The Official Jaden McDaniels Thread

[Klomp]

If Jaden is smart, he's using the Brooks and Hart contracts as leverage in contract negotiations.

[Klomp]

The big question now is whether Towns adjust to use his skills at PF. He has been elite beating slower bigs attacking off the catch, or punishing any big in drop scheme shooting threes. But it is still an open question how he will score when a mobile, athletic forward gives him no room to breath.

There are plenty of examples of this, they just don't fit into the negative narratives for many people.

[minimus]

The big question now is whether Towns adjust to use his skills at PF. He has been elite beating slower bigs attacking off the catch, or punishing any big in drop scheme shooting threes. But it is still an open question how he will score when a mobile, athletic forward gives him no room to breath.

There are plenty of examples of this, they just don't fit into the negative narratives for many people.

We can see how Embiid and Jokic have developed their game: they are multidimensional scorers now. When we speak about MVP level bigman, I see following components as must-have:

- postup (+ passing out of double teams)
- faceup game
- ability to be effective as PnR, PnP target
- ability to draw fouls

For a modern big wing I see following components as must-have (see MPJ as example of big shooting wing):

- catch and shoot
- run in transition / fill wings
- slashing game / attack closeouts
- beat opponents off the dribble

I agree, Towns has shown plenty of examples of being an elite scorer, however my question is how he can adopt his game playing next to Gobert? Last season opponents took away his catch and shoot 3pt game by defending him with guards, also he struggled with postups (turnovers and fouls). I hope he is somewhere in the middle of transition to be a really effective PF.

I dont like negative narratives about Towns as well, but lets be honest, for many reasons his transition to PF has not been smooth. And to be clear it is not critique of Towns, but a fair concern about whole twin towers concept in concrete situation. Below is an example of what I am talking about. Many of us (including me) were excited to see Towns feeding Gobert, but how many times we saw something similar to French connection on video? It is "simple" skip pass AND an alleyoop pass. Two excellent passes in row. It is not a rocket science. It can be done even on FIBA level, with less spacing and talent.

I thought this was a great observation

Read on Twitter

[thinktank]

The big question now is whether Towns adjust to use his skills at PF. He has been elite beating slower bigs attacking off the catch, or punishing any big in drop scheme shooting threes. But it is still an open question how he will score when a mobile, athletic forward gives him no room to breath.

There are plenty of examples of this, they just don't fit into the negative narratives for many people.

"Plenty of examples" is just lip service with no qualification. I'll give you some qualification that you can take to the bank, at least looking back at our season last year:

The fact is, we were the #1 ranked defense with Gobert + Towns and the #30 ranked offense with Gobert + Towns.

That tells you that the "narrative for many people" is valid, is the consensus, for metric reasons--Towns was not as effective at PF as he is as the lone big at C.

Read that again: We were the 30th ranked offense with Towns at PF and Gobert at C. That is not good, no matter how you slice it.

You can argue against that reality, but I think it's akin to banging your head against the wall. Things could change in the future. But until they do, this is the current dynamic with Gobert + Towns (great on D, putrid on O).

[Klomp]

The big question now is whether Towns adjust to use his skills at PF. He has been elite beating slower bigs attacking off the catch, or punishing any big in drop scheme shooting threes. But it is still an open question how he will score when a mobile, athletic forward gives him no room to breath.

There are plenty of examples of this, they just don't fit into the negative narratives for many people.

"Plenty of examples" is just lip service with no qualification. I'll give you some qualification that you can take to the bank, at least looking back at our season last year:

The fact is, we were the #1 ranked defense with Gobert + Towns and the #30 ranked offense with Gobert + Towns.

That tells you that the "narrative for many people" is valid, is the consensus, for metric reasons--Towns was not as effective at PF as he is as the lone big at C.

Read that again: We were the 30th ranked offense with Towns at PF and Gobert at C. That is not good, no matter how you slice it.

You can argue against that reality, but I think it's akin to banging your head against the wall. Things could change in the future. But until they do, this is the current dynamic with Gobert + Towns (great on D, putrid on O).

You're absolutely right, we were horrible any time Towns was matched up against a smaller player. This game didn't happen, it's just a figment of my imagination since the numbers say there's absolutely no redeeming quality of the bigger lineup. Nothing good came of it. An absolutely putrid game on offense.

