Trade Talk (Part Seven)

Slim Tubby · Post #481 » by **Slim Tubby** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:08 pm

Serious question for the Board in general...if you could add John Collins OR Ben Simmons to our roster while keeping KAT, Ant and Russell, which player would be the better overall fit?

jpatrick · Post #482 » by **jpatrick** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:21 pm

Slim Tubby wrote:Serious question for the Board in general...if you could add John Collins OR Ben Simmons to our roster while keeping KAT, Ant and Russell, which player would be the better overall fit?

This is an interesting question. Collins took a leap in these playoffs. Instead of a pure play finisher (scorer) that was a poor defender and didn’t do a lot else to help his team, he allowed his scoring to dip and did a lot more dirty work kind of things.

That said, for this team, I take Simmons. He can’t/won’t shoot. But his defense and passing are elite. He’s a younger Draymond (as long as he keeps his head on straight). A Draymond type on a team with shooting, especially an elite shooting big, will have a much bigger effect on winning than just another scorer. We are already an elite scoring team, getting the runner up DPOY, who is also an elite passer will do more for us overall.

I can’t see Atlanta letting Collins go after their playoff run. I’d move guys like Gallo before I’d do that.

Howard Cosell · Post #483 » by **Howard Cosell** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:59 pm

Slim Tubby wrote:Serious question for the Board in general...if you could add John Collins OR Ben Simmons to our roster while keeping KAT, Ant and Russell, which player would be the better overall fit?

Collins. But Collins will remain in Atlanta.

IceManBK1 · Post #484 » by **IceManBK1** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:56 pm

Honestly I prefer Turner. Wolves need interior d and rim protection and reb in general. They have McDaniels to guard the perimeter. We don't have to give up so much assets. Maybe just Rubio and 1st.

Post #485 » by **Klomp** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:32 pm

Baseline81 wrote:Seemed to go unnoticed with the Simmons news yesterday.

The Athletic on John Collins:
Across the league, many believe Hawks forward/center John Collins increased his value as a maximum contract-caliber player during Atlanta’s run to the Eastern Conference finals. In 18 postseason games, Collins averaged 13.9 points, 8.7 rebounds and 35.7 percent 3-point shooting.

Dallas, Miami, San Antonio and Minnesota are among the teams expected to show interest in Collins, believing he could be attainable as a restricted free agent, sources said. Hawks owner Tony Ressler said after the season that he hoped the team reached a “fair agreement” with Collins. Will the sides find that threshold?

If Atlanta is worried about its cap, maybe a deal with the Wolves can be made. There were talks around the trade deadline.

"Expected to go after" basically means they were interested at the deadline so are probably still interested. No actual reporting.

karch34 · Post #486 » by **karch34** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:34 pm

Slim Tubby wrote:Serious question for the Board in general...if you could add John Collins OR Ben Simmons to our roster while keeping KAT, Ant and Russell, which player would be the better overall fit?

Simmons. Top 20 player, elite defender, and his teams have never missed playoffs.

MN7725 · Post #487 » by **MN7725** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:39 pm

karch34 wrote:
Slim Tubby wrote:Serious question for the Board in general...if you could add John Collins OR Ben Simmons to our roster while keeping KAT, Ant and Russell, which player would be the better overall fit?

Simmons. Top 20 player, elite defender, and his teams have never missed playoffs.

I think I remember seeing that Philly is +.500% without Embiid since Simmons has been there, most teams crater when they lose an All-NBA player (Wolves did without Butler their playoff year)

the mental issues with Simmons are worrisome, but the only reason he is available is because of that risk

Norseman79 · Post #488 » by **Norseman79** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:53 pm

So, they want an all star quality guard....given the assets we have to offer, who could we rope into a 3 team trade? Leave Lowry out....

Slim Tubby · Post #489 » by **Slim Tubby** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:29 pm

Norseman79 wrote:So, they want an all star quality guard....given the assets we have to offer, who could we rope into a 3 team trade? Leave Lowry out....

Is there a team out there with a quality Guard that needs a total re-build and would benefit from us sending them 2-3 moderately protected future FRP's?

gandlogo · Post #490 » by **gandlogo** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:21 pm

Slim Tubby wrote:Serious question for the Board in general...if you could add John Collins OR Ben Simmons to our roster while keeping KAT, Ant and Russell, which player would be the better overall fit?

Easy pass on the flaming dumpster of liquefied manure that is Simmons. In a league where shooting is king, acquiring a super-maxed fourth (or fifth) option would be a fitting death knell to a cursed franchise. Collins is more interesting, but not at his likely price.

Post #491 » by **Klomp** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:49 pm

gandlogo wrote:
Slim Tubby wrote:Serious question for the Board in general...if you could add John Collins OR Ben Simmons to our roster while keeping KAT, Ant and Russell, which player would be the better overall fit?

Easy pass on the flaming dumpster of liquefied manure that is Simmons. In a league where shooting is king, acquiring a super-maxed fourth (or fifth) option would be a fitting death knell to a cursed franchise. Collins is more interesting, but not at his likely price.

Simmons is not super-maxed.

IceManBK1 · Post #492 » by **IceManBK1** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:07 pm

Read on Twitter

?s=20

looks like we have competition for Simmons. 76ers want Foxx though...and kings are reluctant to give him up.

moonpie · Post #493 » by **moonpie** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:19 pm

I believe there was some interest from Golden State's end for a Siakam deal. How about expanding that into a 4 team deal? The biggest question mark for me here is the pick allocation.

