which could easily effect ticket sales and cost revenue. It is also a move that undermines the whole concept of bird rights and player retention. A player saying I will give up my salary and take fines from the league just to make sure I do nothing to enable my team to win while still losing a roster slot, salary towards the cap, ect…., is just not tenable in the modern game. Especially with super teams forming, behind the scenes tampering, and all the big names going to the biggest markets.

Anthony Davis sat on the bench for the second half of New Orleans' season before being traded in the off-season. James Harden came into camp abhorrently out-of-shape. Steve Francis literally refused to play for the Vancouver Grizzlies after being drafted. Kawhi Leonard sat out a whole season in San Antonio.

Ben Simmons and the Philadelphia 76ers have a contract. If Ben Simmons does not play, he will not be compensated for those games. Simple as that, this is far less unprecedented than you are suggesting.

Butler beating everyone in that scrimmage, yelling at Scott Layden then going on Rachel Nichols was way worse too.

[Krapinsky]

Anthony Davis sat on the bench for the second half of New Orleans' season before being traded in the off-season. James Harden came into camp abhorrently out-of-shape. Steve Francis literally refused to play for the Vancouver Grizzlies after being drafted. Kawhi Leonard sat out a whole season in San Antonio.

Ben Simmons and the Philadelphia 76ers have a contract. If Ben Simmons does not play, he will not be compensated for those games. Simple as that, this is far less unprecedented than you are suggesting.

The difference between those situations of course is there were fairly robust markets for those players, holding off wasn't going to do anything, sitting them would only speed up a rebuild. With Simmons there is limited interest, so holding out doesn't benefit your position to negotiate and him sitting doesn't help a rebuild (not what they want).

Kawhi Leonard literally sat out an entire season pretending to be damaged goods to force a trade to the Lakers (San Antonio called the bluff and let him miss the season). This Ben Simmons situation is nothing in comparison to how ridiculous that was.

Popovic trading him as far away from LA as possible, to play in Canada no less, was **chef’s kiss**

[SO_MONEY]

Anthony Davis sat on the bench for the second half of New Orleans' season before being traded in the off-season. James Harden came into camp abhorrently out-of-shape. Steve Francis literally refused to play for the Vancouver Grizzlies after being drafted. Kawhi Leonard sat out a whole season in San Antonio.

Ben Simmons and the Philadelphia 76ers have a contract. If Ben Simmons does not play, he will not be compensated for those games. Simple as that, this is far less unprecedented than you are suggesting.

The difference between those situations of course is there were fairly robust markets for those players, holding off wasn't going to do anything, sitting them would only speed up a rebuild. With Simmons there is limited interest, so holding out doesn't benefit your position to negotiate and him sitting doesn't help a rebuild (not what they want).

Kawhi Leonard literally sat out an entire season pretending to be damaged goods to force a trade to the Lakers (San Antonio called the bluff and let him miss the season). This Ben Simmons situation is nothing in comparison to how ridiculous that was.

I didn't say it was.

I just pointed out there was a difference in player demand and team situation with regards to Simmons. Like it or not few teams are interested in Simmons and Philly doesn't want to tank. Philadelphia holding him serves no beneficial purpose. Whereas the other situations were net-neutral on trade value and a reduced win total rewarded a higher pick.

[Slim Tubby]

I'll take a swing at a Simmons deal using the premise that a 3rd team with a "win now" player needs to be part of any trade:

MIN in: Simmons ($33M)
MIN out: Prince ($13M), Beverly ($13M), McDaniels ($2M), 2022 FRP (Top 8) & 2024 FRP (Top 8)

PHI in: Grant ($20M), Beverly ($13M) and 2024 FRP (MIN)
PHI out: Simmons ($33M)

DET in: McDaniels ($2M), Prince ($13M), Bolmaro ($2M) & 2022 FRP (MIN)
DET out: Grant ($20M)

*** MIN gets Simmons while hanging on to KAT, Ant & Russell but at the cost of McDaniels and Two (2) FRP's

*** PHI gets a very nice "win now" piece in Grant along with PG help (Beverly) & future FRP

*** DET - The rebuild gets a huge boost with McDaniels, Bolmaro & 2022 FRP to add to what appears very good young nucleus in Cunningham, Bey, Stewart & Hayes

Too rich for my blood.

It might be…that’s the craziness with this whole drama.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Slim Tubby]

I'll take a swing at a Simmons deal using the premise that a 3rd team with a "win now" player needs to be part of any trade:

MIN in: Simmons ($33M)
MIN out: Prince ($13M), Beverly ($13M), McDaniels ($2M), 2022 FRP (Top 8) & 2024 FRP (Top 8)

PHI in: Grant ($20M), Beverly ($13M) and 2024 FRP (MIN)
PHI out: Simmons ($33M)

DET in: McDaniels ($2M), Prince ($13M), Bolmaro ($2M) & 2022 FRP (MIN)
DET out: Grant ($20M)

*** MIN gets Simmons while hanging on to KAT, Ant & Russell but at the cost of McDaniels and Two (2) FRP's

*** PHI gets a very nice "win now" piece in Grant along with PG help (Beverly) & future FRP

*** DET - The rebuild gets a huge boost with McDaniels, Bolmaro & 2022 FRP to add to what appears very good young nucleus in Cunningham, Bey, Stewart & Hayes

You're sending out 4 FRPs in this deal and two of them that look very promising in McDaniel and Bolmaro. Too rich for my blood.

Maybe remove the 2024 FRP to Philly? My thought process was the protections were enough to balance the sacrifice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SO_MONEY]

I'll take a swing at a Simmons deal using the premise that a 3rd team with a "win now" player needs to be part of any trade:

MIN in: Simmons ($33M)
MIN out: Prince ($13M), Beverly ($13M), McDaniels ($2M), 2022 FRP (Top 8) & 2024 FRP (Top 8)

PHI in: Grant ($20M), Beverly ($13M) and 2024 FRP (MIN)
PHI out: Simmons ($33M)

DET in: McDaniels ($2M), Prince ($13M), Bolmaro ($2M) & 2022 FRP (MIN)
DET out: Grant ($20M)

*** MIN gets Simmons while hanging on to KAT, Ant & Russell but at the cost of McDaniels and Two (2) FRP's

*** PHI gets a very nice "win now" piece in Grant along with PG help (Beverly) & future FRP

*** DET - The rebuild gets a huge boost with McDaniels, Bolmaro & 2022 FRP to add to what appears very good young nucleus in Cunningham, Bey, Stewart & Hayes

You're sending out 4 FRPs in this deal and two of them that look very promising in McDaniel and Bolmaro. Too rich for my blood.

Maybe remove the 2024 FRP to Philly? My thought process was the protections were enough to balance the sacrifice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would say our interest in Simmons is directly proportional to the real ability to set a starting lineup of DLo, ANT, McDaniels, Simmons and KAT.

I think Beasley, Naz, Beverly/Prince and a 1st is a competitive offer. Maybe we add a second pick, maybe some 2nds? I would need to see the market have a higher offer to reassess this package foundation. But I probably would pass and target something else if there were something clearly higher.