The Jaylen Nowell Thread

[winforlose]

99% of posters won’t like this but…

Let’s say DLo is trash, the weakest link, the one holding us back. We need to go out and find an elite PG. how though, we’re cash strapped?
Gobert
McD
Ant
Nowell
(PG)

We let DLo walk or trade at the deadline for someone else’s undesired expiring. We decide McD is better fit next to Gobert. Towns is great but has too many weaknesses to be worth his contract. So we trade towns for either an elite pg and picks or Scoot Henderson and filler.
Or we find a way to wipe out 2 max contracts and go big in free agency.
As much as people here love Towns, he’s actually the key to recouping assets should DLo suck and the Gobert Towns pairing is sub par.

Ant Gobert McD and an elite PG plus decent 3 and D role players is ultimately the way forward should the buddy ball guys fail to produce.
Nowell provides that insurance that we can lose both DLo and KAT and still only to find a PG.

Let’s assume this happens, (I don’t see it, but for the sake of discussion,) are we assuming that KAT doesn’t have high trade value? You say he is the key to recouping assets, but what does that look like? Do you package KAT and Dlo in a 2 for 2 or 3 for 2 with someone else. Do you offer KAT and Dlo for FVV and Siakam with a little extra talent coming our way in the form of a role player upgrade (Rivers for X?) FVV is a clear upgrade to Dlo, and Siakam could play with Rudy. Toronto has Barnes, OG, and GTJ to make a damn good staring 5 with KAT and Dlo. If you don’t like my idea please insert a better one. I mean another way it could go is LAT and Dlo to the Suns, CP3 and Ayton elsewhere, and we get two players from the third team.

I wouldn’t assume we are suddenly a free agent destination. KAT is one of the few all NBA guys who wants to be here long term. Rudy was excited to come play with KAT. Whoever and however we make this trade for, we better be thinking long term.

Honestly, Nowell is great depth period. Like we saw against Miami, he can play beside Ant. PJ Dozier when healthy will likely be a Wolf. Beyond those 3 I don’t see a need for more.

Separate trades.
DLos trade would have to happen at the deadline. If he’s not working with Ant well. And just sucking it up, we offload him to a team trying to dump cap room.


Kats trade would happen predraft. That would be dependent on fit with Rudy and playoff performance (we’re a playoff team regardless of DLos performance and KAT + Rudy fit).

KAT honestly, should work well with Rudy in a more limited role this year. Hopefully more usage for Ant and KAT can be more of a spot up and pick and pop guy. Less iso ball for KAT, he’s horrible in those situations. His TO or Offensive foul rate in iso situations is atrocious. But I see his value as high, because regardless of his failures, some team will think they can unlock what we couldn’t.

Last night you saw the worst of KAT in the first half. You saw a man who couldn’t drive, couldn’t draw a significant defensive presence, and couldn’t shoot at a high clip. Then, in the second half you saw KAT turn the page and become the best player on the floor. 19/6/6 is a damn good performance. 3/6 from distance is a great performance. You need to put KAT’s career in the proper context, the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Ant doesn’t want to be the PG. He made it clear last year, and nothing I have seen thus far makes me think that has changed. Ant will get plenty of time with KAT and without Dlo this season. Nowell or JMAC can help with that. If Dlo disengages Ant then Ant has a lower ceiling than we hoped for. You don’t see the all NBA guys get disengaged or bored because they have talented teammates who also need the ball.

Dlo still got 6 assists last night. He needs to shoot less and pass more. He needs to use Rudy’s screen assist to get to the rim, and he needs to aim for 10 APG. But make no mistake he is still top 20 at PG and is plenty good for 4th best on a title team.

[m2002brian]

Let’s assume this happens, (I don’t see it, but for the sake of discussion,) are we assuming that KAT doesn’t have high trade value? You say he is the key to recouping assets, but what does that look like? Do you package KAT and Dlo in a 2 for 2 or 3 for 2 with someone else. Do you offer KAT and Dlo for FVV and Siakam with a little extra talent coming our way in the form of a role player upgrade (Rivers for X?) FVV is a clear upgrade to Dlo, and Siakam could play with Rudy. Toronto has Barnes, OG, and GTJ to make a damn good staring 5 with KAT and Dlo. If you don’t like my idea please insert a better one. I mean another way it could go is LAT and Dlo to the Suns, CP3 and Ayton elsewhere, and we get two players from the third team.