Watch on YouTube

[thinktank]

There are plenty of examples of this, they just don't fit into the negative narratives for many people.

"Plenty of examples" is just lip service with no qualification. I'll give you some qualification that you can take to the bank, at least looking back at our season last year:

The fact is, we were the #1 ranked defense with Gobert + Towns and the #30 ranked offense with Gobert + Towns.

That tells you that the "narrative for many people" is valid, is the consensus, for metric reasons--Towns was not as effective at PF as he is as the lone big at C.

Read that again: We were the 30th ranked offense with Towns at PF and Gobert at C. That is not good, no matter how you slice it.

You can argue against that reality, but I think it's akin to banging your head against the wall. Things could change in the future. But until they do, this is the current dynamic with Gobert + Towns (great on D, putrid on O).

You're absolutely right, we were horrible any time Towns was matched up against a smaller player. This game didn't happen, it's just a figment of my imagination since the numbers say there's absolutely no redeeming quality of the bigger lineup. Nothing good came of it. An absolutely putrid game on offense.

Watch on YouTube

You do a great job of completely missing my points. I listened to yours and communicated why I don’t think it’s a good point (cherry picking, which I refuted with a pretty powerful stat—#30 on offense). You ignored mine and continued cherry picking. I welcome dialogue, and I don’t appreciate your repeated cherry picking. Despite your cherry picked clip, we were still ranked LAST on offense when Towns played PF. Care to actually address my larger point? We use these things called stats so we don’t have to re-hash every game Towns played with Gobert using the eye test.

Heck, you could’ve said “Gobert and Towns just need more time together”. That would’ve at least been a decent counter argument to what I posted.

Instead you say “yeah Towns was bad against PFs in EVERY GAME”, as if that’s what I said. I didn’t. You’re arguing against something you imagined. SMH.

[KGdaBom]

There are plenty of examples of this, they just don't fit into the negative narratives for many people.

"Plenty of examples" is just lip service with no qualification. I'll give you some qualification that you can take to the bank, at least looking back at our season last year:

The fact is, we were the #1 ranked defense with Gobert + Towns and the #30 ranked offense with Gobert + Towns.

That tells you that the "narrative for many people" is valid, is the consensus, for metric reasons--Towns was not as effective at PF as he is as the lone big at C.

Read that again: We were the 30th ranked offense with Towns at PF and Gobert at C. That is not good, no matter how you slice it.

You can argue against that reality, but I think it's akin to banging your head against the wall. Things could change in the future. But until they do, this is the current dynamic with Gobert + Towns (great on D, putrid on O).

You're absolutely right, we were horrible any time Towns was matched up against a smaller player. This game didn't happen, it's just a figment of my imagination since the numbers say there's absolutely no redeeming quality of the bigger lineup. Nothing good came of it. An absolutely putrid game on offense.

Watch on YouTube

Weren't the Wolves supposed to be annihilated on defense because with Rudy and KAT we were going to be destroyed from the 3 point line due to small ball lineups.

[shrink]

You do a great job of completely missing my points. I listened to yours and communicated why I don’t think it’s a good point (cherry picking, which I refuted with a pretty powerful stat—#30 on offense). You ignored mine and continued cherry picking. I welcome dialogue, and I don’t appreciate your repeated cherry picking. Despite your cherry picked clip, we were still ranked LAST on offense when Towns played PF. Care to actually address my larger point? We use these things called stats so we don’t have to re-hash every game Towns played with Gobert using the eye test.

Heck, you could’ve said “Gobert and Towns just need more time together”. That would’ve at least been a decent counter argument to what I posted.

Instead you say “yeah Towns was bad against PFs in EVERY GAME”, as if that’s what I said. I didn’t. You’re arguing against something you imagined. SMH.

Whether a person wants to press the #1 point, or the #30 point, I am very skeptical of any Towns data.

Not only do we have a limited number of KAT games, that number is further limited by the fact that 21 of 29 games came at the start of the season. Rudy was beat up from international play, Towns was coming off freakin’ hospitalization, and they had no time together before the season.

Also, keep in mind that those 21 games, both DLo AND Ant badly struggled to feed Gobert, so again, to attribute the TEAM’S offensive results specifically to Towns is probably not appropriate as well.

For me, I want to see what happens this year.

