2024 Free Agency

[KGdaBom]

We don’t know what percentage of PJ’s money is guaranteed. Might still be a change coming. As for Garza, we are at impasse territory. I think he has an NBA level offensive game, and a bad for the G defensive game. You get one bad defender per lineup and even that taxes the defense to the extreme. For Garza to take up that one spot, he better be Malik Beasley from deep or Karl off the dribble, or a monster at the rim. Luka doesn’t have that one top shelf skill and he lacks size for his position which hurts rebounding. There are better two ways than Luka Garza and certainly better minimum guys.

Luka doesn't have a good offensive game. He has a GREAT offensive game. He scored 30 or more PPG in the G with regularity. I will never agree with your hatred of Luka.

Why is it hatred if I think he cannot play at the NBA level? I even said he has an NBA offense. As for scoring 30 in the G, that is what is expected of someone who wants to play in the NBA. Guys who put up bad numbers in the G don’t get anywhere in the NBA. Luka was too good for G but not good enough for the NBA. I have no objection to him as a person or grudge against him professionally, I just don’t want him on this team.

You hate him. Just admit. Not as a person, but you believe he is a POS as a player. And 30 was a bad game for Luka if he was getting minutes. He scores from all over the court.

[winforlose]

Luka doesn't have a good offensive game. He has a GREAT offensive game. He scored 30 or more PPG in the G with regularity. I will never agree with your hatred of Luka.

Why is it hatred if I think he cannot play at the NBA level? I even said he has an NBA offense. As for scoring 30 in the G, that is what is expected of someone who wants to play in the NBA. Guys who put up bad numbers in the G don’t get anywhere in the NBA. Luka was too good for G but not good enough for the NBA. I have no objection to him as a person or grudge against him professionally, I just don’t want him on this team.

You hate him. Just admit. Not as a person, but you believe he is a POS as a player. And 30 was a bad game for Luka if he was getting minutes. He scores from all over the court.

I think someone with his offensive profile should have better options than a 2 year minimum deal after being a two way for 3 years. I think the way Finch used him speaks to the weaknesses in his game. I think he is a bad fit for our roster needs as we need defensively capable big men to help balance the roster in case Rudy or Karl are out for a while. None of this is to suggest that I hate Garza. I don’t hate IHart and I think he is a bad fit on OKC.

End of the day, We have 14 roster spots and each is a valuable commodity. Based on that, I believe we should not have given one to Luka.

[Nick K]

I'll grant you that Dozier is a bit of a head scratcher, but I'll give Connelly the benefit of the doubt on that one. Garza is a good 12th man IMO. Zero problems with signing him.

We don’t know what percentage of PJ’s money is guaranteed. Might still be a change coming. As for Garza, we are at impasse territory. I think he has an NBA level offensive game, and a bad for the G defensive game. You get one bad defender per lineup and even that taxes the defense to the extreme. For Garza to take up that one spot, he better be Malik Beasley from deep or Karl off the dribble, or a monster at the rim. Luka doesn’t have that one top shelf skill and he lacks size for his position which hurts rebounding. There are better two ways than Luka Garza and certainly better minimum guys.

Luka doesn't have a good offensive game. He has a GREAT offensive game. He scored 30 or more PPG in the G with regularity. I will never agree with your hatred of Luka.

I'm with you on this one KGdaBom. Garza isn't as bad defensively as some say because he's a very good rebounder and on both ends. He has a superb offensive game too. You just don't want him defending a forward on the perimeter. The coaches have to scheme for that when he's in there. I hope he gets more of a shot.

Were looking like a MUCH better team this year than last. I'm psyched!

[Klomp]

End of the day, We have 14 roster spots and each is a valuable commodity. Based on that, I believe we should not have given one to Luka.

I definitely understand why you hold this opinion. However, the important thing is that the end-of-bench guys buy into whatever goals the team has set rather than chasing individual numbers.