I wouldn’t assume we are suddenly a free agent destination. KAT is one of the few all NBA guys who wants to be here long term. Rudy was excited to come play with KAT. Whoever and however we make this trade for, we better be thinking long term.

Honestly, Nowell is great depth period. Like we saw against Miami, he can play beside Ant. PJ Dozier when healthy will likely be a Wolf. Beyond those 3 I don’t see a need for more.

Separate trades.
DLos trade would have to happen at the deadline. If he’s not working with Ant well. And just sucking it up, we offload him to a team trying to dump cap room.


Kats trade would happen predraft. That would be dependent on fit with Rudy and playoff performance (we’re a playoff team regardless of DLos performance and KAT + Rudy fit).

KAT honestly, should work well with Rudy in a more limited role this year. Hopefully more usage for Ant and KAT can be more of a spot up and pick and pop guy. Less iso ball for KAT, he’s horrible in those situations. His TO or Offensive foul rate in iso situations is atrocious. But I see his value as high, because regardless of his failures, some team will think they can unlock what we couldn’t.

Last night you saw the worst of KAT in the first half. You saw a man who couldn’t drive, couldn’t draw a significant defensive presence, and couldn’t shoot at a high clip. Then, in the second half you saw KAT turn the page and become the best player on the floor. 19/6/6 is a damn good performance. 3/6 from distance is a great performance. You need to put KAT’s career in the proper context, the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Ant doesn’t want to be the PG. He made it clear last year, and nothing I have seen thus far makes me think that has changed. Ant will get plenty of time with KAT and without Dlo this season. Nowell or JMAC can help with that. If Dlo disengages Ant then Ant has a lower ceiling than we hoped for. You don’t see the all NBA guys get disengaged or bored because they have talented teammates who also need the ball.

Dlo still got 6 assists last night. He needs to shoot less and pass more. He needs to use Rudy’s screen assist to get to the rim, and he needs to aim for 10 APG. But make no mistake he is still top 20 at PG and is plenty good for 4th best on a title team.

I hope you’re right and I love the optimism.

But putting career in perspective. KAT is a net negative when used as a high post iso.
So maybe hopefully Finchy can do a better job of putting his players in places to succeed, but also not putting his players in positions they often fail.

[winforlose]

Separate trades.
DLos trade would have to happen at the deadline. If he’s not working with Ant well. And just sucking it up, we offload him to a team trying to dump cap room.


Kats trade would happen predraft. That would be dependent on fit with Rudy and playoff performance (we’re a playoff team regardless of DLos performance and KAT + Rudy fit).

KAT honestly, should work well with Rudy in a more limited role this year. Hopefully more usage for Ant and KAT can be more of a spot up and pick and pop guy. Less iso ball for KAT, he’s horrible in those situations. His TO or Offensive foul rate in iso situations is atrocious. But I see his value as high, because regardless of his failures, some team will think they can unlock what we couldn’t.

Last night you saw the worst of KAT in the first half. You saw a man who couldn’t drive, couldn’t draw a significant defensive presence, and couldn’t shoot at a high clip. Then, in the second half you saw KAT turn the page and become the best player on the floor. 19/6/6 is a damn good performance. 3/6 from distance is a great performance. You need to put KAT’s career in the proper context, the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Ant doesn’t want to be the PG. He made it clear last year, and nothing I have seen thus far makes me think that has changed. Ant will get plenty of time with KAT and without Dlo this season. Nowell or JMAC can help with that. If Dlo disengages Ant then Ant has a lower ceiling than we hoped for. You don’t see the all NBA guys get disengaged or bored because they have talented teammates who also need the ball.

Dlo still got 6 assists last night. He needs to shoot less and pass more. He needs to use Rudy’s screen assist to get to the rim, and he needs to aim for 10 APG. But make no mistake he is still top 20 at PG and is plenty good for 4th best on a title team.

I hope you’re right and I love the optimism.

But putting career in perspective. KAT is a net negative when used as a high post iso.
So maybe hopefully Finchy can do a better job of putting his players in places to succeed, but also not putting his players in positions they often fail.

KAT needs to be shooting 10+ 3s per game. He needs to run 4/5 PNR and PNP with Rudy, and drive and kick to Ant, Nowell, Forbes, and MCD. Dlo is in a contract year and will want to shoot. But he will quickly realize that his PNR will get him paid. He will get a lot of screen assists and easy paint buckets. Finch’s fast paced defense works very well for Dlo as well. What he lacks in instincts and foot speed he makes up for with defensive IQ and quick hands. Dlo must adjust to the new dynamic with Rudy. Thankfully, he has every incentive to do so.