[minimus]

You're absolutely right, we were horrible any time Towns was matched up against a smaller player. This game didn't happen, it's just a figment of my imagination since the numbers say there's absolutely no redeeming quality of the bigger lineup. Nothing good came of it. An absolutely putrid game on offense.

Watch on YouTube

I re-watched this game. Here are rotations:

1st
12:00 Karl-Anthony Towns and Gobert starts
6:58 Kyle Anderson enters the game for Rudy Gobert
3:05 Jordan McLaughlin enters the game for Karl-Anthony Towns

2nd
12:00 Karl-Anthony Towns and Gobert starts
9:09 Nickeil Alexander-Walker enters the game for Rudy Gobert
5:07 Rudy Gobert enters the game for Kyle Anderson 35 45
5:07 Mike Conley enters the game for Karl-Anthony Towns

3rd
12:00 Karl-Anthony Towns and Gobert starts
6:44 Taurean Prince enters the game for Rudy Gobert
3:07 Rudy Gobert enters the game for Karl-Anthony Towns

4th
12:00 Gobert starts
9:31 Karl-Anthony Towns enters the game for Anthony Edwards
5:11 Nickeil Alexander-Walker enters the game for Karl-Anthony Towns. Garbage time starts

Here is my reading:

- Finch tried to separate Gobert and Towns minutes with timely subs
- Towns played all minutes of backup bigman, because Reid was injured
- OKC is not good shooting team, PLUS their lack size. Their players are underdeveloped physically and talentwise. This combination is an ideal situation for our twin towers both in offense and defense. They cannot match Gobert, let alone Towns and Gobert. Or Gobert, Towns and MCD. They were simply not a good team at the time of this game

As I said before I still believe that Towns can be an elite stretch five or backup big in five-out. But we have Reid who is one of the best NBA 6th man scorers, Reid needs minutes. All late seasons games with Towns should be viewed also through this lens - Towns played Reid's minutes and role as backup bigman. We have multiple chemistry / fit things to resolve. There are reasons why twin towers might work well, and there reasons why it might not. And this should be clarified BEFORE financial issues with 2nd apron, salary hell, 2024 draft, Conley and Anderson contract expiration etc.

[thinktank]

You do a great job of completely missing my points. I listened to yours and communicated why I don’t think it’s a good point (cherry picking, which I refuted with a pretty powerful stat—#30 on offense). You ignored mine and continued cherry picking. I welcome dialogue, and I don’t appreciate your repeated cherry picking. Despite your cherry picked clip, we were still ranked LAST on offense when Towns played PF. Care to actually address my larger point? We use these things called stats so we don’t have to re-hash every game Towns played with Gobert using the eye test.

Heck, you could’ve said “Gobert and Towns just need more time together”. That would’ve at least been a decent counter argument to what I posted.

Instead you say “yeah Towns was bad against PFs in EVERY GAME”, as if that’s what I said. I didn’t. You’re arguing against something you imagined. SMH.

Whether a person wants to press the #1 point, or the #30 point, I am very skeptical of any Towns data.

Not only do we have a limited number of KAT games, that number is further limited by the fact that 21 of 29 games came at the start of the season. Rudy was beat up from international play, Towns was coming off freakin’ hospitalization, and they had no time together before the season.

Also, keep in mind that those 21 games, both DLo AND Ant badly struggled to feed Gobert, so again, to attribute the TEAM’S offensive results specifically to Towns is probably not appropriate as well.

For me, I want to see what happens this year.

I think all of those factors may matter also. I don’t think we’ll be last in offense with Gobert and Towns on the floor together this year. However, they have to be at least middle of the pack for us to win playoff series. This year is make or break for the Gobert / Towns pairing, for sure. Don’t you agree? We have to play a lot better on offense and the odds are against us, based on last year’s statistics.

[frankenwolf]

Holy cow, the KAT is bad for the Timberwolves dialogue is everywhere. I thought this was a Jayden McDaniels thread. . .

[Nick K]

The big question now is whether Towns adjust to use his skills at PF. He has been elite beating slower bigs attacking off the catch, or punishing any big in drop scheme shooting threes. But it is still an open question how he will score when a mobile, athletic forward gives him no room to breath.

There are plenty of examples of this, they just don't fit into the negative narratives for many people.