Rosters are not built based on worst-case scenarios. Rather, I'd argue they are built on best-case scenarios. Chemistry and team culture are very much things that matter in this league. I think the reason some players flame out so quickly is that they never bought into the idea that they are no longer one of the best players on the team. Jeff Teague only lasted two years as an end-of-bench guy. Why? If you watch his podcast, you can still tell the pride and arrogance he has. I think he still has a belief that he's better than a lot of NBA players. But teams aren't willing to give him a chance, probably because of his resistance to a team-first mindset. DeMarcus Cousins is another guy who only lasted two years as a role player, and he spent offseasons since begging GMs to give him a call.

Jeff Teague might be better on the court today than PJ Dozier. But is he a better "14th man" than Dozier? Is Cousins a better "13th man" than Garza? I'd argue not even close.

[winforlose]

End of the day, We have 14 roster spots and each is a valuable commodity. Based on that, I believe we should not have given one to Luka.

I definitely understand why you hold this opinion. However, the important thing is that the end-of-bench guys buy into whatever goals the team has set rather than chasing individual numbers.

Rosters are not built based on worst-case scenarios. Rather, I'd argue they are built on best-case scenarios. Chemistry and team culture are very much things that matter in this league. I think the reason some players flame out so quickly is that they never bought into the idea that they are no longer one of the best players on the team. Jeff Teague only lasted two years as an end-of-bench guy. Why? If you watch his podcast, you can still tell the pride and arrogance he has. I think he still has a belief that he's better than a lot of NBA players. But teams aren't willing to give him a chance, probably because of his resistance to a team-first mindset. DeMarcus Cousins is another guy who only lasted two years as a role player, and he spent offseasons since begging GMs to give him a call.

Jeff Teague might be better on the court today than PJ Dozier. But is he a better "14th man" than Dozier? Is Cousins a better "13th man" than Garza? I'd argue not even close.

There is a lot of truth in this. Your point is especially valid when you consider the guy assembling the roster is a huge character guy. He talks about it at least half the time he talks about players if not more. He talked about on draft night. So yes, bringing guys with high character who will cheer on their teammates, stay ready, and create a positive environment is important. But, as I stated previously, spots 8-11 are very much question marks with 2 rookies and two non rotation developmental second round picks filling them. That makes spots 12-14 different this year than in a normal year. Especially with such a tight window before we must dump salary and reevaluate the roster. This is a tough year to sacrifice multiple potentially significant roster spots in the name of culture. Especially when the culture here is known to be excellent and guys who rock the boat are likely to be thrown out of the boat by everyone else.

[Klomp]

But, as I stated previously, spots 8-11 are very much question marks with 2 rookies and two non rotation developmental second round picks filling them. That makes spots 12-14 different this year than in a normal year. Especially with such a tight window before we must dump salary and reevaluate the roster. This is a tough year to sacrifice multiple potentially significant roster spots in the name of culture. Especially when the culture here is known to be excellent and guys who rock the boat are likely to be thrown out of the boat by everyone else.

Your point is well-taken.

However, I think there is a combination of factors that separate your thoughts from what Connelly and staff are putting together in the building process.

1. You see Garza, Dozier and Ingles as sacrificing roster spots, but I think they see them as known commodities. Dozier spent three years with Connelly in Denver, which overlapped with Finch's time there. They know what he brings to the table. Garza has worked his butt off in his time here. They see that every day in practice. No he might not be the perfect fit schematically, but he's about as sure-thing of a fit in other ways because of that familiarity level. Ingles is a vet. While Connelly and Finch can't vouch for him, Demps, Gobert, Conley and Alexander-Walker all can.

2. You come into this with a skepticism on the young guys on the sole fact that they are young. Having so much youth is a by-product of the cap situation we are in. We saw that in Denver last year too, on an even more heightened level. However, I think Connelly has been building towards this moment because the guys like Miller and Minott have had time to integrate into our system and are still cheap to where the production they will hopefully give will be a big boon because of our cap.

[minimus]

Conley (right soleous strain), Morris (finger), NAW (shoulder) and Edwards (landed hard after Jokic fouled him) all played DAL series through injuries. So basically all our ballhandlers except Kyle Anderson. I see winforlose's concern, it is a legit risk. Hopefully TC and Finch can mitigate this risk.