I would like to move this discussion to another thread as it is not so much about Nowell anymore. I think we agree that Nowell adds a little of what Dlo does and a little of what Ant does. His defense is a bit weak, but his offense is truly invaluable. Nowell is looking like a 50/40/80 guy this preseason. 50/40/80 from a 6th man is a winning formula. Especially when you have Forbes behind him. Our depth is insane this year.

[MN7725]

So far Jaylen looks really good scoring wise, though he's not much of a distributor. He's perfect as a scorer off the bench or a starting SG. He's needs the ball in his hands some but he's not a PG or even a backup PG.

that's probably true, but its been shown repeatedly that you need as many players as possible who can get their's in the playoffs

Dallas made it to WCF because they had Luka (obviously massive reason), Dinwoodie, Brunson
everyone would choose to have Mikal Bridges over Brunson and Dinwoodie to be on their team, but they outplayed Bridges at that level, when the defenses got so locked in, need to be able to take on quality defender and break him down one on one

Nowell I would consider the Wolves 2nd most skilled player at getting his after Edwards

I just don't know why they don't lock him up, regardless of concerns of defense

[KGdaBom]

Last night you saw the worst of KAT in the first half. You saw a man who couldn’t drive, couldn’t draw a significant defensive presence, and couldn’t shoot at a high clip. Then, in the second half you saw KAT turn the page and become the best player on the floor. 19/6/6 is a damn good performance. 3/6 from distance is a great performance. You need to put KAT’s career in the proper context, the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Ant doesn’t want to be the PG. He made it clear last year, and nothing I have seen thus far makes me think that has changed. Ant will get plenty of time with KAT and without Dlo this season. Nowell or JMAC can help with that. If Dlo disengages Ant then Ant has a lower ceiling than we hoped for. You don’t see the all NBA guys get disengaged or bored because they have talented teammates who also need the ball.

Dlo still got 6 assists last night. He needs to shoot less and pass more. He needs to use Rudy’s screen assist to get to the rim, and he needs to aim for 10 APG. But make no mistake he is still top 20 at PG and is plenty good for 4th best on a title team.

I hope you’re right and I love the optimism.

But putting career in perspective. KAT is a net negative when used as a high post iso.
So maybe hopefully Finchy can do a better job of putting his players in places to succeed, but also not putting his players in positions they often fail.

KAT needs to be shooting 10+ 3s per game. He needs to run 4/5 PNR and PNP with Rudy, and drive and kick to Ant, Nowell, Forbes, and MCD. Dlo is in a contract year and will want to shoot. But he will quickly realize that his PNR will get him paid. He will get a lot of screen assists and easy paint buckets. Finch’s fast paced defense works very well for Dlo as well. What he lacks in instincts and foot speed he makes up for with defensive IQ and quick hands. Dlo must adjust to the new dynamic with Rudy. Thankfully, he has every incentive to do so.

I would like to move this discussion to another thread as it is not so much about Nowell anymore. I think we agree that Nowell adds a little of what Dlo does and a little of what Ant does. His defense is a bit weak, but his offense is truly invaluable. Nowell is looking like a 50/40/80 guy this preseason. 50/40/80 from a 6th man is a winning formula. Especially when you have Forbes behind him. Our depth is insane this year.

You really want to discuss KAT with this totally biased KAT hater?

[minimus]

I am impressed by Nowell recent performance. He made an awesome pass to Rudy for wide open dunk in game 1. He threw alley oop pass to Rudy in game 2. He is finishing at rim through contact, he is moving off the ball, he is running in fastbreak, he is hitting pull-up threes. He needs to avoid weak fouls in defense, but he is trying. And he has SWAG

[winforlose]

I am impressed by Nowell recent performance. He made an awesome pass to Rudy for wide open dunk in game 1. He threw alley oop pass to Rudy in game 2. He is finishing at rim through contact, he is moving off the ball, he is running in fastbreak, he is hitting pull-up threes. He needs to avoid weak fouls in defense, but he is trying. And he has SWAG

Two or three of those fouls last night were ticky tack. Especially in light of how hard he was being hit. The video of Kessler jumping into him and clobbering him should be added to the rest of the ref lowlights. Moreover, he was hungry enough to fight through screens and stay in front of his man. The real question is whether he eats into JMACs minutes and more firmly establishes his own minutes instead of Forbes. Twice now Forbes minutes have come at the expense of Nowell.