Spoiler:

PHI - Lowry and Boucher rounds out their lineup nicely. They get to keep their 1st rounder this year for additional cheap depth.

GSW - Cash in their draft assets and get Siakam to go along with Steph/Klay/Draymond. Naz Reid is a perfect fit for these guys IMO, Layman should fit in as well as an athletic slasher that can hit the 3 ball. Take a shot at a reclamation project in Culver.

MIN - Get Simmons without giving up Malik or Jaden. Only give up 1 future 1st in this deal. Losing Naz hurts but his Hinkie special deal is up soon and he's in line for a big pay raise. We get the expiring veteran bruiser Baynes who can stretch the floor some and is that big-bodied interior paint presence we've been lacking.

TOR - Blow it up essentially. Get out of Siakam's contract, get some assets for Lowry who could sign elsewhere for nothing in return. Boucher is a good player, but also expiring and a bit on the older side as well. Wiggins doesn't have a great contract either but it's a year less than Siakam and gets a fresh start as a Canadian back in Canada. Ricky should be a good stopgap veteran mentor. Wiseman still is very raw and has potential. They now have 3 lottery picks in this draft to build from and some future 1sts as well.

shrink · Post #494 » by **shrink** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:38 pm

Klomp wrote:
gandlogo wrote:
Slim Tubby wrote:Serious question for the Board in general...if you could add John Collins OR Ben Simmons to our roster while keeping KAT, Ant and Russell, which player would be the better overall fit?

Easy pass on the flaming dumpster of liquefied manure that is Simmons. In a league where shooting is king, acquiring a super-maxed fourth (or fifth) option would be a fitting death knell to a cursed franchise. Collins is more interesting, but not at his likely price.

Simmons is not super-maxed.

People use the term “super-maxed” differently, but when he made All NBA third team last year, his max extension at 25% of the cap increased to 28% of the cap.

His deal is higher than a “max” deal for a player with his experience. Like, he gets more money than Towns’ max deal. Super.

jpatrick · Post #495 » by **jpatrick** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:26 pm

IceManBK1 wrote:

Read on Twitter
?s=20

looks like we have competition for Simmons. 76ers want Foxx though...and kings are reluctant to give him up.

I wouldn’t be shocked if this got done quickly. Assuming the trade includes the #9 pick, it has to be done before the draft. And I’d think Philly might want a chance to flip that pick for a win-now piece.

I don’t think we can match the Kings package or I should say we won’t. Beasley/Rubio = Hield/Bagley value wise. But the Kings picks are going to be better than ours simply because they can include the #9 this year and we can only include future picks.

Neeva · Post #496 » by **Neeva** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:30 pm

The Sixers are deluded there is no way they would be actively trying to trade a 25 year old all star/all defensive team guy if he didn’t have major warts and a possibility that he has already plateaued and is just an extremely overpaid defensive specialist going forward. GM’s should be offering them peanuts.

Post #497 » by **Klomp** » Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:09 am

Neeva wrote:The Sixers are deluded there is no way they would be actively trying to trade a 25 year old all star/all defensive team guy if he didn’t have major warts and a possibility that he has already plateaued and is just an extremely overpaid defensive specialist going forward. GM’s should be offering them peanuts.

Were you saying the same thing about Jimmy Butler?

shrink · Post #498 » by **shrink** » Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:28 am

I listened to a National podcast this morning that seemed surprised that the Sixers were expecting an All Star caliber player for Simmons. They said right now that Simmons was the least value of all All Stars, and they may have to add value to get an All Star caliber player back. The fact that he is already paid big bucks, and the damage he does to an offense will greatly limit offers.

King Malta · Post #499 » by **King Malta** » Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:56 am

shrink wrote:I listened to a National podcast this morning that seemed surprised that the Sixers were expecting an All Star caliber player for Simmons. They said right now that Simmons was the least value of all All Stars, and they may have to add value to get an All Star caliber player back. The fact that he is already paid big bucks, and the damage he does to an offense will greatly limit offers.

They're not going to open negotiations at "A starting level point guard, a role playing shooter and a couple of protected firsts".

The public messaging they're leaking out will be that they want a haul, and that's where they'll start in negotiations. It's not what they'll bring back unless there's some kind of intense bidding war.

Nick K · Post #500 » by **Nick K** » Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:21 am

jpatrick wrote:
Slim Tubby wrote:Serious question for the Board in general...if you could add John Collins OR Ben Simmons to our roster while keeping KAT, Ant and Russell, which player would be the better overall fit?

This is an interesting question. Collins took a leap in these playoffs. Instead of a pure play finisher (scorer) that was a poor defender and didn’t do a lot else to help his team, he allowed his scoring to dip and did a lot more dirty work kind of things.

That said, for this team, I take Simmons. He can’t/won’t shoot. But his defense and passing are elite. He’s a younger Draymond (as long as he keeps his head on straight). A Draymond type on a team with shooting, especially an elite shooting big, will have a much bigger effect on winning than just another scorer. We are already an elite scoring team, getting the runner up DPOY, who is also an elite passer will do more for us overall.

I can’t see Atlanta letting Collins go after their playoff run. I’d move guys like Gallo before I’d do that.

Yep. No way they let Collins go.