[shrink]

I suspect that the reason our free agents weren’t too exciting, (besides only offering vet min deals), is that Tim Connelly believes in continuity. Last year’s DEN team claimed it was the main reason they won a championship.

Last year, Connelly locked up our five starters and two bench players (Naz and NAW). Continuity. He knew we’d lose our #8 guy, so he brought in Ingles, for his continuity with Conley and Gobert. Garza was already on the team, and supports them off the bench.

For the record, there will be minutes available this year that will represent change. Anderson is gone. Monte Morris and JMac too. I expect Finch to play Mike less. It’s unlikely we will be as healthy as we were last year. We have a runway for young players to get some minutes without disturbing what worked so well for us last year. But I think we are past the days we’d make a signing like PatBev (tho I love him) or other big name that disrupts are hard-earned chemistry. I think that chemistry is going to win us games, and I expect a great start to the season… and hopefully great playoff run as well.

[Klomp]

I suspect that the reason our free agents weren’t too exciting, (besides only offering vet min deals), is that Tim Connelly believes in continuity. Last year’s DEN team claimed it was the main reason they won a championship.

Last year, Connelly locked up our five starters and two bench players (Naz and NAW). Continuity. He knew we’d lose our #8 guy, so he brought in Ingles, for his continuity with Conley and Gobert. Garza was already on the team, and supports them off the bench.

For the record, there will be minutes available this year that will represent change. Anderson is gone. Monte Morris and JMac too. I expect Finch to play Mike less. It’s unlikely we will be as healthy as we were last year. We have a runway for young players to get some minutes without disturbing what worked so well for us last year. But I think we are past the days we’d make a signing like PatBev (tho I love him) or other big name that disrupts are hard-earned chemistry. I think that chemistry is going to win us games, and I expect a great start to the season… and hopefully great playoff run as well.

Heck, even the 2020-21 Jazz could probably speak to it as well. Gobert, Mitchell, Ingles and O'Neale all dated back to Mitchell's rookie year in 2017-18. They switched point guards from Rubio to Conley and turned Hood eventually into Clarkson off the bench, but it was largely the same core.

[Nick K]

But, as I stated previously, spots 8-11 are very much question marks with 2 rookies and two non rotation developmental second round picks filling them. That makes spots 12-14 different this year than in a normal year. Especially with such a tight window before we must dump salary and reevaluate the roster. This is a tough year to sacrifice multiple potentially significant roster spots in the name of culture. Especially when the culture here is known to be excellent and guys who rock the boat are likely to be thrown out of the boat by everyone else.

Your point is well-taken.

However, I think there is a combination of factors that separate your thoughts from what Connelly and staff are putting together in the building process.

1. You see Garza, Dozier and Ingles as sacrificing roster spots, but I think they see them as known commodities. Dozier spent three years with Connelly in Denver, which overlapped with Finch's time there. They know what he brings to the table. Garza has worked his butt off in his time here. They see that every day in practice. No he might not be the perfect fit schematically, but he's about as sure-thing of a fit in other ways because of that familiarity level. Ingles is a vet. While Connelly and Finch can't vouch for him, Demps, Gobert, Conley and Alexander-Walker all can.

2. You come into this with a skepticism on the young guys on the sole fact that they are young. Having so much youth is a by-product of the cap situation we are in. We saw that in Denver last year too, on an even more heightened level. However, I think Connelly has been building towards this moment because the guys like Miller and Minott have had time to integrate into our system and are still cheap to where the production they will hopefully give will be a big boon because of our cap.

Right on Klomp!

Also, you need good guys to practice against on a daily basis. They know what they have. I love what I'm seeing.

I read somewhere that at age 15 PJ Dozier was the highest rated player for his age.

[winforlose]

At the end of the day I am an arm chair QB like all of you. I don’t have to like or agree with TC’s decisions, I have to live with them. I think many of you like myself have been in this situation with prior GMs and POBOs and this is no different. If it all works out then it all works out. If it doesn’t, then we need to take a closer look at TC.