[BlacJacMac]

Minnesota has also engaged in extension discussions with guard Jaylen Nowell, but the fourth-year guard is expected to bypass a new deal and enter unrestricted free agency next offseason, according to sources. Nowell, a dynamic scorer, is averaging 15 points in three games to start this season.

https://theathletic.com/3722980/2022/10/24/russell-westbrook-trade-talks-shams/

This is not promising at all.

I love the 15 PPG, and its impressive he's been getting 14 FGAs in 21 MPG, but I wonder how many minutes he's going to want to feel that he has a big enough role to resign here?

Worried we made a mistake letting him become a UFA...

[Folklore]

This is sad. All the "Family" talk has brought us here. This Team is a foster home for players now. There's a chosen few who will have bright futures then those who are sacrifices. This organization trades away players without having a plan A and b in place. Did they actually think that Naz and JN wouldn't want to get paid? After watching family get traded and hearing Pat talk about getting as much as possible, I'm sure they won't be giving the org another discount. We won't get good value for them in a trade, and if we do, it will be short term value or a pick.

This "team's" future is just a first-round exit, because we have a flawed star and a hot and cold scorer on the team and an aging center who bulked up to get slower. After this season Dlo is going to walk, Naz and JN might be gone, Prince won't resign because we paid Slow-Mo more than him, two rookies who are trash and Garza who may potential but won't get playing time. I just don't see how people think that the Jazz will be worse off. they are in a far better position than we are. We aren't even developing role players anymore.

[winforlose]

Minnesota has also engaged in extension discussions with guard Jaylen Nowell, but the fourth-year guard is expected to bypass a new deal and enter unrestricted free agency next offseason, according to sources. Nowell, a dynamic scorer, is averaging 15 points in three games to start this season.

https://theathletic.com/3722980/2022/10/24/russell-westbrook-trade-talks-shams/

This is not promising at all.

I love the 15 PPG, and its impressive he's been getting 14 FGAs in 21 MPG, but I wonder how many minutes he's going to want to feel that he has a big enough role to resign here?

Worried we made a mistake letting him become a UFA...

I said as much before the season. But making an RFA would have meant paying the tax this year.

[jpatrick]

Almost have to retain him. Only shot creator off the bench and we don’t have flexibility to replace him unless we’re going to get someone similar with the MLE.

[winforlose]

This is sad. All the "Family" talk has brought us here. This Team is a foster home for players now. There's a chosen few who will have bright futures then those who are sacrifices. This organization trades away players without having a plan A and b in place. Did they actually think that Naz and JN wouldn't want to get paid? After watching family get traded and hearing Pat talk about getting as much as possible, I'm sure they won't be giving the org another discount. We won't get good value for them in a trade, and if we do, it will be short term value or a pick.

This "team's" future is just a first-round exit, because we have a flawed star and a hot and cold scorer on the team and an aging center who bulked up to get slower. After this season Dlo is going to walk, Naz and JN might be gone, Prince won't resign because we paid Slow-Mo more than him, two rookies who are trash and Garza who may potential but won't get playing time. I just don't see how people think that the Jazz will be worse off. they are in a far better position than we are. We aren't even developing role players anymore.

Or…

Rudy Gobert continues to be Rudy Gobert for the next 4 years. His presence continues to force opponents to shoot midrange and 3s at a higher clip then they prefer while also cleaning the glass.

Ant continues to progress as a 21 year old often does. He finds a happy medium between passing and scoring while improving his rebounding and defense. In other words the flashes he has shown become more consistent as he becomes the superstar wing.

KAT regains his weight or gets more comfortable at this new weight. Realizes he needs to focus more on shooting 3s and less on driving, while also developing a PNP and PNR game with Rudy returns to form. KAT also learns to play more efficient defense with Rudy and Jaden the same way he did with Pat and V8 last year.

Dlo extends and masters his PNR game with Rudy. Furthermore, he gets a lot of clean looks at the rim with screen assist and slightly reduces his shot attempts as a function of increasing his assists. Still getting his points and showing his value.

MCD continues to develop his offense while wowing us with his defense. He continues to play without fouling and finds his stroke from deep.

Prince already under contract for next year and will probably want to stay and retire as a Wolf. He loves the city, the team, and the role as wise elder statesman. He is also relatively well paid compared to his market. Dane Moore and Britt were saying 8 million is an overpay, but he happily accepted it.