We can see how Embiid and Jokic have developed their game: they are multidimensional scorers now. When we speak about MVP level bigman, I see following components as must-have:

- postup (+ passing out of double teams)
- faceup game
- ability to be effective as PnR, PnP target
- ability to draw fouls

For a modern big wing I see following components as must-have (see MPJ as example of big shooting wing):

- catch and shoot
- run in transition / fill wings
- slashing game / attack closeouts
- beat opponents off the dribble

I agree, Towns has shown plenty of examples of being an elite scorer, however my question is how he can adopt his game playing next to Gobert? Last season opponents took away his catch and shoot 3pt game by defending him with guards, also he struggled with postups (turnovers and fouls). I hope he is somewhere in the middle of transition to be a really effective PF.

I dont like negative narratives about Towns as well, but lets be honest, for many reasons his transition to PF has not been smooth. And to be clear it is not critique of Towns, but a fair concern about whole twin towers concept in concrete situation. Below is an example of what I am talking about. Many of us (including me) were excited to see Towns feeding Gobert, but how many times we saw something similar to French connection on video? It is "simple" skip pass AND an alleyoop pass. Two excellent passes in row. It is not a rocket science. It can be done even on FIBA level, with less spacing and talent.

I thought this was a great observation

Read on Twitter

I see it a little different. Towns will be just fine at PF. A lot of the blame can be squarely put on the coaches scheme which didn't take into consideration Gobert's feeble offensive skills. The guy has hands of stone. Much like Roberto Duran and Jimmy Kleinsasser. They also turned Towns into a passer which he can do well but it takes away from all his other strengths and shows up in his numbers. It also made him more passive driving and shooting. He's an unselfish guy and team player.

Kat should drive, post up and shoot the 3 while being as aggressive as he can be. Same with Ant. Rudy should play his role of rebound, block shots, and dunk the ball on lobs above his head. That's it for Rudy.

Did the Bulls try to turn Dennis Rodman into an offensive star? No. He couldn't score in a bordello. But he could rebound like crazy.

Towns lacked aggressiveness due to scheme and his desire to be a team guy. That's on the coaches.

[Nick K]

The big question now is whether Towns adjust to use his skills at PF. He has been elite beating slower bigs attacking off the catch, or punishing any big in drop scheme shooting threes. But it is still an open question how he will score when a mobile, athletic forward gives him no room to breath.

There are plenty of examples of this, they just don't fit into the negative narratives for many people.

"Plenty of examples" is just lip service with no qualification. I'll give you some qualification that you can take to the bank, at least looking back at our season last year:

The fact is, we were the #1 ranked defense with Gobert + Towns and the #30 ranked offense with Gobert + Towns.

That tells you that the "narrative for many people" is valid, is the consensus, for metric reasons--Towns was not as effective at PF as he is as the lone big at C.

Read that again: We were the 30th ranked offense with Towns at PF and Gobert at C. That is not good, no matter how you slice it.

You can argue against that reality, but I think it's akin to banging your head against the wall. Things could change in the future. But until they do, this is the current dynamic with Gobert + Towns (great on D, putrid on O).

UGH. That's interesting. I didn't know that. I just look at the Denver playoff series where we played solid defense against Denver when Towns played 35 minutes a night. Kat wasn't full strength either.

Coaching schemes have a lot to do with it too. Obviously you can't expect Towns to guard faster smaller guys one on one on the perimeter. Jokic couldn't do that either.

[thinktank]

There are plenty of examples of this, they just don't fit into the negative narratives for many people.

"Plenty of examples" is just lip service with no qualification. I'll give you some qualification that you can take to the bank, at least looking back at our season last year:

The fact is, we were the #1 ranked defense with Gobert + Towns and the #30 ranked offense with Gobert + Towns.

That tells you that the "narrative for many people" is valid, is the consensus, for metric reasons--Towns was not as effective at PF as he is as the lone big at C.

Read that again: We were the 30th ranked offense with Towns at PF and Gobert at C. That is not good, no matter how you slice it.

You can argue against that reality, but I think it's akin to banging your head against the wall. Things could change in the future. But until they do, this is the current dynamic with Gobert + Towns (great on D, putrid on O).

UGH. That's interesting. I didn't know that. I just look at the Denver playoff series where we played solid defense against Denver when Towns played 35 minutes a night. Kat wasn't full strength either.