I know some of you will give me a list of his best moves, but I have always felt he overpaid for Gobert. If Minott fails he will have completely dropped the ball on the 22 draft. Kyle was a good signing at the time but a bad retention past the trade deadline of year 2. Shake failed, TBJ failed, we don’t know what we have in the 23 or 24 draft groups, but we know that TC gave away the only 2 draft assets we had left to trade to get RD. If RD succeeds he is a legend, if he flops then we are *******. For those eager to point to the second Jazz trade, Finch is the one who wanted NAW and TC passed on Dlo for Conley in the initial Gobert trade. Ultimately TC will be judged on the strength of the young players, and how these new signings do if they play. But giving TC huge credit for where we are overlooks so much and also credits him for things like drafting Ant and Jaden, developing Karl into a 4, hiring Finch, and so much more that he simply didn’t do.

[Slim Tubby]

Please no. And I am saying this as big Rubio fan.

Yep. We all love Ricky but it's all over for him.

How about bringing Ricky in as a coach to work with Dilly?

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM mobile app

[Klomp]

At the end of the day I am an arm chair QB like all of you. I don’t have to like or agree with TC’s decisions, I have to live with them. I think many of you like myself have been in this situation with prior GMs and POBOs and this is no different. If it all works out then it all works out. If it doesn’t, then we need to take a closer look at TC.

I know some of you will give me a list of his best moves, but I have always felt he overpaid for Gobert. If Minott fails he will have completely dropped the ball on the 22 draft. Kyle was a good signing at the time but a bad retention past the trade deadline of year 2. Shake failed, TBJ failed, we don’t know what we have in the 23 or 24 draft groups, but we know that TC gave away the only 2 draft assets we had left to trade to get RD. If RD succeeds he is a legend, if he flops then we are *******. For those eager to point to the second Jazz trade, Finch is the one who wanted NAW and TC passed on Dlo for Conley in the initial Gobert trade. Ultimately TC will be judged on the strength of the young players, and how these new signings do if they play. But giving TC huge credit for where we are overlooks so much and also credits him for things like drafting Ant and Jaden, developing Karl into a 4, hiring Finch, and so much more that he simply didn’t do.

These all make sense if looking at the last two-plus years through a quite pessimistic lens. However, he has turned around the team culture and turned around the on-court product in just two short years. Sometimes the best leaders aren't ones who make these big bombastic moves and let the world know about it, but rather the ones who let the people below them shine and do what they do best. Everyone used to rave about the Clippers management because of the big moves they made. How did that turn out for them?

[winforlose]

At the end of the day I am an arm chair QB like all of you. I don’t have to like or agree with TC’s decisions, I have to live with them. I think many of you like myself have been in this situation with prior GMs and POBOs and this is no different. If it all works out then it all works out. If it doesn’t, then we need to take a closer look at TC.

I know some of you will give me a list of his best moves, but I have always felt he overpaid for Gobert. If Minott fails he will have completely dropped the ball on the 22 draft. Kyle was a good signing at the time but a bad retention past the trade deadline of year 2. Shake failed, TBJ failed, we don’t know what we have in the 23 or 24 draft groups, but we know that TC gave away the only 2 draft assets we had left to trade to get RD. If RD succeeds he is a legend, if he flops then we are *******. For those eager to point to the second Jazz trade, Finch is the one who wanted NAW and TC passed on Dlo for Conley in the initial Gobert trade. Ultimately TC will be judged on the strength of the young players, and how these new signings do if they play. But giving TC huge credit for where we are overlooks so much and also credits him for things like drafting Ant and Jaden, developing Karl into a 4, hiring Finch, and so much more that he simply didn’t do.

These all make sense if looking at the last two-plus years through a quite pessimistic lens. However, he has turned around the team culture and turned around the on-court product in just two short years. Sometimes the best leaders aren't ones who make these big bombastic moves and let the world know about it, but rather the ones who let the people below them shine and do what they do best. Everyone used to rave about the Clippers management because of the big moves they made. How did that turn out for them?