Nowell probably extends with us at around 3/45 or 3/48 with a promise of 30 minutes per game. Those minutes come at backup PG and SG as well as maybe some SF. He is proving his worth now. We have until June to prove we value him. If he just won’t stay no matter what, we extend and trade him. We have his bird rights so he has incentive to play ball.

Naz is the same situation as Nowell except we probably don’t even want to keep him. He is too far down the depth chart of our best and most deep position. Instead he gets traded and we get back either draft capital or a good young player in a different position.

The nature of a deep team is that sometimes you have to bench good players or move on from productive players. V8 was deeply flawed and not truly a starter on a playoff team. His lack of offense made life miserable for KAT and Ant and allowed the best opposing defender to lock down Dlo. All of that changes with Rudy who is averaging 15.7 points on 61.8% shooting after 3 games. He is also averaging 18 rebounds. Talk about having a plan, Rudy is the plan. Beasley was outperformed by Nowell on revenge night, and by the end of the season people will be asking Malik who? Bev was a one year deal for an aging player. He isn’t doing well in LAL and maybe even gets moved again so he can be waived and brought back here on a minimum. Either way, losing him wasn’t devastating. Finally Kessler just wasn’t on KAT’s timeline, and we shouldn’t suffer for 3 to 4 years in mediocrity waiting for Ant’s timeline. We are a deep team who is on the rise. You just need to take a page out of Aaron Rodgers book and RELAX.

Oh, forgot to mention, Minott and Moore haven’t even played a G league game. Kinda quick to give up on them less than a week into their rookie season. What if people had done that to Butler and Jokic? I am not saying our guys are those guys, but that development is a process and they need to develop. Garza is getting the role he wanted (Two way,) and will get minutes in Iowa to develop as well. If he shows promise next year he is likely the 3rd string center.

[BlacJacMac]

Almost have to retain him. Only shot creator off the bench and we don’t have flexibility to replace him unless we’re going to get someone similar with the MLE.

Unless we're willing to significantly overpay him, it may be out of our hands.

[winforlose]

Almost have to retain him. Only shot creator off the bench and we don’t have flexibility to replace him unless we’re going to get someone similar with the MLE.

Unless we're willing to significantly overpay him, it may be out of our hands.

1. Define overpay?

2. Don’t forget bird rights. Sign and trade preserves them. Otherwise they start all over.

3. It is a long time till June.

[Klomp]

Going into unrestricted free agency does not mean he will definitely not agree to a new deal with Minnesota. It's early in negotiations. Neither side is likely showing their best offer yet. There's absolutely no reason to.

[BlacJacMac]

Almost have to retain him. Only shot creator off the bench and we don’t have flexibility to replace him unless we’re going to get someone similar with the MLE.

Unless we're willing to significantly overpay him, it may be out of our hands.

1. Define overpay?

2. Don’t forget bird rights. Sign and trade preserves them. Otherwise they start all over.

3. It is a long time till June.

1. Significantly more than another team offers if he wants to leave.

2. Bird Rights are obviously the only way we could keep him.

3. It is.

My point isn't that he's gone, just that the decision is mostly out of our hands, and I don't think it had to be. We're in an unenviable position of having to basically showcase him to the rest of the league to prove to him that we want to keep him.

[winforlose]

Unless we're willing to significantly overpay him, it may be out of our hands.

1. Define overpay?

2. Don’t forget bird rights. Sign and trade preserves them. Otherwise they start all over.

3. It is a long time till June.

1. Significantly more than another team offers if he wants to leave.

2. Bird Rights are obviously the only way we could keep him.

3. It is.

My point isn't that he's gone, just that the decision is mostly out of our hands, and I don't think it had to be. We're in an unenviable position of having to basically showcase him to the rest of the league to prove to him that we want to keep him.

Every game he risks tearing his ACL, Achilles, ect… Not only would he not have an income next year, but he would take a hit on the following deal (maybe a prove it deal.) On top of all of that he wouldn’t have the Timberwolves staff and money behind his rehab. Make no mistake, this is a huge risk Nowell, Dlo, and Naz are taking.

[Klomp]

Read on Twitter

[TwolvesFanRome]

He is looking amazing. I love the way he finds buckets...great step up by Jaylen! Hope to see him in Twolves jersey next years...

[winforlose]

What about 1 year 15 or 2 years, 30 million, with a player option his second year. That way he gets job security next year and we can renegotiate shortly thereafter. A torn ACL in February and he might lose all of next years income plus be stuck in a prove it the following year dirt cheap. Huge risk for someone playing increasing minutes. Especially when he hasn’t yet made a big bag.