Coaching schemes have a lot to do with it too. Obviously you can't expect Towns to guard faster smaller guys one on one on the perimeter. Jokic couldn't do that either.

Yep. Still weaknesses, but every defense has some.

Essentially, defense is not the problem.

[shrink]

Coaching schemes have a lot to do with it too. Obviously you can't expect Towns to guard faster smaller guys one on one on the perimeter. Jokic couldn't do that either.

There’s an interesting parallel here. Four years ago, Jokic was probably worse than Towns on defense. His coaches also realized his importance offensively, so to reduce fouls (and his much worse athleticism) they also played him in drop coverage. Still bad. Finally the coach asked him what defensive system he wanted to play, and he said he wanted to be out from under the basket. Now, I won’t say Jokic is a great defender, but outside he can use his brains, and it motivates him to play harder.

The same is true of Towns. KAT always hated playing drop coverage, and he was bad at it because he always wanted to step out and stop opponents barreling towards the rim (MIN never had good perimeter defenders). When KAT stepped out, it wrecked team defense, and smart opponents made another pass to a player darting towards the unprotected rim. When Finch switched from drop coverage to high wall, Towns did better than I expected. Like Jokic, Towns didn’t become a great defender, but playing a defense he liked motivated him.

To be honest, I am not all that concerned about Towns’ defense next year. With so many other good defenders on the team, how good does he really have to be? He plays next to Jaden, we brought in a ton of players that fight through picks, and even SloMo and Conley are good help defenders. Jaden, Ant, and the young additions are all likely to be even better. On top of this, the team is going to get to practice together, and was playing better defense at the end of the season (and with better personnel for it, like NAW). Our players, including Towns, need to gamble on getting out to stop three pointers - if the opponent fakes and drives, they still have Rudy Gobert between them and the rim.

[BlacJacMac]

Coaching schemes have a lot to do with it too. Obviously you can't expect Towns to guard faster smaller guys one on one on the perimeter. Jokic couldn't do that either.

And by not playing Jokic alongside another Center, they don't ever ask him to.

[KGdaBom]

Coaching schemes have a lot to do with it too. Obviously you can't expect Towns to guard faster smaller guys one on one on the perimeter. Jokic couldn't do that either.

There’s an interesting parallel here. Four years ago, Jokic was probably worse than Towns on defense. His coaches also realized his importance offensively, so to reduce fouls (and his much worse athleticism) they also played him in drop coverage. Still bad. Finally the coach asked him what defensive system he wanted to play, and he said he wanted to be out from under the basket. Now, I won’t say Jokic is a great defender, but outside he can use his brains, and it motivates him to play harder.

The same is true of Towns. KAT always hated playing drop coverage, and he was bad at it because he always wanted to step out and stop opponents barreling towards the rim (MIN never had good perimeter defenders). When KAT stepped out, it wrecked team defense, and smart opponents made another pass to a player darting towards the unprotected rim. When Finch switched from drop coverage to high wall, Towns did better than I expected. Like Jokic, Towns didn’t become a great defender, but playing a defense he liked motivated him.

To be honest, I am not all that concerned about Towns’ defense next year. With so many other good defenders on the team, how good does he really have to be? He plays next to Jaden, we brought in a ton of players that fight through picks, and even SloMo and Conley are good help defenders. Jaden, Ant, and the young additions are all likely to be even better. On top of this, the team is going to get to practice together, and was playing better defense at the end of the season (and with better personnel for it, like NAW). Our players, including Towns, need to gamble on getting out to stop three pointers - if the opponent fakes and drives, they still have Rudy Gobert between them and the rim.

We have a very good team and I'm expecting big things this year.

[minimus]

Watch on YouTube

[Klomp]

I know hometown fans tend to be homerish, but it feels like such a slap in the face to read how some other RealGM posters feel about Jaden McDaniels. Only reason that somewhat makes sense to be a possible explanation is that people see how we similarly hyped up Jarred Vanderbilt's defense, and seeing him on other teams makes them think McDaniels would similarly fall out of rotations. But that's a pretty dumb line to draw in my book...

[younggunsmn]

2 months left to extend him, have heard nothing but crickets about it all summer.
Is Jaden going to turn down the money and bet on himself?
I expect it to go down to the wire.