I agree with you that TC had something to do with it. But how much of the turnaround is Finch, Ant, KAT, and Rudy. Rudy finished what Beverly started with the defensive culture. Finch got on guys that there are no games off and that true winners always stay ready (especially bench guys waiting for an opportunity.) Karl was the people pleaser who did whatever it took and did it with a smile (hard not to like that guy.) Ant is the guy whose charisma and talent make them believe that it isn’t a question of if they get the ring, but when. Oh and Mike is like the zen master of the NBA. All these year never a tech, multiple teammate of the year awards, flies during the playoffs to honor a former teammate, I could go on and on about how much Mike is a culture setter.

I don’t want to sound like I hate TC, because I don’t. I give him a ton of credit for what he did in Denver, building from the ground up. But every time I try to buy into him, he keeps making decisions I don’t agree with or worse (Dozier signing,) I outright hate. Again, I hope to god we win a ring. I hope to god this is all hypothetical and you guys come back and toss it in my face. I want Minnesota sports glory more than I probably should. But damn if I don’t worry history is repeating itself.

[KGdaBom]

At the end of the day I am an arm chair QB like all of you. I don’t have to like or agree with TC’s decisions, I have to live with them. I think many of you like myself have been in this situation with prior GMs and POBOs and this is no different. If it all works out then it all works out. If it doesn’t, then we need to take a closer look at TC.

I know some of you will give me a list of his best moves, but I have always felt he overpaid for Gobert. If Minott fails he will have completely dropped the ball on the 22 draft. Kyle was a good signing at the time but a bad retention past the trade deadline of year 2. Shake failed, TBJ failed, we don’t know what we have in the 23 or 24 draft groups, but we know that TC gave away the only 2 draft assets we had left to trade to get RD. If RD succeeds he is a legend, if he flops then we are *******. For those eager to point to the second Jazz trade, Finch is the one who wanted NAW and TC passed on Dlo for Conley in the initial Gobert trade. Ultimately TC will be judged on the strength of the young players, and how these new signings do if they play. But giving TC huge credit for where we are overlooks so much and also credits him for things like drafting Ant and Jaden, developing Karl into a 4, hiring Finch, and so much more that he simply didn’t do.

These all make sense if looking at the last two-plus years through a quite pessimistic lens. However, he has turned around the team culture and turned around the on-court product in just two short years. Sometimes the best leaders aren't ones who make these big bombastic moves and let the world know about it, but rather the ones who let the people below them shine and do what they do best. Everyone used to rave about the Clippers management because of the big moves they made. How did that turn out for them?

I agree with you that TC had something to do with it. But how much of the turnaround is Finch, Ant, KAT, and Rudy. Rudy finished what Beverly started with the defensive culture. Finch got on guys that there are no games off and that true winners always stay ready (especially bench guys waiting for an opportunity.) Karl was the people pleaser who did whatever it took and did it with a smile (hard not to like that guy.) Ant is the guy whose charisma and talent make them believe that it isn’t a question of if they get the ring, but when. Oh and Mike is like the zen master of the NBA. All these year never a tech, multiple teammate of the year awards, flies during the playoffs to honor a former teammate, I could go on and on about how much Mike is a culture setter.

I don’t want to sound like I hate TC, because I don’t. I give him a ton of credit for what he did in Denver, building from the ground up. But every time I try to buy into him, he keeps making decisions I don’t agree with or worse (Dozier signing,) I outright hate. Again, I hope to god we win a ring. I hope to god this is all hypothetical and you guys come back and toss it in my face. I want Minnesota sports glory more than I probably should. But damn if I don’t worry history is repeating itself.

You worry too much. Anything Rudy and Mike do TC should get credit for as the man who brought them here. You believe he paid too much for Rudy, but since that trade lesser players are getting just as big a haul and sometimes bigger. TC is certainly not flawless, but when he makes a trade or draft pick I wouldn't I'm going to assume that he's better at those things than I am so his move is likely to be better than what I would have done. I would have signed Garza and Ingles so of course those moves are great . I wouldn't have made the Dozier move, but he has some excellent physical traits and could easily prove to be a good move.

[minimus]

Please no. And I am saying this as big Rubio fan.

Yep. We all love Ricky but it's all over for him.

How about bringing Ricky in as a coach to work with Dilly?

I will be more than happy

[jpatrick]

I looked for the former Wolf thread. Didn’t look very hard though. But I guess this can go here too.

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=XQD5PNDwat0WI1cFRdOyRQ

[minimus]

I looked for the former Wolf thread. Didn’t look very hard though. But I guess this can go here too.

Read on Twitter

Had highest volume of corner threes

Read on Twitter

[BlacJacMac]

At the end of the day I am an arm chair QB like all of you. I don’t have to like or agree with TC’s decisions, I have to live with them. I think many of you like myself have been in this situation with prior GMs and POBOs and this is no different. If it all works out then it all works out. If it doesn’t, then we need to take a closer look at TC.

I know some of you will give me a list of his best moves, but I have always felt he overpaid for Gobert. If Minott fails he will have completely dropped the ball on the 22 draft. Kyle was a good signing at the time but a bad retention past the trade deadline of year 2. Shake failed, TBJ failed, we don’t know what we have in the 23 or 24 draft groups, but we know that TC gave away the only 2 draft assets we had left to trade to get RD. If RD succeeds he is a legend, if he flops then we are *******. For those eager to point to the second Jazz trade, Finch is the one who wanted NAW and TC passed on Dlo for Conley in the initial Gobert trade. Ultimately TC will be judged on the strength of the young players, and how these new signings do if they play. But giving TC huge credit for where we are overlooks so much and also credits him for things like drafting Ant and Jaden, developing Karl into a 4, hiring Finch, and so much more that he simply didn’t do.

What's your source for this?

I call BS that that was on the table then. Especially since we were the 3rd team in the eventual trade. The main principals of the deal were D'Lo to the Lakers and the Lakers pick to Utah. And I don't think many people expected that we'd end up with the 2 best assets from that trade.

When that trade was made the Lakers were still shooting for a better player with their last real chip. D'Lo was who they eventually settled on, but they were absolutely trying to land a bigger fish.

Funny thing is it turns out including us in the deal was a huge mistake for LA. They would've been so much better with Conley and NAW instead of D'Lo.

[winforlose]

At the end of the day I am an arm chair QB like all of you. I don’t have to like or agree with TC’s decisions, I have to live with them. I think many of you like myself have been in this situation with prior GMs and POBOs and this is no different. If it all works out then it all works out. If it doesn’t, then we need to take a closer look at TC.

I know some of you will give me a list of his best moves, but I have always felt he overpaid for Gobert. If Minott fails he will have completely dropped the ball on the 22 draft. Kyle was a good signing at the time but a bad retention past the trade deadline of year 2. Shake failed, TBJ failed, we don’t know what we have in the 23 or 24 draft groups, but we know that TC gave away the only 2 draft assets we had left to trade to get RD. If RD succeeds he is a legend, if he flops then we are *******. For those eager to point to the second Jazz trade, Finch is the one who wanted NAW and TC passed on Dlo for Conley in the initial Gobert trade. Ultimately TC will be judged on the strength of the young players, and how these new signings do if they play. But giving TC huge credit for where we are overlooks so much and also credits him for things like drafting Ant and Jaden, developing Karl into a 4, hiring Finch, and so much more that he simply didn’t do.

What's your source for this?

I call BS that that was on the table then. Especially since we were the 3rd team in the eventual trade. The main principals of the deal were D'Lo to the Lakers and the Lakers pick to Utah. And I don't think many people expected that we'd end up with the 2 best assets from that trade.

When that trade was made the Lakers were still shooting for a better player with their last real chip. D'Lo was who they eventually settled on, but they were absolutely trying to land a bigger fish.

Funny thing is it turns out including us in the deal was a huge mistake for LA. They would've been so much better with Conley and NAW instead of D'Lo.

It was on one of the pods. Honestly I thought it was common knowledge? They talked about not wanting to send out Jaden and making the money work without Dlo who Utah offered to take in exchange for Conley. Check Flagrant howls or Dane Moore around the time of the deal. If not there than maybe locked on? I often have sports pods on in the background when I cook or workout, or do stuff that doesn’t require too much focus. When I am not listening to music or streaming something.

P.S, are you sure this is something that you didn’t just forget? I mean the Gobert trade got covered every which way and this was a plot point. Especially with Dlo expiring and the salary slot issues.